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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: December Book Group: Hogfather
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Sarasa
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# 12271
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Posted
The Book Group choice for December is Terry Pratchett's Hogfather . I'll post some questions later in the month, maybe a little earlier than the 20th so as not to clash with the start of people's Christmas celebrations.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
Brilliant!
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
I'm in!
![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I'm in!
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Marama
Shipmate
# 330
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Posted
I've never read anything by Terry Pratchett (yes, I know ...!) and think this might be my opportunity to try one. Is there anything I need to know first, or should I just leap in?
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marama:
I've never read anything by Terry Pratchett (yes, I know ...!) and think this might be my opportunity to try one. Is there anything I need to know first, or should I just leap in?
Only that he's bl**dy brilliant!
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Indeed he is, generally speaking - but (just to cast an early sour note on the proceedings), I don't think this is one of his better books.
YMMV - enjoy the discussion!
I'm off to continue renewing my acquaintance with some of Wilkie Collins' more obscure novels, given that I can't get out much at the moment....
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
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Dafyd
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# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marama:
I've never read anything by Terry Pratchett (yes, I know ...!) and think this might be my opportunity to try one. Is there anything I need to know first, or should I just leap in?
I think Pratchett explains everything you need to know as you go along, probably better than anyone can do on the internet.
It's the second or fourth or twentieth book in a series depending on how you count, and the series started out as a parody of the cliches of seventies and eighties fantasy fiction. So summarising everything you might possibly want to know would take some time and be not really worth it.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430
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Posted
Good advice - just go for it!
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
I've not read a lot but don't find not having the books that might (or might not) have gone before a disadvantage when reading Pratchett.
If you do want to explore further than the confines of this book here is the link to his official website.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
I'll just leave this here, although I'm sure the august readers of this site are not in need of assistance.
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Marama
Shipmate
# 330
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Posted
And with that guidance, I'll jump in and join you.
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Trudy Scrumptious
BBE Shieldmaiden
# 5647
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marama:
I've never read anything by Terry Pratchett (yes, I know ...!) and think this might be my opportunity to try one. Is there anything I need to know first, or should I just leap in?
I'm going to try it too, on the same grounds -- never read Pratchett before; always kind of meant to. Maybe not the best place to start but it will be fun to read it along with others.
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Books and things.
I lied. There are no things. Just books.
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Fredegund
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# 17952
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Posted
Not my favourite, but a good time for a re-read!
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Pax et bonum
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Celtic Knotweed
Shipmate
# 13008
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Posted
Will do some Pratchett hunting when I next get a chance - co-ownership of the set between me, the maternal Knotweed, and my brother, means that books may be on any of 3 different sides of the cattle crossing depending on who was reading them last...
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My little sister is riding 100k round London at night to raise money for cancer research donations here if you feel so inclined.
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I have to admit I agree with those who say this might not be the best to start on... but better to read any Pratchett than to not read Pratchett at all!
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
I didn't think it was one of his best when I first read it; when I reread it my opinion improved.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
I didn't think it was one of his best when I first read it; when I reread it my opinion improved.
I agree with that view, but will keep my reasons to myself until the discussion gets under way.
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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louis crandall
Apprentice
# 18781
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Posted
have read hogfather several times and it is a brilliant book I also have the film version that was made for television on dvd. Ian Richardson as the voice of death is excellent. or as death says near the end of the film ASTONISHING.
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
So when is this going to start?
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
I've just finished reading it, but I don't want to post up questions too early to give others to the chance to finish it. I was thinking of Monday 18th.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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ArachnidinElmet
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# 17346
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Posted
My copy of this is packed in a box somewhere, but I've ordered a library copy and will crack on with reading it soon.
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
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Nicolemr
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# 28
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Posted
OK, Sarasa, sounds good.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by louis crandall:
have read hogfather several times and it is a brilliant book I also have the film version that was made for television on dvd. Ian Richardson as the voice of death is excellent. or as death says near the end of the film ASTONISHING.
The TV version is being shown over Christmas in the UK on Pick (Freeview channel 11) on Thursday 28 and Friday 29 December 6-8pm.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
Thanks for the tip about the TV version, Sparrow, I'll look out for it. I think I might have seen a bit of it when it was originally on, I've certainly seen a little of one Discworld novel on TV.
Anyway here are a few questions They are very general and there is only one slight spoiler in case you have't quite finished reading the book yet. As I said at the top of the thread I've not read a lot of Pratchett so feel free to add questions of your own.
1. If you hadn't read a Discworld novel before or not many of them were you able to jump into this story or were you a bit confused by the number of characters?
2. Do you have a favourite scene and/or joke?
3. (Slight spoiler) What do you think of the idea mentioned by Death at the end that 'You have to start out learning to believe the little lies [so we can believe] in justice, mercy duty. That sort of thing' (at 92% on my Kindle)
4. If you are a big fan of Pratchett and have read all the Discworld books is this one of your favourites?
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
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Sparrow
Shipmate
# 2458
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarasa:
Thanks for the tip about the TV version, Sparrow, I'll look out for it. I think I might have seen a bit of it when it was originally on, I've certainly seen a little of one Discworld novel on TV.
Anyway here are a few questions They are very general and there is only one slight spoiler in case you have't quite finished reading the book yet. As I said at the top of the thread I've not read a lot of Pratchett so feel free to add questions of your own.
1. If you hadn't read a Discworld novel before or not many of them were you able to jump into this story or were you a bit confused by the number of characters?
2. Do you have a favourite scene and/or joke?
3. (Slight spoiler) What do you think of the idea mentioned by Death at the end that 'You have to start out learning to believe the little lies [so we can believe] in justice, mercy duty. That sort of thing' (at 92% on my Kindle)
4. If you are a big fan of Pratchett and have read all the Discworld books is this one of your favourites?
A few first quick comments:
[1] I love all Discworld so I was familiar with all the characters. I do think it helps to know the background from previous books, but you have to start somewhere!
[2] Favourite scenes ... Nobby meets Death in the grotto and immediatly reverts to a little boy .. 's'!"
And the Good King Wenceslas pastiche .. priceless!
4. It is one of my favourites but not THE favourite ... that has to be Night Watch, closely followed by Guards, Guards and the rest of the Watch series.
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For I am persuaded that neither death, nor life,nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present nor things to come, nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, will be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sarasa:
1. If you hadn't read a Discworld novel before or not many of them were you able to jump into this story or were you a bit confused by the number of characters?
I had.
quote:
2. Do you have a favourite scene and/or joke?
The scene where Death is eating a bittit. That's the scene in which the business with the poker that kills monsters pays off.
quote:
3. (Slight spoiler) What do you think of the idea mentioned by Death at the end that 'You have to start out learning to believe the little lies [so we can believe] in justice, mercy duty. That sort of thing' (at 92% on my Kindle)
I am not sure that I entirely go along with it, but it's a good statement of Pratchett's philosophy and the book earns the right to offer it up as a summation of its themes.
quote:
4. If you are a big fan of Pratchett and have read all the Discworld books is this one of your favourites?
I think it is. It's not as laugh out loud funny as some of his early books - my favourite will always be Wyrd Sisters. I think it is definitely the best he did in a more serious philosophical vein(*), as in the piece you quote above. The first three Death books left me cold. This did too when I first read it, because I didn't quite see what Pratchett was doing. Rereading it, I got that Pratchett wasn't just being funny.
(*) Serious is not the opposite of funny. Hogfather is serious and funny. Boris Johnson is not serious and not funny.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
Just on Question 3 - I think that what Pratchett is doing - and doing all the way through the book, and in some of his others as well, and not just the Discworld ones - is questioning the nature of reality.
How 'real' are justice, mercy and so on? As real as the physical universe? But is the physical universe itself 'real' or merely a quantum illusion? Elsewhere Pratchett has a lot of fun with Shrodinger's cat and its possible Superstates, and it sometimes seems that in Hogfather the only thing that is 'really real' is Susan's poker.
BTW, I'm deeply in love with Susan. Please don't tell my wife.
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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ACK
Shipmate
# 16756
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Posted
1) I have read all the discworld books, initially in order and re-read a number of them. Even so, Hogfather, the first time of reading, has a lot of characters to get your head around. I think Pratchett requires re-reading to sort out all the characters.
2) Favourite scene SPOILER – THIS IS VERY CLOSE TO THE END
When Susan throws the poker that kills monsters and it goes through Death without harming him. I.e. Susan (and Pratchett) did not consider Death a monster.
It is also thought-provoking, because at the end of its trajectory, the poker killed Teatime, which is what Susan aimed to do in throwing it.
Teatime is human. So is it OK to kill humans if they are monsters?
4) Not one of my favourites. I too love Susan, but I think 'Soul Music' is a better Susan story than 'Hogfather'.
Pratchett tends to be strong on ideas, creates interesting characters, but hit and miss on plot. There is a plot to 'Hogfather' but it seems very much a servant to him stringing together lots of ideas.
3) I would describe truth, justice, mercy etc as abstract concepts rather than lies. Starting with examples is the standard way to then move onto understanding a concept. (Eg to most people Pythagoras' theorem, the first time they meet it, does not mean much until you look at some examples). It is an interesting idea that the Hogfather, the Tooth Fairy etc help us understand the abstract concepts of morality. It is the justification for the story, explaining why Death became the Hogfather and tricked Susan into taking on Teatime. It feels like Pratchett had lots of fun with ideas and then cast around at the end for a reason for it all happening.
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
Many years ago the amiable Terry was talking about his writing on some TV programme or other and commented that it wasn't until 'about the third book' that he'd discovered what he called The joy of plot.
Given that any sort of sensible plotting is totally absent from both The Colour of Magic and The Light Fantastic I'd say that his estimate was about right; but I also think that he'd pretty-much nailed the technique of creating plots - or, perhaps, of letting them grow organically - by the time he got to Mort.
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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Marama
Shipmate
# 330
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Posted
1. If you hadn't read a Discworld novel before or not many of them were you able to jump into this story or were you a bit confused by the number of characters?
I hadn’t read any Terry Pratchett before, and wasn’t quite sure what to expect. Reading the first few pages of ‘Hogfather’ was a bit of an “Alice in Wonderland’ experience – the bewildering feeling that you’re not understanding half of what is going on. It wasn’t so much the number of characters, as that they didn’t seem to be following the roles expected of them. Death in particular confused me; I had assumed he was a ‘grim reaper’ figure, but that doesn’t seem to be quite his role (the Auditors seem much closer to that – I assume Pratchett is having a dig at the financial system). What do those who’ve read more Pratchett make of the character Death? In general I enjoyed the book, as I gradually worked out what Pratchett was doing. I found the lack of chapters off-putting, and I did feel the whole book was a bit over-long, a bit laboured in places – but perhaps I was just missing some of the jokes, or perhaps it reflects andras’ comments about plotting (which was a bit lacking at times, I felt) .
2. Do you have a favourite scene and/or joke?
I too thought the Good King Wenceslas scene great, and the scenes in the shopping centre ‘Santa/Hogfather Grotto’. Some nice comments about the nature of being a governess too.
3. (Slight spoiler) What do you think of the idea mentioned by Death at the end that 'You have to start out learning to believe the little lies [so we can believe] in justice, mercy duty. That sort of thing' (at 92% on my Kindle)
Dafyd comments that ‘Hogfather’ is both funny and serious, and that’s very apparent. I’m not sure about the quote above – it seems to me that the message of this book is that imagination and creativity are an essential part of being human (with which I would agree) – does that require the believing of ‘little lies’? Pratchett seems to think so.
4. If you are a big fan of Pratchett and have read all the Discworld books is this one of your favourites?
N/A
Posts: 910 | From: Canberra | Registered: May 2001
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Palimpsest
Shipmate
# 16772
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Posted
At a Science Fiction convention after bidding too much I missed getting a lovely HogFather momento.
It was a cross stitch sampler that said something like "Errrr... Happy HogFather's Day" It had a tidy border of pigs and death heads.
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Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marama:
I found the lack of chapters off-putting,
Sir Terry once wrote that he hated chapters, and didn't like the way they imposed artificial structure on his stories. So he didn't use them, except in his young adult fiction where the publisher forced him to put them in.
I'm curious as to why you find the lack of chapters off-putting. Is it that you want a regular signposted stopping place so you know where is a good spot to put the book down, or something else?
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Marama
Shipmate
# 330
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Posted
I guess that is what I mean, LC. Disconcerting is probably a better description of what I felt than off-putting. Somehow lacking internal markers (I was reading it on an e-reader, and page nos seem a bit variable there too). Not a serious issue though.
Posts: 910 | From: Canberra | Registered: May 2001
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
Death - the Discworld character - is indeed The Grim Reaper, and he has the scythe to prove it. But he is also most kind and gentle death, fascinated by humanity; and, by a considerable margin, he is Pratchett's most popular character.
In the early days of Discworld, Pratchett was criticised unmercifully for his perceived failure to divide his books up into chapters; it apparently made him into some sort of amateur scribbler that no-one with any taste would want to read.
But chapters really only make sense when the work breaks down into convenient roughly-even-sized chunks, as it would be if published in installments. Certainly Douglas Adams suffered from the perceived need to break his books into chapters - his tend to vary from a single page to a dozen or more.
There have been several comments on the wonderful Wenceslas parody, which I also love. The Little Match Girl episode is a gem too.
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
1. N/A
2. Another vote for the scene where Nobby Nobbs goes to see the Hogfather. Also the wizards' grumpy Hogwatch - for a few years this was one of my required bits of Christmas reading, in the same way normal people might have John Betjeman or Dylan Thomas.
3. One of the difficulties with Christianity is that lots of the stories in our holy book are essentially myth, and although it's easy to say 'well that's how people in those days communicated deep and meaningful truths', it's not so easy to articulate why. And although Terry Pratchett never seems very sympathetic towards Christianity, he does articulate an answer to this quite well.
(Of course I wouldn't describe justice, mercy etc as 'lies' - and I suspect that's exaggeration for dramatic effect - but they aren't something for which you can provide empirical evidence.)
4. Yes. I agree the plot is a bit meandering, but it meanders between scenes that are funny and effective. Also I think the philosophy implied in Q3 gives it a sense of purpose and direction.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marama:
It wasn’t so much the number of characters, as that they didn’t seem to be following the roles expected of them. Death in particular confused me; I had assumed he was a ‘grim reaper’ figure, but that doesn’t seem to be quite his role (the Auditors seem much closer to that – I assume Pratchett is having a dig at the financial system). What do those who’ve read more Pratchett make of the character Death?
Death probably has the most complex backstory of any of the characters.
It's established very early on that Death doesn't have to be present at every creature's death, but just at some 'important' ones. What defines a death as important is never specified. (There is a scene in Mort where Death's adopted daughter has to work out 'the nodes' but this is never alluded to ever again.) This is probably more of a narrative necessity than anything else because otherwise Death would never have a chance to pursue any other interests, as it were.
At some point Death became fascinated with humanity, partly because humanity is weird in ways that look like they should have some underlying logic, and partly because as an anthropomorphic personification he is ultimately a creation of humanity. This leads him to act as a sort of guardian angel to humanity, much more so than the gods themselves (who are generally portrayed as capricious and self-absorbed).
I don't think the Auditors represent the financial system (there are some very pointed barbs against venture capitalists in some of the later books and these are much more explicit) so much as over-prescriptive thinking. (One of the recurring bugbears throughout his work is school systems that complain when children learn the 'wrong' things even if they are enjoying and appreciating what they learn. The Auditors, I think, represent that sort of mentality writ large.)
[ 24. December 2017, 11:47: Message edited by: Ricardus ]
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
I love the bits with HEX, the magical computer.
The overall theme of the book, I think has to do with myth and reality, and the power of belief.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
To me, the auditors represent the particular type of headteacher who will refuse a child a day off to go to their grandmother's funeral, but will send another child home for a week until their hair grows back the requisite millimetre by which it falls short of a prescribed minimum. Rules are all, the rationale behind them and any sense of proportion doesn't come into it.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Marama
Shipmate
# 330
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Posted
Thanks, Ricardus, that helped answer some of my questions about Death.
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andras
Shipmate
# 2065
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
To me, the auditors represent the particular type of headteacher who will refuse a child a day off to go to their grandmother's funeral, but will send another child home for a week until their hair grows back the requisite millimetre by which it falls short of a prescribed minimum. Rules are all, the rationale behind them and any sense of proportion doesn't come into it.
Like the reviewer who castigates a writer because he doesn't write in chapters, but who doesn't actually bother to read the book!
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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Sarasa
Shipmate
# 12271
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Posted
1. Not having read a lot of Discworld novels I was a bit confused, but managed to get into it without too much bother.
2. I rather liked the bit where the wizards were accidently creating the lost sock gnome, the cheerful fairy etc etc. A lot fof the jokes seemed a bit familiar. I'm not sure if that's because a lot of my friends are keen fans and have used the jokes on me already, or if Pratchett was recycling old ones.
3. I thought there was a rather serious message about the nature of belief running through the book, but as I find Pratchett's whole style rather confusing I'm not sure that I un-picked it properly
4. I'm not a big Practhett fan, tending to prefer the ones for children. I thought 'Johnny and the Dead' was a cracking book for instance, one which told me about Pal's Brigades in WW1, something i didn't know about.
I'm trying to work out why I'm not that keen on Pratchett. I do think I do like a clearer plot and I did find so many characters, many of whom seemed to be there for their joke potential a bit tedious.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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Gill H
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# 68
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Posted
Just a heads-up - it’s on TV now in the UK on Pick channel (available on Freeview).
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*sigh* We can’t all be Alan Cresswell.
- Lyda Rose
Posts: 9313 | From: London | Registered: May 2001
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Ricardus
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# 8757
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Posted
Someone on Radio Three a few nights ago read out an extract from the memoirs of a Soviet woman which instantly made me think of the Auditors.
Her class at school had put on a short play in which the Pioneers expelled most of the heroes of Russian folklore as 'non-Soviet elements'. Cinderella was a traitor to the working class, Father Frost was a spy, etc. Only Ivan the Fool was spared because he wasn't a class traitor. The children for whom this was performed were rather upset.
[ 31. December 2017, 14:44: Message edited by: Ricardus ]
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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andras
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# 2065
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Posted
As I remarked earlier, Pratchett came to appreciate the 'joy of plot' only after the first couple of Discworld books had been written, and his habit of including events and characters purely for their entertainment value never quite deserted him.
There's a very interesting article (well, I enjoyed it anyway!) by Tim Lott in today's Guardian on the poor sales of Literary Novels - whatever they are - and writers who have quite literally 'lost the plot.'
Link here.
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God's on holiday.
(Why borrow a cat?)
Adrian Plass
Posts: 544 | From: Tregaron | Registered: Dec 2001
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ArachnidinElmet
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# 17346
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Posted
I hope it's ok to put my tuppen'orth in this late in the day.
1. If you hadn't read a Discworld novel before or not many of them were you able to jump into this story or were you a bit confused by the number of characters?
I’ve read numerous Discworld books, but not the whole set. This was one I’d missed. I'm used to Pratchett's style so I was fine, but wouldn't recommend it as first book. It relies too much on prior knowledge of Susan and the role/character of Death.
2.favourite scene and/or joke?"it was nice to hear the voices of children at play, provided you took care to be far enough away not to hear what they were actually saying" and
"getting an education was a bit like getting a communicable sexual disease. It made you unsuitable for a lot of jobs and then you had the urge to pass it on"
Also the death of the sea creature at the beginning, which is sweet.
What do you think of the idea mentioned by Death... I don't buy it myself. Justice and mercy aren't lies but basic things we all deserve, but it fits Death, who is a very moral character in his own way.
I have a fundamentally different worldview than Pratchett, but at the same time there are scenes in different books that have stayed with me, that I live by.
4.is this one of your favourites
I prefer City Watch stories and Moist van Lipwig, and early witches. Although anything with Death of Rats makes me happy.
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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ArachnidinElmet
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# 17346
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Posted
Just to add, having worked in a place with 4 Davids with various nicknames, including Little Dave, I can vouch for fundamental veracity of the naming of Medium Dave.
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'If a pleasant, straight-forward life is not possible then one must try to wriggle through by subtle manoeuvres' - Kafka
Posts: 1887 | From: the rhubarb triangle | Registered: Sep 2012
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Sarasa
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# 12271
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Posted
ArachnidinElmet said:
quote:
I have a fundamentally different worldview than Pratchett, but at the same time there are scenes in different books that have stayed with me, that I live by.
I think this is why I'm not adverse to reading Pratchett every now and agan. I find his meandering plots and multitude of characters rather wearing, but in every book there is at least one scene that gives me food for thought.
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'I guess things didn't go so well tonight, but I'm trying. Lord, I'm trying.' Charlie (Harvey Keitel) in Mean Streets.
Posts: 2035 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2007
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