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Source: (consider it) Thread: Trinitarian Theology for Creative People
Brenda Clough
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I searched in vain for an existing topic to post this in, but in the end decided to start a new one. Because this is just great.
Using a famous piece of art to demonstrate the Persons of the Holy Trinity.
So, oh you people with letters after your name -- how solid is this? Do we have here an entry point into a greater understanding of the relationship of the Father with the Son? Does it comport with Orthodox theology?

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Stetson
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Ah, that's a bit of a stretch, not least because, taking the parallel to its logical conclusion, we would have to conclude that the Spirit, at least, is created by the Father.

I think it would work better as a metaphor for "God creating man in his own image", rather than for the Trinity.

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Baptist Trainfan
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Two other thoughts.

1. In this representation, the Father is a living, three-dimensional sentient being; the Son and the Spirit are only two-dimensional images.

2. Does God really smoke a pipe? Some theologians might think so.

[ 04. August 2017, 15:04: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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Bishops Finger
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Only true representation of Trinity in artwork is by Rublev!

http://www.wellsprings.org.uk/rublevs_icon/rublev.htm

All other attempts IS OUTRAGE!

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Baptist Trainfan
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Now, now ....
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Schroedinger's cat

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I do have letters after my name. I think that if this image helps you to understand the trinity - the three presentations of the one, the triple nature of the divinity - then it is fine.

The main thing is to remember that any image or description is limited, and only a part of the story. Along with all the other stories. Anyone who thinks this - or any other image - is the whole story is misled. If you can use an image to stretch and further your understanding then do so.

Personally, it doesn't do anything much for me. It shows more the nature of drawing, of how a representation is not the real thing, however good.

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Huia
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I liked the Bing Crosby comment as I was wracking my memory about which famous person I was reminded of.

Huia

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Gracious rebel

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We had a visiting preacher the other week who used a fidget spinner to illustrate the Trinity - when its used, the three parts are seen as one.....

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Bishops Finger
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Fidget Spinner? Is yet again Outrage!

Seriously, the whole concept of the Trinity is so mind-bending (IMHO) that anything which helps to explain it - in however small or even trivial a way - deserves attention.

I rather concur with Stetson's remarks about the picture linked to in Brenda's OP, though.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Baptist Trainfan
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quote:
Originally posted by Gracious rebel:
We had a visiting preacher the other week who used a fidget spinner to illustrate the Trinity - when its used, the three parts are seen as one.....

Now that's a new one on me! And it's dynamic, rather than static.

[ 05. August 2017, 13:13: Message edited by: Baptist Trainfan ]

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wabale
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My wife’s Christian Studies course recently featured a session discussing an Orthodox picture depicting the Trinity. The group was asked to identify the three persons of the Trinity. As the artist’s intention was being revealed my missus offered an alternative explanation, based on the hands of the three figures - namely Stone, Scissors and Paper!
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venbede
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In that image, the Son and Spirit both relate to the Father, rather than each other.

So I take it the basis of the Trinitarian theology here is Eastern - the Spirit is proceeding solely from the Father not the Father and the Son.

We ought to have a board to discuss theology and one to discuss prayer in addition to the boards about scripture and liturgy.

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Brenda Clough
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This is the question that taxed me when I was looking for the right place to start this thread. I suggest however that, in the cause of not multiplying entities, you just add 'theology' to the guidelines of one of the other boards. Ecclesiantics or Kerygmania, perhaps.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Ah, that's a bit of a stretch, not least because, taking the parallel to its logical conclusion, we would have to conclude that the Spirit, at least, is created by the Father.

I think it would work better as a metaphor for "God creating man in his own image", rather than for the Trinity.

Yes.

As noted, all explanations of the Trinity rely on metaphor, and all metaphors fall short, so I tend to be pretty generous with any attempt as long as we acknowledge that. But this one doesn't seem especially helpful, since the Son and the Spirit only "look like" the Father, and in no way are formed of the "same (or even similar) substance".

I actually like the fidget spinner analogy better, although it's apt to be quickly dated.

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wild haggis
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What about a lava lamp. One blob to begin with, but occasionally another blob breaks away, does a perambulation, and then comes back to the main blob!

I think most illustrations are only glimpses.

The Rubilev icon: what is important is the colour of the robes, in orthodox iconography.

I like the spinner though!

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wild haggis

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Nick Tamen

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
As noted, all explanations of the Trinity rely on metaphor, and all metaphors fall short, so I tend to be pretty generous with any attempt as long as we acknowledge that. But this one doesn't seem especially helpful, since the Son and the Spirit only "look like" the Father, and in no way are formed of the "same (or even similar) substance".

Nor are the Son and Spirit even "living." One is only a reflection, and the other is a static picture.

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Lamb Chopped
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# 5528

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Somewhere in here I have to leave a note about Dorothy L. Sayers' The Mind of the Maker, which is precisely about Trinitarian theology in, with, and for creative people. Most of her examples come out of literature and play-writing, and the ones on trinitarian failures ("Scalene Trinities") are a perfect hoot.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Oooh! That's a book I always send people to, when they're looking for a creative way to analyze and understand -fiction-.

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