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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: The game that batters: the rugby thread
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
It really is the game that batters. England have sixteen of the Italy match squad out injured (including five starters) so Eddie Jones has changed the training plan. This isn't the first time he has done so: the ill-fated "judo training" a while back put a few on the injured list and it looks like EJ's training scheme causes more injuries than it prevents. I'm all for vigour and contact but you can't play 30+ games and train twice a week from August to May without getting broken, possibly permanently.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
The Welsh injury list gets longer and longer.
- Dan Biggar - out for at least the first 3 matches
- Rhys Priestland - out for the whole 6 Nations
- Rhys Webb - sidelined through injury for ??2 matches
- Jonathan Davies - out for the whole thing due to a foot injury
- Sam Warburton - out following surgery
- Dan Lydiate - out after injuring his knee against South Africa in early December
- Taulupe Falatau - may be named in the squad but knee injury likely to mean he misses first 3 games
- Liam Williams - ongoing row with Saracens over their playing him when he was nursing an injury: now out of the 6 Nations
How on earth is Warren Gatland meant to name a side, never mind an in-depth squad, with an injury list like that?
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
That doesn't include tight-five forwards. I think Kenny Owens and Jake Ball are out too, maybe more.
Wales and Ireland just don't have the depth that England and France have, while Scotland and Italy have fewer players still playing at the top level. England could leave the entire Italy match squad at home and select an alternative one that would be competitive although it probably wouldn't win more than a couple of games, let alone the championship.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Well, that was gratifying! 2 tries within the first ten minutes and a final score of 34-7.
I'll admit I was worried because of our injury list but the side Wales put on the field played a blinder.
Meanwhile, the match in Paris was shocking - not helped by appalling weather. Johnny Sexton's drop-goal in injury time was epic, but the French must be wondering where they go now.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
There are times when England are the most frustrating team on earth. After scoring from the first opportunity in such a way that few teams could have prevented they conceded so many penalties that cost them possibly three more tries before half-time. Then again, Italy conceded a shedload too, particularly their hooker who had a bad day all round.
You could say that these things even themselves out, but better side don't conceded so many penalties. Just as well we've got them at Twickenham this year.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Eddie Jones is now trying to psych-out the Welsh team, suggesting that Patchell isn't up to the task of wearing the number 10 shirt, going so far as to say his team-mates doubt he can perform at Twickenham.
Then, just in case anyone was in any doubt what he was up to, he claims that our captain, Alun Wyn Jones, interfered with the taking of the Scots' conversion of their try last Saturday, saying he has reported the so-called "incident" to World Rugby. Mr Jones should watch last Saturday's Wales-Scotland match properly, rather than from behind the sofa: then he'd see that AWJ was not interfering with Finn Russell but was still bent double and trying to catch his breath after chasing back up the pitch.
The message we can all take from this West of Offa's Dyke is that Jones and his men are less than confident about tomorrow's encounter at Twickenham - memories of 2015 maybe? ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
I've seen those comments too and can only suggest that EJ has been opening his mouth and letting the wind blow his tongue around (as my mother used to say).
Patchell and Alan Wyn Jones were probably Wales outstanding players last week. This should fire them up nicely for Saturday's game!
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
You know you've been robbed when Clive Woodward and Jonny Wilkinson both agree that Jerome Garces and the TMO got it wrong and should have given a try. Disgraceful.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
You know you've been robbed when Clive Woodward and Jonny Wilkinson both agree that Jerome Garces and the TMO got it wrong and should have given a try. Disgraceful.
Absolutely it was a grounding. But it was also a knock on just before so right decision for completely the wrong reason.
Disappointing from the officials but Wales weren't robbed.
If you Don't believe me, check the replay; finger tips on to knee...
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
You know you've been robbed when Clive Woodward and Jonny Wilkinson both agree that Jerome Garces and the TMO got it wrong and should have given a try.
Robbed of 5 points quite possibly, not necessarily the match without Halfpenny to claim the extra 2.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Actually AFZ the rule states that if the ball comes off the knee then it is NOT deemed to be knocked forward. A ball that is touched, even if just by fingertips, before striking the same player's knee and then going on to hit the ground is therefore not a knock-on.
Watch again and listen to the TMO - he explicitly states that it wasn't a knock-on.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
The Scotland game was a bit of a cracker in the end - well worth leaving DIY duties for.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Actually AFZ the rule states that if the ball comes off the knee then it is NOT deemed to be knocked forward. A ball that is touched, even if just by fingertips, before striking the same player's knee and then going on to hit the ground is therefore not a knock-on.
Watch again and listen to the TMO - he explicitly states that it wasn't a knock-on.
Hi L'organist. I my be wrong but according to World Rugby the law doesn't state that at all. The TMO also explicitly stated that the ball wasn't grounded so I don't quite see your point.
Ultimately the officials decision is final, and we can see that on the scoreboard but I stand by what I said, I think the TMO got both bits wrong. In terms of Evans - it was only looked at once, whilst the grounding was looked at several times. Having watched the replay a few times, I can see that the ball came off Evan's hand as well as his knee...
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Even if you accept that Steff Evans' fingertips touched the ball (which is unclear unless we can have access to film from the other side) it is irrelevant since the ball went backwards from him, not forwards: so no knock-on.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Even if you accept that Steff Evans' fingertips touched the ball (which is unclear unless we can have access to film from the other side) it is irrelevant since the ball went backwards from him, not forwards: so no knock-on.
It's really not unclear. If you look at the video (BBC Website); there is no doubt it came off his fingers. Fingers, knee or knee, fingers is less clear.
Either way, you seem to want it both ways; the TMO either was wrong about the grounding and NOT looking at the potential Knock-on or he wasn't. You can't have it that the grounding was a wrong call without looking at the Evans part as well. I fully accept that I may be wrong, but having looked at the video really closely, to me, it looks like a grounding AND a knock-on...
OTOH, most England fans still think England scored a try in the 2007 World Cup Final...
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Even if you accept that Steff Evans' fingertips touched the ball (which is unclear unless we can have access to film from the other side) it is irrelevant since the ball went backwards from him, not forwards: so no knock-on.
It's really not unclear. If you look at the video (BBC Website); there is no doubt it came off his fingers. Fingers, knee or knee, fingers is less clear.
Either way, you seem to want it both ways; the TMO either was wrong about the grounding and NOT looking at the potential Knock-on or he wasn't. You can't have it that the grounding was a wrong call without looking at the Evans part as well. I fully accept that I may be wrong, but having looked at the video really closely, to me, it looks like a grounding AND a knock-on...
OTOH, most England fans still think England scored a try in the 2007 World Cup Final...
AFZ
And England should have had a penalty try in the 1991 final, but a Welsh referee gave a penalty instead for a deliberate knock-on! England kicked the penalty, but that made it 12-6,instead of 12-9.
Worse still, the knockdown was by an Australian.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Even if you accept that Steff Evans' fingertips touched the ball (which is unclear unless we can have access to film from the other side) it is irrelevant since the ball went backwards from him, not forwards: so no knock-on.
It's really not unclear. If you look at the video (BBC Website); there is no doubt it came off his fingers. Fingers, knee or knee, fingers is less clear.
Either way, you seem to want it both ways; the TMO either was wrong about the grounding and NOT looking at the potential Knock-on or he wasn't. You can't have it that the grounding was a wrong call without looking at the Evans part as well. I fully accept that I may be wrong, but having looked at the video really closely, to me, it looks like a grounding AND a knock-on...
OTOH, most England fans still think England scored a try in the 2007 World Cup Final...
AFZ
And England should have had a penalty try in the 1991 final, but a Welsh referee gave a penalty instead for a deliberate knock-on! England kicked the penalty, but that made it 12-6,instead of 12-9.
Worse still, the knockdown was by an Australian.
Yep, I remember it well. David Campese...
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
AFZ
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
World Rugby have looked at what happened on Saturday; they have confirmed that the TMO made a mistake and that Garces should have been told he could award try.
Of course it doesn't mean Wales would have won the game but ... it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
World Rugby have looked at what happened on Saturday; they have confirmed that the TMO made a mistake and that Garces should have been told he could award try.
Of course it doesn't mean Wales would have won the game but ... it leaves a bitter taste in the mouth.
Makes me wonder. How often have World Rugby carried out post-mortems of this nature? The game could be facing a shortage of referees if this becomes the done thing. A number of respected cricket umpires have quit since video replays were introduced and those who have taken their place haven't been half as good.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Firenze
Ordinary decent pagan
# 619
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Posted
Well, there’ll be a high time in the old town tonight (and the New Town, Corstorphine, Niddrie Mains, Morningside, Leith...)
Posts: 17302 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Jun 2001
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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829
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Posted
There'll be plenty of human flotsam drifting in the gutters in the morn!
That was not what anyone expected - least of all the England team, by the looks of them. The Scotland who almost beat the ABs turned up again, and Finn Russell in particular was electric.
I've had to chain the Knotweed to an anvil to stop her floating off, she may not sleep for days.
It was a bloody good watch, too. Perhaps not quite as gripping as the finish of Wales-Ireland, but I can't see there'll be many complaints north of Berwick.
AG
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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Well, this Welsh household was a little down after the result from Dublin but greatly cheered at the result from Edinburgh. Well done Scotland!
A visiting friend of the children (a rugby-playing Kiwi they met on their travels) has watched the previous matches as well as todays, and we found his comments about the Murrayfield match interesting: first he noted how fit Nigel Owens must be - evidenced by his keeping up with the action better than most other referees - and then he remarked that, in his opinion, the difference between the previous matches and today's Scotland-England tie was that the refereeing was tighter, better and fairer. Interesting?
Anyway, a few drams of the Scottish nectar have been sunk here this evening.
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Well, this Welsh household was a little down after the result from Dublin but greatly cheered at the result from Edinburgh. Well done Scotland!.
Rather like England and Germany in soccer tournaments, not always easy to discern between the joy of one winning and the other getting beaten. ![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
England were beat fair and square. The way England were being dispossessed at the breakdowns from the start didn't bode well for Jones' squad.
Ireland's Grand Slam hopes will be heightened having watched that performance.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
All that puffing and grunting in scrummaging practice against the Georgians did England no favours at all. The Scots were so much better at the breakdown that it wasn't until Sam Underhill came on that England really competed. England's three lock forwards scheme doesn't look so good now and they may want to have Itoje on the bench to come on with 25-30 minutes to go.
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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