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Source: (consider it) Thread: Treiglad meddal - the Welsh thread
Gamaliel
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# 812

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quote:
Originally posted by Jammy Dodger:
Got a question for you Welsh speakers out there. So how does hoil best translate (I may have the spelling wrong) - usually seems to mean something along the lines of passion, zeal, spirit.

I have a vague recollection of being told a Welsh greeting was sut hoil meaning "how is your spirit?". Is that correct or is my memory failing me (highly likely)?

I'm not a Welsh speaker, but a Wenglish one ...

Yes, 'hwyl' does have the connotations you list, particularly in South Wales.

'Soul' would be the nearest English or American-English equivalent.

When I was growing up it wasn't unusual to hear people say things like, 'He's got the hwyl, that preacher ...'

Or, 'He do 'ave the hwyl, aye. He do 'ave the hwyl on him.'

Others more knowledgeable than I am can say more about the regional variations with this one.

My impression is that in North Wales it tends to be more associated with 'fun' or perhaps what the Irish call 'the craic', whereas in South Wales it tends to be associated with religious enthusiasm.

It's more specific than that though, it didn't simply mean zeal or enthusiasm (although it carried that connotation) but a particular style of preaching too where the preacher would become carried away and transported by their own rhetoric with a strikingly hypnotic effect.

Given the cadence of the Welsh language - and Welsh-English too - one can readily imagine how this could happen.

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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Jammy Dodger

Half jam, half biscuit
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Thanks andras- thought it was worth asking before I got myself into trouble [Biased]

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Look at my eye twitching - Donkey from Shrek

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Jammy Dodger

Half jam, half biscuit
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And thanks too to Gamaliel on hwyl that makes more sense to me if there is a north/south variation. Ta.

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Look at my eye twitching - Donkey from Shrek

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wild haggis
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Haven't been on for ages: busy life & learning Welsh. I don't find the mutations too bad as they make pronunciation easier.

The problems, as with any language learning, is usage. Here in Cardiff it isn't spoken much. Mind you in "Coffee 1" in Roath on Saturday a young couple were chatting away in Welsh!

I'm using children's books that have CDs to help between classes. "Sam Tan" ("Fireman Sam" - my keyboard won't do a "ty bach" - sorry) is great fun as there are easy pages (suitable for a beginner like me) and more complex ones. Maybe I'm just a big kid at heart!

Our teacher has said not to use Dualingo. I had started and another lady in our class was also using it. Apparently there are a number of mistakes in it as you go on. I don't speak the language properly so can't comment. But I'll take her word for it.

Language is fascinating. I was rubbish at school, until I did a course in Descriptive Linguistics and now I enjoy languages.

Karl: re Celtic language in N Portugal. Yes, there was a Celtic language in the isolated mountains of N Portugal being used by a few old people in a very small village in the early '80s. It has gone, no doubt now with their deaths. My professor at Lisbon uni specialised in Celtic languages (great fun for a Scot learning Portuguese in Lisbon!) and was recording and anaylsing it. Apparently at that time the only way to get ballot boxes in and out was through mountain passes using donkeys, unless you had a Land Rover! If you ever go to the north, around Guimareas there are various Celtic ruins. We Celts got everywhere!

Sad when languages go, but if no one speaks them.......that's why we need to get them recorded, if we can, before they go completely.

Right going to stop now and get on with my gwaith cartref for tonight's class.

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wild haggis

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mr cheesy
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Hahaha, that's funny - one of my tutors in Gwent helped to write the content for Duolingo, so they've very keen to encourage people to use it here.

I think the main problem with it is that it doesn't really map very well onto what is taught in the classes. So I can believe it would confuse people.

On the chatting issue, here in Gwent there are various informal settings where learners are encouraged to chat. I'm not sure what happens in Cardiff but I'd be surprised if there are not various opportunities to practice the language there too. Can your tutor - or whoever organises the classes - point you in the direction of any?

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arse

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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to bach - a ty bach is the bogs.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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Re. Survival of continental Celtic in Portugal - I've drawn a complete blank. A dialect of Romance with lots of unique Celtic fearures I cam imagine, but a lone Celtic isolate - I'd expect to be able to find some citation. Such a language would be of great interest to Celticists as so much is unknown about continental Celtic languages.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Baptist Trainfan
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When my wife and I lived in Lisbon in 1982, she got friendly with a research student who was investigating the last few speakers of a language, presumably Celtic, in the Tras-os-Montes region of Portugal. I expect it has died out by now.

This was a time when some remote villages still had neither electricity nor a road connecting them to the wider world.

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:

This was a time when some remote villages still had neither electricity nor a road connecting them to the wider world.

It seems unlikely that this would have been a celtic language, as the sources seem to suggest that all celtic dialects in the region died out before the year 1000.

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arse

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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quote:
Originally posted by Baptist Trainfan:
When my wife and I lived in Lisbon in 1982, she got friendly with a research student who was investigating the last few speakers of a language, presumably Celtic, in the Tras-os-Montes region of Portugal. I expect it has died out by now.

This was a time when some remote villages still had neither electricity nor a road connecting them to the wider world.

I would say presumably not Celtic, for the reasons given above. So little is known of the ancient Celtiberian languages that such a survival would be massive news in Celtic studies.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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This article implies that the minority language of the region is indeed Mirandese http://intheknowtraveler.com/visit-celtic-portugal/

Mirandes is a Romance language. The local culture is popularly described as Celtic, but the language isn't.

Whether there are more Celtic loans in Mirandese than standard Portuguese I am not qualified to say. But I can find no reference anyway to an endangered or recently extinct actual Celtic language in the Iberian peninsula. It'd be like finding a live (or recently extinct) non-avian dinosaur wandering around North Africa; palaentologists would be all over it like a rash.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Baptist Trainfan
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I bow to your erudition! [Cool]
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