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Source: (consider it) Thread: Muslims Like Us
Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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I am interested if anyone saw this TV show over a couple of evenings on BBC this week.

I think it was an interesting insight into Islam, as much that there are a range of people all different, that it is not amorphous. In particular, it was fascinating to see a fundamentalist winding up the others and being an arse, when this wasn't my faith (for a change).

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lowlands_boy
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# 12497

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I saw the first episode on Monday, but not the second one yet. It's had mixed reviews, but I thought that generally it did make the point well that it's not some homogeneous belief system with a single expression and "one true way".

Will make a point of catching the second one when I can.

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Eutychus
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# 3081

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I didn't see the programme, but I spent yesterday evening interpreting a talk by a leading specialist on the "mosaic of Islam" (but unfortunately did not get to sit at his table during dinner [Frown] ).

Among other things, he emphasised Islam's high degree of diversity and fractiousness, and drew comparisons with protestantism, particularly the lack of a centralising structure and resulting fissiparity (my new theory: salafists are muslim dispensationalists [Two face] ).

I had better retract that immediately, because he also complained about Western academics' tendency to attempt to analyse Islam in Christian terms (a book, a prophet, a deity).

He offered the interesting insight that Calvin helped bring about not only the Reformation but also introduced a kind of equivalent of a Caliphate complete with Sharia in Geneva, and so suggested that what Islam needed was not a Reformation but an Enlightenment.

And finally, he bemoaned the salafist extremists' feat of largely monopolising the public perception of Islam.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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One can only hope and pray that Donald Trumparse also receives enlightenment as to Islam - before he builds his wall, or glass roof over America, or whatever mad plan he has in what passes for a mind.

Thanks, Eutychus, for a useful and illuminating post!

IJ

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Kaplan Corday
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# 16119

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
what Islam needed was not a Reformation but an Enlightenment.

This point was made extensively last year with the publication of Ayaan Hirsi Ali's Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now.
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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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I found it rather boring, partly because of the fundie making his stupid points, but also, nobody said anything interesting. The big black bloke looked a nice bloke.

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hatless

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# 3365

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I enjoyed the first episode, and found the people very likeable and excitingly diverse. The second episode I found painful. There was a falling out that was distressing to watch, and the York locals they brought in were unhelpful to the show's purpose (one of them was as strange a person as I've ever met).

I was left thinking that the ten Muslims came across well because they were all people who took life seriously. There was endeavour and commitment in them, and in most cases good humour, too. Even the one pillock was redeemed, mostly, by the affection of the nine, at first.

I was also struck by how little they knew about each other. They were learning almost as much as I was. There was little overt theology and little substance to their debates.

'This is what we do' is far more common than 'this is why we do it.' Islam seems to be practice much more than belief. I wonder, if you wanted, whether you could be a Christian and a Muslim, as you can be a Christian and a Freudian, or a Christian and an environmentalist.

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Posts: 4502 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
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# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
'This is what we do' is far more common than 'this is why we do it.' Islam seems to be practice much more than belief.

Another insight from Suleiman Mourad was that Sunnis are into orthopraxy and Shiites are into orthodoxy.

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leo
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# 1458

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You’d get as much diversity among 10 Christians

I wonder how selective the editing was – the bloke who kept walking out of the room if a woman or gay came it - did he ever say or do anything friendly that was edited out?

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Felafool
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# 270

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quote:
Leo wrote: You’d get as much diversity among 10 Christians
My thoughts exactly, 10 selected followers of any faith system would result in a similar scenario. Perhaps it's because of an almost universal tendency to stereotype people even within one's own belief system.

I felt that the programme showed the diverse responses to 'What does it mean to be a Muslim', although there should also have been an Ahmadyyan as well (though I guess they might not have survived). However, they failed adequately to explore what it means to be British - neither the 10 muslim residents nor the 4 non-Muslim visitors really answered this. ('Britishness' was demonstrated by a visit to a War Memorial, and to the Minster and City Walls of York)

I'm now hoping we can have similar programmes - maybe Christians Like Us? Suggestions for residents would include a Gay Christian, a Christian convert, some immigrant Christians, a feminist, a bigot, as well as people from diverse denominations and sects (Brethren, Roman Catholic, Evangelical, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons) and also a non-church attending Christian.

Who would your 10 be?

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Felafool:
I'm now hoping we can have similar programmes - maybe Christians Like Us? Suggestions for residents would include a Gay Christian, a Christian convert, some immigrant Christians, a feminist, a bigot, as well as people from diverse denominations and sects (Brethren, Roman Catholic, Evangelical, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons) and also a non-church attending Christian.

Who would your 10 be?

Sigh, we're always getting left out of these lists.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Gamaliel
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# 812

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Do you really want to be on one?

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Praise the Lord for He is kind.

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Schroedinger's cat

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# 64

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You are on one of my lists Mousethief.

Actually, it would probably reflect the wider range of faith if someone from the orthodox was present.

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Blog
Music for your enjoyment
Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Do you really want to be on one?

Good point. Whenever we stick our heads above the parapet, a thousand white supremacists or raving sexist loonies join because we're so damned traditional. By which they mean we don't ordain women, so we must have all the same hates and prejudices and hang-ups as they do. They're poisoning our church and destroying what little unity we have left. So, yeah, probably best to not be on any such list.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Helen-Eva
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# 15025

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I saw both episodes and as someone has said already they didn't always make easy watching mainly because there were rows and shoutings over each other. I was mainly struck by the fact that the guy who was an extremist seemed to link his faith to his experiences growing up as a black man near where Stephen Lawrence was murdered. It's not for me to judge others' motivations but it seem that the anger in his interpretation of Islam was coming from his anger at being on the receiving end of racism.

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