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Source: (consider it) Thread: Pull To Open: Doctor Who 2017
simontoad
Shipmate
# 18096

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If you use Google Chrome you can block those annoying pop-ups.

Boom-tish.

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Penny S
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Actually, no, since it was an internal brain link - should have been clearer.
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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Given the rumours floating around, I'm going for the first Doctor in the Vault.

Nah. I'm going for the next Doctor in the Vault.

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ACK
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# 16756

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Who was the girl in the astronaut suit?
In the Impossible Astronaut, River, Amy and Rory see someone in a space suit kill the Doctor. Later on in the story they meet the Doctor from earlier in his timeline.
In a later story, they find someone in a space suit whom Amy shoots. They then discover she is a little girl. She survives and escapes the suit, River pointing out how strong she is to tear herself out of it.
At the end of the episode we see the little girl begin to regenerate.

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Rule 1: The Doctor Lies

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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I thought that might be the incident. But, in describing that farrago of nonsense, the last word I would have used is "obvious".

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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Since the piano-playing thing last week, there's now a small but vocal fraction of fandom who are rooting for it to be Liberace in the vault.

Now that's scary.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Hugal
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# 2734

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I think it will be the Master in the vault. We know he disappeared with the Time Lords in the knock four times episode, but after that we don't know anything about the male master and when he regenerated into Missy. As Missy was in the trailer for next weeks episode there would have to be some really wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff going on.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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OK - the Doctor meet the Matrix. Interesting.

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Penny S
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# 14768

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Half way through. Dan Brown?
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tessaB
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# 8533

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Did I miss the reason that Missy was due to be executed?

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tessaB
eating chocolate to the glory of God
Holiday cottage near Rye

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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
OK - the Doctor meet the Matrix. Interesting.

Oh, that Matrix

Thought on the whole it was relatively sympathetic to the organization. There were a few odd bits that could have been fixed easily (comments of age of document, no consideration of diabolical intervention). But no worse than the technological 'whats!'

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Bene Gesserit
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# 14718

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I think this was the best episode of the series so far, and now we do know who is in the vault!

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
Did I miss the reason that Missy was due to be executed?

No. that wasn't made clear. Yet.

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The Rogue
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# 2275

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Surely The Master/Missy has been scheduled for execution half a hundred times. Another one is par for the course, even if this time the executioners understand a bit more about how to actually kill a Time Lord. And a bit less about their chosen executioner.

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If everyone starts thinking outside the box does outside the box come back inside?

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orfeo

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# 13878

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I found that very odd, and I didn't really like it.

I rewound and watched some of it again. And there was an early clue to what was going on... the problem being it was SO early that it wasn't helpful, in fact it feels as if it was deliberately designed to be forgotten by occurring before there was any useful reference point.

The other glaring problem is that the story only makes sense if some things have been happening EXACTLY, right up to the moment that Extremis starts.

[EDIT: Even bigger problem now that I think of it as I rewatch... how does the story even work whenever the Doctor isn't present?]

And what the heck happened to the Cardinal anyway? Why get rid of him?

[ 21. May 2017, 12:12: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by tessaB:
Did I miss the reason that Missy was due to be executed?

No reason was given. But she's the Master. We may presume that she tried to implement an overelaborate plan to take over the universe and it blew up in her face not before a lot of people died. (See: almost every appearance of the Master ever.)

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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ACK
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# 16756

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If we never learn what crime someone sentenced Missy to be executed for, does it matter? This is Missy, there is hardly a shortage of reasons.

Nardole turns up with a book which had been left in the Library. If he has been to the Library to get it, then he is badass.
But then the Doctor trusts him:
1) With the sonic screwdriver to keep Darleks off his back.
2) To make him keep his promise.
3) To make tea.
4) With the fact he is blind.
The Doctor tells him to walk ahead of Bill to protect her in case someone starts shooting at them and he does so.
River Song trusts him to look after the Doctor.

One thing I have difficulty swallowing with Extremis is the claim that everyone will react the same to something.
Admittedly the last translator does something different first - then reacts the same as everyone else and the Doctor does something completely differently.

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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by ACK:
If we never learn what crime someone sentenced Missy to be executed for, does it matter? This is Missy, there is hardly a shortage of reasons.
...
One thing I have difficulty swallowing with Extremis is the claim that everyone will react the same to something.
Admittedly the last translator does something different first - then reacts the same as everyone else and the Doctor does something completely differently. [/QB]

It would be nice to have a reason, even (especially), if it's a noodle incident.

That's where I'd expect clerics to be even more skeptical and immune than the scientists. They already have the built in claims of an outside.

I could see a non-insignificant subset of scientists getting angsty,
But even then they have considered the possibility that there's only one electron (and even the non religious ones, have heard of religions).
The pseudo-scientific 'rationalistic atheists' did get in a confusion with a hypothetical computer that puts you in hell.

Though, having said it's unrealistic, it could, ironically make sense as part of a simulation. The simulated world without Einstein might be a bit different, but less so than him being a Simulationist (or a divide by zero error or whatever). So as a crude bug suppressant it may make sense (especially given the lousy quality of their rng generator).

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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So let me get this straight. Alien invaders create a computer simulation to practice invading. And, within this simulation, there is a document called Veritas, that can be translated and reveal that everything is a simulation.

Why would the alien invaders have bothered to put such an item into the simulation? What benefit would it provide their invasion? Or are we to believe that somebody within the simulation, some time after it started, figured out it was a simulation and prepared Veritas...so that a bunch of religious types could then translate it and send it to scientists types? Because that seemed like a reasonable approach to take??? [Confused] [Confused] [Confused]

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:

Or are we to believe that somebody within the simulation, some time after it started, figured out it was a simulation and prepared Veritas...so that a bunch of religious types could then translate it and send it to scientists types? Because that seemed like a reasonable approach to take??? [Confused] [Confused] [Confused]

I'm assuming it was written to keep things aware, rather than as part of a definite plan (but we might find out otherwise).
But that and the fact that despite having virtual hardware, it doesn't have a virtual network.

I suspect with setting up the date the simulated half of the story is going to be repeated, but different.

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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And a little completely unwarranted speculation: So the monks in the simulation tended to open their mouths and words came out without the mouth actually moving to form them.

Creepy.

And interesting. That was a trademark of the original Mondasian Cybermen... who are slated to appear later this season. Interesting. Coincidence or connection?

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Am I the only Shipmate who was deeply confused by last night's episode? Even after watching it twice?

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
Am I the only Shipmate who was deeply confused by last night's episode? Even after watching it twice?

Depends on the confusion.

If big picture confused, I think probably a minority, and probably overthinking it.

There were two plots that were more or less independent (trying to avoid spoilers).

One, in flash back "the dr is committed to deal with the master and ... ... ..." he learns something about himself that relates to plot 2.

Two "the pope asks the dr to help with an ancient unbearable secret. He finds it out. 'Aliens are planning to invade and to prepare they have ... ... ...' . The ... Dr can't ..., but he can ... ... ... "
Coda, at the end the two threads are about to come together in the replay.

If confused about the consequences and connections, definitely not.

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Athrawes
Ship's parrot
# 9594

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I really enjoyed this episode, but want to watch it again before commenting further, except to say I loved the Pope's "It's bigger on the inside!" moment - in Italian!

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Explaining why is going to need a moment, since along the way we must take in the Ancient Greeks, the study of birds, witchcraft, 19thC Vaudeville and the history of baseball. Michael Quinion.

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simontoad
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# 18096

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24, 837, 82, 54, 9

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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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Simon - I just evinced that trait the Doctor loves about our species.... I started looking for a pattern. And then I remembered the reference in the episode. Well done.
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Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Well, I enjoyed that. And I've even started enjoying Nardole, so I must be going soft. All that stuff about the Doctor being President of Earth I remember vaguely; can anyone remind me where it happened?

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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It was the Cyberman story with the rain turning corpses into Cybermen and with Clara and her dead boyfriend Cyberman. Kate Lethbridge Stewart explains that everybody agreed that, in the case of alien invasion, if the Doctor shows up, he is automatically In Charge. Or something like that.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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orfeo

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# 13878

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Hmm.

Having not enjoyed last week, I think I was predisposed to be picky with this one. And I did indeed find things in the earlier stages to be a bit picky about. Things that felt tonally odd.

And yet, and yet... it all came together by the end. I mean, on some level the whole "consent" bit makes no sense whatsoever, but it certainly worked as an emotional punch, and I'm now very intrigued to find out next week just what the hell happened.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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simontoad
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# 18096

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[Big Grin] to Pangolin, and also for the Pyramid episode. Personally I prefer the enclosed stories to the world-ravaging, open, no-explanation ones, but this is still lots of fun. It looks like Bill's role as the one who chooses marked her out as an Edward in the Time Continuum, thus sparking the Doctor's interest. I guess that's why she had to choose in the creature in the Thames episode. It's all clicking into place.

The Next Doctor: I want a woman. I'm sorry that Alex Kingston won't be able to do it. My spur-of-the-moment shortlist:

1. Tamsin Greig from (inter alia) Black Books

2. Anna Chancellor (Duckface in four weddings and a funeral, Miss Bingley in BBC's Pride and Prejudice and many others)

3. Miranda Richardson (Rita Skeeter in Harry Potter, Good Queen Bess in Blackadder)

4. Meera Syal (The Kumars and the female reseacher whose drill disturbs the lizards)

If there must for some stupid reason be a bloke as the Doctor, I suppose I'd be OK with Ade Edmonson but I'd like to see what Hugh Laurie could do with the role.

[ 28. May 2017, 12:40: Message edited by: simontoad ]

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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simontoad
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# 18096

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Ok, I just read Alexi Sayle's Wikkipedia Page where it says that he appeared in Dr Who in 1985 and wants to be the first true Socialist Dr Who.

I want that dream to become a reality. Alexi Sayle, one of the funniest men alive, for the role of Dr Who.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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So this weeks episode I struggled with, because I struggled with a biochemical research lab where they did not take full precautions as a matter of habit and necessity.

And the idea that such a lab would vent their waste to the air, without first purifying it, seems ridiculous.

The issue of consent was interesting. And very pertinent, I thought. Consent is needed, and that is willing, openly given consent. The consent of power. I found that an interesting idea.

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Adeodatus
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Having been blown away by the last two, I found this week's episode a bit low-key, if only by comparison. Having said that, I think the tension in the story was very nicely handled, and it was good that we got a dramatic pay-off for the Doctor's blindness - I don't think they could have kept that going much longer.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
1. Tamsin Greig from (inter alia) Black Books

Oh, yes, I like that idea.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
1. Tamsin Greig from (inter alia) Black Books

Oh, yes, I like that idea.
Acceptable consolation for not getting Olivia Colman.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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simontoad
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# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
So this weeks episode I struggled with, because I struggled with a biochemical research lab where they did not take full precautions as a matter of habit and necessity.

And the idea that such a lab would vent their waste to the air, without first purifying it, seems ridiculous.

The issue of consent was interesting. And very pertinent, I thought. Consent is needed, and that is willing, openly given consent. The consent of power. I found that an interesting idea.

Yeah. Plus the stupid mechanism to open the door. It's like they had to try really hard to design something that a blind person couldn't use.

Olivia Coleman! Yes!

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Jay-Emm
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# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
So this weeks episode I struggled with, because I struggled with a biochemical research lab where they did not take full precautions as a matter of habit and necessity.

I can imagine a bit*, (particularly if they had given an 'it ought to be inert' explanation of what they are doing at the start). But it was a bit too much, even for visual media. When they do the book (and can have another shift, a bit of miscommunication), it will come out ok.

*especially given Chernobyl and Birmingham's Smallpox clearly mistakes can happen. But there's mistakes and not even trying.

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ACK
Apprentice
# 16756

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Not sure what I think about Pyramid ...
But the question of who should be the next Doctor. Hmm.
I discovered the value of a female Doctor when I realised my daughter only ever identifies with females, which took me rather my surprise, since I grew up easily identifying with male characters - often more than with female characters, since in the fantasy and Sci Fi books I read as a kid, the males tended to be the best characters.
I think its got to be either a mature woman or a comedy/character actor, not 'eye-candy', or not someone who is just eye-candy. Capaldi has apparently suggested Frances de la Tour. Helena Bonham Carter, Eva Green, Juliet Stevenson, Claudia Black could be good. I think Tamsin Greig though is my favourite.
If we get a male, I have recently been working my way through 'House' and thinking Hugh Laurie would make a brilliant Doctor.
Ade Edmondson would be interesting.
It would be really great if Rowin Atkinson returned to the role.
Interesting thing about those three is while they can all do the comic side of things, they also can do the darker side of the Doctor.

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Sparrow
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# 2458

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I was assured by a real fanboy a while ago that Kris Marshall was in the running. I think he would be good.

As for a female ... I would like Jemma Redgrave who currently plays Kate Stewart. Suppose ... Kate dies heroically saving the earth at the same time as the Doctor regenerates. He/she takes her form in honour of her.

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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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Damn you, Simontoad! I was thinking Alexi Sayle and then I scrolled down and saw that you'd stolen the march on me. Your female choices are great, but my vote goes to Tamsin Grieg (failing a Trotskyite Doctor.... or would that be Comrade Who?).

Now I can't get the image out of my head now, of Sayle as the Doctor, in a pub, with giant lizards.

Posts: 412 | From: 30 arpents de neige | Registered: Nov 2016  |  IP: Logged
Robert Armin

All licens'd fool
# 182

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Kris Marshall is supposed to be such a dead cert that the bookies have stopped taking money on him.

However, I was with a group of Whovians yesterday and someone wondered why nothing official had been announced yet. The best answer was that Marshall had the part, but the BBC were now worried by negative fan reaction. Certainly none of us liked the idea, but we are all grumpy old farts.

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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by ACK:
It would be really great if Rowin Atkinson returned to the role.

I only saw that special on YouTube a few weeks ago. It was rather good. Great cast!

And I'm always happy to see Julia Sawalha anywhere.

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Robert Armin:
The best answer was that Marshall had the part, but the BBC were now worried by negative fan reaction. Certainly none of us liked the idea, but we are all grumpy old farts.

It's a bad sign when the actor has an extensive CV but the only role I can place is a minor part in Love Actually.
I find it unlikely. Based on Broadchurch I can't see Chibnall casting someone there. I believe they've also suspended betting on Phoebe Waller-Bridge.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Gill H

Shipmate
# 68

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Ok, I just read Alexi Sayle's Wikkipedia Page where it says that he appeared in Dr Who in 1985 and wants to be the first true Socialist Dr Who.

I want that dream to become a reality. Alexi Sayle, one of the funniest men alive, for the role of Dr Who.

Eccleston beat him to it!

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simontoad
Shipmate
# 18096

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He really does look like Benito Mussolini [Yipee]

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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simontoad
Shipmate
# 18096

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I like Kris Marshall, but I'm not sure I'm ready for another silly doctor. Kris made that show, Our Family. It wasn't the same without him.

I'm attracted to Rowan Atkinson, and I'd like to see him in the role but I'm not sure he is allowed to play the Doctor twice. Isn't there a law somewhere? He is an actor with tremendous range, he blew me away as Maigret.

Helena Bonham Carter is an excellent suggestion, as is Julia Sawalha. Those two are huge stars, as is Hugh Lawrie these days. Are they too big for Dr Who?

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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Well interesting. Don't tolerate fascists who want to rewrite history. Cool.

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My books for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458

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I don't believe Missy's apparent contrition for an instant. Fake tears and all.

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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Sparrow:
I don't believe Missy's apparent contrition for an instant. Fake tears and all.

No, but I'll take as much Missy on screen as we can possibly get. Really, Michelle Gomez lit up the screen in this episode, and her scenes were by far the best in my opinion.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
No, but I'll take as much Missy on screen as we can possibly get. Really, Michelle Gomez lit up the screen in this episode, and her scenes were by far the best in my opinion.

Mackie and Gomez were really doing their best to make pretty poor material shine.
There were points where Capaldi had clearly just given up.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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