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Source: (consider it) Thread: I like this, but clearly not everybody does
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The coffee thing is cultural or possibly even doctrinal. I am informed (by my brother-in-law the Lutheran pastor) that Lutherans water their coffee to ensure that it's weak enough. Could this be heresy?

triggered

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Human

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churchgeek

Have candles, will pray
# 5557

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quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
*shamefaced* I call cars 'black and shiny' or 'small red car' or 'possibly 4x4'. I can recognise an old VW Beetle, a Ford Prefect and a red Lamborghini. If it has no roof it is a cabriolet.

Ha! You should try being from the Motor City and having no real interest in cars. I'm fairly clueless about different car models. I really only know the ones I've driven or someone close to me has driven, although sometimes I know only that my parents have a Chrysler, e.g.

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I reserve the right to change my mind.

My article on the Virgin of Vladimir

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
The coffee thing is cultural or possibly even doctrinal. I am informed (by my brother-in-law the Lutheran pastor) that Lutherans water their coffee to ensure that it's weak enough. Could this be heresy?

That would be what I call "church strength". I Fight the Good Fight for strong coffee in church.
I find that in Anglican circles the good coffee is at the top of the candle. Unfortunately for me my Anglicanism is subterranean.

Our church coffee is on the weak side for me, although it is coffee, not that fake stuff marked "instant." I am told that it is weak because some have complained it was too strong. The words, "add water," seem to have no meaning there.

I have concluded that the British only think they like coffee. How else can we explain the preponderance of instant, so often further diluted by the addition of milk in varying quantities and forms? Give most people in this country who say they like coffee a half decent real coffee, black, unsweetened, of reasonable strength, and they'll run a mile. It's like claiming to be a beer lover but only ever drinking shandy, and that made from Carling.

[ 02. December 2017, 17:05: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17719 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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quote:
Originally posted by churchgeek:
quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
*shamefaced* I call cars 'black and shiny' or 'small red car' or 'possibly 4x4'. I can recognise an old VW Beetle, a Ford Prefect and a red Lamborghini. If it has no roof it is a cabriolet.

Ha! You should try being from the Motor City and having no real interest in cars. I'm fairly clueless about different car models. I really only know the ones I've driven or someone close to me has driven, although sometimes I know only that my parents have a Chrysler, e.g.
So oft this sort of things happens. I went to public school*, and am a Dysgwr Cymraeg, as we say, a Welsh Learner, but - speak it not abroad, announce it not publically, I can't abide rugby**. Not too keen on male voice choirs either.

*i.e. private. If you're not from the UK don't ask, we don't understand it either.

**nothing to do with communal showers; I just hate it. I'm really not interested in how the sospan fach is berwi ar y dan.

[ 02. December 2017, 17:09: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17719 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Enoch
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When I left school, I vowed to myself that I would never play rugby again. I've kept that vow.

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Posts: 7390 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
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# 9597

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quote:
*i.e. private. If you're not from the UK don't ask, we don't understand it either.

In my experience, that odd terminology is something that's actually relatively well-known outside of the UK. I think I was aware of it by the time I had gotten to high school(in western Canada), in any case.

My own speculation is that the schools were originally "public" in the sense of not being church-run, and that this terminology continued after the establishment of publically-funded schools. Like I say, just speculation.

Posts: 6446 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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Re public schools in UK:

I thought they were public as opposed to private tutoring at home, which is what upper-crust folks would've had.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18177 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Re public schools in UK:

I thought they were public as opposed to private tutoring at home, which is what upper-crust folks would've had.

Eton isn't exactly lower-crust.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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SvitlanaV2
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# 16967

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The public schools are almost all very posh and expensive now, but they started out by providing free education for 'poor boys', as is the case with Eton College. Over time their reputation grew, as did their reliance on wealthy benefactors, which changed their clientele. They retain their connection with 'poor boys' (or girls) by providing scholarships and bursaries for very bright children from less well-off families, and sometimes by forging connections with local state schools.

British public schools (and independent schools in general) are a good topic for this thread. Their alumni have played a key role in British public life for almost two centuries, so they're an entrenched part of the culture - but their very dominance is seen by some as a major pillar in the class system. Their pupils go on to fill the top universities and professions, leaving less space for bright children from less privileged backgrounds.

I'm sure there are folks here who are particularly proud of what independent schools have achieved, while others will be far less impressed. I don't have a dog in the fight, but in any case, I can't see the popularity of such schools fading among those (even on the left) who can get their children into them.

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:

My own speculation is that the schools were originally "public" in the sense of not being church-run, and that this terminology continued after the establishment of publically-funded schools. Like I say, just speculation.

Plenty of public schools have religious foundations.

I always understood the "public" to indicate that the children of any member of the public with adequate funds would be educated there, as opposed to the guild schools which were restricted to the children of members of a particular guild or livery company.

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Baptist Trainfan
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My own position is ambivalent. Basically I think it's wrong that there should be either "public" schools or private medical care (ie medical care which enables you to be seen more quickly/get better care than on the NHS).

But my father was a doctor, mostly in private practice. And I went to an independent school. So I am hardly qualified to throw stones!

The only mitigation I can offer - and it is a good one - is that I went to my school under the Direct Grant system under which my fees were paid by the State. This was true for quite a high percentage (?up to 50%) of my co-students. In my view, doing away with this system was a backward step which decreased social mobility.

Posts: 9477 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Karl: Liberal Backslider
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Problem with it is it inefficiently channels limited resources to a small number of individuals. It also lets the state system off the hook; if it doesn't have to work for the most able then it won't and can acquiesce in mediocrity. The solution really is to get rid of the independent system; if the people with the money and power have to use the system they're motivated to improve it. Will never happen though.

[ 03. December 2017, 07:33: Message edited by: Karl: Liberal Backslider ]

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

Posts: 17719 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Re public schools in UK:

I thought they were public as opposed to private tutoring at home, which is what upper-crust folks would've had.

Eton isn't exactly lower-crust.
Back in the day it was. It was founded as a charity school for the poor. I think most if not all of the public schools were.

[ 03. December 2017, 07:50: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
Back in the day it was. It was founded as a charity school for the poor. I think most if not all of the public schools were.

There's some doubt about this. It is rather probable that even back in the fifteenth century or whenever, the bit about 'poor scholars' was already just a legal phrase that was necessary to create the medieval equivalent of what developed into the concept of a permanent charity.

[ 03. December 2017, 07:53: Message edited by: Enoch ]

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Posts: 7390 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
jacobsen

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# 14998

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
When I left school, I vowed to myself that I would never play rugby again. I've kept that vow.

Ditto for hockey.

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But God, holding a candle, looks for all who wander, all who search. - Shifra Alon
Beauty fades, dumb is forever-Judge Judy
The man who made time, made plenty.

Posts: 7827 | From: Æbleskiver country | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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mt--

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Re public schools in UK:

I thought they were public as opposed to private tutoring at home, which is what upper-crust folks would've had.

Eton isn't exactly lower-crust.
What I meant was, AIUI, upper-crust kids of long ago had private tutoring, if they had any education at all. Bringing those kids together, and others of like rank, made for a public school--rather than having a private tutor at home.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18177 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
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# 17338

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The reason for places like Eton, Harrow, etc, being termed "public" schools is that they were founded, or later converted, to be open to all, as opposed to those schools which had only been open either to those intending to become a religious or to those who fufilled a condition - for example orphans, children of deceased members of the armed forces, etc, etc, etc. The naming as "public" meant that anyone could apply to send their child (usually a boy) to that school provided they could afford the fees.

A private school, by contrast, is one which was originally only open to a specified group of children: the Royal Masonic Schools, for example, were originally private, being only for the children of deceased masons. Although the Head of the senior school was allowed to be a member of the HMC, it was only the Girls schools that were really public since they admitted fee-paying pupils without any masonic qualification.

Those Public schools which were originally founded by guilds are given away by their names: Haberdashers, Merchant Taylors, etc, etc, etc.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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