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Source: (consider it) Thread: The beautiful game - the boys are back
Hedgehog

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# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
And Iceland come up against Ronaldo FC tonight. That should be good too!

Yes. Yes it was!

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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His petulant comments after the game were the icing on the cake! Well played Iceland: Very well played. Now bring on Hungary!

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Hedgehog

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Hopefully this is just a hypothetical, but what would happen if, following today's game, the Russian fans became disruptive and Russia got disqualified? What would happen to the group? Slovakia and England have played Russia, but Wales has not. Would the games against Slovakia and England be voided (so they both lose the points they earned)? Or would the unplayed game against Wales be considered a forfeit and Wales awarded 3 points?

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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Interesting question, which is addressed at length here.

Basically, UEFA will cross the bridge when it comes to it. It would be easy enough if only top two group teams advanced, as in past years. Knock off everyone's Russia result, treat it as a three team group, top two advance.

BUT the expanded format means that the top four out of the six third place teams get in to the knockout round, so if you nullify the group B third place team's Russia points, it puts that team at a potential disadvantage against third place teams that have points from three games.

One proposal that makes sense to me is that you knock off every group third place team's result against the fourth place team, and then rank based on what is left. That said, I can easily see that system resulting in a team that would have gotten through under the old system getting sent home on the new system. In a worst case scenario for UEFA, how's Ireland going to handle getting majorly hosed by UEFA twice in a decade?

Basically, UEFA had better hope the Russian fans get their act together.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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So long as they rule that yesterday's game was okay (so far as I know, the only unruliness at the stadium was one flare let off after Russia scored) then I think UEFA are going to be okay. Even if there is trouble at the Russia v Wales game, UEFA can let the result stand, and the very strong likelihood is that Russia will be in last place in the group and knocked out anyway.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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I expect UEFA are praying hard that Russia will be knocked out. The problem is, will their fans go home? I doubt it. Maybe they could join the Légion Étrangère. I gather many Russians already serve.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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Four points to England probably gets them through, right? Even if they lose to Slovakia and Wales beat Russia, four points is probably enough for top four third place teams.

I certainly hope Deschamps remembers who saved his ass next time he thinks about leaving Griesmann on the bench, by the way.

And a big chance for the USA tonight. Win against Ecuador and they are in the semis, with two guaranteed matches against quality teams, and a likely shot at a true measuring stick game against Argentina with Leo Messi firing on all cylinders. I think it is a winnable game for the USA, although it could go either way. A few weeks ago it was 1-0 USA, which gives me enough confidence to pick the USA for the win.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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rolyn
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# 16840

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A good result for England. Glad I didn't watch it Live as it looked the usual heart- stopping performance.
At least the last minute goal went our way this time. Hodgson's relief was immense.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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England's win was welcome. I was at work, an Englishman in Wales, so there was a lot of grumpiness about. Happily Wales are still in with a chance.

Northern Ireland's win was quite something though. Solid performance all round. With England v Wales it brought back memories of the old Home Nations Championship.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

Real to you
# 186

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Cristiano Ronaldo failing really is one of the most beautiful things in football.

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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It was rather rich of him to make fun of someone for over celebrating, given his penchant for ripping his shirt off at the least provocation. (Granted, if I looked like that, I'd probably be ripping my shirt off all the time too!)

I have a feeling Iceland has a shot at a win and advancement against Austria. It was a shame to lose today, though. (Edit: or tie rather. It just feels like a loss to come that close and give up two points on an own goal.)

And the USA-Argentina semi is all set up. My only hope lies in the fact that Argentina has a recent history of finding ways to not win in major tournaments. But as they say, that's why they play them.

[ 19. June 2016, 02:41: Message edited by: Og, King of Bashan ]

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I see Wales has begun its inexorable march to the title!

I see no point in revising my earlier prediction. [Big Grin] Must get my snacks ready for the Wales-Iceland final...

Meanwhile, in the Copa, Mexico did a truly spectacular flame-out. If you are going to crash out, do it in a way that everybody will remember!

USA-Argentina tomorrow night. That could get messy (and, yes, I know the pun is just sitting there, but I refuse to use it).

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I see Wales has begun its inexorable march to the title!

I see no point in revising my earlier prediction. [Big Grin] Must get my snacks ready for the Wales-Iceland final...


There's a chance Iceland could play England in the last 16 and I wouldn't rule anything out after that.

I wasn't surprised that Roy Hodgson changed England's team - three games in nine days is a lot of running - but some of those coming in simply weren't match-fit and one wonders why they in France at all.

Roy has also said that "We couldn't have done more" which shows he has fallen for the old English failing that passion and effort can overcome a lack of skill and tactical nous.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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So, does yesterday's vote mean that England are out of the Euros now? [Biased]

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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I see another competition has become extremely dire in the knock out rounds as teams.

Well Wales and NI was always going to be a poor affair but Croatia and Portugal has so much promise.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Imaginary Friend:
So, does yesterday's vote mean that England are out of the Euros now? [Biased]

Yes.

The England players voted to be out of the Euros, and now seem somewhat puzzled that they are being asked to go home. They are explaining now that they would be happy to stay in the tournament if they could just renegotiate some of the rules of the game. Like, for example, maybe they should be spotted a few goals at the start of every game.

And Iceland moves on.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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To me, it was one of those upsets that you could see coming from a mile away. Iceland was having a surprisingly good tournament, England was having a typical middling tournament, it just seemed bound to happen.

And now on to the quarter finals. I'm sure we don't need to remind any Germany fans around here (ahem...Hedgehog...ahem) that Italy have never lost a tournament match to Germany. Just throwing it out there, you know. [Two face]

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Hedgehog

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It has been a tournament of surprises. Maybe Germany can surprise everybody by actually beating Italy for a change!

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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I have to confess that there was cheering chez Piglet when we heard about the Iceland-England result (even though D. is English).

I love to see the little guy win, and if he's from somewhere with a sideways cross on its flag, it warms the cockles of this northerly little piglet's heart.

Well done Iceland! [Yipee]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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Mr Clingford
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# 7961

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This was posted on another forum:
"We let them score a couple of goals as a protest. We didn't think they'd actually win the match..."

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Ne'er cast a clout till May be out.

If only.

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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At least Woy has got something right. I wonder if there any Australian football coachess around? Eddie Jones has done a marvellous job to turn our good rugby team into one that can "win ugly" and his positive "Aussie-ness" has played a big part.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

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We only have one and we need him.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Sandemaniac
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# 12829

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Neither Celtic Knotweed nor I are football fans,I think between us we had watched some zero minutes of the Euros thus far, but as we are in Reykjavik we couldn't really not go to the fan zone.

It was as much a bear pit as you might imagine, helped by a commentator whose voice rose about four octaves as the match went on. The guy in the crowd with a drum leading the Oo"Oo! Clapclap" chant was fished out and brought on stage to do it from in front of the big screens and the place just erupted when the final whistle went. I was gutted when England got a penalty so early, thought they would kill the game, so went as crazy as the locals when the equaliser went in.

What a night!

AG

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Og: Thread Killer
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# 3200

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England seems to be also losing at the whole "learning lessons from that mess" thing.

A lot of "how could we lose to that country" instead of "why did we only win 1 game in 4?"

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Callan
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# 525

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quote:
Originally posted by Mr Clingford:
This was posted on another forum:
"We let them score a couple of goals as a protest. We didn't think they'd actually win the match..."

The people behind ordinance survey tweeted that they refused to confirm or deny that they had allowed England to access their data in order to find where the opposition goals were. A somewhat niche Jeremy Corbyn joke, but bleakly amusing to the cognoscenti.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I see Wales has begun its inexorable march to the title!

I see no point in revising my earlier prediction. [Big Grin] Must get my snacks ready for the Wales-Iceland final...
I still see no point in revising....

Seriously, Wales are playing out of their minds right now. The take-down of Belgium was truly impressive.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Ariel
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# 58

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Hurrah for Wales! [Yipee]

Wales for the Cup [Big Grin]

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L'organist
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# 17338

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English FA take note of what happened in Lille last night ... [Biased]

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

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Wales have got a good chance of getting to the final.

Both they and Portugal are teams built around a star player, and Gareth Bale is on better form than Cristiano Ronaldo.

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Fearfully and wonderfully mad
Love the dinner, hate the din.
ن
blog

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by balaam:
Wales have got a good chance of getting to the final.

Both they and Portugal are teams built around a star player, and Gareth Bale is on better form than Cristiano Ronaldo.

I'd look at the rest of the team and Wales "other ten" are better too, despite the lack of star names. James Chester and Ashley Williams were immense yesterday against Lukaku & co. Portugal depend on Ronaldo (and Ronaldo depends on Ronaldo too). Bale knows how good he is but he serves the team. Wales need to put the shackles on Ronaldo but they did a good job on Hazard.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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After the anticlimax and mediocrity of the first quarter-final and the excitement and passion of the second, we now a true heavyweight contest in which Germany (World Champions) play Italy (who have never lost to Germany in the European Championships).

A salient fact may be that Italy have no fewer than eleven players on a yellow card while Germany have just five in that situation, which may affect competitiveness.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Imaginary Friend

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# 186

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When do yellow cards from previous games start being ignored?

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"We had a good team on paper. Unfortunately, the game was played on grass."
Brian Clough

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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I think they are wiped out after the quarterfinal.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I think they are wiped out after the quarterfinal.

They count to the semi-finals at least. A couple of Wales' players including the excellent Aaron Ramsey aren't available for their match against Portugal.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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I think that is technically how it works, though. If you pick up the magic number of yellows (is it just 2?) in the quarterfinal match, the penalty is applied and you sit out the next match. However, the accumulated yellows that have not yet reached the magic number are wiped out after the quarter is over. So anybody who was sitting with a single yellow at the end of the quarter will start the semi with none.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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Here is an excerpt from the tournament rules (with deletions indicated by the asterisk row):

quote:
48.01 As a rule, a player who is sent off the field of play is suspended for the next match in the competition. In case of serious offences, the UEFA Control and Disciplinary Body is entitled to augment this punishment, including by extending it to other competitions.

48.02 In case of repeated cautions:

*********

b. in the final tournament, a player is suspended for the next competition match after two cautions in two different matches, as well as after the fourth caution.

***********

48.04 Single cautions from matches in the final tournament expire on completion of the quarter-finals. They are not carried forward to the semi-finals.

48.05 Cautions and pending yellow-card suspensions from the final tournament expire at the end of the competition.



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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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In that case I've been had by the BBC website!

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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Germany finally managed to get by Italy.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Germany finally managed to get by Italy.

For once a penalty shoot-out worth watching. But with Neuer & Buffon in goal that was always likely.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Wales fans will be happy to know that my sole qualification for taking part in a football thread is that the only professional match I've ever attended in my life was Cardiff vs Hereford in 1973 (2-1).

Wales' recent victory got me wondering about how ticket allocation works in a tournament. Do fans buy tickets ahead of time in proportion to their optimism? Or are tickets for specific teams' fans only released for sale once the sides in a given game are known? Or do touts simply sell on their tickets?

(Similar speculation about fans' and teams' hotel accommodation applies).

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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So my dream final (Wales-Iceland) will have to wait for the next tournament.

But that's okay. Wales-Germany offers more scope for appropriate snacks (I actually know something about German cuisine compared to knowing close to nothing about Icelandic cuisine).

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Sandemaniac
Shipmate
# 12829

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Iceland's dream ends, but by Odin what a ride it was! I can get back on with ignoring it again now.

AG AGson

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"It becomes soon pleasantly apparent that change-ringing is by no means merely an excuse for beer" Charles Dickens gets it wrong, 1869

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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Perhaps England were better off losing to Iceland than playing France. It might have turned into one of those 7-1 affairs that put your team into the wilderness for a while. France-Germany should be a classic.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Piglet
Islander
# 11803

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quote:
Originally posted by Sandemaniac:
Iceland's dream ends, but by Odin what a ride it was! I can get back on with ignoring it again now.

AG AGson

[Killing me]

I caught part of the match (including the first of the Iceland goals) before we had to go out. It was pouring with rain, and just as we left the house there was a flash of lightning and a fairly spectacular roll of thunder, and D. said, "That'll be Thor registering his displeasure that the Icelanders are being stuffed by the French". I'm glad to hear they knocked in another goal - they really had nothing to be ashamed of.

Piglet Pigletsðottir

[ 04. July 2016, 03:16: Message edited by: Piglet ]

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I may not be on an island any more, but I'm still an islander.
alto n a soprano who can read music

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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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Welsh dream been undone by a Portugal who finally decided to come out from the locker room.

The final will be tight as often they are.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Welsh dream been undone by a Portugal who finally decided to come out from the locker room.

The final will be tight as often they are.

Someone, if not UEFA, ought to organise a special match (or two) between Wales and Iceland. They have captured the interest of football followers all over the world and the game is definitely on a high in both countries.

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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I was about to say something about how Wales and Iceland proved the complaints about the extended field* wrong. But then I looked back at qualification, and realized that both would have been in in a 16 team format. So good for them.

I'm all in for France at this point, with special hope that Antoine Griezmann seals up the golden boot in the next two games as a karmic reward for staying at Atletico and not taking the money from Chelsea or United.

Please, Lord, don't make me have to chose Portugal over Germany.

*I was certainly one of the skeptics.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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Sigh. My snacks list has been completely shot to heck.

Portugal has not yet made a believer out of me. I figure France to win...possibly also by a 2-0 score.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

Posts: 2653 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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I definitely didn't go far enough in my previous post to say that I called it, so I won't. But that went according to my wishes, at least.

As a former bad defender, I felt for the German defender who got juked out of his boots by Paul Pogba right before he hit the cross that Neuer mishit to set up the second Griezmann goal.

My worry is that Ronaldo is about to back into his second major trophy of the year thanks to a friendly draw and a one-off game against a good but still flawed team.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

Posts: 3133 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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The entertainment value of tomorrow's Final will depend quite a lot on the Ronaldo's form, and how much attention the French team have to lend it.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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