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Source: (consider it) Thread: The game that batters: the rugby thread
Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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It's hard to know what you can do, short of changing the rules of the game so that size, strength, and speed are not rewarded in the way that they are now. But that would mean the rugby isn't really rugby anymore. [Frown]

And let's face it, the paying public are also partly to blame. We love big "hits" and competitive breakdowns and marauding fifteen stone centres.

One possibility might be to move to a thirteen player game. That would provide a bit more space so that nimbleness and acceleration are favoured over strength and power. Or we could all just watch sevens?

I don't know, I don't see a straightforward solution,

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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I'm still trying to resolve the risk of brain injury with the rules of the game but for those who like to watch the game, Boxing Day sees Cardiff Blues play Newport Dragons and Edinburgh play Glasgow Warriors. These derbies are usually far more tasty than any roast turkey.
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L'organist
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I'll agree that - in fact the lads and self are toying with the idea of making the pilgrimage to see the Blues-Dragons match.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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BRISTOL WIIIIIIIINNNNNNNN!!!!!!! [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee] [Overused] [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Og: Thread Killer
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# 3200

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
I'm still trying to resolve the risk of brain injury with the rules of the game but for those who like to watch the game, Boxing Day sees Cardiff Blues play Newport Dragons and Edinburgh play Glasgow Warriors. These derbies are usually far more tasty than any roast turkey.

I watched a good bit of those two and the Munster Leinster match and was thoroughly entertained. The Worcester Bristol match was another matter.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Imaginary Friend

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quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
The Worcester Bristol match was another matter.

Well, if the ref insists on ruining the game with an idiotic red card then what do you expect? [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
The Worcester Bristol match was another matter.

Well, if the ref insists on ruining the game with an idiotic red card then what do you expect? [Biased]
We nearly had that at Twickenham where JP Doyle showed a red to Jonny May before changing it to the intended yellow. It was an entertaining game though with Glaws unlucky not to get more than a losing bonus point.
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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
BRISTOL WIIIIIIIINNNNNNNN!!!!!!! [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee] [Overused] [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

Bristol win again!!!!. An away win, at Sale.

In other news elsewhere in the Premiership, Leicester have dismissed Richard Cockerill, their long-time coach. Leicester hasn't looked a happy place for a while, with Parling, Salvi and Waldrom all leaving for Creamtealand in the last few years.

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Imaginary Friend

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Sadly, Worcester also beat Quins so we're still bottom of the table. But maybe, just maybe, we'll make the relegation scrap competitive.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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betjemaniac
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I appreciate it's the *dark side* but I'm not sure there's room or a need on the ship for a separate thread for the Northern Union.... Please can any closet leagies on here take a minute to mourn the passing of Bradford Bulls, liquidated this afternoon, to say nothing of the salaries of their players and back office staff?

4 weeks from the start of the season. I suspect some fancy footwork may see them back in some form but it will take a minor miracle sadly.

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And is it true? For if it is....

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Sioni Sais
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Many years ago a work colleague played for the then Bradford Northern. He also played Rugby Union under another name (as was then necessary), but had to stop playing 'League when he got an unlimited ban. He didn't say what he had done, so it must have been pretty bad.
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betjemaniac
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Many years ago a work colleague played for the then Bradford Northern. He also played Rugby Union under another name (as was then necessary), but had to stop playing 'League when he got an unlimited ban. He didn't say what he had done, so it must have been pretty bad.

Quite - League was always much more forgiving usually.... It's not "proper" rugby (although a statement like that would get me lynched along the M62), but I love it all the same.

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And is it true? For if it is....

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Please can any closet leagies on here take a minute to mourn the passing of Bradford Bulls, liquidated this afternoon, to say nothing of the salaries of their players and back office staff?

I'm not really a closet Leaguey, but I do find it very disheartening that an established club in one of England's premier sports can't stay in business. Sometimes I hate the modern world.

[Frown] [Frown] [Frown]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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rolyn
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Good rugby today with some close matches.
I see that French rugby has turned to fielding the big beefed-up players and came close to beating England at their own game.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Good rugby today with some close matches.
I see that French rugby has turned to fielding the big beefed-up players and came close to beating England at their own game.

England started last season's Six Nations slowly with a narrow win over Scotland so this, even though it was at Twickenham, was always going to be awkward. As you say France's starting eight was picked for power, size and strength but they couldn't last the full eighty minutes, and England's bench was stronger than France's.

Eddie Jones must be thinking seriously about Farrell starting at 10, as Ford wasn't convincing, with Daly or Te'o starting alongside Joseph. Lozowski's time can't be far off but I wouldn't start him in Cardiff!

Before I forget, congratulations to Scotland and I expect Wales to give Italy a bit of a pasting: good sides have come badly unstuck at Cardiff.

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rolyn
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I think Farrell has stood the test of time, got his temper under control and takes the knocks.
Like you say the heavy French players were only really good for the first half. Maybe the Jones' tactic was to give them a runaround. A bit nerve racking with the new tackling rule, watching them power through leg tackles and having time to off load. England could easily have gone a couple tries down before half time.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Piglet
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I didn't see the match (over here they don't really go for sports that don't involve either sticks or body armour), but ...

Scotland 27 - Ireland 22. That'll do nicely. [Yipee]

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alto n a soprano who can read music

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Imaginary Friend

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So, wins for England, Scotland and Wales this weekend. The big game is next weekend, right Sioni? [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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betjemaniac
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England were bloody awful, but went back into 1990s mode and ground out a win through sheer drudgery. Quite apart from anything else, despite the best efforts of the French, no one can outdo England for mind numbing route one persistence and boring the opposition into submission. And I say that as an England "fan."

I thought Italy were good value for the first 60 minutes against Wales (who ran rings round them in the last quarter but it does show that Italy are making steady progress in the right direction).

Really happy for Scotland - I've been saying (including on here) for about the 3 years that their team has somehow been less than the sum of its parts but it's finally clicking.

Of course, the real action was up at Billesley Common where Moseley put Rosslyn Park to the sword 36-20. It was extremely cold, but I can now feel my fingers enough to type again.

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Sioni Sais
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I'd suggest that a big match is next week in Cardiff. Scotland's win has blown the competition open. I still make England favourites next week because Wales can only win if they make the most of home advantage (very likely), play out of their skins (possible) and England are worse than on Saturday (is that possible??).

In short, it's a two-horse race and as on Saturday I reckon England's 23 will beat Wales 23, although there might be nothing between the starting 15s. Any side that brings Jamie George, James Haskell, Ben Te'o and Jack Nowell on after an hour is going to gain something. It looks like Mako Vunipola could be back, at least for part of the game.

Elsewhere it's very sad to read of the death of Joost Van der Westhuizen at 45. Possibly overshadowed by Jonah Lomu and now they have both gone.

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betjemaniac
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:

Elsewhere it's very sad to read of the death of Joost Van der Westhuizen at 45. Possibly overshadowed by Jonah Lomu and now they have both gone.

Just thinking about that tackle VDW put in on Lomu in the 1995 world cup final makes me hurt. Desperately sad end, but he did a lot to raise awareness of MND - not least in RSA.

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Sioni Sais
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A couple of changes by Eddie Jones for England's team against Wales. I think they are both in response to the opposition: Jack Nowell is a better defender than Jonny May and he'll probably be up against George North, while Jack Clifford gets in because England need desperately pace against Warburton and (especially) Tipuric. Tom Wood didn't show anything special last week and I don't think Haskell can manage more than half a game just yet.

I reckon it'll be a nail-biter again. England should win with what is on the field but anyone who has been in the stadium, supporting England against Wales at Cardiff, knows that the crowd is worth at least ten points to Wales.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

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iamchristianhearmeroar
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Even given England and Wales's form going into this match I daren't daren't daren't hope that England will have an easy time of it. Something about the Millennium Stadium (or whatever it is called now) seems to spook the English. Dreadful record there, but keeping fingers crossed for tomorrow.

I think we'll really miss Billy in the back row tomorrow. Plenty of potential in our back row but they're going to need to play out of their skins to keep up with the Welsh 6 and 7.

Bring it on!

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My blog: http://alastairnewman.wordpress.com/

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Barnabas62
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England squeak home again! They really haven't played their best stuff yet but seem to be getting better at turning the tables.

I think the Irish might just end the winning streak. But a victory in Wales is always something to celebrate!

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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iamchristianhearmeroar
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I'm utterly flabbergasted. I did not see England getting that back. Brilliant self belief lads, brilliant! Got to do better at the breakdown.

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My blog: http://alastairnewman.wordpress.com/

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St. Gwladys
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B****r!

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"I say - are you a matelot?"
"Careful what you say sir, we're on board ship here"
From "New York Girls", Steeleye Span, Commoners Crown (Voiced by Peter Sellers)

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Baptist Trainfan
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But what a magnificent game!
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L'organist
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What St. Gladwys said.

Why didn't we take the points when we had the penalty in the first half? WHY?

This is a house of mourning [Waterworks]

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Imaginary Friend

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[Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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rolyn
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

Why didn't we take the points when we had the penalty in the first half? WHY?

Playing in front of their home crowd?
Same with the disastrous late clearance kick into the middle of the park and gifting England's winning try. If the ball had gone straight to touch those last 5 mins would have elapsed with no further scoring.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Imaginary Friend

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Yep. And if my aunt had a penis she'd be my uncle.m [Biased] [Big Grin] [Roll Eyes] [Yipee]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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L'organist
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And you wonder why the other home nations have a problem with England rugby supporters!

At least Eddie Jones can blame his lack of knowledge on probably not knowing the history of these islands...

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Piglet
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quote:
Originally posted by St. Gwladys:
B****r!

What she said. [Frown]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
And you wonder why the other home nations have a problem with England rugby supporters!

At least Eddie Jones can blame his lack of knowledge on probably not knowing the history of these islands...

That is not the least of his virtues: he doesn't have the hang ups of too many Englishmen, coaches, players and supporters.
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Imaginary Friend

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What? The "hang-up" of absolutely insisting that, whatever else might happen, you cannot, must not, and shall not lose to Wales? [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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We haven't reached the halfway point of the Six Nations and the Great and the Good are already making pitches about who should be in the Lions tour party and captain it.

One of the subjects is that Alun Wyn Jones has the support of three former Lions captains to lead the NZ tour. The problem here is that there is so much strength at lock that I'm not sure AWJ is worth a place as a starter. England can pick any two from four and there are Scots and Irishmen worth a place too. Gatland has been singing the praises of Sam Warburton for his post-captaincy performances and whether this is out of order or not he is spot-on: how Wales lost to England when they stole so much ball in turnovers is a mystery to me, and Sam Warburton played a big part in that.

In fact, there's a chance that if England do win the Six Nations, grand slam or not, they will provide comparatively few players for the Lions, and some of those who do start for the Lions could well be occupying "second-places" for their countries right now.

So, to join in with the fun, here's my starting 15 for the British and Irish Lions:

Mako Vunipola
Jamie George
Tadgh Furlong
Jonny Grey
Maro Itoje
Sam Warburton
Billy Vunipola
Justin Tipuric

Conor Murray
Finn Russell
George North
Robbie Henshaw
Jamie Joseph
Leigh Halfpenny
Liam Williams

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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betjemaniac
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Meanwhile, over in t'other code....

Massive congratulations to the Pie Eaters and the Wire for a 2-0 clean sweep of whatever the World Club Series is calling itself this week. Cronulla and Brisbane never even got out of the blocks!

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And is it true? For if it is....

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Sioni Sais
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England's latest code convert, Ben Te'o makes his first start on Sunday against Italy in an England side that is I believe designed to a) win the game b) get a try bonus point and c) rack up as high a score as possible. Te'o for Joseph will add power, May for Nowell will add pace while Danny Care will get the ball to George Ford a good deal quicker than Ben Youngs. I would have liked to have seen Watson or Nowell at fullback too.

I'll be very surprised to see Italy break their duck against England but England must be patient. Wales v Scotland will be tight (I've seen some classic contests between them) and Ireland could win by a distance, depending on how many Frenchmen are on the field in the last quarter.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Piglet
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
... Wales v Scotland will be tight ...

Really? [Big Grin]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Japes

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I enjoyed the Scotland v Wales match very much. Especially as I didn't have to spend the last bit of it in agonies that they were going to throw away a tight lead...

[Yipee]

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Blog may or may not be of any interest.

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Imaginary Friend

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Bristol 12 - 11 Bath.

Fucking have that!!!!!!!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sandemaniac
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# 12829

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
Bristol 12 - 11 Bath.

Fucking have that!!!!!!!! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Yipee] [Yipee] [Yipee]

The same could be said of England vs Italy at half time! I almost didn't bother watching as it was such a foregone conclusion. Well, that was wrong.

AG

[ 26. February 2017, 15:00: Message edited by: Sandemaniac ]

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Piglet:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
... Wales v Scotland will be tight ...

Really? [Big Grin]
It was until Wales kicked to the corner instead of kicking for goal early in the second half. That would have given them a 16-9 lead. As things turned out, they didn't score again in that half, hence Scottish joy.

Italy meanwhile gave England an awful scare and England did themselves no favours with nine penalties in the first half (three each to Dan Cole and Nathan Hughes - watch out guys). I think Eddie Jones and one or two cool heads did a good job at half-time, although I would have given Danny Care ten minutes more as he had Italy on toast.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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L'organist
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# 17338

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We were woeful against Scotland [Waterworks]

And what the hell was Dan Biggar playing at with all the histrionics? He should learn to suck it up, get the bloody kicks done, tackles made and have a go at persuading AWJ that the quixotic notion of 'winning pretty' by kicking for the corner is fine when you have a 30 point lead and 10 minutes to go, nNOT when you're in a tight game.

Very much enjoyed the first half of England-Italy - especially the moment when James Haskell was asking the ref how England should cope with the Italian tactic of refusing to ruck [Killing me]

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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Does anyone else think this indicates that Dylan Hartley should no longer captain England? He's right in what he says, but James Haskell was articulating the problem on the field while Hartley looked clueless. Moreover his place isn't certain, and he is one of the first to be replaced in a game, making me wonder if England should select a new captain sooner rather than later. It's difficult to select a captain as few places are absolutely nailed down. Joe Launchbury looks likely but when George Kruis returns and Robshaw is fit do we continue with the Lawes and Itoje combo? I suppose it's a nice problem to have.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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...The season after Bristol finally make it out...

Championship promotion playoffs axed.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
...The season after Bristol finally make it out...

Championship promotion playoffs axed.

I noticed that and thought much the same as you did. I'll be really impressed if the additional funding makes Championship sides better contenders and financially secure.

[ 04. March 2017, 16:34: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

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betjemaniac
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# 17618

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
...The season after Bristol finally make it out...

Championship promotion playoffs axed.

I noticed that and thought much the same as you did. I'll be really impressed if the additional funding makes Championship sides better contenders and financially secure.
Which it won't. Also, if we're to believe The Rugby Paper, the Championship clubs have decided that from now on the bottom end of the division will be settled by a playoff between the club coming last, and the winners of National 1.

Given that every club in the Championship receives over £500,000 of central funding, that's just as cynical as they've spent years accusing the Premiership of being.

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And is it true? For if it is....

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betjemaniac
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# 17618

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for info, central funding for National 1 amounts to "some" contribution "towards" travel expenses. And that's it.

So you've got clubs like Mose, Cov, Plymouth, who are running large squads, analysts, banqueting facilities, etc at one end (and entirely out of their own pockets, and teams playing on roped off pitches at the other.

Rugby Union in this country is a farce.

I'm genuinely beginning to wish for a return to amateurism, the abolition of leagues, re-introduction of merit tables, the RFU Knock-out Cup and fixtures worked out by club secretaries based on their own notions of their peer group.

Fingers crossed.

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And is it true? For if it is....

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Guaranteed way to beat the All Blacks, that... [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

Posts: 9455 | From: Left a bit... Right a bit... | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



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