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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The game that batters: the rugby thread
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Can't help thinking England could have stolen a win if they'd just kept the ball in rolling mauls etc. for the remaining 15 minutes.
OH Nooo .... got to keep punting the damn thing in the air, right down the throats of the French runners.
Always looks easy from the armchair view .
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
On the bright side, the English press won't be spending the next few weeks masturbating over the Grand Slam England were guaranteed, as they did last year...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Anyone else think the new rules about binding at the scrum seem to be causing more problems than they're (supposedly) solving?
See my posts five or so up from this...
The general view around our Shack is that the new rules have reduced Adam Jones to a lumbering mass. The "hit" has all but gone, so the advantage a 120kg tight-head has over a 110kg loose-head is a lot less. You now want scrummaging front row players, not those suited to the initial impact. I think the French showed that.
btw, rolyn is dead right. Keepball is the #1 rugby tactic. Always was, always will be.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
I do think the TV official might have noticed that the first Italian try came off an incredibly forward pass...
Yes, I think we found out in the Autumn Internationals that try-scoring forward passes are now allowed, as long as they are not too extremely forward.
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Anyone else notice that wonderful STRAIGHT put-in during the Ireland-Scotland match.
Even the commentary team remarked how rare it was.
Also noted that the new scrum rules are exposing a lack of basic scrummaging skill - hookers unable to hook, etc.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Also noted that the new scrum rules are exposing a lack of basic scrummaging skill - hookers unable to hook, etc.
Problem is, as I noted upthread last year, that for the best part of two decades hooking *hasn't been* a required scrummaging skill, basic or otherwise. As a consequence we've now got internationals who have literally never been required to do it at school, colts, academies, wherever. It's consequently like re-introducing contested scrums into RL; something that was onc ebread and butter is going to be something that is wrongfooting international-level players.
It will get better with time, and hookers actually having to hook is something I very much welcome, but it's not going to be pretty whilst they essentially learn what their jobs are again. Actually, SS makes a very good point, maybe we're going to see some current internationals pushed aside (no pun intended) as we start looking for technical competency again over brute strength. Maybe some of the curent crop of household names actually haven't got it in them and are being found out by a return to a more traditional way of playing the game...
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And is it true? For if it is....
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
In what some may think a rare display of common sense one of the bravest rugby players of modern times has quit.
Andy Hazell has retired on medical advice due to concussion. God knows how many knocks he has taken in an top-class rugby career of seventeen years, mostly from players bigger than himself. I hope he's OK and that others take notice of what he has done now and says in the future.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
In what some may think a rare display of common sense one of the bravest rugby players of modern times has quit.
Andy Hazell has retired on medical advice due to concussion. God knows how many knocks he has taken in an top-class rugby career of seventeen years, mostly from players bigger than himself. I hope he's OK and that others take notice of what he has done now and says in the future.
His first quote though does rather suggest that they won't and he wouldn't have when younger either...
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
If anyone in the Scotland setup has watched any videos of the England scrum they will have worked out how to beat England this weekend:
- Any time Scotland get possession they must either knock on or forward pass (forward enough for it to count as forward).
- Scrum to England
- Penalty to Scotland
I think Scotland should be capable of this.
Enough of those penalties should be convertable into 3 points.
[ 04. February 2014, 19:01: Message edited by: Jonah the Whale ]
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St. Gwladys
Shipmate
# 14504
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Posted
27:6 -I don't need to say anymore ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
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"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
27:6 -I don't need to say anymore
I don't think I have seen a French rugby team so grumpy! You wouldn't know that Wales were without their first-choice lock forwards and had a wing playing in the centre. France on the other hand looked clueless at half-back - decent players but a poor combination.
If (and this is a big if) England beat Ireland tomorrow, the championship will be wide open but I make Ireland favourites, even at Twickenham.
In the other fixture Scotland play Italy in the annual Wooden Spoon match.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Thank goodness!
Normal service resumed.
French were grumpy until they reached the bars afterwards - #1 son tells me Cardiff was very lively last night.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I expect the Irish are pretty down now. The national side lost to England by three points and London Irish have just lost at home to Leicester by five, having missed two very kickable penalties and butchered a try opening with two minutes to go. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I expect the Irish are pretty down now.
England were fortunate to come away with a win considering we were pushed around all over the park in the scrum . Still, losing your own put-in is better than giving away a penalty.
Credit to the players for coming back from 10-3 down, and to the Twickenham crowd for providing the necessary encouragement .
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Is there where I crow about England beating Wales? England were more physical than Wales, just the opposite to last year's debacle at the Millenium Stadium, but the best aspect of the match was that England won penalties against Wales at the scrum - with our second-string props! We still gave penalties away and that kept Wales in the game but everything else was good.
In other news Ireland thrashed Italy - they could have scored sixty - and France won undeservedly (yet) again. I'm hoping they do the same again next week to give England a realistic chance of the championship, but that means supporting France against Ireland, which is against my nature.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
We didn't play well. Tactially we haven't moved on from last season and it showed.
Having failed with a closed-down game in the first half we should have opened it up more in the second but we didn't, and paid the price.
Leigh Halfpenny is a great player but he can't and shouldn't be expected to win a match entirely on his own.
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
Two major lapses in concentration by Wales were punished with 2 England tries.
As with the Ireland game I daresay home advantage helped swing things a bit. Not that I'd want to take anything away from a generally much improved England effort in this tournament.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
England have shown how serious they are by selecting Manu Tuilagi over Alex Goode for the Italy match. Let's face it, no one in international rugby is afraid of Alex Goode while Manu is another matter. Given half an hour against a tiring side he, plus the rest of England's Heavy Brigade, could do some serious damage.
OTOH, Italy's forwards always have a chance in the scrums and Dylan Hartley gifts the opposition six points on his own.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
1) Ireland deservedly won the Six Nations Championship, giving BOD a great send off.
2) England finish runners-up, with the consolation of beating the champions on the way to the Triple Crown.
(I believe Wales had a training run at the Milleneum Stadium)
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Ireland played very well - French a bit curate's egg.
England were OK but maybe should have done more when Bortolami was in the sin-bin.
We were fine, greatly helped by Scotland being reduced to 14 after the disgraceful body-slam by Hogg.
Final analysis: it was a great end for Brian O'Driscoll and Ireland were the best team overall for their 5 matches.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
Perhaps it's time to part company with Scotland and Italy. Let them form their own competition with Romania and Georgia, or anyone else of that kind of standard.
JtW
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
I rather suspect that won't happen because the commercial pressure won't allow it.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
You're right of course, but it's fun to speculate. The Georgians, incidentally, are crazy about rugby. They sold out a 55000 seater stadium for a match against Russia last month.
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Georgia could get 55,000 in for anything against Russia.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
The much heralded West Country derby (Glaws v Bath) was, according to the commentary team, a poor game of Rugby. It was certainly badly refereed until the last ten minutes and it was violent at times with five yellow cards and two reds, both to Gloucester, one for a high tackle and an another for starting an all-in fight close to the end. Oh, and Bath won by one point thanks to a penalty try two minutes from the end.
It might not have been great rugby, but it was unmissable, like Wales v Ireland in the Good Old Days.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Anyone else notice that the summer tours have started.
It came to my attention when England were already 60 minutes into their first Test against the All Blacks. Score was 9-9, and apparently it was tight as a whelk's arse.
Some dodgy refereeing*, a few missed tackles, and moment of All Black ingenuity later, England concede a last minute try and lose the game.
Shucks.
But at least we weren't annihilated.
Nigel Owen, that Welsh unmentionable, again.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Disappointing result and it shows what depth England have, but having seen it I wasn't surprised at Yarde's yellow card. Others on both sides could have been carded at other times, but that's international rugby.
Despite their returning stars England will be playing against a NZ side that are far more together than they were at kick-off this morning.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Disappointing result and it shows what depth England have, but having seen it I wasn't surprised at Yarde's yellow card. Others on both sides could have been carded at other times, but that's international rugby.
Yeah, I had no argument with Yarde's yellow. But it was the absence of one when a Kiwi did the same thing on the line just a few minutes before that got me.
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Despite their returning stars England will be playing against a NZ side that are far more together than they were at kick-off this morning.
Yeah, I fear our chance to win a game has been and gone.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Anyone else notice that the summer tours have started.
That would be the winter tours ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
Funnily enough I thought 28-27 was close to a reasonable reflection on a game that the ABs really only broke open for about 20 minutes - when Smith, Smith and Smith really got their pace on.
The last try will annoy the ABs and I reckon Steve Hansen will have given them a bollocking.
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and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Just for the record, I am fed up losing by narrow margins.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Imaginary Friend
Real to you
# 186
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Posted
Half time. The BBC minute-by-minute summed the game up as "Men against boys? Men against zygotes." Ouch.
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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
looks like you might not have your heart in your mouth this time, Sioni ...
My heart was sunk after about twenty minutes.
I was afraid we'd get tonked in one of the games and our no-show for the first-half made sure of that! No that our absence was all our fault: the AB's don't want you to play. They have been the best defensive team for as long as I can remember, making fewer errors, unforced or otherwise, than anyone.
It's good to see some players back from the cold, and Cipriani appears to have his head switched on now.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
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Posted
The final of the Super 15 was a very good game to watch, with both sides running the ball at most of the opportunities they got. Two good tries apiece. The Canterbury Crusaders didn't wake up for the first 15 minutes, but which time they were trailing by 14-0. But (as you expect from a top NZ side) they came back strongly and had got into the lead by 32-30 with 4 minutes to go. But uncharacteristically the failed to shut it down and a counterattack from a misplaced kick saw the NSW Waratahs get close enough to kick a last-minute penalty to take the game by 33-32.
And about time, as NSW have been stacked with internationals for years, but have previously failed to gel as a team and this is their first premiership in this comp.
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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
First Bledisloe: a grinding unattractive game that I felt the wallabies dominated - but the whistle of Jaco Peyper dominating - not, most of the time, without good cause.
Against some complacent kiwi expectations the Wallabies turned up with an outstanding front five - Slipper for me was, with Israel Folau, man of the match - the latter proof that occasionally league players really can play rugby (I don't rate Sonny Bill Williams that hot). The ABs spent 20 minutes of the game with players sin-binned, and are going to have to make adjustments to their handling of the ruck in particular if that's not to be a season-long pattern.
The ABs had one or two moments, but squandered them. the Wobblies had far more, but threw away a couple of 3 pointers which could have saved the game - and one they did take Kurtly Beale hit the upright. Scrambling AB defence saved the day for NZ a few times, and Julian Savea (probably the best of the ABs) finally repaid that 1994 tackle of Gregan on Wilson with a massive game saving hit on a rampant McCabe.
Probably a game to forget in terms of spectacle, but the ABs tilt at a world record 18 straight wins is over, deservedly, and the Wallabies probably deserved better than a 12-12 (penalties only) draw.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
Congratulations to England's women for winning the Rugby World Cup in France on Sunday, and a big thank you to Ireland for efectively putting New Zealand out.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
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Posted
I was worried in advance of the second Bledisloe test that we might see a re-run of what happened in the England -NZ series. In the first test, the All Blacks play below par (for them) and are almost beaten, but then sweep back with their 'A-game' for a massive win the second test.
And that is indeed what happened to Australia tonight. The ABs blew them away with power, pace and relentless backing-up at speed , both in attack and defence. And that's even with McCaw in the sin -bin for 10 minutes of the first half.
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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
Well done Wallabies over the 'Boks - couldn't watch that one. The ABs sort of neutralized and then ground down a dogged Pumas side in wet conditions ... Beauden Barrett showed explosive pace at 10 but had a shocker at the place kick (one from five) ... Julian Savea was deadly and deserved his two tries; he was best on field. Dagg on his home turf was a superb territory gainer with his massive kicks almost reaching our back yard (we live close to the park). The hidden work though was the forwards, Captain McCaw as ever leading a tough crew who in the end wore down the mammoth South American machine.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
To a dank Billesley Common on Friday night to watch Moseley come up just short against the rugby-club-formally-known-as-Leeds. Still bodes well for the season though. A great club, very much on the up - and will generally send you home smiling even when they lose.
In other news, London Welsh, my other club, are not only still looking for a win but also for a way to not get hammered every week.
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
In other news, London Welsh, my other club, are not only still looking for a win but also for a way to not get hammered every week.
They aren't the first promoted club to struggle in the top tier of English Rugby, and it's early yet. Treat the first half of the season as a learning experience, then gain points at the expense of clubs missing international players in the second half.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
The Boks deserved their cliff-hanger win over the ABs this morning ... they played the better rugby in the first half and all but shut the ABs out of the game with explosive attacks. Strangely the ABs seemed the fitter, faster side in the second half, and clawed back into the lead, but were sunk in the end by a mind-blowing 53 meter penalty. A fantastic game - for me the quiet work of Serfontein was a man of the match performance.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
Posts: 18917 | From: "Central" is all they call it | Registered: Sep 2004
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Jonah the Whale
Ship's pet cetacean
# 1244
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Posted
So who has got their tickets for the RWC already? A colleague of mine was lucky enough to get tickets for the final. I got a couple of minor games, not the ones I was really after.
A few little matches coming up in the next few weeks. Does anyone think there is a chance the All Blacks can be beaten? What about Australia or South Africa?
Posts: 2799 | From: Nether Regions | Registered: Aug 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
England will run them close (again) but they won't win simply becuse even when you are better than New Zealand, they win because they make fewer mistakes. Moreover England are without their first-choice locks, Parling and Launchbury, who are streets ahead of anyone else.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Spot on SS.
And McCaw is a much better (and more experienced) captain.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960
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Posted
Two other reasons why NZ are so hard to beat are:
(1) They nearly always make you pay for your mistakes.
and (2) they never give up and are still running strongly until the final whistle has sounded- not just the hooter. Witness the win they "stole" from Australia last month with a try just as the hooter sounded.
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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.
Posts: 594 | From: Oz | Registered: Sep 2007
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jonah the Whale:
So who has got their tickets for the RWC already?
No joy here yet. Considering it's four for Scotland vs Japan I'm after, that's a bit galling, though possibly not as galling as discovering I could have ordered "second-best" priced tickets... and still been at one end of the ground! Ho hum, at least I'm getting donations form family for the tickets that are presents...
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
Posts: 3574 | From: The wardrobe of my soul | Registered: Jul 2007
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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Tukai:
Two other reasons why NZ are so hard to beat are:
(1) They nearly always make you pay for your mistakes.
and (2) they never give up and are still running strongly until the final whistle has sounded- not just the hooter. Witness the win they "stole" from Australia last month with a try just as the hooter sounded.
It's the topography. We're used to farming both siders of the acre, so playing both sides of the whistle is a cinch.
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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/
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