homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | Register | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Heaven   » Confess Your Unpopular Opinion (Page 3)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  ...  11  12  13 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: Confess Your Unpopular Opinion
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
The correct temperature of a cut of meat is whichever one you prefer. However, if cooked to medium or more, much of the flavour is gone.

Which is why "steak sauce" was invented. A well-prepared steak shouldn't need to have flavor enhancers, except salt and pepper. The flavor is in the meat.

--------------------
“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63202 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

 - Posted      Profile for Lyda*Rose   Email Lyda*Rose   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The wedding thread in Hell reminded me of how UnAmerican I am: I love me a Texas Manor fruitcake. It's rich, chewy, fruity, nutty, and doesn't have those disgusting bitter rinds, just candied pineapples and cherries and dried fruits. The company has been in business for years so someone else must like them, too. More for me says I.

--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

Posts: 21309 | From: CA | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

 - Posted      Profile for Rossweisse     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
...whereas I rejoiced to receive the order form for Assumption Abbey fruitcakes this very day. Yum.

--------------------
I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 14752 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

 - Posted      Profile for Gee D     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
And soccer is the name of the game here, despite strong attempts to take over the generic for the particular - probably trying to increase the status of what is amongst adults here very much a minority game.

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

Posts: 6771 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Dormouse

Glis glis – Ship's rodent
# 5954

 - Posted      Profile for Dormouse   Email Dormouse   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
[qb]


OK, now I'm going to throw Harry Potter into the ring. I read the first one, and I was even dragged along to the first film. Decent enough for kids, I'm sure, but I really don't get the fuss, and I haven't bothered with any more installments.

Oh YES! I worked this summer with a bunch of HP fans who almost had a fit when I said that I thought the books were boring and not very well-writtezn. I found the films (those that I saw) rather tedious too.
I do, however, like the HP books for the fact that they were (in my opinion anyway) the Enid Blyton of the day - in that they got children reading. I remember a boy in my class who was not a good reader, being absolutely determined to read the first HP when it came out. By the end ofthe book, he saw himself as "a reader"

--------------------
What are you doing for Lent?
40 days, 40 reflections, 40 acts of generosity. Join the #40acts challenge for #Lent and let's start a movement. www.40acts.org.uk

Posts: 2999 | From: 'twixt les Bois Noirs & Les Monts de la Madeleine | Registered: May 2004  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Yep, I'm with you. Never read Harry Potter, and from intermittent glimpses of the movies I don't think I ever will. Nor Game of Thrones, nor (ugh) Fifty Shades of Grey. I walk along untrodden ways, beside the (literary) Springs of Dove.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5820 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

 - Posted      Profile for Sioni Sais   Email Sioni Sais   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

Posts: 24053 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

 - Posted      Profile for Karl: Liberal Backslider   Author's homepage   Email Karl: Liberal Backslider   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

Only book over 300 pages I ever managed to get through.

--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17717 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

 - Posted      Profile for Karl: Liberal Backslider   Author's homepage   Email Karl: Liberal Backslider   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
I don't want "the best" if it makes me feel sick, which both the texture and taste of rare meat does. Besides, the sort of places I can afford to eat at I doubt are bothering with this sort of snobby bollocks.

It isn't "snobby bollocks". The correct temperature of a cut of meat is whichever one you prefer. However, if cooked to medium or more, much of the flavour is gone. Like drinking beer cold, the flavour profile is limited.
IME, new flavours develop. Ones I like better than the taste of raw meat. Texture's the other issue. The "snobby bollocks" is looking down on people and giving them the gristly pieces in the mistaken belief that we can't tell.

--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17717 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
ExclamationMark
Shipmate
# 14715

 - Posted      Profile for ExclamationMark   Email ExclamationMark   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

Ditto me but with C S Lewis
Posts: 3759 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged
georgiaboy
Shipmate
# 11294

 - Posted      Profile for georgiaboy   Email georgiaboy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Back to unpopular opinions...

Michael Jackson was utter shite.

Food should come on plates, not shovels, not in little shopping trolleys, on slates or hung up on a shopping line. "Deconstructed" food is pretentious bollocks; putting mashed potato on top of the meat is the whole point of a Shepherd's Pie.

Red wine goes better than white with chicken. In fact it goes better with anything because white wine is wee-wee.

Beer goes better with cheese than wine does.

Scrambled eggs and omelettes should never have any liquid egg remaining; they do not go "leathery" when this is ensured; they go "cooked and no longer disgusting".

This is a first! First ever post from Karl LB with which I've totally and enthusiastically agreed. Bravo!

--------------------
You can't retire from a calling.

Posts: 1656 | From: saint meinrad, IN | Registered: Apr 2006  |  IP: Logged
Paul.
Shipmate
# 37

 - Posted      Profile for Paul.   Author's homepage   Email Paul.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
A couple of SoF ones to start:

  • there's nothing inherently wrong with double-posting. If the "sin" is hogging the thread you can easily do that without consecutive posts.
  • Hell is not necessary it's just convenient.

A few Christian ones:

  • quiet contemplative worship is not inherently more spiritual. Certain personality types tend to prefer it but that's another matter.
  • speaking of which, liking "happy clappy" worship doesn't make you an extrovert.
  • God doesn't really care about ritual (but we do)
  • I don't understand the Trinity, except that it seems to be a doctrine designed to trip you up. If you ever actually try to put it in your own words you're almost certainly falling into one heresy or another. I've stopped pretending I understand why that's important so I've stopped caring.
  • Similarly there are lots of things, standard Christian beliefs, I neither believe nor disbelieve. I just don't know and in many cases (like the Trinity) don't actually think it is knowable.
  • adherence to religious rules isn't necessarily the way to live a good life. They can often either be irrelevant to being a good person or actively harmful.

Actually I could go on and on with those but I'll stop.

Finally some general ones:
  • sport is tedious
  • patriotism is pointless at best and potentially harmful at worst. Why I am supposed to feel more loyalty toward, kinship with people I don't know who happen to fall the right side of an arbitrary line on a map, probably drawn up hundreds of years ago, I really don't get.
  • Yes (Prime) Minister was a single joke - elected officials are craven and stupid, civil servants are wily and manipulate those ostensibly in charge to wield the real power themselves - repeated in many different forms. It's not a bad joke but after a while it stretches thin.
  • Michael McIntyre is not funny.
  • ebooks are better than paper books. Both have the purpose of being delivery mechanisms for words. ebooks are more efficient at this most of the time. Also, paper book fans often wax lyrical about the physicality - the smell, the feel, the weight in your hand etc - all perfectly good things to like if you happen to, but they're all attributes of books as objects. And if I'm admiring an object rather than getting absorbed in the story then it's actually getting in the way of what it's supposed to do.
  • raw tomato, lettuce, boiled egg, mayonaise - basically most forms of salad - are yucky.
  • Twitter is not only not pointless and inane etc, but can be a useful place for news and interesting debate.

Sorry that was probably too many. I kept trying to think of positive ones but mostly failed.

Posts: 3681 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Paul's comment on single-joke sitcoms prompts me to opine...

Married With Children was not particularly clever or even funny. It was basically just a bunch of Rodney Dangerfield-style jokes about family life, strung together in skit form, week after week for ten years. There was no depth or development to any of the characters, they were just delivery mechanisms for punch-lines.

(And for the record, yes, I think Rodney Dangerfield was funny, but there's a reason why stand-up comics aren't usually given weekly TV shows where they just tell jokes for half and hour.)

Posts: 6446 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
ExclamationMark--

quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

Ditto me but with C S Lewis
If I may ask: fiction, non-fiction, or both? (It's ok not to answer.)

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18173 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Sioni Sais--

quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

I had a hard time getting into the series, at the beginning. And all the battles. I preferred "The Silmarillion", which collects the myths and legends of that world.

When the movies came out, though, I found I remembered more of the main books than I thought. [Smile]

I do think that Tolkien's writing is sometimes too detailed, and thus overwhelming. Too much going on at once.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18173 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
M.
Ship's Spare Part
# 3291

 - Posted      Profile for M.   Email M.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
No, Tolkien is not 'overwhelming' , it's boring.

M.

Posts: 2265 | From: Lurking in Surrey | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

 - Posted      Profile for Karl: Liberal Backslider   Author's homepage   Email Karl: Liberal Backslider   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Tolkien relies on the reader having the right sort of imagination to build a mental image from his narrative. If you cannot see Lothlórien in the descriptions of Mallorns and Caras Galadhon, it will bore you.

[ 14. October 2017, 06:51: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17717 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

 - Posted      Profile for Jengie jon   Author's homepage   Email Jengie jon   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Cannot abide Lord of the Rings, books or films.

Ditto me but with C S Lewis
Firstly let me state my credentials. C.S. Lewis was the author who got me reading as a child. My book addiction is, therefore, his responsibility.

However, as I have read more and more widely I have developed cautions and critiques of Lewis. It is pretty easy to see why his writing would not appeal to everyone while still enjoying it myself.

In some ways, it is interesting to compare Lewis to Tolkien. Tolkien for me is a page turner, the only one comparable for me is J.K Rowling but there is more depth to Tolkien. His detail draws me in and onward. Lewis does not rely on description to the same extent, his description is often cursory and it, therefore, depends far more on the plot and you care about the characters.

Jengie

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

Posts: 20715 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76

 - Posted      Profile for Karl: Liberal Backslider   Author's homepage   Email Karl: Liberal Backslider   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The theological writings I find increasingly irrelevant to where I personally am. The fiction - well, the kids' stuff is fine up to a point, but I've always thought the Out of the silent planet trilogy a bit weird, and That Hideous Strength just tries far too hard. Not that I'm opposed to weird; I rather liked Vonnegurt's Sirens of Titan, which out-weirds Lewis by a country mile, but somehow it's not good weird.

Like Tolkien, I dislike allegory. I often wonder how the Tolkien/Lewis friendship coped with Tolkien's stated dislike and the allegorical nature of much of Lewis' writing.

--------------------
Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17717 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967

 - Posted      Profile for SvitlanaV2   Email SvitlanaV2   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Unfortunately, I only read the first Narnia story as an adult and, like Harry Potter, it just seems to be a book for kids. By contrast, I've read one of C. S. Lewis's adult books and it seemed quite interesting. Maybe not much use to those with more theological knowledge.

Talking of theology, I must admit that I'm not really drawn to much of it. A lot of the stuff I've heard of seems so abstract and irrelevant to the lives of ordinary Christians. OTOH I've enjoyed reading black British and urban theology because it's about lived experience, things I recognise from my environment. But in general I'd rather read about the sociology of religion than theology.

Posts: 6473 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Absolutely no interest in Dickens. I think it is low grade puff.

I'd much rather read Dostoevsky or Cervantes. I'd love to be able to read Russian, Spanish (ancient Greek, Danish etc) to get the full effect.

--------------------
arse

Posts: 10325 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I love Tolkien, the imagination and depth is an inspiration. Lewis less deep in his fiction, but his theological works are a great insight into thinking at the time (and yes, they are useful, but need updating).

As a writer, I think they are very challenging - to see how hard Tolkien worked shames me.

But no, not for everyone. I accept and understand that.

If you want an overrated author - James Joyce. And yes, I have read Finnegans wake and Ullyses. Drivel. And Proust - just get to the f*cking point.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18684 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Other unpopular opinions:

* Slavoj Žižek is a performance artist. The vagueness isn't a sign of brilliance or cleverness, it is all just an act.

* Julian Assange and wikileaks have always been part of a Russian misinformation campaign.

* We're not going to be able to stop runaway climate change. Too little has been done and we're too late.

* Fairtrade is basically bollocks

* Things are not going to be ok. Things are not ever going to be ok, and they're going to get a lot worse fairly soon.

--------------------
arse

Posts: 10325 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Moo

Ship's tough old bird
# 107

 - Posted      Profile for Moo   Email Moo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
Like Tolkien, I dislike allegory. I often wonder how the Tolkien/Lewis friendship coped with Tolkien's stated dislike and the allegorical nature of much of Lewis' writing.

Lewis specifically said that his Narnia books were not allegory, which involves a one-to-one correspondence between the specific elements of the allegory and the real-world situation depicted.

Lewis said the Narnia books are fantasies about what a land with talking animals and an all-powerful beneficent lion would be like.

Obviously the books are written from a Christian viewpoint.

Moo

--------------------
Kerygmania host
---------------------
See you later, alligator.

Posts: 20256 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It is not a duck. It is a feathered fantasy beast which quacks and waddles which was created by a duck enthusiast.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17101 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
George Lucas is a hack writer. He is a wannabe auteur with one great film, and no, it isn’t Star Wars. *
He is a credible director when he has constraints, but crap when he doesn’t.

*I love Star Wars, and it is a terrific franchise (minus the prequels) but they are not great films.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17101 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Also, SW is not SF. It's fantasy.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5820 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
John Holding

Coffee and Cognac
# 158

 - Posted      Profile for John Holding   Email John Holding   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Unfortunately, I only read the first Narnia story as an adult and, like Harry Potter, it just seems to be a book for kids.

Well, yeah. Why on earth would you expect either to be anything other than a book for kids?

John

Posts: 5915 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Also, SW is not SF. It's fantasy.

Sort of on this theme, Star Wars and Star Trek (after the first series) are not SF, they are fantasy, and fan fic.

If these are all you have read of SF, try something different.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18684 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
IME, new flavours develop.

charcoal, leather...
quote:
The "snobby bollocks" is looking down on people and giving them the gristly pieces in the mistaken belief that we can't tell.

Again, not snobby. A chef creates/cooks a dish to taste good. And this naturally is going to be what s/he thinks is good. Snobby might be the attitude of some, but then it might also be projection in some instances. As far as being served worse pieces of meat, I never encountered this when I did eat steak that was overcooked. I mean. "well"done. [Biased]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17101 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

 - Posted      Profile for Bishops Finger   Email Bishops Finger   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
To those of you who dislike Tolkien, Lewis, Hardy, and/or Rowling:

IS EXTREME OUTRAGE!!!

(Mousethief, My People will be in touch with Your People).

Three of the greatest writers of the 19th/20th/21st centuries....

You will have to answer to them in Heaven (yes, yes, I know JKR is very much alive - may she remain so for lustra to come).

IJ

--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9446 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Rowling is a lovely person, and as a writer she has done a lot for young peoples reading. And her books are generally pretty good, and often very clever.

One of the mose influential writers yes. The best, I am not so sure.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18684 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

 - Posted      Profile for L'organist   Author's homepage   Email L'organist   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
War and Peace is not a good book. The War is fine, the Peace so-so, and the And is mind-numbing tedium. You want to know the story, then watch the Bondarchuk film.

And the Hollywood film of W&P is utter shite, with Henry Fonda in particular giving a performance so wooden you could make a console table from it.

--------------------
Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

Posts: 4720 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Oh, sing it, L'org. Tolstoy spends pages and pages harping on the Battle of Borodino. But never do a battle do we see, only Russian people having angst about it. Boring! Some (IMO) deluded Broadway people decided to put W&P onto the stage as a musical. It's titled Natasha & Pierre & the Great Comet, and succeeds mainly by peeling out the one interesting story line in the entire volume. Perhaps 1/60th of the actual work makes it onto the stage.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5820 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Rossweisse

High Church Valkyrie
# 2349

 - Posted      Profile for Rossweisse     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Rowling spins a good tale, and her imagined world has the critical ingredients of consistency and interior logic. I enjoyed most of the books. But "Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix" is, at 870 (!) pages, at least 200 pages too long. It's redundant and dreary, and some of the action is just gratuitous. It is desperately in need of editing; I don't know if I could face that one again.

--------------------
I'm not dead yet.

Posts: 14752 | From: Valhalla | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
War and Peace is not a good book. The War is fine, the Peace so-so, and the And is mind-numbing tedium. You want to know the story, then watch the Bondarchuk film.


Ain't that the truth: started the bugger loads of times, never ever got past page 100.

If he hadn't also written Anna, I'd have no idea why people see to think that Leo is so marvellous.

--------------------
arse

Posts: 10325 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Rowling is a lovely person, and as a writer she has done a lot for young peoples reading. And her books are generally pretty good, and often very clever.

One of the mose influential writers yes. The best, I am not so sure.

Well no. Not one of the most influential writers. It is possible she might become so, but she isn’t yet.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17101 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
fwiw I thought that typo was probably meant to be "more". I think she's very likely very influential, although "most" is a hard thing to prove.

--------------------
arse

Posts: 10325 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

 - Posted      Profile for Schroedinger's cat   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Of course, War and Peace is really more of a philosophocal treatice than a story. The story is the exploration of the philosophy, because Tolstoy was a philosopher really (and an interesting one).

The BBC serialisations are good. But the book is incredibly hard going (and yes, I have read it. All through).

lilBuddha - I suppose it depends who you are looking at. For authors, she will become a major influence. But for readers, for culture, she is a huge influence.

--------------------
Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

Posts: 18684 | From: At the bottom of a deep dark well. | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Of course, War and Peace is really more of a philosophocal treatice than a story. The story is the exploration of the philosophy, because Tolstoy was a philosopher really (and an interesting one).

Oh yes, absolutely. And of course Dosteovsky is also a philosopher.

And that's the interesting thing. The great Russian novelists were philosophers. The two great British novelists we've discussed above (Tolkien and Lewis) were Oxford dons.

Dickens was a dick, Hardy stole his best stories from others, George Eliot mostly seems to have hidden away from the world for most of her life, the Brontes lived and died in obscurity.

I'm sure this says something about the British literary and national character.

--------------------
arse

Posts: 10325 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Her impact on the publishing field is huge. No more do the editors announce to us that children's books cannot be more than 100 pages long.
My niece was so enamored of the books that she, and two friends, have been re-enacting them. They film it on their cell phone cameras, in no particular order, and then she edits the takes together into a coherent film. Bosoms burgeon and shrink, braces come on and off, heights go up and down crazily'; all the characters are played by these three girls. But they did =all= the books, over a period of perhaps ten years -- the girls are now in their mid-20s and have just finished up. No other work I know has inspired this level of devotion.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5820 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

 - Posted      Profile for mr cheesy   Email mr cheesy   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Her impact on the publishing field is huge. No more do the editors announce to us that children's books cannot be more than 100 pages long.
My niece was so enamored of the books that she, and two friends, have been re-enacting them. They film it on their cell phone cameras, in no particular order, and then she edits the takes together into a coherent film. Bosoms burgeon and shrink, braces come on and off, heights go up and down crazily'; all the characters are played by these three girls. But they did =all= the books, over a period of perhaps ten years -- the girls are now in their mid-20s and have just finished up. No other work I know has inspired this level of devotion.

I've never read any of them, so I can't speak to the quality of the prose. However, I think there are many historical parallels with fanatical fans of fiction in the past.

And I think this might be a reason some dislike Rowling. They suspect that her fiction will not last, that it will be a flash in the pan and that the fanatical fan support the books get today will be forgotten in 10 or 20 years.

Of course, that's really hard to tell whilst we are living in the era when the books are popular. Let's meet again in 50 years and discuss the impact.

[ 14. October 2017, 21:22: Message edited by: mr cheesy ]

--------------------
arse

Posts: 10325 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

lilBuddha - I suppose it depends who you are looking at. For authors, she will become a major influence.

Might be later. Currently is, I suppose, if you mean that the market is flooded by magic children.

quote:

But for readers, for culture, she is a huge influence.

Again, currently. Perhaps for the long run, we don't know yet.
Look, I am not the anti-Rowling, I am not dismissing her impact. But history is full of people who were popular in their day but have faded. Whether Rowling stands the test of time will take actual time to know.
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Her impact on the publishing field is huge. No more do the editors announce to us that children's books cannot be more than 100 pages long.

You mean Teen books, I think? Anyway Anne of Green Gables, Black Beauty, The Princess Bride, The Lord of the Flies, Flowers for Algernon, The Shannara series, The Narnia Series, Something Wicked This Way Comes, The Hobbit, etc.
quote:

No other work I know has inspired this level of devotion.

See much of the above.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17101 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:

Of course, that's really hard to tell whilst we are living in the era when the books are popular.

For this, I think, she deserves immediate recognition. Reading has been in decline and any bump it gets is praiseworthy.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17101 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Amorya

Ship's tame galoot
# 2652

 - Posted      Profile for Amorya   Email Amorya   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Her impact on the publishing field is huge. No more do the editors announce to us that children's books cannot be more than 100 pages long.
My niece was so enamored of the books that she, and two friends, have been re-enacting them. They film it on their cell phone cameras, in no particular order, and then she edits the takes together into a coherent film. Bosoms burgeon and shrink, braces come on and off, heights go up and down crazily'; all the characters are played by these three girls. But they did =all= the books, over a period of perhaps ten years -- the girls are now in their mid-20s and have just finished up. No other work I know has inspired this level of devotion.

That's amazing! Have they put any of them online?

When I was an undergrad, a group of us made a spoof version of Chamber of Secrets while staying at Iona Abbey. (Video here if anyone wants to see a bunch of students pratting around!) It's one of the best memories of my university days. Which were over ten years ago now, somehow. Definitely before I had a cellphone that could record video!

Posts: 2373 | From: Coventry | Registered: Apr 2002  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Amorya:

That's amazing! Have they put any of them online?

When I was an undergrad, a group of us made a spoof version of Chamber of Secrets while staying at Iona Abbey. (Video here if anyone wants to see a bunch of students pratting around!) It's one of the best memories of my university days. Which were over ten years ago now, somehow. Definitely before I had a cellphone that could record video! [/QB][/QUOTE]

No, that's what's so fascinating. It was done only for the three of them, out of pure love of the books. They use household items as props, seized on the fly. Chopsticks play the role of magic wands) and the dogs are pressed into duty as dragons, monsters, etc. The three girls double and treble every role. It was raw enthusiasm, a fiery desire to somehow be a part of the works..

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5820 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
And I think this might be a reason some dislike Rowling. They suspect that her fiction will not last, that it will be a flash in the pan and that the fanatical fan support the books get today will be forgotten in 10 or 20 years.

Some people make it a point to dislike anything that's wildly popular, because it makes them feel superior.

--------------------
“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63202 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
I love Tolkien, the imagination and depth is an inspiration. Lewis less deep in his fiction, but his theological works are a great insight into thinking at the time (and yes, they are useful, but need updating).

I'd say the exact opposite. His adult fiction (Till We Have Faces & The Great Divorce) are excellent, especially the former by factors of 10. His theology is, by and large, shite. His philology lite books (Studies in Words, The Discarded Image, and An Experiment in Criticism) are worth thrice the money.

--------------------
“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63202 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Paul.
Shipmate
# 37

 - Posted      Profile for Paul.   Author's homepage   Email Paul.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I devoured the Narnia books as a kid. As an adult I'm less enamoured of them. Last year I re-read The Magician's Nephew - which was always my favourite. I enjoyed it but felt no desire to continue with the series.

I'm too old to have read Harry Potter as anything but an adult. Enjoyed them all, my favourite is probably Half-Blood Prince though I also really like Chamber of Secrets. She definitely suffered from lack of editing in the later longer ones.

Lewis always claimed that Narnia wasn't an allegory but I'm not sure even he believed it. I remember flicking through a book of his letters to children (basically him answering fan mail) in which a young girl had asked if Aslan was meant to be the Lion of the tribe of Judah. He said yes. I wonder if he just denied it because it forestalled a bunch of questions about specifics that would have been tedious (even in an allegory not every little thing stands for something - preachers preaching on parables please take note).

Posts: 3681 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

 - Posted      Profile for lilBuddha     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
She definitely suffered from lack of editing in the later longer ones.

Thank you, this is a point I meant to address but forgot.
Longer ≠ better. Many authors I have followed through their career have gotten worse as their books were allowed to get longer.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 17101 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  4  5  6  ...  11  12  13 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
Check out Reform magazine
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
  ship of fools