Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
He wants to be admired and adored. If he would only see the path to that state!

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Barnabas62:
If free trade kills jobs at home, protectionism kills jobs all over the world.

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Posted                          

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Originally posted by mousethief:

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
He wants to be admired and adored. If he would only see the path to that state!

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But he primarily wants to be admired and adored by the people directly in front of him at any given moment. Then when he's in front of other people, he wants to be admired and adored by them.

That's why it's so horrific that he has packed his cabinet with white supremacists and big business lackeys and other people whose wants and desires are inimical to the good of our nation and its people. Those are the people he will be "playing to" most of the time. And they're smart enough to play him like a violin by preying on his insecurities.

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Posted                       

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

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Originally posted by Barnabas62:
If free trade kills jobs at home, protectionism kills jobs all over the world.

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If you give me a choice between my job being killed or six jobs in the rest of the world being killed, take a wild guess which one I'll vote for.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

quote:

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Originally posted by Barnabas62:
If free trade kills jobs at home, protectionism kills jobs all over the world.

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If you give me a choice between my job being killed or six jobs in the rest of the world being killed, take a wild guess which one I'll vote for.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Gillmck:
Thanks for all of this ... For more ethical dissection of the US Election, there's a discussion of the result, implications, the role of US evangelicals, that sort of thing here: http://www.smallvoice.org.uk/podcast-extra-the-last-trump/

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Posted                   

quote:

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Originally posted by mr cheesy:

quote:

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Originally posted by Gillmck:
Thanks for all of this ... For more ethical dissection of the US Election, there's a discussion of the result, implications, the role of US evangelicals, that sort of thing here: http://www.smallvoice.org.uk/podcast-extra-the-last-trump/

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I wanted to hate this, but it is actually pretty good. If you could bring some of the ideas and comments from your podcast here to discuss rather than a hit-and-run link, that'd be much more helpful.

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Kwesi:
candidate for all America seeking a miserly 269+1. Feminist without sisters, mother without sons, perpetually buttoned up in a botoxed (?) cocoon.

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Posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
He will do good things, not because he is in any way interested in doing anything in particular, but because otherwise he will go down in history as a Loser President, down there with Millard Fillmore.

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AIUI, Fillmore is known for putting the first bathtub in the White House.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Kwesi:
candidate for all America seeking a miserly 269+1. Feminist without sisters, mother without sons, perpetually buttoned up in a botoxed (?) cocoon.

Kwesi, you made all of one post on the election thread about 2 years ago; faced with the grotesque that is President-elect Donald Trump, this is what you're moved to write?

WTF?

"seeking a miserly 269+1" As if she were carefully trying to avoid winning by more than the barest minimum.

"mother without sons?" Yes, how dare she consider herself a valid candidate - a female whose claim to motherhood consists only of a solitary daughter!

"botoxed (?)" What's with the question mark? You don't know, but can't miss the opportunity to take a swipe at her appearance?

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Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Kwesi:
Dave W

quote:

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Originally posted by Kwesi:
candidate for all America seeking a miserly 269+1. Feminist without sisters, mother without sons, perpetually buttoned up in a botoxed (?) cocoon.

Kwesi, you made all of one post on the election thread about 2 years ago; faced with the grotesque that is President-elect Donald Trump, this is what you're moved to write?

WTF?

"seeking a miserly 269+1" As if she were carefully trying to avoid winning by more than the barest minimum.

"mother without sons?" Yes, how dare she consider herself a valid candidate - a female whose claim to motherhood consists only of a solitary daughter!

"botoxed (?)" What's with the question mark? You don't know, but can't miss the opportunity to take a swipe at her appearance?

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269+1. The office which Hilary Clinton was seeking was that of President of the United States, to represent all Americans. That vision seemed absent from campaign tactics aimed to mobilise identified gender and ethnic categories to achieve narrowly what was necessary to win. Her reference to “deplorables" to described supporters of Trump betrayed the mindset, just as Romney indicated the Republicans could forget 47 percent of the electorate when he ran against Obama. Candidates, of course, are aware of the importance of sectional difference and the importance of core supporters, but there needs to be a vision for all. Harry Truman, Lyndon Johnson, Ronald Reagan Bill Clinton, were happy warriors who loved America and its people. The trick is to have a campaign focus that stretches beyond core support and offers a vision, however vacuous (“Morning in America”, “Shining City..” “We can do it,... and all that) was remarkably absent from the Democrats’ appeal in 2016.

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Sectional appeals, the politics of tactics, are lost without a generally optimist, hopeful, and inclusive appeal. That should not have been difficult in 2016 for Clinton against an offensive and divisive Trump, but even he saw things getting better for everyone (even a beautiful wall), once America united behind “getting our country back.”

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“Mother without sons.” I’m not criticising Hilary for not having given birth to a son, but she seemed aware that a large number of women have sons for whom they have aspirations. She talked about mothers having daughters who might become President etc., but not about the possibilities for sons whose disadvantages of social background, particulary in the black community, were far greater than the glass barrier she was assaulting.

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“Botoxed (?)”. This was not intended as a reflection on Hilary’s appearance in a sexist sense, and is more aptly applied to John Kerry in a cosmetic context. Rather I was reflecting more on her literally buttoned-up appearance, and the general lack of spontaneity in her expressions and uncertain rapport on the stump. Meeting the people seemed difficult for her. Compare her, for example, with Bill Clinton and predecessors such as Harry Truman and Ronald Reagan, and even Donald Trump whose outrageous performances were undertaken with relish and received with popular enthusiasm.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Eutychus:
This is like Remainers trying to challenge the outcome of the Brexit referendum, except with any chance of succeeding in overturning the result an order of magnitude or two smaller.

All it is likely to do is make the transition more troubled and bitter.

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Posted                         

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Originally posted by mousethief:
Except it's not the Remainers who are instigating it. Jill Stein didn't lose the election, Hillary did.

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Posted                      

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Originally posted by Eutychus:

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Originally posted by mousethief:
Except it's not the Remainers who are instigating it. Jill Stein didn't lose the election, Hillary did.

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The Clinton campaign has signed up to the effort.

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Posted                       

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Article I, Section 9, Clause 8: No title of nobility shall be granted by the United States: and no person holding any office of profit or trust under them, shall, without the consent of the Congress, accept of any present, emolument, office, or title, of any kind whatever, from any king, prince, or foreign state.

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Posted                       

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Originally posted by L'organist:
So now there is a recount in Wisconsin, and potentially recounts in 2 other states. Should The Donald be worried? After all, we already know(ish) that he polled 2 million fewer votes than Hillary.

Does the system need an overhaul?

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Posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by Kwesi:
Trump would not have had my vote had I been an American,

But...........

Clinton: smug, self-satisfied, self-righteous, sense of entitlement. Candidate of Wall Street, candidate of the Democratic and Republican elite consensus, candidate with no fire in her belly, candidate with no dragons to slay, candidate without charisma, candidate for all America seeking a miserly 269+1. Feminist without sisters, mother without sons, perpetually buttoned up in a botoxed (?) cocoon.

Let's face it, shipmates, she missed an open goal. She bombed!

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I know you gave explanations down thread. But, frankly, you still said all these extremely misogynistic, hateful things.


Your words here put your explanation in doubt, IMHO. And you said you wouldn't vote for Trump, but you're talking like him.

So...is what you said above your personal opinion? Is it somehow cultural? Or are you purposely posting rude and obnoxious comments?

Kwesi, do you get that this situation *MATTERS* to Americans? It affects other people, too--but we Americans and American Shipmates have to live with this, up close and personal, every moment.

Are you familiar with Trevor Noah? He's a bi-racial talk show host and comedian from South Africa. He took over the American "Daily Show" from Jon Stewart. He said, quite seriously, that Trump makes him think of African despots.

I proudly, enthusiastically, and thoughtfully voted for Hillary--as did many other people. (She *did* win the popular vote, you know, as of Nov. 8th. And it's *still* being counted.) But many other people voted for her to keep Trump out.

If you had a very difficult and dangerous election in your country, between a potential despot and someone who drew mixed opinions, would you want Americans--esp. American Shipmates--throwing around insults about the 2nd candidate, and how awful and ugly they are?

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Gramps49:
Pennsylvania has no paper trail to cross check the voting machines. But the finally tally did not match what the exit polls were saying, so computer experts are wondering about the anomaly.

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quote:

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It is not over yet and probably will not be over for a very long time (even though the Orange One may hold the office for four years, if he is lucky)

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Goldfish Stew:
My worry is that an overturned result from this process could be even more inflammatory and divisive than a Trump presidency. Which is odd, as my thinking thus far throughout this campaign/election has been naive and optimistic to the extreme.

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Yes, I could see some redneck 'anti establishment' gun toting idiots feeling the need to take up arms

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Golden Key:
I know you gave explanations down thread. But, frankly, you still said all these extremely misogynistic, hateful things.


Your words here put your explanation in doubt, IMHO. And you said you wouldn't vote for Trump, but you're talking like him.

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Golden Key:

Kwesi, do you get that this situation *MATTERS* to Americans?

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Kwesi:
My irritation, anger, if you like, is that the Democratic leadership has failed to protect both America and its friends and foes overseas from such a man.

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quote:

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Trump’s unsuitability was so egregiously demonstrated by the candidate himself that it is a disgrace that his opponents with all their money and organisation were unable to defeat him. Given that he was so bad what does it tell us about Hilary Clinton?

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quote:

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As to Trump being like an African dictator I think the contexts and political circumstances between the USA and African states are too diverse for a useful comparison to be made . He is more like Berlusconi, who used his premiership of Italy to keep himself out of prison and advance his media interests.

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quote:

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Trump may turn out to be a surprisingly good president,

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Posted                      

quote:

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Originally posted by Soror Magna:
On November 8, 50% of USA citizens didn't care enough about their country to vote.

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Posted                         

quote:

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Originally posted by lilBuddha:

quote:

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Originally posted by Golden Key:

Kwesi, do you get that this situation *MATTERS* to Americans?

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It matters to the world. America is not a tiny nation tucked away where abuses are mostly internal. Whether any like it or not, the rest of the world is affected.

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And I said as much in the next sentence.

Kwesi said particularly vile things--on-purpose provocation, according to a more recent post. IMHO, there's a difference between saying "wow, your election seems really complicated, and so-and-so seems unqualified/dangerous, and that may affect me and my country", and saying "that so-and-so is mean and ugly and doesn't have sons".

This is an echo of the gun thread in Hell, and many Purg threads: Americans are stupid, evil, and there's no possible reason for the way they do things. If they all followed our lead, everything would be kittens and rainbows and dancing in the fields.

If we try to explain, particularly on the gun thread, we're flat-out told we're wrong. If we fight back, sometimes things calm down--then the cycle starts over again.

Off the top of my head, I don't recall other countries being treated that way here. The US may be an empire, God help us and everyone else, but we're still human beings--and Shipmates.

When we went through this around the time of the election, I and others others pointed out that weren't really being allowed to express our grief and turmoil and concern about our own country, and that non-American posters didn't seem to really care. People started apologizing, and one said many posters had assumed we'd just *know* that people were concerned for us. And things got better, for a while.

Going through this over and over, on many threads, is both tiring and profoundly disheartening.



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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posted                       

quote:

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Originally posted by Kwesi:
I don’t think my remarks have been fully understood. True, they were deliberately couched in a provocative manner, but i would argue they are substantially true.

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