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Source: (consider it) Thread: US election aftermath
Pangolin Guerre
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It's early (my time EST) to declare my best laugh of the day, but I can't imagine what can trump (pardon the pun) this (from the online edition of The Globe and Mail):

[Kremlin] Spokesman Dmitry Peskov dismissed news reports [re: recent uncorroborated allegations of Trump's Moscow shenanigans] as a “complete fabrication and utter nonsense.” He insisted that the Kremlin “does not engage in collecting compromising material.”

[Killing me]

Dear God, how I laughed!

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Alas, I won't have time to knit one (a niece announced over Xmas that the Sorting Hat was wrong, and she is not a Gryffindor but a Slytherin, and I am knitting her the proper muffler, 14 feet long). And although the pattern looks cute, unless it's done in pure wool it won't be very cozy. (Word is that pink yarn is sold out of the stores anyway.) It's going to be damned cold, and warmth wins over -everything-. You cannot beat microfleece and thermals. If there is interest I could list the slogans I am putting on the signs.

I wonder if they might be passing them out? They're talking about people knitting dozens of them so there must be some effort to distribute them beyond the knitters themselves. I wish I could knit, I'd make one for you-- although if I could find a nice pink microfleece cap I could embroider a nice "pussy fights back" emblem on it for ya.

Yes, please post the slogans!

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
If there is interest I could list the slogans I am putting on the signs.

Yes! Please do!

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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quetzalcoatl
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I was just thinking of changing the channel every time that gobshite is on, for the next 4 years! It's the tedium of narcissism.

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clarity eats into freedom. (Bellow).

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
It's early (my time EST) to declare my best laugh of the day, but I can't imagine what can trump (pardon the pun) this (from the online edition of The Globe and Mail):

[Kremlin] Spokesman Dmitry Peskov dismissed news reports [re: recent uncorroborated allegations of Trump's Moscow shenanigans] as a “complete fabrication and utter nonsense.” He insisted that the Kremlin “does not engage in collecting compromising material.”

[Killing me]

Dear God, how I laughed!

Speaking of Russia, I was sent yesterday this: This link to Pussy Riot's song "Make America Great Again", and related article. The video is Not Safe For Work (NSFW), and you have to click on it within the article (don't want to traumatize the hosts!). Nothing Pussy Riot does is SFW. It's art, and some art is challenging.
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quetzalcoatl
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It's art, but not as we know it.

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clarity eats into freedom. (Bellow).

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quetzalcoatl
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Cliffs Notes on Trump's press conference:

No, I don't have ties with Russia. It's fake news. Fuck the Intelligence, fuck the media.
No, I won't release my tax returns. Nobody cares about my tax returns, except reporters.
Maybe Russia hacked the DNC. But all countries hack us, so who cares. It's the DNC's fault anyway.
I hope I'll get along with Putin. We'll see.
I won. I'm the president. I'm tremendous. Fuck Hillary.
Obamacare is a disaster. Until I replace it with something else, 2017 will be a catastrophe.
My sons will run my businesses. Here's my lawyer who will put you to sleep for 30 minutes.
I'll build the wall. Mexico will pay, somehow. Border tax. MAGA.
CNN? Buzzfeed? BBC News? I won't talk to you. Fuck you, assholes.

[ 11. January 2017, 17:22: Message edited by: quetzalcoatl ]

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clarity eats into freedom. (Bellow).

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quetzalcoatl
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Great headline on BBC TV: Russian stream of leaks. Who is writing this stuff?

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clarity eats into freedom. (Bellow).

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Barnabas62
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Pretty good summary. As press conferences go, and by normal standards, I think it was an embarrassment and a disaster. But I should think his supporters loved it.

The key unanswered question was about any contacts between the Trump organisation and Russia during the election campaign.

[ 11. January 2017, 17:51: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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quetzalcoatl
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One issue though, is that it's very entertaining. I wonder if Trump will gain popularity, because of this, even among opponents? It's like a cross between a variety show and a car crash.

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clarity eats into freedom. (Bellow).

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
One issue though, is that it's very entertaining. I wonder if Trump will gain popularity, because of this, even among opponents? It's like a cross between a variety show and a car crash.

I have to admit to laughing throughout at the utter ridiculousness of the whole thing.

I particularly liked the bit where he said that he tells his staff to be ultra-careful abroad as anything they say will end up on tv. And where he talked about the horrible things someone else had said about Hillary Clinton.

It's like he just can't hear what his mouth is saying and because some other version appears inside his head then that - and only that - is the truth.

I apologise to my American brethren for this, I know it isn't really funny.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Bishops Finger
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In UKipperland, we have a former entertainer on trial (again) accused of groping women.

In Trumperica, you have a current entertainer who boasts of groping women, but you've made him President.

[Confused]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Brenda Clough
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There is an app you can get for Facebook, that swaps words. A friend of mine has set it up so that the T word is replaced in every occurrence by the word 'kitten'. This makes posts ever so much more tolerable. I am waiting for the one that can swap graphics, so that the tiny-fingered blond orange-skinned countenance can be replaced with a kitten's.

The signs I am making are:

Make Misogynists Afraid
This Pussy Bites (graphic of a snarling cat head)
No Surrender
The Future Is Nasty
My Pussy, My Rules
Democracy Looks Like This
Come And Take It (with a graphic of female reproductive organs)
And, if I don't run out of foam core board, I will do (in honor of the departing president): Yes We Still Can!

A tweet is making the rounds which runs something like: I feel like when Daddy has left home, and Mom's perverted new boyfriend has just pulled up in a Trans Am. Too long for signage, alas.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Pretty good summary. As press conferences go, and by normal standards, I think it was an embarrassment and a disaster. But I should think his supporters loved it.

I fear that in a world where "fact is fiction and TV reality", far too many people prefer being entertained to being concerned about the actual issues.

Watching the clip where he shuts down the CNN reporter one is inclined to think Trump can't possibly last very long in the job, but I have this terrible feeling that this could be the new normal - and may well set "standards" other politicians will be keen to follow.

How this plays out when reality actually hits I don't know.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:


Watching the clip where he shuts down the CNN reporter one is inclined to think Trump can't possibly last very long in the job, but I have this terrible feeling that this could be the new normal - and may well set "standards" other politicians will be keen to follow.


Of course I know nothing - but it strikes me that there must now be enough he has said in public to use to impeach him.

If there isn't, it is tough to know what else he'd have to say to get impeached.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Brenda Clough
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Only the GOP can ditch him. They hold both houses of Congress. So as long as the stand by their man, we'll all suffer for it. And they seem to be utterly without shame.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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Bishops Finger
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Not sure how the system works in the USA, but surely Mango Mussolini is not (yet) above the law? If he commits, or has committed, a crime (or is so alleged), cannot he be arrested, charged, and tried?

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:

A tweet is making the rounds which runs something like: I feel like when Daddy has left home, and Mom's perverted new boyfriend has just pulled up in a Trans Am. Too long for signage, alas.

Trans Am? More like a scuzzy van with blacked out windows

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

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Or this.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Only the GOP can ditch him. They hold both houses of Congress. So as long as the stand by their man, we'll all suffer for it. And they seem to be utterly without shame.

Try this theory for size:

The whole Trump presidency, and surrounding clouds of suspicion, salacious stories, claims and counter-claims, is a distraction from actual, boring but ultimately impactful political decisions that will be pushed through by the government.

What chance do the intricacies of policy stand when competing for airtime with golden showers?

Terrifyingly, there may be method in this madness.

[ 11. January 2017, 21:46: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It's like a cross between a variety show and a car crash.

[Killing me] I wish I'd said that. Absolutely spot on summary - and not just the press conference.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Pangolin Guerre
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Not sure how the system works in the USA, but surely Mango Mussolini is not (yet) above the law? If he commits, or has committed, a crime (or is so alleged), cannot he be arrested, charged, and tried?

IJ

Short answer: Yes. Acts prior to being sworn in as President are fair game, though difficult (viz. the Trump University charges). Acts after being sworn are different. Discussed at length on a previous thread. I might try to find it.
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Brenda Clough
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But, I repeat: it will take Republicans to do it The Mango Mussolini will put his own people in place; do you seriously imagine that the loathsome Jeff Sessions will, as Attorney General, prosecute him? There has to be a Congress-wide disgust and horror and drawing back. It'll have to be beyond egregious (not that this is at all impossible given the man they are dealing with). Some horror beyond our imagination must occur before they will abandon him in droves.
This discusses what must occur. I think it will come, but not now, not soon. It will be horrifying beyond belief, because that's what it'll take. To get the diehards to admit that they made a horrific error will call for something stupendous.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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simontoad
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something stupendous and undeniable. Trump has the capacity to deny that he did something when he did it at a copiously filmed campaign rally and the whole world has the vision.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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simontoad
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watched TV on US Politics for a bit...

IMHO, Trump is likely to serve his full term as President. The aim of the Good should be to cut the Republican majority in Congress in two years, and elect someone else in four.

Also, Buzzfeed does suck, and is not a credible news source. They are click bait writers, nothing more. No matter how many times Trump says this, it will remain true.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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I wonder why, in the run up to the election, and presently, there isn't a focus in this man's immaturity and juvenality. Why didn't and doesn't anyone ever say "grow up Donald" or "stop lying"? The group of others needs to specifically take interpersonal control. But no one does. Who will rid you of this troublesome obsequiousness and give him none of the reinforcement he constantly gets?

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We must learn to live in harmony with nature. If we don't cease believing we can master and dominate it, life on Earth may be destroyed.
(formerly known more succinctly as "no prophet"), either way not be taken seriously. \_(ツ)_/

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I wonder why, in the run up to the election, and presently, there isn't a focus in this man's immaturity and juvenality. Why didn't and doesn't anyone ever say "grow up Donald" or "stop lying"? The group of others needs to specifically take interpersonal control. But no one does.

No one? it was said near incessantly-- to the extent it overwhelmed any real discussion of real issues. Why it wasn't compelling reason not to vote for him to more voters in certain key states, that's another question. But it most certainly was not for lack of anyone drawing attention to it.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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I'm thinking reporters, Hillary Clinton, opponents in the election of the republican candidate, others who were speaking to the freak directly, on TV. That kind of thing. Unless - it is certainly possible - an interviewer or reporter said "stop lying" etc directly to him.
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simontoad
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Didn't that dude who was younger than the other candidates for the Republican nomination challenge him directly? And Ted Cruz did too, I'm sure. I'm also pretty sure Hillary Clinton did so on innumerable occasions, including during the debates. I must have read 50 columns at least which did this too. The man was justly and publicly reviled.

But enough Americans still voted for him to get a majority in the College. I think that means many of them believed him instead of everyone else, and others liked that he did what he denied doing, or found it irrelevant, or hated Hillary more than they were repulsed by Trump.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Brenda Clough
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This is what is so worrying. A significant fraction of the population doesn't care that the Mango Mussolini is a proven liar, notably unstable, a self-proclaimed molester of women, and so on. They knew, and they voted for him anyway.
I'm not sure that this link will work, but give it a try. It ought to take you to yesterday's Bloom County cartoon on Facebook. This is why there's going to be a Women's March. Because somebody has to say that this is not OK, not an example we should follow.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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Barnabas62
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Trump's criticism of Buzzfeed had some basis. Lumping CNN and Buzzfeed together was inaccurate and unfair. But either he didn't know, or didn't care, that the CNN reports were about the contents of the Trump briefing, not the details of the dirty dossier.

In fact CNN reporting was not a lot different from other mainstream news outlets.

[ 12. January 2017, 01:48: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Golden Key
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Full text of Obama's awesome farewell speech (HuffPost). If you get a chance to watch or listen to it, it's even better. Great combo of thank-yous; reviewing the past 8 years; reminding Americans of our roots (good and bad); doing community organizing to get Americans out and community organizing [Smile] ; warning of threats to democracy (without pointing to Trump *at all*!), but emphasizing that we can handle them; and "yes, we can; yes, we did; yes we can".

That's my prez. [Cool]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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np--

quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I'm thinking reporters, Hillary Clinton, opponents in the election of the republican candidate, others who were speaking to the freak directly, on TV. That kind of thing. Unless - it is certainly possible - an interviewer or reporter said "stop lying" etc directly to him.

What cliffdweller said. The people you mentioned confronted him with "that's not true", "the facts don't support that", etc. Over and over and over.

I think the US election thread, from before the election, is archived somewhere. Lots of mentions there, IIRC. And you can check out news articles, recordings of the debates, etc.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Stetson
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quote:
Also, Buzzfeed does suck, and is not a credible news source. They are click bait writers, nothing more. No matter how many times Trump says this, it will remain true.


The more I think about the allegations from that dossier, the less it all adds up.

Is it supposed to be just a coincidence that, having already put himself in hock to Russian banks, Trump further compromised his dealings with that country by paying prostitutes to urinate on Obama's bed in a bugged hotel room? I suppose it's possible that we have two separate "streams" of compromise going, in regards to the same country, but, like I say, it seems like a bit of a coincidence.

Plus, the whole scenario just sounds like something out of a Grade B sex-farce, a reject from Blake Edwards' script pile. My guess is that some enterprising literary craftsman, aware of the rumours about Trump's relations with Russia, made up the story in the hopes of selling it to a tabloid(or something similar), but it got into general circulation, eventually picked up by the British intelligence flack the Republicans hired to dig up dirt on Trump.

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Eutychus
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Yes, I'm increasingly tending to think this is a massive (and deliberate) distraction.

From what I can make of this article, the conflict-of-interest problem is far clearer to argue in constitutional terms and equally if not more serious in ethics terms (when it comes to being qualified to run a country, not in terms of personal morals) as a romp with call-girls.

So to handle this bomb, Trump handed off to a lawyer for half an hour who apparently put everyone pretty much to sleep ("drones on", I recall the BBC journalist live-updating) while explaining a scheme described by experts in their field as "a totally fraudulent runaround" that "does not comply with the law".

On the whole, the media and the public will be more enthralled by Trump's antics, as another BBC article admits:
quote:
Part of the reason Mr Trump makes for such compelling viewing, is that when he goes off-script, there's no telling where he'll end up
I'm increasingly of the opinion that this is deliberate. Trump entertains the gallery and his underlings pull off the heist while everyone is distracted.

It's like Al Capone being imprisoned for tax evasion. People will fantasise about bringing him down for some outrageous action, but if he is ever brought down, I'm betting it will be for some un-sexy, hard-to-understand, ponderous, boring bureaucratic charge that he will ridicule as petty and mean in comparison to all the good he's done, and his larger-than-life persona.

[ 12. January 2017, 05:28: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
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la vie en rouge
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I just can’t get over the irony of Donald Trump whingeing about “fake news”. Dish it, sauce gander goose, can’t take it etc.

(Not that I think fake news is a good thing. But Cheeto Benito unleashed the concept on the world and I can’t feel all that sorry for him if it bites him in the behind.)

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David Goode
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
In UKipperland, we have a former entertainer on trial (again) accused of groping women.

A UKipper would, of course, have also pointed out that he's an immigrant!
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Callan
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Originally posted by Stetson:

quote:
Plus, the whole scenario just sounds like something out of a Grade B sex-farce, a reject from Blake Edwards' script pile. My guess is that some enterprising literary craftsman, aware of the rumours about Trump's relations with Russia, made up the story in the hopes of selling it to a tabloid(or something similar), but it got into general circulation, eventually picked up by the British intelligence flack the Republicans hired to dig up dirt on Trump.
There are, broadly, three sorts of human intelligence.

1/ Disinformation - someone is giving you information which is incorrect, leavened with enough good stuff to make it plausible.

2/ Bullshit - someone is making stuff up in the hope of pleasing you or getting money or because they like the attention or whatever.

3/ The good stuff - actual information that you can use against your enemies.

One theory, to which I loosely incline, is that the report has been compiled by someone who knew enough about intelligence to pick up a selection of interesting stories but not enough to winnow out 2/ from 3. I suspect that it is the case that Trump is, at best, a useful idiot and, at worst, a Russian asset. But I doubt that he would be daft enough to have sex with someone not his wife in a Russian hotel room.

Of course, we haven't considered item 1. The Russians leak some patently untrue stuff, which then gets disproved by patient detective work by the MSM and anyone then pointing to Trump's links to Putin gets branded a conspiracy theorist.

Incidentally, the period between a President's election and inauguration is supposed to be his honeymoon period. Trump's ratings are currently and appositely, down the toilet at present. It will be interesting to see how the actual work of government effects his ratings.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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Stetson
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Eutychus wrote:

quote:
It's like Al Capone being imprisoned for tax evasion. People will fantasise about bringing him down for some outrageous action, but if he is ever brought down, I'm betting it will be for some un-sexy, hard-to-understand, ponderous, boring bureaucratic charge that he will ridicule as petty and mean in comparison to all the good he's done, and his larger-than-life persona.

I agree. And if he is brought down by a scandal, I think it might be centred around his efforts at jawboning and/or pressuring private corporations to create or keep jobs in the USA.

We've already seen him, while still a private citizen, threatening car companies and allying with AliBaba over jobs. I'm pretty sure he's overstepping his bounds here, and if it keeps up during his presidency, he might end up in a situation where he's cutting corners or greasing palms in order to get companies to do what he wants. Could blow up in his face if the wrong people take exception to it.

Just my prediction.

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Barnabas62
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We'll see. Personally, I think Trump will do an excellent job of discrediting himself (a mission on which he already has a head start) and doesn't need any "help" from dirty or dodgy dossiers.

No need to aim low. He's already provided plenty of information to justify aiming high.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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TurquoiseTastic

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I dunno. You'd think that Rodrigo Duterte, for example, was doing an excellent job of discrediting himself, but he still seems to be pretty popular. Hmmm....
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Barnabas62
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He knows how to play to his own gallery and he couldn't care less about the others.

Bugger the facts (e.g. CNN, emoluments, conflicts of interest etc) he just goes for the jugular anyway.

His approval ratings suggest strongly that those who are loyal to him will be hard to budge, and the rest will just have to put up with him until he implodes.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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At the news conference when Donald said "don't be rude", and called the CNN reporter "fake news", why on earth didn't someone say, "Donald, you're being rude!". Well probably the reason is that is not the way it is done and how such presidential farces run. Some how, though, doesn't it require someone to seize the context and change how things run?

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We must learn to live in harmony with nature. If we don't cease believing we can master and dominate it, life on Earth may be destroyed.
(formerly known more succinctly as "no prophet"), either way not be taken seriously. \_(ツ)_/

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
At the news conference when Donald said "don't be rude", and called the CNN reporter "fake news", why on earth didn't someone say, "Donald, you're being rude!".

Trust me, he is absolutely brilliant at this game. It would take a great deal of skill to come out a winner from that kind of confrontation.

And even if a journalist did win, all they would have done is shifted the focus of attention from the substantive issues to Trump's relationship with the media.

The media is already massively self-absorbed with this question to the detriment of treatment of substantive issues in general.

I repeat: the real damage is going to be done behind the scenes, away from these distractions.

And the best response is not whiling away hours dreaming up new insults for Trump or fantasising about getting the better of him in a public controntation, but steady investigative work to build a wholly watertight and damning case on something completely boring but ultimately effective.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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rolyn
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When T starts pulling the levers of power there is every chance his popularity could increase. History is littered with examples of leader-adoration that is totally blind to both small and large defects alike.

Not wanting to dash the hopes of anyone who thinks this latest squall might bring down trump's house of cards, but honestly, when you see someone who has thrived on negative attention from day one it hardly seems likely that this, whatever it is, will do anything other than shore it up.

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Brenda Clough
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I agree. With Tiny Fingers it has always been that what you see is what is there. There is no secret agenda, no deeper reality, no self-knowledge. It's not a veneer of vulgarity. It's appalling all the way down to the hot molten core of ego.

The weak point, IMO, is the money. Follow the money, Deep Throat told us. The Mango Mussolini cannot release those tax returns, because they'll reveal who's holding him by the goolies. But there are other ways of determining financial truths, long, tedious tiresome researches. He'll fall on the financials.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
At the news conference when Donald said "don't be rude", and called the CNN reporter "fake news", why on earth didn't someone say, "Donald, you're being rude!".

Trust me, he is absolutely brilliant at this game. It would take a great deal of skill to come out a winner from that kind of confrontation.
I don't know about that. Indeed the conversation in a news conference is scripted and the roles and set out. I'm remembering advice from people like Paul Watzlawick who even 40 years ago discussed how to change discourse, and not continue with crazy interaction patterns. I'm not sure people study these things like they formerly did, and are as adept or interested at analysing in the moment, the communication patterns required to change the discourse. Consider also Saul Alinsky's "rules". The communication this Trumpy Wumpy Teletubby controls has to be derailed, but probably not by arguing and shouting down. There's an interpersonal strategy here somewhere; I'm thinking about complementarity versus conflict in communication styles.
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Dafyd
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It occurs to me that the claims about Russia have deflected attention from the rather more substantiated problems with Trump's business interests. That was after all the original point of the press conference.
Do we think Trump is going to keep separate in his mind what he thinks is the right political decision for the US or the world, and what he thinks is the right financial decision for himself?
Trump says he can. Are you saying we can't take Trump's word for it?

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Og, King of Bashan

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I'm expecting the next four years to somewhat resemble what we are discovering has been going on in South Korea, where a few favored corporations and the government have apparently been acting as if they exist for each others' mutual benefit. Some might argue that this has already been going on for a while now (heaven forbid that the government come up with a health care solution that won't preserve the place of a handful of large health insurance companies), but I suspect it will get a bit more brazen.

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Barnabas62
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Been listening to some of the hearings. Gen. Mattis was very good. So was Pompeo. What was striking was how much their commitments contradicted not just Trump campaign rhetoric but some of his key post-election noises. Very interesting.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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