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Source: (consider it) Thread: The military
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
There's a need, I think, to emphasize the ultimate immorality, incompatibility with Christianity, and thus the need to refuse anything military. Something I was raised with by a surviving father, twice a refugee. Something emphasized by watching napalm on TV news when a teenager.

I ain't marching anymore (Phil Ochs):

quote:
For I marched to the battles of the German trench
In a war that was bound to end all wars
Oh I must have killed a million men
And now they want me back again
But I ain't marchin' anymore


And an excerpt from Buffy Sainte Marie's "The Universal Soldier."
quote:
But without him,
How would Hitler have condemned him at Labau?
Without him Caesar would have stood alone,
He's the one who gives his body
As a weapon of the war,
And without him all this killing can't go on.


He's the Universal Soldier and he really is to blame,
His orders come from far away no more,
They come from here and there and you and me,
And brothers can't you see,
This is not the way we put an end to war.

My husband is career military and I have the utmost respect for his conviction and choice, just as I do for Brenda's children and all the young troops who are willing to give their lives for their country, their comrades and their principles. I just wish the wouldn't. I wish it would all stop and we really would give peace a chance, just once.
Posts: 6653 | Registered: May 2002  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Gwynne Dyer in his book "War" describes convincingly that militaries always want their recruits to be less than 25, preferably 18-22, because they don't have well-developed ideas of their mortality and likelihood of dying. Because they can be convinced that they might enjoy the camaraderie, with many young people this age not feeling they fit in well, are lonely to a degree. Because they are less likely to question and more likely to rely on peer pressure.

Dyer goes on to discuss how in Korea they found that some 20% of soldiers did most of the killing, but with the development of modern behavioural conditioning, they were able to have some 90% of soldiers reliably shoot at opposing young men. He also described how soldiers were marched whilst shouting "kill" every time their left feet hit the ground, and how they were indoctrinated about how grand it would be to send opposing soldiers back to their girlfriends in doggy bags.

You cannot sweeten a manure pile by pouring on a little perfume and calling it a nice little hill. While I can have sympathy for individuals post-war who suffer from mental health problems, I also find my self thinking 'just desserts', and that they brought it on themselves. The universal soldier really is to blame.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

Posts: 10844 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28

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Let's face it. Most people are not pacifists. The world would be a much different, and probably better, place if they were. But they aren't. That said, therefore most of society believes that war is, under whatever circumstances, acceptable and/or necessary. Therefore a military is necessary, to have someone to carry out the war. Soldiers are our blood sacrifice and our scapegoats for this. That is part of the reason society honors them, out of a need to atone for what we ask them to do in our names.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

Posts: 11624 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Or in Jesus' name. Or any other deity.

They might be pacifists if wars and military killing visited them personally. It didn't visit me personally, but my 88 year old father talks of little else: who in the family was killed and how he and his cousin, nearly 30 years younger than he are the only ones left of his family.

A curious thing. Give a religion any power and it develops itself so as to violate the teachings of the founder. I've wondered about the fliers who dropped the bombs which created the crater which killed my father's family and how they probably got their ribbons and medals and marched yearly until they died with their children and cousins and friends around them. They probably got lots of honour. Even post-death a nice plot in the cemetery. It isn't deserved.

[ 05. January 2017, 01:41: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

Posts: 10844 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
Soldiers are our blood sacrifice and our scapegoats for this. That is part of the reason society honors them, out of a need to atone for what we ask them to do in our names.

We honor them in name. Then when they really need us, we say, "Sorry, the rich need tax breaks more."

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

Posts: 62951 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
mdijon
Shipmate
# 8520

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
They might be pacifists if wars and military killing visited them personally.

Or interventionists if the Rwandan genocide visited them personally while UN troops pulled out.

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mdijon nojidm uoɿıqɯ ɯqıɿou
ɯqıɿou uoɿıqɯ nojidm mdijon

Posts: 12277 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2004  |  IP: Logged
rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840

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...or warriors if they become fearful that their personal well being/interests are threatened by an other, outside force. Or if they want to prove themselves on the field of battle etc.

No Prophet Flag SSL --Thank you for the link on Remarque and AH. It was most illuminating.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

Posts: 3043 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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Mostly likely, like you and me, refugees.

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Forward the New Republic

Posts: 8701 | From: Ultima Thule | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged



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