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Source: (consider it) Thread: Pull To Open: Doctor Who 2017
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
It actually had a lot in common with the moon episode in many ways,

Truth. I also thought it shared a number of themes with "The Beast Below"--captive creature being tortured (chained up) for the benefit of those who chained it up, and the choice of releasing it and risking retribution. And, of course, in being an early adventure of a new companion and allowing that companion to show their moral worth.

I found it a decent episode, but not exactly classic. It may be better than I think, though, because, once again, I find myself struggling to understand a lot of the dialogue. I may very well be twisting what was actually said to fit what I WANT to be said! [Smile] . Besides my general collecting mania, one of the reasons I get the DVDs of the show is so that I can turn on the captioning and read what is being said.

We got a little more info about the Vault. Whatever is in there can knock. It is probably not Wilf, though.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Now hang on. Comparing Nardole to the verminous Binks is pistols at dawn stuff.

You have been warned.

Shall you choose the location or shall I.

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Sparrow
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# 2458

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:

3) The Doctor waits for Bill to give him instructions, because he's just there to protect humanity and she is human. Not a bad idea for a totally new character, but we've never seen any Doctor act like this. In fact we've never seen Capaldi's Doctor act like this, and my bet is his subservience will be completely forgotten after this.

I assumed he was testing her.

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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:

3) The Doctor waits for Bill to give him instructions, because he's just there to protect humanity and she is human. Not a bad idea for a totally new character, but we've never seen any Doctor act like this. In fact we've never seen Capaldi's Doctor act like this, and my bet is his subservience will be completely forgotten after this.

I assumed he was testing her.
A very charitable interpretation. You are a better person than I.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I also thought it shared a number of themes with "The Beast Below"

The one it reminded me of was the classic series episode The Power of Kroll. (Though this was better.)

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Finally watched "Thin Ice", and yeah, I don't think it was quite as good as the previous episodes... but I still quite liked it.

The exploration of ethics was effective. I liked this WAY better than the thematically similar moon episode, which tried to shoehorn too many ideas in at once. This had some slightly clunky moments but on the whole it was decently paced.

Also, I really liked the return to the university and another bit that referred to events in the previous episode. All that time that Nardole has spent making tea...

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ACK
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I thought 'Thin Ice' the weakest episode of the series so far. The multi-ethnicity of Victorian London started off good, then it began to feel like they were labouring the point: preachy rather than subtle.
And the 'I am not human, so you have to decide' jarred, reminding me of 'Kill the Moon'.
But it was an OK episode and I am liking Bill. Something I was not expecting from the trailers before the series started.

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Penny S
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Pity she's going with the changes at the end of the series.
And I am feeling far less drawn to throw things at anachronisms than I did with the last one. (There was a book out last year - "Black Georgians" which may have influenced the casting a bit.) No codices, horned helmets and electric eels and misdating highwaymen, and the rest of the clutter last time. I rather liked the period piece of kit for detonating the explosions.

[ 06. May 2017, 16:43: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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simontoad
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# 18096

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Penny, you should have a look at Lindybeige's review of The Last Kingdom on youtube. It's an hilarious critique of the historical accuracy of the TV show.

I'd link, but I'm a bit 'what's the pointish' about you-tube as so much of the stuff I want to link is geoblocked in other countries. I understand you can use some sort of pinwheel server tool to get around that, but it smacks of cheating to me. Please note that I am a hypocrite.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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If the alien bugs could release the recently captured students, why not those from previous generations?
(typo)

[ 07. May 2017, 13:16: Message edited by: balaam ]

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Jay-Emm
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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
If the alien bugs could release the recently captured students, why not those from previous generations?
(typo)

TV wise I think because we didn't see them, so they think we don't care. Also then they'd need screen time and sorting out.

Post-hoc justification, the others were properly digested, while the new ones weren't (though in that case would work better with them remaining in the walls like record guy, rather than clearly being broken up and reassembled).

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tessaB
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# 8533

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So who or whatever is in the vault plays the piano and likes Mexican food [Eek!]
Very exciting.

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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
If the alien bugs could release the recently captured students, why not those from previous generations?
(typo)

TV wise I think because we didn't see them, so they think we don't care. Also then they'd need screen time and sorting out.

Post-hoc justification, the others were properly digested, while the new ones weren't (though in that case would work better with them remaining in the walls like record guy, rather than clearly being broken up and reassembled).

It looked like the people were swallowed to provide life energy for the woman. The Doctor also twigged that this culling of young people occurs every 20 years. That would imply that, after a meal, the house coasts for about 20 years on the energy received before it needs to feed again--having burned up all the stolen energy. It would follow from that that only the recently received energy could be given back...the older stuff from 20, 40 and 60 years ago is long gone.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Have you heard the rumour about who is coming back by the end of the series? That's my guess for who is in the vault, now that we've heard the classical music being played (before that I thought it might be the Cybermen).

Enjoyed this episode, and definitely feel this series is working out well. Funnily enough I only began to like Smith as the Doctor in his last series too. Thought it was a bit of a cop out to get all the kids back at the end (had the previous occupants been dead for too long to be reanimated?) but can't really complain about a happy ending.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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ACK
Apprentice
# 16756

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I thought there were lots of unanswered questions at the end, not just why did only the last set of students return, but also things like where did these things from, what were they, why did the do what they did? Plus 6 students move into a house and disappear overnight - surely someone would report that to the police. Overtime wouldn't someone notice the pattern? I enjoyed it at the time, it had interesting ideas, but then thinking about it afterwards, it was rather a '... and then with a wave of her magic wand she made everything right?' type ending.
The vault is getting interesting. Missy in there maybe, or John Simm's Master? Counting the knocks last week, they came in 3s. Whatever is in the vault does not knock 4 times.

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Penny S
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# 14768

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Thank you for the comment, simontoad. I have not been able to watch "The Last Kingdom" yet, so that irritation remains to come.
I gather that Cornwell believes himself to be descended from Uhtred (he has an interesting life story.) I certainly have the impression that he takes getting things right seriously, so he may not like anachronistic representations.

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Gill H

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# 68

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quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
So who or whatever is in the vault plays the piano and likes Mexican food [Eek!]
Very exciting.

It's Sherlock's psycho sister. Moffat got bored.
[Razz]

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Gill H:
quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
So who or whatever is in the vault plays the piano and likes Mexican food [Eek!]
Very exciting.

It's Sherlock's psycho sister. Moffat got bored.
[Razz]

[Killing me]

Okay, so the obvious answer is Some-Form-Of-The-Master. But that falls into the Too Obvious category for me. So who else? We saw a photo of Susan in the first episode. And this episode Bill is passing the Doctor off as "Grandfather." And we have been promised a "face from the past" before the end of this series (although, for "Doctor Who," that could apply to damn near anybody). But the Thing in the Vault seemed to delight in the idea of young people being killed--which fits the Master but, again, Too Obvious. So, could it be a deranged Susan? A Susan who has, for some reason, become a menace? In other words, could it be Sherlock's sister?

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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I enjoyed this episode the least of this series but I did enjoy it. I think we are being directed to think it's Missy in the vault. I hope its Missy. I enjoy Missy. I like the woman who plays her. She is hilarious in The Green Wing.

I'm sure everyone except me can remember what The Doctor said to the Master as he lay dying on the deck of the flying aircraft carrier in the Martha Jones storyline. I wish I could. I have a strong feeling it might be relevant.

This last episode seemed like it was recycled. Wooden people, buildings that are really tiny flying things, slightly wrong caretakers... I just wish everything was a bit more fleshed out. I don't mind that everyone was rescued. I mean, I liked The Library. All they needed to say was that the creatures were flung from a passing meteorite and turned into a little boy. I would have been happy with that.

It reminds me of the series where the Doctor was in the role of the oncoming storm. I didn't like that series because there were all these massive concepts that just popped in and out of the story. Very little was explained, or even touched on.

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Penny S
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# 14768

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This last story seemed to draw a little on "The Magician's Nephew" as it got towards the end. The shot of the boy by his mother's bed looked very like a Pauline Diana Bayne's drawing of Diggoru beside his dying mother. Only this Diggory shared something with his Uncle Andrew in subordinating everyone else to his monomaniac purposes.
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Roseofsharon
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# 9657

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I just wish everything was a bit more fleshed out..

I have felt for some time that the episodes are too short and that too much is left for the viewers to make up for themselves.
All well and good if you are a Whovian with a good memory of back catalogue plots to draw on, but as someone with a short memory, who watches each episode as a stand-alone story (with a connecting story 'arc'), they all seem a bit insubstantial.

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Mr Clingford
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# 7961

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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Now hang on. Comparing Nardole to the verminous Binks is pistols at dawn stuff.

You have been warned.

Shall you choose the location or shall I.
I think we should let the TARDIS decide.

I still find Binks infinitely more annoying, though.

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If only.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
Now hang on. Comparing Nardole to the verminous Binks is pistols at dawn stuff.

You have been warned.

Shall you choose the location or shall I.
I think we should let the TARDIS decide.

I still find Binks infinitely more annoying, though.

I never said that I did not think that Jar Jar was not irritating to me, I said that he appealed to the kids. Jar Jar was meesa-understood. He was never intended to be the thing that adults respected. He was the comic relief, appealing to a different demographic.

As for Nardole, I have no idea which demographic he is supposed to appeal to; it isn't mine for sure. There is not the same need for comic relief in Who as there is with the po-faced Sith and Jedi of the Star Wars universe. The Doctor is more than capable of doing the comedy himself, especially with Capaldi in the role.

Nardole's role in the series may yet to be revealed, but so far it is a mystery. Someone who can deal with Daleks must be more than tea boy, surely.

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Nardole's role in the series may yet to be revealed, but so far it is a mystery. Someone who can deal with Daleks must be more than tea boy, surely.

Cue Marvin the Paranoid Android? [Razz]

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Just watched "Knock Knock".

Yeah, it was just... kind of there. I mean, there was a little bit of capacity for things going bump in the night, but nothing about the story was really very engaging or witty. Not terrible but I definitely felt it was the weakest episode of the season thus far.

Eliza looked impressive, though. I'll give them that.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Eliza looked impressive, though. I'll give them that.

Wooden acting.

I'll get me coat.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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A nice bit of tension in that one. There's nothing like a claustrophobic location or a time limit. It never fails to produce good Who.

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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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Who arranged it's timing?
Hacks. Extreme privatization of Health.

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Penny S
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Proper science fiction, that. The sort of thing I read in giant gulps from yellow Gollancz books in the 60s, tech in space and all the anti-corporation messages I missed at the time.
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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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The worst thing about "Oxygen" was that I'm too old to hide behind the sofa!

[ 13. May 2017, 21:10: Message edited by: Adeodatus ]

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guinness girl

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# 4391

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Agreed, Adeodatus. The moment when they saw the first body... I nearly yelped. Properly scary, especially for a family show! [Eek!]

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M.
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Good episode! I agree with guinness girl, real behind the sofa stuff.

I'm very much enjoying this series. It's always possible to pick holes, but it feels like Doctor Who, in a way It hasn't for a while. I was so thrilled when Peter Capaldi was named as the Doctor but haven't enjoyed his Doctor very much until this series. Perhaps I've just got used to him, just as he's going.

M.

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Gill H

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quote:
Originally posted by M.:
Good episode! I agree with guinness girl, real behind the sofa stuff.

I'm very much enjoying this series. It's always possible to pick holes, but it feels like Doctor Who, in a way It hasn't for a while. I was so thrilled when Peter Capaldi was named as the Doctor but haven't enjoyed his Doctor very much until this series. Perhaps I've just got used to him, just as he's going.

M.

I agree, and I think it's down to the writing (the writers have finally figured out who this Doctor is) and Bill being a better fit than Clara.

That episode was so Old Labour, I was fully expecting the mineral they were mining for to be called Corbynite...
[Biased]

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Ian Climacus

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# 944

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[Killing me] Gill H.

I too am finding Capaldi much more enjoyable this season, though there were highlights last season. And I like Bill more and more each episode; a great companion. I found Nardohl enjoyable too...out and about he isn't bad.

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Brilliant, Gill H. [Smile]

Yeah, super episode. On Whovians they showed space suits from the past, including one Peter Davidson number consisting of a helmet, an orange rope and a cricket ball for a propulsion mechanism.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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Enjoyed "Oxygen" a lot. A morality tale coupled with atmosphere (ha! pun) and tension and focus. I like it when a script feels focused. There were lots of things that just seemed like better iterations of the previous week. More effective scares, more plausible plot.

Nardole was improved as well.

As for the quality of the season... well, sorry, but I loved Season 8 and as much as I've enjoyed this season so far I don't think it's on the level of the best of that, nor do I think the performances around Capaldi are as good as the ones in that season. But it's enjoyable all the same.

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Roseofsharon
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# 9657

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:

Nardole was improved as well.
.

At last he seemed to have purpose, even though The Doctor wasn't taking much notice of his warnings.

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ACK
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# 16756

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I really enjoyed 'Oxygen'. A tight story, that seemed to show 'Knock Knock' how to do horror stories. But Jamie Mathieson, who wrote it, also wrote 'Mummy on the Orient Express', 'Flatline' and 'The Girl who died'.
The only thing that jarred was it seemed to extropolate from the events in the story to the assumption that all capitalists prioritise the bottom-line above all else. I am not sure even old-Labour made that claim.

I think Missy is the most likely option for the vault. Moffat is not always predictable. What the eye-patches (I-patches?) were was a good surprise, a good double-surprise when they turned against them, or triple-surprise when they turned against everyone.
But, before they revealed who River was, I predicted she was Amy's baby, the Doctor's wife and the girl in the space-suit. So sometimes he does the obvious.
OK, I made lots of other predictions about River that proved not to be true, including that Captain Jack had somehow turned into a woman.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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quote:
Originally posted by ACK:
The only thing that jarred was it seemed to extropolate from the events in the story to the assumption that all capitalists prioritise the bottom-line above all else. I am not sure even old-Labour made that claim.

'Oxygen' did make that claim about the company that ran the space station, but I missed the bit where it said all were as bad.

The conclusion was that once the company realised the consequences of their policy their policy, and everyone else's, was changed.

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Nardole was improved as well.

I'm not sure he exactly improved. He's been meant to be annoying. I think it's more that the writer found an adventure in which he could show off what Nardole is there for.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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simontoad's comment re: Marvin the Paranoid Android spring to mind on reading this.

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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Possible spoilers

.

.

.

Episode 1, pictures of Susan and River Song on the Doctors desk.

Episode 3, the Doctor says that he has been to the ice fair on the Thames before. In a previous series River Song sid that the Doctor took her to an ice fair and got Stevie Wonder to sing for them.

Episode 6 trailer, a TARDIS shaped notebook is glanced. There are only two of these, the Doctor's and River's. Even if it is the Doctor's notebook, it is still a link to Ms Song.

There are two recurring themes in the story ark (possibly more). Question: Is River Song in the vault?

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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additional

.

.


.


.

Nardole was originally from a River Song episode.

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Given the rumours floating around, I'm going for the first Doctor in the Vault. The Master, or Missy, are too obvious.

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
The Master, or Missy, are too obvious.

I can't see the First Doctor playing the piano like that.
Moffat has never been afraid of the obvious. The girl in the astronaut suit turned out to be the two most obvious answers at once.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Sorry - who was the girl in the astronaut suit? I find it difficult to remember details from Moffat's stories as they generally don't hang together.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Roseofsharon
Shipmate
# 9657

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Given the rumours floating around, I'm going for the first Doctor in the Vault. The Master, or Missy, are too obvious.

And Missy popping up in the trailer for next week doesn't necessarily means she's the one in the vault.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Nardole was improved as well.

I'm not sure he exactly improved. He's been meant to be annoying. I think it's more that the writer found an adventure in which he could show off what Nardole is there for.
But that's what I mean by improved. Annoying isn't a problem for me. Pointless/useless is a problem.

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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I don't think you're giving spoilers Balaam. River Song is a good guess, but why would she be in the vault? She never committed a crime, never spent time in prison... oh wait

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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This is really silly and I do not intend a prediction because it's utterly barmy - but I find a link popping up with Sherlock and his musical sister in jail!
I note that the Dr has been popping in without Nardole knowing.

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