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Source: (consider it) Thread: US election aftermath
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

7. Hasn't anyone told the Pussygrabber that ships and aircraft (known, I believe, to the Mexicans) can circumvent or overfly the wall?


[Killing me]

IJ

You do realize this isn't directed against the Mexican military, right?
Drug cartels have their own planes, ships, and even submarines, along with sacks and sacks of US dollars.

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I see from BBC news this morning that President Pussygrabber intends to go along with his idea of a border wall between the US of A and Mexico.

How will this megalomaniacal scheme work? Some questions from this side of the pond:

1. How long is the border?
2. Of what will the wall be built?
3. How many border guards/watchtowers/fierce dogs/machine guns etc. will be needed?
4. Who will do the actual construction?
5. How much will it cost?
6. How long will it take to build?
7. Hasn't anyone told the Pussygrabber that ships and aircraft (known, I believe, to the Mexicans) can circumvent or overfly the wall?


[Killing me]

IJ

8. Has he ever heard of tunnels? I frequently read in the Arizona news of tunnels that start in the basement of a building in Mexico and work their way to a basement in the U.S. (or the other way around). Maybe I should invest in a shovel business down by the border -- there should be an increased demand soon.

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
How will this megalomaniacal scheme work? <<snip>> Hasn't anyone told the Pussygrabber that ships and aircraft (known, I believe, to the Mexicans) can circumvent or overfly the wall? Has he ever heard of tunnels?
Doesn't matter what anyone tells him. He only listens to voices emanating from his orange wig.

--------------------
"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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At one point they found a tunnel which had been nicely fitted with rails, the better to transport great bales of drugs. I do not believe that the smugglers had achieved a locomotive at that point, but surely it is but a matter of time.

I am sure this is of no interest whatever to Dishonest Donald, but a wall would severely impact the wildlife of the region. Animals and plants have been moving back and forth across the border since the earth cooled. Migration patterns and biological diversity are going to be badly affected. (But animals, they may be pussies but they are not worth groping. So he won't care.)

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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One of Tony Hillerman's detective stories concerned a pipeline which was used to move drugs.
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
To an extent - there was a swing to Trump among lower paid voters (even if a majority of lower paid voters voted for Clinton).

I don't follow. A swing from what? A swing from what might be expected from earlier polling or previous elections? Either way a majority is a majority - majorities are only ever majorities to an extent.
A swing from previous elections. The swing was concentrated in states like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania, all of which Trump ended up winning by narrow margins.
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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I am now finding reports of journalists being arrested under serious felony charges for being involved in the riots, and of departments being barred from releasing information.

Arrests

Ban on agencies releasing information on social media or to reporters

And the radio now has reports of him restoring torture and CIA bases off USA territory where it could be carried out.

God help the USA

[ 25. January 2017, 16:03: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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"This photo sums up Trump's assault on women's rights"

It makes me want to weep.

How did the USA step backwards into shameful patriarchy so easily? [Tear] [Tear]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
"This photo sums up Trump's assault on women's rights"

It makes me want to weep.

How did the USA step backwards into shameful patriarchy so easily? [Tear] [Tear]

Actually, this is fairly standard stuff for GOP presidents. The ban on abortion-related foreign aid goes back and forth like a ping-pong, depending on whether Republicans or Democrats hold the White House. I remember Obama reinstating the money in 2009, the week after he was sworn in.

Like I've argued before, I think a lot of what people are thinking of as the unprecedented evil of Trumpism is really just run-of-the-mill Republicanism.

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

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And it's not just American conservatives who do this sort of thing. Here's an article from Canada. Not sure if Trudeau has reversed this, but I'd imagine he will.

Conservatives like screwing around with this foreign-aid stuff because it allows them to play to their base by stopping some abortions(ie. foreign) from happening, while not alienating the more liberal section of their coalition, since it doesn't directly interfere with anyone's right to legally obtain an abortion in the country.

The funny thing is, Harper was always quick to quash even the most meaningless, symbolic anti-abortion bills introduced by his backbenchers in the Commons(eg. "This House deplores the practice of sex-selective abortion"), because he knew it would freak out the live-and-let-live suburbanites who just want lower taxes. So he was pretty much a master at walking the tightrope on this issue.

[ 25. January 2017, 17:29: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
"This photo sums up Trump's assault on women's rights"

It makes me want to weep.

How did the USA step backwards into shameful patriarchy so easily? [Tear] [Tear]

Actually, this is fairly standard stuff for GOP presidents.
Actually it's more of an amped-up, over the top version of previous Republican policies:

quote:
Previously, the restrictions embedded in the Global Gag Rule were limited exclusively to NGOs that receive US government assistance for family planning and reproductive health, like contraception. These restrictions include prohibiting that NGO from counseling women that abortion is an option or lobbying foreign governments to liberalize their abortion laws. Even if the funding sources for abortion counseling come from another source, that NGO must cease that counseling or either relinquish its US funding for, say, condom distribution or obstetric surgeries. That’s how it worked in the Bush administration – to disasterous effect.

But the Trump memo takes this a huge step further. Rather than applying the Global Gag Rule exclusively to US assistance for family planning in the developing world, which amounts to about $575 million per year, the Trump memo applies it to “global health assistance furnished by all department or agencies.” In other words, NGOs that distribute bed nets for malaria, provide childhood vaccines, support early childhood nutrition and brain development, run HIV programs, fight ebola or Zika, and much more, must now certify their compliance with the Global Gag Rule or risk losing US funds. According to analysis from PAI, a global health NGO, this impacts over $9 billion of US funds, or about 15 times more than the previous iteration of the Global Gag Rule which only impacted reproductive health assistance.

So I guess in one sense you could argue it's just more of the same that the past Republican presidents have inflicted on the world's poor. On the other hand it's a lot more of same, which would make it "unprecedented" in the strict, dictionary sense of the term.

quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Like I've argued before, I think a lot of what people are thinking of as the unprecedented evil of Trumpism is really just run-of-the-mill Republicanism.

A lot of it is unprecedented in the strictest sense of the term, but it's also the easily foreseeable outcome from the trajectory of a party that thought George W. Bush and Sarah Palin were presidential material.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Yes, there were legitimate concerns the electorate has that are not being addressed. Saying the left are the only ones ignoring this is ridiculous.

Were you following the same election I was? Trump was definitely the only one offering solutions to those concerns.

Now, you may say he'd never actually do anything to solve them. And you may be right. But that doesn't change the fact that he was the only one saying he would.

If you're desperate for a solution to your woes, and in a two horse race one person is reputable but doesn't propose anything that will solve them and the other person is untrustworthy but promises to solve them, which one are you going to choose? You may well be screwed either way, but isn't it obvious that you'll choose the one who at least gives you a chance?

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Yes, there were legitimate concerns the electorate has that are not being addressed. Saying the left are the only ones ignoring this is ridiculous.

Were you following the same election I was? Trump was definitely the only one offering solutions to those concerns.
He did not offer solutions. He proposed actions, which is a different thing.

quote:

If you're desperate for a solution to your woes, and in a two horse race one person is reputable but doesn't propose anything that will solve them and the other person is untrustworthy but promises to solve them, which one are you going to choose? You may well be screwed either way, but isn't it obvious that you'll choose the one who at least gives you a chance?

I encountered a bloke on the street who claimed to have all manner of solution to the world's ills. But as he hadn't managed eployment or mastered the basics of hygiene, I decided not to follow his guidance. Trump isn't much different to him.

--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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This is seriously troubling. The deletion of scientific data has begun. Ctrl/Alt/Del

I do hope there are ways to get the stuff out.

[ 25. January 2017, 18:54: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
"This photo sums up Trump's assault on women's rights"

It makes me want to weep.

How did the USA step backwards into shameful patriarchy so easily? [Tear] [Tear]

Actually, this is fairly standard stuff for GOP presidents. The ban on abortion-related foreign aid goes back and forth like a ping-pong, depending on whether Republicans or Democrats hold the White House. I remember Obama reinstating the money in 2009, the week after he was sworn in.


The article makes that very point very clearly.

I suppose that as the whole Trump 'thing' is regarded as quite extraordinary, for a whole lot of reasons, anything the man does will perhaps also be considered as extraordinarily significant. He's not a run-of-the-mill President by anyone's standards.

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Irish dogs needing homes! http://www.dogactionwelfaregroup.ie/ Greyhounds and Lurchers are shipped over to England for rehoming too!

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Given that DD the PG has vowed to build The Great Wall Of Mexico, is he also likely to advocate A Great Wall Of Canada?

After all, and with all due respect to that noble Country, there must surely be brown/Muslim people in Canada, too.

IJ

--------------------
Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

7. Hasn't anyone told the Pussygrabber that ships and aircraft (known, I believe, to the Mexicans) can circumvent or overfly the wall?


[Killing me]

IJ

You do realize this isn't directed against the Mexican military, right?
Drug cartels have their own planes, ships, and even submarines, along with sacks and sacks of US dollars.
The wall has nothing to do with drugs.

The wall has nothing to do with being effective.

It will exist simply as a big gigantic reelection poster.

--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Or not, depending on the resources wasted in building and staffing it. Or then again, as a way of bringing jobs to America.... [Eek!]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Or then again, as a way of bringing jobs to America.... [Eek!]

Oddly that was my thinking. Oil pipelines, walls...big infrastructure projects that will employ a lot of people -- in the short term. Then have the laid off with only a few needed to maintain them. But perhaps the emmployment surge will last till 2020...if it all goes ahead...which is all he needs I suppose.
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Callan
Shipmate
# 525

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Yes, there were legitimate concerns the electorate has that are not being addressed. Saying the left are the only ones ignoring this is ridiculous.

Were you following the same election I was? Trump was definitely the only one offering solutions to those concerns.

Now, you may say he'd never actually do anything to solve them. And you may be right. But that doesn't change the fact that he was the only one saying he would.

If you're desperate for a solution to your woes, and in a two horse race one person is reputable but doesn't propose anything that will solve them and the other person is untrustworthy but promises to solve them, which one are you going to choose? You may well be screwed either way, but isn't it obvious that you'll choose the one who at least gives you a chance?

Other people bring me problems. Donald brings me solutions!*

So your lady bank manager tells you that whilst your account is in credit you don't nearly earn enough to get a mortgage to buy that flat you have your eye on. Meanwhile this top bloke from Nigeria** has just e-mailed you to say that he needs help transferring millions of pounds to the UK and he'll cut you in if you could just let him have a few pertinent details. So, by your logic, you should totally e-mail him your bank details and PIN. Because, when times are tough, people offering you the moon on a stick are always a better bet than a woman who knows what she's talking about.

*Couldn't resist it but, yeah, bit harsh on Mrs Thatcher and Lord Young.
**Unfortunately*** there isn't (AFAIK) an obviously dodgy e-mail scam run by white supremacists which would be a much better analogy.
***Unfortunately for this analogy that is. Fortunately for Trump voters who would be skint if there were.

--------------------
How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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molopata

The Ship's jack
# 9933

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
This is seriously troubling. The deletion of scientific data has begun. Ctrl/Alt/Del

I do hope there are ways to get the stuff out.

This is indeed very worrying. It suggests a degree of ideological micromanagement that is reminiscent of China's reluctance to release pollution data in their major cities. Indeed it could be much more sweeping than that. Basically, by destroying the public availability of data, Trumps administration is creating scope for its New Truths to be propagated without scientific challenge.

At this rate the United States will cease to be a democracy at some point towards the end of February. However, I think a push-back from federal bodies will start to grow. Most administrations are at some level aware that they depend on their federal minions to deliver the facts they need to shape policies and make decisions. Trump in his infinite wisdom doesn't need any of that. However, at some point things will begin to go off the rails and he will have no where else to turn. And until then, federal offices will increasingly start to drag their feet and slow the process of government if they feel Trump & Co. are stopping them from doing their job.

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... The Respectable

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Callan
Shipmate
# 525

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Or not, depending on the resources wasted in building and staffing it. Or then again, as a way of bringing jobs to America.... [Eek!]

IJ

I'm tempted to pop down to the bookies and find the odds on there being a major scandal in a couple of years when the Wall is left half built when the contractors bail out complaining about non-payment and it turns out that half the people doing the heavy lifting are undocumented Mexican immigrants.

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How easy it would be to live in England, if only one did not love her. - G.K. Chesterton

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molopata

The Ship's jack
# 9933

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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
molopata:
quote:
...[Hillary Clinton] projected this air of entitlement...
On the one hand, a politician with years of experience, including a stint as secretary of state representing her country to other nations.
On the other, a billionaire (who inherited his wealth) whose major achievements include running beauty contests and hosting a reality TV show, with no political experience whatsoever.
Just remind me again which one of them is "entitled"? It looks to me like the rich white man who has just been catapulted into the most important job in the USA with no idea of what it involves and no plan of what to do now he's there.

Please don't quote me out of context. Saying that I think that Hillary Clinton was a poor candidate doesn't mean I think that DT was a good one. Your comparison stands in terms of who was better qualified, but entitled is no-one who does not hit it off with a majority of the electorate. At times HC appeared to forget this.

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... The Respectable

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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I am suddenly reminded of a brief verse by Kipling.

Who shall doubt "the secret hid
Under Cheops' pyramid"
Was that the contractor did
Cheops out of several millions?

Though in this case, it will be Cheops doing the contractor out of the money.

And looking it up, I find the second part of the verse also relevant.

Or that Joseph's sudden rise
To Comptroller of Supplies
Was a fraud of monstrous size
On King Pharaoh's swart Civilians?

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Or not, depending on the resources wasted in building and staffing it. Or then again, as a way of bringing jobs to America.... [Eek!]

IJ

You are assuming something other then a PR job's worth will get built.

These guys are into half assed stuff already. Most of the Presidential proclamations and executive orders are little more then "Do this!" stuff. Nothing binding. All talk. No action.

E.g. He's going to choose the best looking dude for the SCOTUS. Who knows how that guy will think and talk in 10 years? Nobody. But, he'll have great hair.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by mdijon:
If only the vote for Americans earning less than 50kUSD per year was counted Clinton would have been elected.

Again, Hillary *did* win the popular vote.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Yes, there were legitimate concerns the electorate has that are not being addressed. Saying the left are the only ones ignoring this is ridiculous.

Were you following the same election I was? Trump was definitely the only one offering solutions to those concerns.
I believe Sanders was offering solutions as well. Clinton made some movement in that direction while campaigning against Sanders.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
mt--

He chose that day? I heard him say, during the inauguration (IIRC), that there'd be a patriotic day, but nothing about it being *that* day. Even for him, that's pretty darn brazen.

It's not that different from what other presidents have done:

snopes

Great find. Your fact-checking diligence is worth its weight in gold.
Though, if you go to Snopes and compare Trump's proclamation with Obamas (text of both at that link), you'll see that O started with stating "I am humbled". IMHO, that gives a different framework.

I don't think these proclamations for inauguration day are a good idea. But there are differences among them.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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Here's a purported example of the incompetency here, found randomly on twitter.

quote:
Draft Trump Exec Order calls for cuts to US funding of International Criminal Court. US doesn't fund the ICC
Lets see if this happens but....

[Roll Eyes]

--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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We're not even signed up for the ICC.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jolly Jape
Shipmate
# 3296

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quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
molopata:
quote:
...[Hillary Clinton] projected this air of entitlement...
On the one hand, a politician with years of experience, including a stint as secretary of state representing her country to other nations.
On the other, a billionaire (who inherited his wealth) whose major achievements include running beauty contests and hosting a reality TV show, with no political experience whatsoever.
Just remind me again which one of them is "entitled"? It looks to me like the rich white man who has just been catapulted into the most important job in the USA with no idea of what it involves and no plan of what to do now he's there.

Please don't quote me out of context. Saying that I think that Hillary Clinton was a poor candidate doesn't mean I think that DT was a good one. Your comparison stands in terms of who was better qualified, but entitled is no-one who does not hit it off with a majority of the electorate. At times HC appeared to forget this.
Surely, the word entitled is used in colloquial English for someone who expects to have, for example, power due to their social status and connections, even though they are in no way qualified to wield that power by their own merit. Thus, David Cameron might well be thought of as displaying entitlement by those who found his premiership less than stellar. A fair assessment of HRC's record would demonstrate that she did have the qualifications and talent to have a pretty good chance of being at least a competant POTUS.

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To those who have never seen the flow and ebb of God's grace in their lives, it means nothing. To those who have seen it, even fleetingly, even only once - it is life itself. (Adeodatus)

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Ian Climacus

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quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
A fair assessment of HRC's record would demonstrate that she did have the qualifications and talent to have a pretty good chance of being at least a competant POTUS.

Yes, but as you wrote your view of the meaning of entitlement is but one -- it has many at the moment and I would say Hillary and her supporters projected a sense of entitlement from the beginning, with Sanders encouraged to drop out.

To me my view had nought to do with her connections [I saw that as her being part of the "political machine"] and a more a sense that she didn't get elected 8 years ago and it was her turn -- she was entitled to it. As if by being a politician for so long, and being a woman thrown in by the media too [perhaps not Hillary's fault], it was finally her time -- and woe-betide anyone who stood in her way.

This was but my view from across the Pacific. But media reports and statements made all contributed to it. For me, anyway. I could be reading it wrong. Was she more qualified? Hell, yes. But the sense of "it is my time" got me more. [As did her backflips on things like the TPP which seemed not genuine, but that's another thread. Thank God it seems to be dead -- corporations suing governments?!? God help me.]

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by molopata:
. . . [Hillary Clinton] projected this air of entitlement (time for a woman, time for me).

Such a contrast to that modest, self-effacing Mr. Trump. [Roll Eyes]

There seems to be a conditioned response to view any woman advocating her own advancement as "entitled". I posted this article in the old election thread which notes that Hillary Clinton has been consistently popular, but that her popularity nosedives whenever she seeks any kind of higher position. (Running for the Senate, getting Senate approval as Secretary of State, etc.)

quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Yes, but as you wrote your view of the meaning of entitlement is but one -- it has many at the moment and I would say Hillary and her supporters projected a sense of entitlement from the beginning, with Sanders encouraged to drop out.

To me my view had nought to do with her connections [I saw that as her being part of the "political machine"] and a more a sense that she didn't get elected 8 years ago and it was her turn -- she was entitled to it. As if by being a politician for so long, and being a woman thrown in by the media too [perhaps not Hillary's fault], it was finally her time -- and woe-betide anyone who stood in her way.

For some reason this standard never seems to get applied to other (male) candidates who run for president more than once. At least I don't recall being subjected to endless articles about what an entitled bitch [Mitt Romney / John McCain / Al Gore / Bob Dole / George H. W. Bush] is.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
We're not even signed up for the ICC.

Alternative fact?

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Ian Climacus

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# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
For some reason this standard never seems to get applied to other (male) candidates who run for president more than once. At least I don't recall being subjected to endless articles about what an entitled bitch [Mitt Romney / John McCain / Al Gore / Bob Dole / George H. W. Bush] is.

I clearly did not express myself well.

I was not concerned with her running again. I guessed she would, and wished her well. I preferred Bernie but my opinion counts for jack all given I'm not a citizen. I just saw, whether from her or the media, a sense that this was hers as she had done the hard yards -- and if you didn't support her [at the beginning] you were clearly sexist. That sort of talk troubles me. Policy surely counts.

[That said, once we got to the actual election supporting Trump communicates to me you may have issues with women, and even see them as second-class citizens. That is not acceptable to me. Given I guess you can't spoil your ballot over there, and voting is not compulsory, not sure I'd've turn up. Not sure if that is worse...]

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Gee D
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# 13815

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I think it does matter. Not voting is abdicating your responsibility as a citizen. The US, and other places with non-compulsory voting would do well to look at how the ancient Athenians treated citizens who did not attend to their civic duties, then implement those procedures with some modern updating.

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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

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Golden Key
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FWIW: As I've said many times before, compulsory voting would never work here in the US. We don't like being told what to do. Good chance that many more people would just skip it altogether, more than already do. Others might wreck their ballots, or write in fictional characters. (Bugs Bunny for president?) And I can envision some people being so upset that they hire someone to go vote for them, which would create the voter fraud that some conservatives are so worried about. In vote-by-mail states, that could be as easy as filling out a stack of ballots while watching TV. (NOT saying that anyone is already doing any of that.)

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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orfeo

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# 13878

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Well Australian law is absolutely fine with you wrecking your ballot. The requirement is to turn up, to do something.

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Ian Climacus

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# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Others might wreck their ballots, or write in fictional characters. (Bugs Bunny for president?)

We've had this...5% or so of votes are informal [though that includes people not numbering enough squares, etc.] I would be loathe to do it, but let people do want they want.

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
And I can envision some people being so upset that they hire someone to go vote for them, which would create the voter fraud that some conservatives are so worried about.

I personally can't see that happening. People go here to vote. But I can sympathise with the concern. We have postal votes here too.

Then again, schools and voting places here put on bbqs and cake stalls on election day so there are other reasons to go. [Big Grin]

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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If people are forced to show up, only to spoil their ballots, then what's the point?

I've never heard of American polling places having food and entertainment. Maybe in a small town. Or in a place, like Iowa, which has caucuses. AIUI, people show up and vote by moving from one side of the room to another. I can see that having something of a party atmosphere.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Dave W.
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# 8765

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
For some reason this standard never seems to get applied to other (male) candidates who run for president more than once. At least I don't recall being subjected to endless articles about what an entitled bitch [Mitt Romney / John McCain / Al Gore / Bob Dole / George H. W. Bush] is.

Actually, I do remember this criticism being leveled at Bob Dole:
quote:
"We need to say, with respect, to Sen. Dole that it may be his turn, but it's not his time," says [former Tennessee governor Lamar] Alexander, capsulizing the view of those questioning the inevitability of Dole's nomination.
Fun fact - the Dole/Kemp '96 website is still live! It will be 21 this year - old enough to drink legally in all 50 states! (Sadly, the links to the pages "Follow along on the Victory Marathon" and "Calculate your tax cut!" no longer work.)
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orfeo

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# 13878

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
If people are forced to show up, only to spoil their ballots, then what's the point?

It forces a decision. That's the point. How many times have you vaguely thought about doing something, and then the moment's passed and you've just shrugged your shoulders? Compulsory voting forces people to think about voting. Just letting Election Day glide by is not an option.

[ 26. January 2017, 03:33: Message edited by: orfeo ]

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Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

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Ian Climacus

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# 944

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Just heard a BBC report which interviewed The Trumpettes from California. One devotedly reads the Scriptures and noted approvingly of the wall given that she had just read Ezekiel 22:30:
quote:
I looked for someone among them who would build up the wall.

(NIV)

Yes. It speaks of Trump.

I despair. Though content myself with the fact she is not far from Ezekiel 23.

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Wesley J

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'Emissions' (Bible Gateway link)? - One begins to understand their climate change denial now.

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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And more fun: Trump is going after "sanctuary cities", like SF and Oakland and maybe San Jose, which usually won't turn undocumented immigrants over Immigration. He's trying to cut all federal funds to such places. Local news reports SF could lose $1 billion in funding.

Mayors of the local sanctuary cities are saying they won't cave.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Whoa.

TV news just showed a huge "Resist" banner that Greenpeacers put 270 ft. up, at the top of a crane, a couple of blocks from the White House! And they're evidently still up there!

I think it was probably very unwise for them to put their faces and names on video. News said the DC cops were contacted, and the Greenpeacers will be arrested when they're back on the ground. And the prosecutor's office will be consulted "to find out what charges would be appropriate".

Warning, if you're afraid of heights or have motion sickness: Some of the video shown here in SF had straight-down camera shots, from the top of the crane. Other sources of video might do the same.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Barnabas62
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An open invitation to the PG?

Theresa May seems ready to join the new President in his desire to remake the world. I suspect she has a reciprocal invitation to visit the UK in her pocket.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Jane R
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molopata:
quote:
Please don't quote me out of context. Saying that I think that Hillary Clinton was a poor candidate doesn't mean I think that DT was a good one.
To me she sounded like a fairly typical politician, but then we are accustomed to female leaders in the UK. Our Head of State and Head of Government are both currently female.

quote:
Your comparison stands in terms of who was better qualified, but entitled is no-one who does not hit it off with a majority of the electorate. At times HC appeared to forget this.
Nobody's going to vote for you if you sound as if you don't think you can do the job, either. And in fact Hillary Clinton did win the popular vote, despite being handicapped by the adjectival double standard (He is assertive. She is bossy. He is confident. She is arrogant. He is Presidential material. She thinks she's entitled...)

If I seem like I'm getting at you personally, I apologise. But this is a situation many women have been in; being passed over for a job in favour of a less qualified male candidate.

[ 26. January 2017, 08:10: Message edited by: Jane R ]

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Amen, Jane.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Penny S
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I've just been listening to a discussion on parasites and they way they alter the behaviour of their hosts. For some reason May's sycophancy has triggered a comparison with this. Like the way Blair switched from friendship with Clinton to buddy with Bush. Makes me sick. What on earth infects them?
Is there something that appears in No 10, like the Minister for Magic to convert the incumbent to believing rubbish?
I hope we have a demo against the creep when he turns up.

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