homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » US election aftermath (Page 34)

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.  
Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  ...  40  41  42 
 
Source: (consider it) Thread: US election aftermath
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

 - Posted      Profile for Boogie     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Not that I wish it on him, but surely someone is going to take a potshot at Pussygrabber, sooner rather than later....

IJ

Not that I wish it on him, but it's a high stress job and he doesn't look well ...

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

 - Posted      Profile for Og: Thread Killer     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Apparently the incompetent ones crafted the "banning of Muslims but not Christians...wink wink...from countries not involved in 9/11 but using 9/11 as a pretext" executive order without talking to lawyers, or somebody involved in economics.

Hundreds of thousands of green card holders will be unable to get out of the country or back into the country.

People who become citizens of another country after fleeing one of these countries won't be allowed in.

Going to cost a few hundred million to the economy this thing.

But, hey, fools who think they don't know anybody are yelling "YEAH BUT IF IT STOPS ONE" which is complete and utter horsehockey but, you know, evidence based decision making is not in play here.


**

BTW, to the idea of toll booths on the Mexican border - good luck with that. ANYTHING that slows down trade costs the US economy billions a day. This ain't getting done. They'll put up a token area, film it, and then say something about "the evil Dems stopped us from making this larger" and run on that for years. The wall is an election tool and won't happen.

--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

 - Posted      Profile for rolyn         Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Trying to sound something of a positive on what many seem to regard as a hopelessly undesirable situation. We in this Country, of all places, would do well to remember that on two signicant occasions the US, while pursuing an isolationist policy, came to our aid when we most needed it.

We cannot unhappen 9/11 and all that has followed, and still is following on from that, be it right or be it wrong. Also putin is going to be around for a lot longer than trump and no one really seems to know what his game is. Just saying.

--------------------
Change is the only certainty of existence

Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

 - Posted      Profile for Ian Climacus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
BTW, to the idea of toll booths on the Mexican border - good luck with that. ANYTHING that slows down trade costs the US economy billions a day. This ain't getting done.

Not that I'm encouraging it, but surely electronic tolling would have no, or neglibible, impact? And CREATE JOBS in infrastructure and back-office processing! [Roll Eyes]

We have no cash booths anymore on our tolls.

Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Og wrote:

quote:
BTW, to the idea of toll booths on the Mexican border - good luck with that. ANYTHING that slows down trade costs the US economy billions a day. This ain't getting done. They'll put up a token area, film it, and then say something about "the evil Dems stopped us from making this larger" and run on that for years. The wall is an election tool and won't happen.

I agree. It was never even clear to me what exactly Trump's wall was supposed to entail. A total barrier that would stop all human traffic between Mexico and the US? There's no way you could put that up without seriously kamikazi-ing the American economy. If Trump tried that, congressional Republicans would suddenly announce themselves convinced that he's a Russian spy, or whatever contrivance they needed to launch an impeachment.
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

 - Posted      Profile for Ian Climacus     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Ignore me...forgot about foot traffic.

Perhaps we can chip everyone.

Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I have started to read Sinclair Lewis's book "It Can't Happen Here".
It is a curious piece of work, varying between humour and material which sounds very topical now.
One passage includes the argument that the US must defend its "shores against all the alien gangs of international racketeers..."

I am forming a suspicion that at some time someone has shown Trump this book, and he thought it something to imitate!

[ 28. January 2017, 20:41: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
For some reason, the people choosing the snatches of John Hurt's work, have picked the bit of I Claudius in which Caligula berates the Senate for taking him at his word in not voting him a triumph.

I cannot but feel that this sprang to mind for some topical reason.

Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm sure you've all seen variations of this, but I found this a neat summation of Trump's choice of countries to ban people from:

quote:
According to statistics tallied by the conservative-leaning Cato Institute, not one American was killed on US soil by citizens from any of those countries between 1975 and 2015.

However, the same set of statistics show that nearly 3000 Americans were killed by citizens from Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Egypt and Turkey in the same time period — with the bulk of those killed being victims of the September 11 attacks. Yet, people from those four countries are still able to apply for US visas and travel permits.

I'm sure Trump has some alternative facts somewhere [Roll Eyes] , but it's so transparently obvious that this is nothing more than a dog whistle, not a genuine protective measure, with the countries he likes being excluded.

But he's hardly the first politician to rely on the fact that many Americans wouldn't have the first clue about different countries in the region, or any of the politics of the region. The whole "Saddam might help Al-Qaeda" nonsense was built on the alternative fact that all Muslims are alike.

[ 28. January 2017, 22:54: Message edited by: orfeo ]

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
John Holding

Coffee and Cognac
# 158

 - Posted      Profile for John Holding   Email John Holding   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
We're all being quiet about the obvious, Orpheo, but I'll mention it again lest it be forgotten ... the countries from which immigration is not banned, though majority Muslim, are all countries in which Trump and his companies -- the ones he doesn't operate, but owns, remember -- have massive investment. He has no investments in the countries from which travel is banned.

John

Posts: 5929 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

 - Posted      Profile for Og: Thread Killer     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
BTW, to the idea of toll booths on the Mexican border - good luck with that. ANYTHING that slows down trade costs the US economy billions a day. This ain't getting done.

Not that I'm encouraging it, but surely electronic tolling would have no, or neglibible, impact? And CREATE JOBS in infrastructure and back-office processing! [Roll Eyes]

We have no cash booths anymore on our tolls.

That's not going to work with truck loads of trade goods. Canadians and Americans near the border can tell you what happens when something goes wrong. Hundreds of million in lost revenue in a single day.

--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

 - Posted      Profile for Og: Thread Killer     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Now getting word that the National Security Council, that group that advises the President on security issues, will no longer have the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff on it (i.e. an actual military man) nor will it have on it the Director of National Intelligence (the guy with the spooks). But it will have the guy who runs Breitbart.

So basically everybody at the meeting is a yes man to Trump or a Nazi

Incompetent

Completely & Utterly & of course now evern more dangerously Incompetent

--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
orfeo--

My understanding of "dog whistle" saying or doing something that Your Sort Of People will understand, and others (hopefully) won't. Often used to gain the support of a crowd, especially in politics.

But the immigration situation isn't "just a dog whistle". People are *already* being kept out of the US, due to T's executive order--even people who are legal residents. (Have visas, green cards, etc.) And legal residents are being advised not to leave, because they may not be able to come back. And people responsible for directly enforcing it haven't been given sufficient instructions yet, so they're making it up as they go along. It's been on NPR today.

ISTM he's carving up and reshaping reality the way he likes. And to his benefit. Like the strong man leaders, present and past. We need to put him, Putin, Kim Jun Un (?), and other such in a nice vacation mansion, far from everyone else, where they can sit and play tin soldiers, Stratego, Battleship, etc.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
rolyn--

quote:
Originally posted by rolyn:
Trying to sound something of a positive on what many seem to regard as a hopelessly undesirable situation. We in this Country, of all places, would do well to remember that on two signicant occasions the US, while pursuing an isolationist policy, came to our aid when we most needed it.

We cannot unhappen 9/11 and all that has followed, and still is following on from that, be it right or be it wrong. Also putin is going to be around for a lot longer than trump and no one really seems to know what his game is. Just saying.

Thank you for this, especially the first paragraph. [Smile]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765

 - Posted      Profile for Dave W.   Email Dave W.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
We're all being quiet about the obvious, Orpheo, but I'll mention it again lest it be forgotten ... the countries from which immigration is not banned, though majority Muslim, are all countries in which Trump and his companies -- the ones he doesn't operate, but owns, remember -- have massive investment. He has no investments in the countries from which travel is banned.

John

The executive order says
quote:
I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order
8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12) is part of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, which directed the Secretaries of Homeland Security and State to exclude from the visa waiver program Iraqi and Syrian nationals and anyone who has been in Iraq or Syria since March 1 2011, and to determine whether other countries should be added to the list. The current list of 7 (Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen) has been the same since the Obama administration added the last 3 on February 18 2016.
Posts: 2059 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
orfeo--

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
But he's hardly the first politician to rely on the fact that many Americans wouldn't have the first clue about different countries in the region, or any of the politics of the region. The whole "Saddam might help Al-Qaeda" nonsense was built on the alternative fact that all Muslims are alike.

At its base, it was built on Bush-43's desperately wanting to avenge Saddam's attempt on Bush-41's life, and telling his staff to find a connection. Some of that may have been due to caring about his dad; but Bush-43 has major father issues, as shown throughout his presidency.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
orfeo--

quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
But he's hardly the first politician to rely on the fact that many Americans wouldn't have the first clue about different countries in the region, or any of the politics of the region. The whole "Saddam might help Al-Qaeda" nonsense was built on the alternative fact that all Muslims are alike.

At its base, it was built on Bush-43's desperately wanting to avenge Saddam's attempt on Bush-41's life, and telling his staff to find a connection. Some of that may have been due to caring about his dad; but Bush-43 has major father issues, as shown throughout his presidency.
Well, I've seen one fairly detailed documentary that doesn't quite paint that father/son picture, although that may have contributed. The way the documentary presented it, Bush Sr said no to the neocons who wanted to push into Iraq after the liberation of Kuwait. Bush Sr was very clear in his mind that the purpose of that war was to remove Iraq from Kuwait, not to remove Saddam from Iraq.

And so, as the documentary presented it, the key thing was not so much Bush Jr himself as it was the people that Bush Sr had frustrated, who wanted to achieve their original goal of ousting Saddam. They had influence with Bush Jr that they had lacked with Bush Sr.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
orfeo--

If the people Bush-41 frustrated are the ones that Bush-43 brought into his cabinet--Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Ashcroft, I think--that ties things together nicely. The various media I saw said that, due to his father issues*, B-43 wanted to bring back his father's cabinet and do better than his father.

So if he wanted Saddam for his own reasons, and the cabinet wanted Saddam for their reasons, and add in the occurrence of 9/11, then the pieces came together...

*One example, from TV news at the time: At some point in his presidency, B-43 was outside a building (the White House?), getting ready to go in. A reporter asked if he had sought his father's advice. He stopped for a moment, upset. Then he coldly said, "I appeal to a Higher Father".

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

 - Posted      Profile for Boogie     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
All this reminds me of the crazy English Kings and Russian Czars.

Democracy? Where?

--------------------
Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

 - Posted      Profile for Gee D     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
In another executive action, Trump has signed the Trans-Pacific Partnership into oblivion. In one sense, I'm happy. I never liked the agreement: to my way of thinking it gave away Aust (and that of all the others as well) sovereignty in favour of the US. But it took years and years of negotiation, all wiped away with no consultation at all. I gather that virtually no notice was given to the other treaty partners.

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

 - Posted      Profile for Og: Thread Killer     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Another thing that this reminds me of from the days here in Toronto of Rob Ford:

the almost word for word explanation talking points used by people to defend an action.

On the Muslim Ban thing, the talking points were/are:

a) Obama did it too (actually he just halted visa applications from Iraq for a few months and applied some resources until the backlog got taken care of)

b) Its not a Muslim Ban (Ruddy Gulliani on Fox News Saturday night said the intent was how to do a Muslim ban legally)

c) If it stops 1 terrorist attack its worth it (No evidence of terrorist attacks by people from those countries - & lets just ignore the obvious gun control application)

Trump screws up - talking points for Trumpkins put out by Facebook & Fox News - talking points said verbatim on Twitter and comment boards. The next 4 years is going to be this sort of thing weekly if not daily.

As we learned up here, the only effective way to deal with the lying is to act as an opposition. Call the lies out. Oppose the talking points head on. Take the opportunity when you can in person to talk one on one with people about what is happening. Eventually, if you are consistent on what you support and what you oppose, all they are left with are platitudes "Well Rob is for the real people!" & insults.

[ 29. January 2017, 14:10: Message edited by: Og: Thread Killer ]

--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Alt Wally

Cardinal Ximinez
# 3245

 - Posted      Profile for Alt Wally     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Venezuelan economist Andres Rondon wrote an interesting opinion piece in the Washington Post about how to combat populism reflecting on the experience with Chavez in his home country. I think he is more or less saying don't engage in populist tactics to defeat populists such as Trump.
Posts: 3684 | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Leorning Cniht
Shipmate
# 17564

 - Posted      Profile for Leorning Cniht   Email Leorning Cniht   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
But it took years and years of negotiation, all wiped away with no consultation at all. I gather that virtually no notice was given to the other treaty partners.

TPP wasn't in force yet. It hadn't been ratified by the US, both candidates spoke against it during the election campaigns, and it did not enjoy much support in Congress.

It's far from clear to me that it was going to go anywhere anyway.

Posts: 5026 | From: USA | Registered: Feb 2013  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alt Wally:
Venezuelan economist Andres Rondon wrote an interesting opinion piece in the Washington Post about how to combat populism reflecting on the experience with Chavez in his home country. I think he is more or less saying don't engage in populist tactics to defeat populists such as Trump.

Essential reading. Thanks Alt Wally.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

 - Posted      Profile for Penny S     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Here's something worrying about the border agents behaviour with regard to judges' rulings.

From the Guardian

Trying to take green cards...

But also, I am reminded of a piece by Alistair Cooke in his letter from America once, about the British troops having shot colonial people in Boston, and the way that the place was immediately full of lawyers seeking to represent the victims, because that was what america was like.

[ 29. January 2017, 19:14: Message edited by: Penny S ]

Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

 - Posted      Profile for Stetson     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
But it took years and years of negotiation, all wiped away with no consultation at all. I gather that virtually no notice was given to the other treaty partners.

TPP wasn't in force yet. It hadn't been ratified by the US, both candidates spoke against it during the election campaigns, and it did not enjoy much support in Congress.

It's far from clear to me that it was going to go anywhere anyway.

And of course, Sanders opposed it as well. The other signatory countries really had to see it coming, given the candidates who were dominating the primaries for months on end.

And Gee D's admission of also being opposed to the TPP reminds me of a tendency I've noticed among those Trump opponents whose views intersect with his, ie. admit that you agree with him on a particular policy, but say that you don't like the way he's going to do it. But it's not always clear how much daylight there really is between Trump's proposals and those of his left-wing critics.

I've heard some Canadian protectionists say recently "Oh yeah, I wanna rip up NAFTA too, but the problem is, Trump's just gonna try to screw over Canada in the negotiations."

But, the fact of the matter, any POTUS is going to try to "screw over Canada" in a re-negotiated NAFTA, because trying to get as much for his own country, while giving up as little as possible to the other country, is pretty much the mandate of a negotiator. If he DOES cede ground to your side, it's because your negotiators played their cards right, not because he was altrusitically motivated by a desire to make things work out better for your economy.

Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Extreme vetting: a process where you completely give up vetting because you find it all too hard and decide to just automatically say "No". Even to people who have been vetted.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
In the spirit of putting our money where our support is, today my husband signed us up for AARP, and Planned Parenthood, and the ACLU. He reports that the ACLU site is sold out of merch. All tee shirts are sold out in all sizes, the mugs, etc. All snapped up by new members.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Extreme vetting: a process where you completely give up vetting because you find it all too hard and decide to just automatically say "No". Even to people who have been vetted.

That's not an argument, it's just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.

--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Extreme vetting: a process where you completely give up vetting because you find it all too hard and decide to just automatically say "No". Even to people who have been vetted.

That's not an argument, it's just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
???

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Ultracrepidarian
Shipmate
# 9679

 - Posted      Profile for Ultracrepidarian   Email Ultracrepidarian   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
The executive order says
quote:
I hereby proclaim that the immigrant and nonimmigrant entry into the United States of aliens from countries referred to in section 217(a)(12) of the INA, 8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12), would be detrimental to the interests of the United States, and I hereby suspend entry into the United States, as immigrants and nonimmigrants, of such persons for 90 days from the date of this order
8 U.S.C. 1187(a)(12) is part of the Visa Waiver Program Improvement and Terrorist Travel Prevention Act of 2015, which directed the Secretaries of Homeland Security and State to exclude from the visa waiver program Iraqi and Syrian nationals and anyone who has been in Iraq or Syria since March 1 2011, and to determine whether other countries should be added to the list. The current list of 7 (Iraq, Syria, Iran, Sudan, Libya, Somalia, and Yemen) has been the same since the Obama administration added the last 3 on February 18 2016.
This is interesting. Does that mean that a peculiar legal way around the problem (in the short term at least) would be for the government of some nation in the visa waiver program (Germany? New Zealand?) to give full time employment for a short period of time for people acutely affected by the ban?
Posts: 1897 | From: Cattle crossing | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Extreme vetting: a process where you completely give up vetting because you find it all too hard and decide to just automatically say "No". Even to people who have been vetted.

That's not an argument, it's just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
???
Sigh. I am surrounded by Philistines. It's a reference to a Monty Python sketch. The idea here being that not vetting at all isn't vetting, because ... sigh. If you have to explain a joke it ruins it.

[ 29. January 2017, 20:29: Message edited by: mousethief ]

--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Sorry, I'm afraid the reference sailed right over my head.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Sorry, I'm afraid the reference sailed right over my head.

Kids these days.

--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Sorry, I'm afraid the reference sailed right over my head.

Kids these days.
My mother will be delighted to hear I'm still a kid. At my birthday dinner on Saturday, she complained I was making her feel old.

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Sorry, I'm afraid the reference sailed right over my head.

Kids these days.
My mother will be delighted to hear I'm still a kid. At my birthday dinner on Saturday, she complained I was making her feel old.
Ask her about Monty Python.

--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
orfeo

Ship's Musical Counterpoint
# 13878

 - Posted      Profile for orfeo   Author's homepage   Email orfeo   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think she was too busy at the time raising a small child. It's her kid brother who provided some of the relevant education. I have memories of watching the Holy Grail thanks to him.

[ 29. January 2017, 21:09: Message edited by: orfeo ]

--------------------
Technology has brought us all closer together. Turns out a lot of the people you meet as a result are complete idiots.

Posts: 18173 | From: Under | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

 - Posted      Profile for Pigwidgeon   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Extreme vetting: a process where you completely give up vetting because you find it all too hard and decide to just automatically say "No". Even to people who have been vetted.

That's not an argument, it's just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
???
Sigh. I am surrounded by Philistines. It's a reference to a Monty Python sketch. The idea here being that not vetting at all isn't vetting, because ... sigh. If you have to explain a joke it ruins it.
I got it right away, but I don't want to start an argument.

--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

 - Posted      Profile for mousethief     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I got it right away, but I don't want to start an argument.

Yes you do.

--------------------
This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...

Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by orfeo:
Extreme vetting: a process where you completely give up vetting because you find it all too hard and decide to just automatically say "No". Even to people who have been vetted.

That's not an argument, it's just the automatic gainsaying of any statement the other person makes.
No it isn't.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

 - Posted      Profile for Doc Tor     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
You should really clarify if this is the 5 minute argument, or the full half hour.

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

Posts: 9131 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

 - Posted      Profile for simontoad   Email simontoad   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Wassa madda Torquemada?

Ben Elton reckons that British comedy was sterile, sexist and racist before he came along and rescued it like some sort of messianic figure, but that's a topic for another thread.

What I would like to know is whether anyone has found a defence from the Administration of its exclusion of Saudi Arabia and Egypt from the list of muslim majority countries whose people are banned from entering the USA. I know the obvious answers from anti-Trump people and sensible republicans. I'm interested in what the Administration is saying. Just a reference will do, or a link if you're sexy.

--------------------
Human

Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

 - Posted      Profile for simontoad   Email simontoad   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Jordan, bloody Jordan? How can you not put Jordan on there? Have of bloody Al Qaeda in Iraq and ISIS are from bloody Jordan. One of their prisons was the incubators of the whole thing.

Black Flags:The Rise of ISIS by Joby Warrick is my source.

sorry: Yes I am a doctor, but don't call me Shirley.

[ 30. January 2017, 00:23: Message edited by: simontoad ]

--------------------
Human

Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014  |  IP: Logged
Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

 - Posted      Profile for Og: Thread Killer     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alt Wally:
Venezuelan economist Andres Rondon wrote an interesting opinion piece in the Washington Post about how to combat populism reflecting on the experience with Chavez in his home country. I think he is more or less saying don't engage in populist tactics to defeat populists such as Trump.

No institutional experience of dictatorship in the US makes the information from this source important but not automatically applicable.

--------------------
I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

Posts: 5025 | From: Toronto | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

 - Posted      Profile for Gee D     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:

And Gee D's admission of also being opposed to the TPP reminds me of a tendency I've noticed among those Trump opponents whose views intersect with his, ie. admit that you agree with him on a particular policy, but say that you don't like the way he's going to do it. But it's not always clear how much daylight there really is between Trump's proposals and those of his left-wing critics.

It bespeaks an attitude very much at odds with his message on Australia Day (written by someone whose previous work was writing detergent commercials, I'd say). An attitude that allies and friends do not matter to him.

Is admitting opposition to Trump already an admission of a crime?

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250

 - Posted      Profile for W Hyatt   Email W Hyatt   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Most candidates want to win the election so that they can become president, but it seems like Donald Trump wanted to become president so that he could win the election.
From 'He's Going to Continue to Create Chaos' in the Atlantic.

--------------------
A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.

Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

 - Posted      Profile for Golden Key   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Trump gave a message on Australia Day??

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

 - Posted      Profile for Brenda Clough   Author's homepage   Email Brenda Clough   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:


Is admitting opposition to Trump already an admission of a crime? [/QB]

There are already rumors that airport authorities are checking Facebook and Twitter when they detain people, to see if they oppose the PG. I know of people who are planning to travel overseas, and are already deleting their Twitter accounts.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815

 - Posted      Profile for Gee D     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Yes, written to our Prime Minister. I assume that he would do the same with most countries and it would all be arranged in his office. He then picks on a messenger. This is the message with some commentary interspersed.

--------------------
Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican

Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008  |  IP: Logged
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

 - Posted      Profile for Crœsos     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Og: Thread Killer:
quote:
Originally posted by Alt Wally:
Venezuelan economist Andres Rondon wrote an interesting opinion piece in the Washington Post about how to combat populism reflecting on the experience with Chavez in his home country. I think he is more or less saying don't engage in populist tactics to defeat populists such as Trump.

No institutional experience of dictatorship in the US makes the information from this source important but not automatically applicable.
Well, no experience in dictatorship for white Americans. Black Americans, on the other hand, lived under a police state for three centuries, a situation that only ended within living memory.

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



Pages in this thread: 1  2  3  ...  31  32  33  34  35  36  37  ...  40  41  42 
 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools