|
Source: (consider it)
|
Thread: Iakobos = Jacob? or James?
|
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
The Vulgate appears to use 'Iacob' for Jacob in the OT, and 'Iacobus' for James in the NT with the Latin reflecting the Greek in the NT and the Hebrew in the OT. But the Vulgate may be influenced by the Septuagint which also renders the name Ιακωβ whereas the Greek NT uses Ιακωβος so it looks as if the differentiation of the names goes back that far.
James comes from Jacob via the Latin Iacobus with a dialect version Iacomus. This - which is what I thought I already knew - is the tale from Wikipedia
Posts: 2322 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
|
Posted
In French it is Jacques, which has always sounded closer to me (although in the OT it is still Jacob).
--------------------
"Is she smooth or what? I mean, we are talking FRICTIONLESS BEARINGS here. If the beer here were that smooth, I'd be in the bar ALL DAY, dude, and I'm an AI construct, man!" - Demosthenes 0.9, brought to you by Eliab
Posts: 2450 | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
Yes, it looks as if French elides the 'omu'/'obu' part of the Latin, whereas English elides the 'co' part. We need an expert in diachronic phonology to take this further, methinks.
Posts: 2322 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
cross eyed bear
Shipmate
# 13977
|
Posted
The NT German is Jakobus (for what I've always called the books of James) I must look up whether Jacob of the OT is translated at Jakob or Jakobus.
--------------------
"One false step in my direction, you'd better believe in the resurrection" Stillgoe & Skellern's "Mrs Beamish"
Posts: 105 | From: Southern Germany | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
cross eyed bear
Shipmate
# 13977
|
Posted
I've just checked: Jacob of the OT is translated Jakob in German. However, Jakobus in the NT seemsto be part of a NT trend, we have Lukas, Petrus, Paulus, Timotheus, Saulus, Markus, Johannes and Matthäus, to name a few. As I have no knowledge of the biblical languages, I'm looking forward to hearing some theories from the experts on board!
--------------------
"One false step in my direction, you'd better believe in the resurrection" Stillgoe & Skellern's "Mrs Beamish"
Posts: 105 | From: Southern Germany | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
|
Posted
quote:
Originally posted by BroJames:
Yes, it looks as if French elides the 'omu'/'obu' part of the Latin, whereas English elides the 'co' part. We need an expert in diachronic phonology to take this further, methinks.
Can you explain what you mean here? The "co" is not elided in "jacob" the OT guy, why is it in "jacobus" the NT guy? And that still doesn't explain where the "m" comes from?
--------------------
Leontius, Hypatius, & Theodulus; and Osanna of Mantua
-- Saints of the Day (18 June) on The Onion Dome
Toffifay Is Too Good for Kids: a short short story
Posts: 53378 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001
| IP: Logged
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
I was just thinking about how English goes from the Latin Iacobus/Iacomus to James essentially by dropping the 'co' and going to Ia...bus/Ia...mus (for this purpose I am treating the bus/mus endings as phonologically similar variants), and French goes to Jacques essentially be dropping the 'obu/omu' and going to Iac...s.
My post was responding to la vie en rouge.
She notes that French, like English treats the NT version of the name differently from Jacob in the OT.
I think (as per my earlier post) that the differentiation in the names goes back to the Greek versions of the scriptures. I've not seen a convincing account of the reason for it.
Posts: 2322 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
Unjust Stuart
Shipmate
# 13953
|
Posted
I've recently been looking at a Greek passport which gives the client's name as "Themos". He says this translates into English as James.
Is this the common modern-Greek version of James?
[ 19. January 2011, 15:15: Message edited by: Unjust Stuart ]
--------------------
Forty years long was I grieved with this generation and said.
Posts: 281 | From: Hendon. Finchley. Around there. | Registered: Jul 2008
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
|
Posted
Sorry - over-explanation. In my defence, I didn't pay attention to the timing of the posts, and felt mine could have been read as a follow-up to my earlier post with a cross-post in between.
Incidentally, my suspicion about the 'm' in Iacomus, is that it just comes from the phonological closeness of the 'm' and 'b' sounds.
Posts: 2322 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Printer-friendly view
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
