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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: What did the hebrews call their bible?
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peter damian
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# 18584
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Posted
I am trying to find the Hebrew equivalent of ‘the scriptures’, in the sense of ‘Hebrew Bible’, but not finding it. The New Testament frequently refers to them (Gr. γραφαῖς). Perhaps this is not surprising – a book rarely refers to itself, although the Quran does this quite a lot, so why would the Hebrew Bible refer to itself? On the other hand, the Torah refers to itself (Deuteronomy 28:58 ‘If you do not diligently observe all the words of this law that are written in this book’). Moreover, if the Hebrew Bible were written in sequence according to the chronology of the events it describes, i.e. was written in installments, then you might expect to find such a references. There are many references to the Torah (e.g. Joshua 8:31 and passim). There is also an odd reference (2 Kings 22) to the book of the law being ‘found’.
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I'm finding a lot of "written in the book of the Law", "The book of God's law", and "the Law of Moses." I haven't found any references yet to the writings of the prophets, the Psalms, etc. except of the sort "And Jeremiah wrote down" and "the prophet said". And of course in the history books there are frequent references to the chronicles of this or that, the book of the wars of the Lord, and so forth. I'm not finding anything where someone refers to the entire OT by one name, but that is maybe not surprising when they were still in the middle of it being written. And to further confuse the issue, it can happen that people refer to a whole body of work by naming the foremost division of that work, which in this case would always be the "Law" or "Moses." Even if they were actually referring to a lesser work lumped together with it, like Joshua or Judges.
Still, I would tend to take the NT witness as reliable for what Jewish people called the Scriptures in those days. The writers of the NT are, after all, almost wholly Jewish, and they have no reason to invent a name for the Scriptures that is not already in use. And for them, the New Testament was barely in the process of being written--so when they refer to "what is written" or "the scriptures", they are most likely echoing general Jewish usage.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
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HCH
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# 14313
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Posted
A digression: I think the passage in Second Kings about finding the book of the law, apparently gathering dust in the basement, is one of the most touching scenes in all of scripture. Finally there was a good king, after so many bad ones. He may have been too little and too late, but he did what he could.
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
The closest I think you will come to how the Hebrews would have referred to the OT at the time would be "The Law and the Prophets" A third category would also be "The Writings" which would have included the wisdom literature of today's Old Testament plus other writings.
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
Apart from Torah, I don't thik that Jews had a collection of books approximating what we call the Bible. There were the writings of the prophets, the psalms, the histories but no other sacred collection.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Golden Key
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# 1468
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Posted
Had a college class from a rabbi. He said that the Torah is the first five books, is all Jewish scriptures, is the Talmud, is *everything*. Don't know if that view was around in ancient times. But I'm guessing that Jewish mystics had it.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
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Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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peter damian
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# 18584
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
[..] A third category would also be "The Writings" which would have included the wisdom literature of today's Old Testament plus other writings.
Where does the term 'the writings' occur in the Hebrew Bible? I agree it is in the NT.
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
Peter
No, there is no specific reference to the Writings --or the Ketuvim--in what we Christians know as the Old Testament. But it does appear in rabbinic literature.
A short article from wikipedia explains what is included in the Writings .
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
Apart from Torah, I don't thik that Jews had a collection of books approximating what we call the Bible. There were the writings of the prophets, the psalms, the histories but no other sacred collection.
Possibly a digression from me here, but I always found it interesting that in the parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus, Abraham is given the phrase "Moses and the Prophets" to refer to what we might call "Scripture"--If there was a single term for the writings, I would have expected it to be there.
Although, for sheer dramatic effect, it is tough to beat "if they will not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead."
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
The specific name for the Hebrew Scriptures is the Tanakh. It includes the Torah, the books of law, the prophets and the writings. Some Hebrew scholars will refer to the whole scripture as Torah, without making the above distinctions.
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
AIUI, Tanakh was not fixed until around 300 AD - curiousy close to Conatantine's conversion but obviously a co-incidence. For years, I've understood it neither Tanakh or Torah uses the definite article.
Anyone else have any thoughts on either of these?
[ 15. February 2017, 05:50: Message edited by: Gee D ]
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
Thank you, Gee, for that correction. My English Grammarity always wants to add definite articles to proper nouns.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Gee D
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# 13815
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Posted
I have no Hebrew, but have never heard reference to anything other than just plain Torah with no article. Whether Hebrew, much as Latin has no articles, I don't know - perhaps it is specific to Torah and perhaps Tanakh.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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peter damian
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# 18584
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Posted
Well 'Tanakh' is a transliteration into the roman alphabet, and we are referring to it in English. Nearly all the English references use the definite article.
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Nick Tamen
Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164
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Posted
Right, which is why I doubt you'd ever find "the Hebrew equivalent of ‘the scriptures’, in the sense of ‘Hebrew Bible,'" at least until the modern Tanakh. The Hebrew Scriptures* are a collection of writings that weren't thought of as a unitary thing.
* It may be worth remembering that "Scripture" is a Latin-derived word that at root simply means "writing."
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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott
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Gramps49
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# 16378
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Posted
Well, technically, even the New Testament is not considered a unitary thing either. They are all books, or writings, even scriptures.
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