homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | Register | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Heaven   » Extinct Sect love (Page 1)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Extinct Sect love
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
This is a very random thought - but which religious sect do you like that no longer exists? It must be like the parrot.

I rather like the Glasites and am quite sad that they no longer exist. Also whatever that sect was called which met in pub rooms and refused to tell anyone what they believed.

--------------------
my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

Posts: 7725 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

 - Posted      Profile for Sandemaniac   Email Sandemaniac   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It probably won't surprise anyone who knows the Glasite's alternative name to hear that I have a soft spot for them too. I nearly joined the Ship as Kail Kirk, but thought people might think I was Dundonian.

AG

--------------------
"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3487 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I've remembered the other sect, it was the Muggletonians, of course. They were awesome.

--------------------
my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

Posts: 7725 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The followers of Joanna Southcott, and their later appearance as 'The New And Latter House Of Israel', founded by James Jershom Jezreel.

They flourished briefly in this area, and I have a couple of publications of theirs(including 'Extracts from The Flying Roll'), which, TBH, are almost unreadable.

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7088 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
BF will know that I just acquired a book about the Agapemones -- one of the many truly creative sects that popped up during the reign of Victoria.
Was it something about the times, or her example, or what? Somehow a large number of people in different parts of the world all decided to leap off the sexual rails, waving the flag of Christ as they did so. (Surely nothing says 'Run away! Now!' so clearly as a cult leader announcing that Jesus told him to have sex with you.)
I have at least three separate historical examples -- in addition to the Agapemones there are the Mormons and the Oneida people -- and I am sure there are more.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer

Posts: 4235 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

 - Posted      Profile for Amanda B. Reckondwythe     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The Oneida Community sounds like it could have been fun. Free love, no sin -- who could ask for more?

And anyone who wrote a book denouncing marriage called The Battle-Axe couldn't have been all bad.

--------------------
"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

Posts: 9713 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The Agapemonites were the ones immediately suggested to me by the OP, but the above-mentioned J. J. Jezreel was also reputed to have had sex with under-age girls, as well as whipping, disciplining, and imprisoning them. Indeed, he married a 15-year old local lass ('Queen Esther'), and she succeeded him briefly as leader of the sect before her own premature death in 1888. The sect continued into the late 20th C - the publications I referred to date from the 1970s - and may well still have a shadowy half-life today.

I wonder if Brenda is right - the oppressive 'official' Victorian sexual morality may well have caused many people to break free, as it were, using religiosity as a cover-up and/or excuse.

Some of the odder sects, like the 'Joannas', the Plumstead Peculiars, or Walworth Jumpers, were doubtless decent, if misguided, people. The same could be said, of course, of some of today's marginal Christian or pseudo-Christian groups!

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7088 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Oops - a slip of the finger...but the Lord Has Revealed To Me In A Dream That I Must Correct My Error.

'Queen Esther' (J. J. Jezreel's wife) was actually 25 when they married, though she had known him since she was 15, being part of the group of Southcottians he took over in 1875, when it was revealed to him that he was the Messenger Of The Lord. She died at the age of 28.

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7088 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Siegfried
Ship's ferret
# 29

 - Posted      Profile for Siegfried   Author's homepage   Email Siegfried   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Was going to say the Shakers, but Wikipedia tells me that 2 still remain--a man, 58, and woman, 77.

--------------------
Siegfried
Life is just a bowl of cherries!

Posts: 5581 | From: Tallahassee, FL USA | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Thanks for all these sect names to look up, good job.

--------------------
my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

Posts: 7725 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

 - Posted      Profile for Twilight     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well let's say the Shakers, anyway, Siegfried! Started by a woman, beautiful minimalists design, way ahead of it's time, an attempt at perfection which I always admire from afar. About 40 years ago, I was so obsessed with them I had my library order every book about them in the entire state. Then I went to Kentucky and visited one of their beautiful (no people left) communities and didn't want to leave. Love them.
Posts: 6445 | From: Ohio | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618

 - Posted      Profile for betjemaniac     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I like the Sandemanians, but as a descendant of Ramshorn Primitive Methodists who were actually from Ramshorn - now there's a claim to fame - can I have Primitive Methodists?

If I wasn't CofE I could quite happily be a methodist.

--------------------
And is it true? For if it is....

Posts: 1153 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The Jacksonites

(Scroll down a bit for the beginning of an article about them.)

I remember that article from my home province in the 1980s. There was a picture of a JW girl solemnly holding up her copy of Thriller. How long they lasted, I do not know, though I don't think they underwent much membership growth.

Also, possible, I suppose, that they were just pretending to believe that, in order to get themselves in the news(and it would be hard for a reporter to tell the difference). I suspect they would have been disfellowshipped pretty quickly in either case.

--------------------
I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

Posts: 5922 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well the only reason for stipulating that the sect be dead was to avoid offending anyone who might currently identify themselves as belonging to them.

Primitive Methodists are quite interesting - they were a very big movement around here in South Wales. I'm not sure they are altogether dead, are they?

--------------------
my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

Posts: 7725 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618

 - Posted      Profile for betjemaniac     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
I like the Sandemanians, but as a descendant of Ramshorn Primitive Methodists who were actually from Ramshorn - now there's a claim to fame - can I have Primitive Methodists?

If I wasn't CofE I could quite happily be a methodist.

For the sake of clarity I'm not calling Methodism a sect btw!

--------------------
And is it true? For if it is....

Posts: 1153 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged
betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618

 - Posted      Profile for betjemaniac     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I'm not sure they are altogether dead, are they?

Well officially of course they united with the Wesleyans in the 1930s. I'm sure there are some surviving dissenting dissenters but I'm not sure I'd include them - any more than I regard the Liberal Party and the SDP as anything other than dead in practical terms despite the fact that technically both still exist!

The Primitives were influential in S Wales yes, but their heartland was between the Trent, Dove and Churnet rivers. Chapel for the agricultural poor really.

--------------------
And is it true? For if it is....

Posts: 1153 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013  |  IP: Logged
Al Eluia

Inquisitor
# 864

 - Posted      Profile for Al Eluia   Email Al Eluia   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
According to Wikipedia this group still has three surviving members so it's not quite extinct, but I like the House of David just because they had a touring baseball team.

House of David baseball team

--------------------
An omer is a tenth of an ephah. (Exodus 16:36)

Posts: 1101 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Due to American tax law there is a powerful incentive to create your own religion. You, as the founder and prophet, become its minister, your house becomes the manse or church and thus exempt from taxes, your followers get to deduct the money they give to you as a charitable deduction, and so on. The grand example of this is L. Ron Hubbard and the Scientologists, but there are many many others. There are even web pages telling you how to go about it. Some of these are dimly and distantly related to Christianity and some of them decidedly are not.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer

Posts: 4235 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Pangolin Guerre
Shipmate
# 18686

 - Posted      Profile for Pangolin Guerre   Email Pangolin Guerre   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
Well let's say the Shakers, anyway, Siegfried! Started by a woman, beautiful minimalists design, way ahead of it's time, an attempt at perfection which I always admire from afar. About 40 years ago, I was so obsessed with them I had my library order every book about them in the entire state. Then I went to Kentucky and visited one of their beautiful (no people left) communities and didn't want to leave. Love them.

Not only started by a woman - Ann Lee, Mother Ann ("Hands to labour, hearts to God") - but having a number of prominent women, Jane Wardley, Lucy Wright, etc., and the Eldresses who, sadly (in my opinion), closed the Covenant around 1957(?), dooming the sect to extinction.

Remarkable sect, and Christendom is the less for their eventual disappearance. I do wonder whether, after the last two go unto the valley of love and delight, someone might start the Second United Society of Believers in Christ's Second Appearing. Second... second.... perhaps not Shakers but the Two-squareds?

Posts: 199 | From: 30 arpents de neige | Registered: Nov 2016  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

 - Posted      Profile for Gee D     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
According to Wikipedia this group still has three surviving members so it's not quite extinct, but I like the House of David just because they had a touring baseball team.

House of David baseball team

There used be a House of DAvid community about 10 km from where we live and even closer to Mr Curly. They ran a small shopping development on a main road, and from memory a service (US gas) station and some tennis courts. That has all been replaced by a MacDonalds and a few other shops along with a large nursery which includes a pleasant cafe. No longer any connection with the original group AFAIK.

No surprise that the Shakers are disappearing - it's hard to build a church continuing into the future where all true believers are required to abstain from sex.

[ 27. February 2017, 19:47: Message edited by: Gee D ]

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

Posts: 5918 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356

 - Posted      Profile for Albertus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
I like the Sandemanians...

not to mention the Cockburnians, the Dowites, and the Fonsecistas

--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.

Posts: 6246 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

 - Posted      Profile for Moo   Email Moo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
No surprise that the Shakers are disappearing - it's hard to build a church continuing into the future where all true believers are required to abstain from sex.

The Shakers maintained their numbers for a long time by taking in orphaned and abandoned children. I assume that modern child welfare laws put a stop to this.

Moo

--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.

Posts: 19812 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

 - Posted      Profile for Sandemaniac   Email Sandemaniac   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Albertus:
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
I like the Sandemanians...

not to mention the Cockburnians, the Dowites, and the Fonsecistas
[Killing me]

AG

--------------------
"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

Posts: 3487 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

 - Posted      Profile for Gee D     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
No surprise that the Shakers are disappearing - it's hard to build a church continuing into the future where all true believers are required to abstain from sex.

The Shakers maintained their numbers for a long time by taking in orphaned and abandoned children. I assume that modern child welfare laws put a stop to this.

Moo

Probably right in both aspects of your post.

I came across this: The House of David operated for many years on Lane Cove Road, and included a general store, picnic grounds, tennis courts, a miniature train ride, and a small zoo, later adding a VW car dealership to the complex. on the Wikipedia entry for the suburb. That certainly accords with my recollection. General store here means a shop selling a range of groceries, the equivalent to a modern 7/11 shop or small supermarket.

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

Posts: 5918 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
You guys are so great. Somehow I had thought there were eight, maybe ten nutty sects in the period out there. Noooo! You reveal to me that there a dozens, hundreds! Human beings are almost infinitely creative, and how God puts up with us I do not know!
For maximal fun I think my fictional sect is going to be -both- polygamous and free love. As they say in the song, "We may see murder yet!"

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer

Posts: 4235 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Huia
Shipmate
# 3473

 - Posted      Profile for Huia   Email Huia   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Brenda, I'm not casting aspersions on your creativity, but in my opinion you would be hard pressed to invent anything weirder than the various sects that have existed over time .

As part of my B.A many years ago I did a course where we studied the Sociology of Religion. One of the required essays involved inventing a religious sect, outlining their teachings and stating what groups of people would be attracted to them. I think it was one of the Professor's favourite assignments to read.

Huia

[ 28. February 2017, 03:18: Message edited by: Huia ]

--------------------
Charity gives food from the table, Justice gives a place at the table.

Posts: 9531 | From: Te Wai Pounamu | Registered: Oct 2002  |  IP: Logged
North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

 - Posted      Profile for North East Quine   Email North East Quine   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Some of the Buchanites, founded in 1783 by Elspet "Lucky" Buchan, shaved their hair around the hairline, leaving a ponytail on the top of their heads. This was to make it easier for angels to grab their hair and pull them up into Heaven when they were raptured.

At one point Mother Buchan instigated a forty day fast for her followers although she herself continued to eat "lest her body should become so transparent that her followers would not be able to behold the brightness of her countenance."

Before she died she told her followers that she would return either six days, or ten years, or fifty years after her death. As a result they kept her body in a special room for the next fifty five years, covering it every day with a freshly heated flannel.

The last Buchanite died in 1846.

Posts: 6224 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
Lothlorien
Ship's Grandma
# 4927

 - Posted      Profile for Lothlorien   Email Lothlorien   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
According to Wikipedia this group still has three surviving members so it's not quite extinct, but I like the House of David just because they had a touring baseball team.

House of David baseball team

There used be a House of DAvid community about 10 km from where we live and even closer to Mr Curly. They ran a small shopping development on a main road, and from memory a service (US gas) station and some tennis courts. That has all been replaced by a MacDonalds and a few other shops along with a large nursery which includes a pleasant cafe. No longer any connection with the original group AFAIK.


My first teaching post was at high school near there . When we were younger, dad often drove that way to various destinations. No Google then but I remember wondering just who they represented.

--------------------
Buy a bale. Help our Aussie rural communities and farmers. Another great cause needing support The High Country Patrol.

Posts: 8718 | From: girt by sea | Registered: Aug 2003  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by North East Quine:
Some of the Buchanites, founded in 1783 by Elspet "Lucky" Buchan, shaved their hair around the hairline, leaving a ponytail on the top of their heads. This was to make it easier for angels to grab their hair and pull them up into Heaven when they were raptured.

At one point Mother Buchan instigated a forty day fast for her followers although she herself continued to eat "lest her body should become so transparent that her followers would not be able to behold the brightness of her countenance."

Before she died she told her followers that she would return either six days, or ten years, or fifty years after her death. As a result they kept her body in a special room for the next fifty five years, covering it every day with a freshly heated flannel.

The last Buchanite died in 1846.

I genuinely couldn't tell if you were making that up. Unless you also spun the same tale on wikipedia, you're not..

--------------------
my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

Posts: 7725 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
North East Quine

Curious beastie
# 13049

 - Posted      Profile for North East Quine   Email North East Quine   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
[Big Grin]

My source is D.P. Thomson's Women of the Scottish Church pp141-152 published in 1975. According to him, the Buchanites communal cooking pot was still being used as a garden feature when he visited the house in which her body had lain. However the owners of the house had built a bathroom extension over the former graveyard.

Apparently Mother Buchan encouraged new followers to throw their jewellry, watches etc onto a dust heap, from whence the items subsequently vanished.

[ 28. February 2017, 10:53: Message edited by: North East Quine ]

Posts: 6224 | From: North East Scotland | Registered: Oct 2007  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The Labour Church movement was founded in England in the late 19th c. to bridge the gap between left wing politics and Christianity for the working classes. It grew rapidly but also secularised rapidly, and fizzled out at the start of WWI.

As for the Shakers, people admire them mostly for their furniture, AFAICS. Furniture apart, their celibacy is severely out of favour now so it's hard know what they'd have to offer to the current age.

In fact, considering how licentious we incline to be as a species it's surprising that sexually liberated religions and sects haven't been more attractive in the long term. You'd wouldn't think people would still be arguing with strict groups such as the RCC and the evangelicals, etc. There's not much point in that.

Posts: 5916 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
Trudy Scrumptious

BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647

 - Posted      Profile for Trudy Scrumptious   Author's homepage   Email Trudy Scrumptious   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Due to American tax law there is a powerful incentive to create your own religion. You, as the founder and prophet, become its minister, your house becomes the manse or church and thus exempt from taxes, your followers get to deduct the money they give to you as a charitable deduction, and so on. The grand example of this is L. Ron Hubbard and the Scientologists, but there are many many others. There are even web pages telling you how to go about it. Some of these are dimly and distantly related to Christianity and some of them decidedly are not.

On that note, let's not forget
Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption!

--------------------
Books and things.

I lied. There are no things. Just books.

Posts: 7238 | From: Closer to Paris than I am to Vancouver | Registered: Mar 2004  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

 - Posted      Profile for Moo   Email Moo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
In fact, considering how licentious we incline to be as a species it's surprising that sexually liberated religions and sects haven't been more attractive in the long term.

The problem with free love communities is that they usually fall into squabbling and jealousy. People who think they are completely open-minded discover that they are outraged when someone they are attracted to prefers someone else.

Moo

--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.

Posts: 19812 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Trudy Scrumptious, thank you so much for that link to John Oliver.....

[Overused]

May Our Lady of Perpetual Exemption bless you!

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7088 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
In fact, considering how licentious we incline to be as a species it's surprising that sexually liberated religions and sects haven't been more attractive in the long term.

The problem with free love communities is that they usually fall into squabbling and jealousy. People who think they are completely open-minded discover that they are outraged when someone they are attracted to prefers someone else.
The Oneida community addressed this, campaigning all the time against 'stickiness' or 'selfish love'. You were supposed to bedhop without possessiveness; it was truly a group marriage. The other astonishing thing they did (which I would not credit, except that there is statistical proof) is birth control. Withdrawal was the doctrine; everybody male and female insisted this was perfectly satisfactory. And certainly the number of children born, compared to the number of sexually active people in the community, showed that it worked. The children of free-sex communities is the other major point of fail. In the day when you had to be legitimate to do many things this was an issue.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer

Posts: 4235 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Prester John
Shipmate
# 5502

 - Posted      Profile for Prester John   Email Prester John   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I'm not sure they are altogether dead, are they?

Well officially of course they united with the Wesleyans in the 1930s. I'm sure there are some surviving dissenting dissenters but I'm not sure I'd include them - any more than I regard the Liberal Party and the SDP as anything other than dead in practical terms despite the fact that technically both still exist!

The Primitives were influential in S Wales yes, but their heartland was between the Trent, Dove and Churnet rivers. Chapel for the agricultural poor really.

They are alive if not necessarily well in the U.S.. They are mostly found in central Pennslyvania where most of the Welsh immigrants to this country ended up.
Posts: 838 | From: SF Bay Area | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:


Primitive Methodists are quite interesting - they were a very big movement around here in South Wales. I'm not sure they are altogether dead, are they?

As you probably know, several of the British Methodists groups merged in the 1930s because they were losing members and also their theological and social distinctiveness. So ISTM that if any congregations deliberately remained outside the union (and survived) they were already so different from the norm that it might not be meaningful to see them as somehow representative of that earlier denomination.

The extent to which they might be seen as remnants on one hand or schismatics on the other probably depends on various factors. Nowadays, I'd guess that any independent congregation with distant Prim Meth (etc.) heritage is affiliated with an evangelical network, and chooses to emphasise its modernity rather than its history. 'Primitive Methodist' won't mean much in a contemporary setting, so a church is unlikely to emphasise it on its website, and it won't be present in the name of the church.

I'm thinking more of England though, not Wales or the USA.

[ 28. February 2017, 15:47: Message edited by: SvitlanaV2 ]

Posts: 5916 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
SusanDoris

Incurable Optimist
# 12618

 - Posted      Profile for SusanDoris   Author's homepage   Email SusanDoris   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Well, it is certainly amazing what one canlearn on this forum!!

[ 28. February 2017, 16:03: Message edited by: SusanDoris ]

--------------------
I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

Posts: 2792 | From: UK | Registered: May 2007  |  IP: Logged
Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38

 - Posted      Profile for Honest Ron Bacardi   Email Honest Ron Bacardi   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The followers of Joanna Southcott, and their later appearance as 'The New And Latter House Of Israel', founded by James Jershom Jezreel.

They flourished briefly in this area, and I have a couple of publications of theirs(including 'Extracts from The Flying Roll'), which, TBH, are almost unreadable.

IJ

In their time, they managed to erect a distinctly odd building (temple) "Jezreel's Tower" which survived incomplete until the mid 20th century.

There's a wikipedia page on this odd lot which is well worth a look, for lovers of obscure cults. Modestly entertaining too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jezreel's_tower

When I were a lad, I had to walk to school past a small terraced house which served as the meeting place of some small sect. According to the oversized notice board screwed on the front wall of the property, they called themselves "God's Peculiar People". I have no idea what they were about, and search engines don't seem to turn up anything of relevance.

[ 28. February 2017, 16:12: Message edited by: Honest Ron Bacardi ]

--------------------
Anglo-Cthulhic

Posts: 4681 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Diomedes
Shipmate
# 13482

 - Posted      Profile for Diomedes   Email Diomedes   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Honest Ron - I live in Prittlewell (Essex UK) where the Peculiar People had a presence worthy of the first hit on Google! Our erstwhile neighbours were members so they hadn't all died out 10 years ago. I'm not sure if their chapel is still in use, it's looking a bit unloved recently

--------------------
Distrust simple answers to complicated questions

Posts: 109 | From: Essex England | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The 'Peculiar People' still exist, but under another name....

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peculiar_People

They seem to have got themselves into trouble with the law at various times in the past by refusing medical help to their sick children (Davies mentions the case of Brother Hurry, in prison at the time of his visit to Plumstead), but otherwise appear to have been (and presumably still are) decent and godly people.

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7088 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

 - Posted      Profile for Baptist Trainfan   Email Baptist Trainfan   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The colleague who was a Peculiar said that, when he was a child, he had a pain in the appendix area.

His parents wouldn't call a Doctor, but called the church Elders. They turned up, all clad in black - he was terrified. But they prayed - and he was fine after that!!!

That would have been about 60 years ago. But I only heard the story today.

Posts: 8419 | From: East of Greenwich | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Honest Ron Bacardi
Shipmate
# 38

 - Posted      Profile for Honest Ron Bacardi   Email Honest Ron Bacardi   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Diomedes and Bishop's Finger - many thanks! You have filled a longstanding gap in my knowledge. I hadn't realised how local the Peculiar People were. As I think BF will know, my knowledge of all this relates to a childhood in N. Kent, though of course that is only just across the river from Essex.

--------------------
Anglo-Cthulhic

Posts: 4681 | From: the corridors of Pah! | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119

 - Posted      Profile for Kaplan Corday         Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I used to know someone who grew up in the PPs, and was very grateful as soon as he was old enough to be able to switch to the boring old Baptists.

David Bebbington, in IVP's A History Of Evangelicalism series, cites the Cokelers, or Society of Dependants, who believed in celibacy (hence their disappearance) and economic solidarity.

One of their hymns ran:

Christ's combination stores for me
Where I can be so well supplied
Where I can one with brethren be
Where competition is defied.

Posts: 2882 | Registered: Jan 2011  |  IP: Logged
Al Eluia

Inquisitor
# 864

 - Posted      Profile for Al Eluia   Email Al Eluia   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have a little bit of nostalgia for the Church of Jesus Christ at Armageddon, an old hippie sect that was based here in Seattle. They were more commonly known as the Love Family after their leader, who called himself Love Israel. All the members took the surname Israel and first names that were sometimes Biblical names but often expressed their personality or a virtue (Determination Israel, Logic Israel, Charity Israel, etc.). They were active when I was in college in the late 70s/early 80s and their commune was near our campus. A driver on the 13 bus route was in the habit of announcing the churches along his route; maybe this was his form of evangelism. When he'd get to the street they were at he'd announce, "McGraw Street--Church of Armageddon!"

--------------------
An omer is a tenth of an ephah. (Exodus 16:36)

Posts: 1101 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Kaplan Corday
Shipmate
# 16119

 - Posted      Profile for Kaplan Corday         Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
first names that were sometimes Biblical names but often expressed their personality or a virtue (Determination Israel, Logic Israel, Charity Israel, etc.).

They sound like Puritan first names such as Praise God, Kill Sin and Flee Fornication.
Posts: 2882 | Registered: Jan 2011  |  IP: Logged
Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356

 - Posted      Profile for Albertus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
And of course Macaulay's Obadiah-Bind-Their-Kings-In-Chains-And-Their-Nobles-With-Links-Of-Iron, Sergeant in Ireton’s Regiment

--------------------
My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.

Posts: 6246 | From: Y Sowth | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Al Eluia

Inquisitor
# 864

 - Posted      Profile for Al Eluia   Email Al Eluia   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by Al Eluia:
first names that were sometimes Biblical names but often expressed their personality or a virtue (Determination Israel, Logic Israel, Charity Israel, etc.).

They sound like Puritan first names such as Praise God, Kill Sin and Flee Fornication.
I once met Vortex Israel. And the member who designed their communal residence was named Ingenuity.

--------------------
An omer is a tenth of an ephah. (Exodus 16:36)

Posts: 1101 | From: Seattle | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think I mentioned earlier the followers of Joanna Southcott, and their successors 'The New and Latter House of Israel'. I now find that Joanna Southcott's famous 'Box' gave rise to what became 'The Panacea Society', at a slightly later period, but that this ceased to be a religious body in 2012. Here we are:

http://panaceatrust.org/history-of-the-panacea-society/

Their museum would seem to be a good reason for visiting Bedford!

In a similar way, I believe the Catholic Apostolic Church still exists in the form of Trustees, but not as a worshipping body. The Trustees, however, continue to maintain some of the Church's surviving buildings (Gordon Square, Albury, and - I hope - Maida Vale).

IJ

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7088 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
What a resource you are, BF. The Panacea Society, I am thrilled. Distributing squares of linen as cures, really! Any time I think I am imaginative, I am put to the blush by plain reality.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer

Posts: 4235 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
Check out Reform magazine
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
  ship of fools