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» Ship of Fools   » Special interest discussion   » The Circus   » The game that batters: the rugby thread (Page 11)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: The game that batters: the rugby thread
Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by Tukai:
Two other reasons why NZ are so hard to beat are:
(1) They nearly always make you pay for your mistakes.
and (2) they never give up and are still running strongly until the final whistle has sounded- not just the hooter. Witness the win they "stole" from Australia last month with a try just as the hooter sounded.

More seriously though (than my previous) I thought one thing stood out in the ABs performance, and that was their ability to adapt. It seemed to me that they came out with a different game approach after half time, shutting down some of the things England were doing well (not least their kick offs). Then when the rain came they adapted more rapidly than England, keeping the ball close, shutting down any risks of slippery passes. Finally, when they were down to fourteen - even before the card came out, McCaw seemed to be calling in a new strategy, and potential gaps immediately closed.

Against Scotland I would imagine Dan the Man will get a lot of game time. I hope they bring Ben Smith into fullback - I'm not convinced Israel Dagg is firing on all cylinders, and I think Ben Smith has some outstanding abilities to attack from deep defensive positions. Conrad Smith has gone home but Ryan Crotty will bring some pretty serious talent to the midfield. Sonny Bill is warming to the task at last - he's never completely convinced me before, but this time round is looking like an All Black.

And then there's Savea. [Overused]

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and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

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Rejoice, Rejoice!

Wales beat the 'Boks.

Not a brilliant game. We need to be more clinical and get the ball over the try line but a WIN nonetheless.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Albertus
Shipmate
# 13356

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A scrappy and bitty game with SA playing rather negatively, I thought ('jump on them and then kick for distance', and a rather finicky referee who seemed to get very worked up about fairly minor knock-ons (knocks-on?) but didn't appear to be too bothered about the odd tackle at throat height.
But still- we won! (Also journey from my seat back to new flat took literally five minutes!)

[ 29. November 2014, 21:27: Message edited by: Albertus ]

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My beard is a testament to my masculinity and virility, and demonstrates that I am a real man. Trouble is, bits of quiche sometimes get caught in it.

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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Rejoice indeed. The BBC website says 'gutsy' Wales and that had a lot to do with it. They fronted up to the 'Boks.

Moreover, Wales did it without emptying the bench. They brought on just one substitute, Scott Williams, which must have maintained cohesion and morale compared to some games that get very loose from the hour mark. I wonder if other sides will now look at this?

Oh, and England didn't do so badly either. Our forwards look good, and Lawes did a lot of good things without giving too many pens away; we just need judgment and penetration in midfield.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

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posted by Albertus
quote:
journey from my seat back to new flat took literally five minutes!
Cathedral Road, Albertus?

I've always hankered after a flat in one of the blocks beside the Arms Park...

Son #1 said the atmosphere was very tense in the last 5 minutes but is now feeling much more relaxed, if the sound of drunken singing and breaking glass in the background when he just called is anything to go by [Snigger]

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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<bump> for Bath's performance at Toulouse where they won! Not only did they win but they did so by 35-15.

The only sour note was some football-style "simulation" by Yoann Huget. It was almost enough to make one hope he gets stuck at the bottom of a ruck, ideally against the All Blacks.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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deano
princess
# 12063

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Anyone apart from me disapointed that Steffon Armitage isn't in the England Six Nations squad announced today?

Call me old fashioned but I think you pick your best players and if there is a better English Flanker in the game at the moment then I've yet to see them.

To be honest, come the world cup if we don't win or come very close, then people are going to be pointing fingers not only at Stuart Lancaster, but the ERB as well.

It would have been better to include SA, tell him the jersey is yours to grab so show us what you can do in the six nations. If he does great, if he doesn't then Easter, Morgan - if he recovers in time of course - etc will step up and nobody can point fingers.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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I'm disappointed too, as Armitage has overshadowed players from the Southern hemisphere and France in all the club tournaments.

The only problem is that he's playing at no 8 right now, presumably because he does the scrum work better than the far taller men who play on the flank (SA is only 5'9", Toulon's regular flanker's are both 6'5"). That would IMHO make him a candidate for England's no 8 position where Morgan is out and Billy Vunipola, while a wrecking ball in broken play, isn't so good in the tight and no one, apart from possibly Julian Salvi of Leicester, is as good at ruck-ball turnovers.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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Looks like some hopefuls will get a game against Wales next month as quite a few of England's first-choice players got injured in the European Championship matches over the weekend.

It worked out pretty well for the clubs though. Four English teams through to the quarter-finals (very good), although they are up against three French teams plus Leinster, all away from home (not so good).

Come on Wales! Where are the regional teams?

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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deano
princess
# 12063

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Farrell is out. Cips to start against Wales? Hope so.

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
Farrell is out. Cips to start against Wales? Hope so.

Wales would love Danny Cipriani to start against them. He's tougher than he was, but I'm certain that Wales will send any number of runners down the no 10 channel, and their entire three-quarter line enjoy contact.

With Farrell out I'd rather have have Steven Mylor in the 23, because he's more suited to England's strengths.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Sandemaniac
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# 12829

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Are there actually fifteen fit rugby players left in England at the mo?

AG

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Are there actually fifteen fit rugby players left in England at the mo?

AG

From memory there were never fifteen fit players on any Wednesday through the season. By Friday, things may have changed.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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As of this morning England have 23 fit rugby players so the match is on. Rumour had it that Martin Johnson was doing circuits to provide some backup if the second-riow crisis got much worse!

How do shipmates think the matches will go? This weekends games are:

Wales v England (tonight)
Italy v Ireland (Saturday)
France v Scotland (Saturday)

I take Wales to win, partly because of England's injuries but mostly because it's in Cardiff. Ireland, despite retirements and injuries ought to be too good for Italy but Scotland just might do the job against France, who are vulnerable early in the tournament and also because, by tradition, everyone in the team is loathed by at least one other player, even if it's only by club affiliation.

[ 06. February 2015, 12:32: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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Isn't it a wonderful morning to be an Englishman?!

[Big Grin]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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betjemaniac
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# 17618

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Yes.

That was genuinely unexpected.

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And is it true? For if it is....

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Albertus
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# 13356

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Bloody awful morning to be Welsh, though, or at least Welsh in rugby nationality. What a shower. They had the whole nation behind them, this is the most important game of the year in many ways, they were expected to win, they took an early lead- and then they just couldn't get it together. And now all the Tims and Roddys and Ruperts and their vacuously adoring white-jerseyed blonde girlfriends are having- deservedly- a good old laugh at us.

I don't know what was sizzling in Gatland's frying pan this morning but it should have been 15 pairs of bollocks. I am thinking of supporting France for the rest of the tournament.

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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It was a Very Good Evening indeed! England's rookie midfield was first rate and Wales three-quarters, all of them bigger and more experienced achieved virtually nothing all day. Warren Gatland is plain, dead wrong to put the defeat down to "Individual errors" - England changed their tactics at half-time and Wales didn't respond, which is a coaching & leadership issue.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

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My house is in mourning.

The sons are distraught, going around the house muttering: 'What on earth happened?' and 'Pam y duwiau o rygbi wedi gadael ni?' (Have the gods of rugby cast us out?).

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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deano
princess
# 12063

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
My house is in mourning.

The sons are distraught, going around the house muttering: 'What on earth happened?' and 'Pam y duwiau o rygbi wedi gadael ni?' (Have the gods of rugby cast us out?).

A) you were beaten by the England B team
B) Yes. Very much so.

It was the roof that did for you of course.

Hee....

[ 07. February 2015, 14:36: Message edited by: deano ]

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"The moral high ground is slowly being bombed to oblivion. " - Supermatelot

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by deano:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
My house is in mourning.

The sons are distraught, going around the house muttering: 'What on earth happened?' and 'Pam y duwiau o rygbi wedi gadael ni?' (Have the gods of rugby cast us out?).

A) you were beaten by the England B team
B) Yes. Very much so.

It was the roof that did for you of course.

Hee....

Some of the incomers, like Kruis, Ford and Joseph are going to take some shifting.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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After fairly close games at the weekend (Ireland won by 23 points, but their tries were both scored when Italy were a man down), news comes of this match in Belgium.

Embarrassing all round.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

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I've just seen a try awarded to England when an Italian player had the ball when it touched the ground...

And the fourth official was meant to stop these f**k-ups!

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Yeah, even as an Englishman I thought that should never have been given.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sandemaniac
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# 12829

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Fuck me, who writes Cipriani's scripts?

Incidentally, I agree about that try - very surprised to see it given.

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Fuck me, who writes Cipriani's scripts?

George Ford, he's set things up nicely for him.
quote:


Incidentally, I agree about that try - very surprised to see it given.

AG

Me too. Overall everything changed with England winning a penalty after Brown was carried off. I think the ref altered his view of the game then!

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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I thought Twelvetrees was excellent, and he came on at that time. But Italy seemed to give up in the last half hour. Disappointing, really.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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Agree with you about Twelvetrees, he did well against Wales in just a few minutes too. Jonny May had a patchy game - does anyone think Joseph may stay on the wing in his place?

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338

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Not a convincing Welsh performance but still, we won.

Think the English will have to tighten things up considerably before they meeting the Irish.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Not a convincing Welsh performance but still, we won.

Think the English will have to tighten things up considerably before they meeting the Irish.

Yes to the first and emphatically yes to the second. Our line defence was pretty shabby at times and we missed tackles. Moreover Ireland won't throw 11 points away like Italy did.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Is the dog OK?

AG

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Is the dog OK?

AG

I see that it was described as a "Slight domestic incident". I'm not sure Castro' can be involve in a slight anything.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Least of all ending in that many stitches!

Adrian

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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Go on, who would be a rugby ref? I can see why George Clancy made the critical decision he did at the end of the Scotland v Italy match but oh, it's tough and the margins are so tight.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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C'mon Wales! All of England hopes that you can beat Ireland on March 14th in Cardiff.

That's another way of saying that Ireland were way better than England and must be wondering how they only won the game by ten points.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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iamchristianhearmeroar
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Really disappointed with England's performance against Ireland. Fair play to Ireland, they outplayed us in almost every area of the game and deserved their win. I'm only glad they didn't win it by the margin they deserved!

I think we can probably expect some changes now players are returning from injuries.

In the pack I think we'll see one of Atwood and Cruis making way for Courtney Lawes. Atwood gave away too many penalties, and what was up with the lineout? I'd also like to see someone coming in for James Haskell - again, gave away too many penalties (that was his fault of old).

I think Lancaster will stick with George Ford at half back, and I think that's the right move. Youngs looked off the boil at SH - really need him or Danny Care back to their best, otherwise Wigglesworth or even Joe Simpson will end up pushing their way in.

Three quarters I'm not sure we've got quite right yet. I wonder if Lancaster will a Twelvetrees/Joseph combo a go? I like Burrell as a player (I support Northampton after all) but think Twelvetrees might just edge him.

Back three - if Brown is fit he walks straight back in at FB. I prefer Nowell to May on the wing. Still not convinced about the selections at wing, though. Can't Ashton (or even Banahan) rediscover some of their form please?!

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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Can't help but agree with you. Attwood & Kruis, especially the latter, have done well, but Haskell is a liability, especially compared to Wood who is nearly as good as Richard Hill. Ideally we need Lawes back with Parling to run the line-out.

I don't think our centres did much wrong against Ireland: their defence was superb and Watson & Nowell did all they could. Goode simply wasn't.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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L'organist
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# 17338

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Did no one else watch the matches this weekend?

Thought we were a lot better against the Irish - yes, slightly lucky with the last penalty decision but before that our defence was magnificent. For those who would have preferred a more open game, so would I: but the stakes were too high for that and, to be blunt, I'm amazed there wasn't a serious brawl before the end.

England played efficiently but, God, they're dull to watch: if only the Scots had some defence and more stamina they'd be a far more entertaining prospect. As it is, they showed in the first half some real flair as a team which one hopes can be built on in time for the World Cup.

As for the match between Italy and France, I thought Eddie Butler summed it up beautifully on the Beeb when he said it was a dreadful day in Rome and left the listener to decide whether he was referring to the weather (which was appalling) or what was happening in the Stadio Olimpico.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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How can you say that England were efficient but dull? In the first quarter, and sporadically at other times England they were exactly the opposite. They were exciting, but woefully inefficient! Had they been efficient then the score would have been about 19-0 after fifteen minutes and we would have put fifty points on them (estimates range from five to six utterly butchered try-scoring chances). I reckon we have gifted the title to Ireland, again.

I'm also amazed that Wales v Ireland didn't turn into an allinscrap, but doubt the Welsh would have had the energy for it - their defence was awesome and legal too!

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Jonah the Whale

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# 1244

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Will the real France finally show up this weekend and ruin England's six nations? If they are as bad as they have been at times this season then I think England can still pull it off. I'm not counting on it though.
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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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The real France consists of a decent scrum (though Kayser really ought to start) and a capable back three. Elsewhere they are pretty clueless, especially the coaching staff.

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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So, any last-minute predictions on how the Six Nations is going to finish today? Ireland are in the box seat, surely?!

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# 5713

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I thought Wales would win in Rome, but their second half, even with that last-gasp Italian reply gives them a serious chance of the title.

I make them favourite now, so all my coworkers will be happy on Monday.

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L'organist
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# 17338

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Just pray that Dan Biggar's failure to tackle doesn't cost us the championship...

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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Oh well, looks like Wales won't win it after all. Ireland have thrashed Scotland, who weren't much better than Italy, so England's main hope must be that France are as generous as Italy and Scotland.

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Sipech
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# 16870

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Bloody hell, that was an astonishing day of rugby. There were so many small moments that seemingly conspired to grant Ireland their barely-deserved win. Stuart Hogg's drop gave them the points advantage and the wrongful awarding of the French try (the one where the guy had a foot out of play and dropped it) turned out to be pivotal.

Entertaining, but ultimately heartbreaking and frustrating. [Waterworks]

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L'organist
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# 17338

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Actually the French guy didn't have his foot in touch before the ball was down - there were at least 4 replays that showed that. As for control of the ball - his hand was on it when it touched the ground so the try was awarded.

Look, the English played well but the French also started to come good; and don't forget the 9 points (3 conversions and a penalty) the French gave away because Plisson was having an off day.

Plus Lawes should have been at least yellow carded for the high spear tackle on Plisson.

Ireland are champions - yes, the Scots could have put up a better show of it but they didn't.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Jonah the Whale

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# 1244

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Actually the French guy didn't have his foot in touch before the ball was down - there were at least 4 replays that showed that. As for control of the ball - his hand was on it when it touched the ground so the try was awarded.

I agree with this, and I am an an England supporter. I am still breathless. I watched 160 minutes of rugby and saw 170 points scored (I missed that dull, low-scoring Scotland-Ireland game).

What I want to know is why don't England, Ireland and Wales always play like they need to win by 20 points or more. Can't they just pretend they need to win by a huge margin?

[ 21. March 2015, 20:18: Message edited by: Jonah the Whale ]

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Plus Lawes should have been at least yellow carded for the high spear tackle on Plisson.

It wasn't high and it wasn't a spear tackle, but apart from that, you're spot on.

If you want to make a case for a yellow card for being late then you would have more chance. You'd still be wrong, but you would be closer to being right! [Smile]

But at the end of the day, England scored enough points to win it. They just turned the ball over and forgot to tackle once or twice too often and gifted France too many points. Too bad.

Thoroughly entertaining day though.

[Edited for code. [Hot and Hormonal] ]

[ 21. March 2015, 20:20: Message edited by: Imaginary Friend ]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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I'd like to add a word for the referees who, on an utterly chaotic day made far fewer errors than the players.

Noted too that Nigel Owens was ref for the England - France match, Steve Walsh having retired: there are mixed messages about how much notice Steve Walsh gave, but communication wasn't the best point of his refereeing either.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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