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Source: (consider it) Thread: French elections 2017
stonespring
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But with Venezuela, it isn't nostalgia - it is a yearning to emulate a country that is currently collapsing. He should stick to a romanticized view of the Cuban revolution (not that I am any fan of Castro or Guevara), Allende in Chile, etc.. With Venezuela, he must be assuming his supporters do not read the news.
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Eutychus
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You still don't realise how compelling nostalgia - for communism as it might have been - is for the far left in France. Reality warps around it.

Anyway, here we go. I'm off to vote as soon as the polls open in just over an hour - I'll be away from home until they close. This evening looks like being a long night.

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Barnabas62
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Looks like a Macron- Le Pen run-off. But polls are polls and reality can turn out to be quite different. As we have learned to our cost. Hope you've got plenty of coffee, Eutychus!

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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stonespring
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Have our French shipmates voted yet? What was it like at the polls?
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Eutychus
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Macron projected a couple of percent ahead of Le Pen in first post-poll projections (23.7 vs 21.7%). A welcome surprise that he is ahead of her (so far) and that she has not done any better; they are clearly the second-round contenders.

[ 23. April 2017, 18:05: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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la vie en rouge
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Most of my friends and loved ones voted Macron as the best anti-Marine option.

A nice Republican front is forming as we speak. I am now prepared to bet the house.

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
A nice Republican front is forming as we speak. I am now prepared to bet the house.

Aagh, don't do it. Vigiliance to the last.

That said, Fillon's clear declaration that he would vote Macron has probably cost Marine the second round. I'm a bit nervous about some Mélenchon voters though.

The mainstream parties are trying to move the debate on to the forthcoming general election straight away, since they are nowhere to be seen in the second round.

If Macron stays ahead it will be very welcome news. There is at least the potential for some political renewal, I hope this opportunity can be seized even if he was not my candidate.

(I actually cast the first vote in my polling station this morning as I had to get away in a hurry after that!)

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stonespring
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I know we are still waiting for the full official results and a lot can happen over the next two weeks, but, if you'll forgive me for jumping the gun, what do all of you think would happen in the legislative election if Macron wins the second round? In the National Assembly, would he be working with a Socialist (and allies) majority, a Les Republicains (and allies) majority, or a situation where no bloc has a majority? Which side would Macron prefer to work with? Is his En Marche party a serious contender to win many seats in the National Assembly?

Wikipedia says the right currently has a majority in the Senate. So if the Socialists and allies get a majority in the National Assembly and if Macron is President, would they be able to get legislation passed with a Senate controlled by the right?

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Barnabas62
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91% counted and Macron has a lead of just under 2%. Plus support now from the other main contenders in the run off with Le Pen. I think Eutychus can safely put the coffee away.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Eutychus
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Oh, I went to bed soon after my last post above. The later results are mostly from the big cities and there was no doubt they would favour Macron over Le Pen; he has widened the gap slightly (it is said that the odds of someone voting FN increase the further they live from a railway station).

The most notable development overnight is that Sens Commun, the social conservative, largely Catholic movement opposing gay mariage that gave extensive backing to Fillon (to the point that he publicly entertained giving its members ministerial positions) is refusing to back either Macron or Le Pen.

Since Le Pen is less anti-gay marriage than Fillon, this can only be seen as tantamount to an anti-foreigner vote (several evangelicals on FB also continue to champion Le Pen).

While it is by no means entirely representative, I'm ashamed that this should be the most vocal expression of Christianity in politics here.

In another development last night that fuelled my concerns about his supporters, Mélenchon cravenly refused to endorse Macron, shifting the responsibility to his supporters to decide. It may seem counter-intuitive that communists should decide to vote Le Pen but much of his vote was more "anti-system" than anything else. I should think many of his supporters will abstain in the second round, but with 20% of the vote they could screw up Macron's chances (first poll last night put the second round result at 62%/38% for Macron).

quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
In the National Assembly, would he be working with a Socialist (and allies) majority, a Les Republicains (and allies) majority, or a situation where no bloc has a majority? Which side would Macron prefer to work with? Is his En Marche party a serious contender to win many seats in the National Assembly?

We really don't know the answer to any of these questions (one of my reasons for not voting Macron was that in fact there is so much uncertainty surrounding him).

It depends partly on whether you think Macron is a stalking horse for Hollande; according to this narrative, Hollande orchestrated the anti-Fillon leaks and disguised Macron as "not a Socialist" in view of the Socialists' dismal mandate to ensure his preferred successor won; this sounds tinfoil-hatted until you consider the numbers of senior Socialist party figures who have abandoned their own candidate in favour of Macron in recent weeks.

Maybe Macron does offer the possibility of a truly fresh start, redrawing party political lines. That would be amazing in all senses of the word, but I think that whatever the truth of the above conspiracy theory, like Marine Le Pen, he is really an establishment candidate disguised as an outsider, so I'm sceptical. We might well see some sort of "cohabitation", or an unprecedented coalition.

Either way, it will be a huge test of Macron's so far wholly untested leadership (this feels a bit like Designated Survivor...).

I'm willing to be proved wrong, but I'm concerned he's too much of a weathervane to be a strong leader. If he does badly, expect the FN to capitalise on this in five years' time.
quote:
Wikipedia says the right currently has a majority in the Senate. So if the Socialists and allies get a majority in the National Assembly and if Macron is President, would they be able to get legislation passed with a Senate controlled by the right?
The French Senate does not have the same powers as the US Senate and overall is less partisan. Overall, politicians elected to the senate do seem to function as elder statesmen and mostly be eminently sensible. I have worked with two or three and they have all impressed me.

Besides, French presidents can ram through legislation if it fails in parliament. The use of this measure by any president is generally in direct proportion to how much they criticised previous presidents for using it...

In the meantime, the result has the merit of crystallising the debate about what sort of France we want: withdrawn, protectionist, nationalistic, or open, European, and reformist. It could hardly be more clear-cut.

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Jerusalem is a city without walls

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

Since Le Pen is less anti-gay marriage than Fillon, this can only be seen as tantamount to an anti-foreigner vote (several evangelicals on FB also continue to champion Le Pen).

While it is by no means entirely representative, I'm ashamed that this should be the most vocal expression of Christianity in politics here.

Given evangelicals generally poor ecclesiology - where evangelical megachurch warlords as so influential - perhaps it's nor surprising that they are liable to go for the 'strong man' approach to politics.
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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:

Given evangelicals generally poor ecclesiology - where evangelical megachurch warlords as so influential - perhaps it's nor surprising that they are liable to go for the 'strong man' approach to politics.

Sadly true for too many.

I think those of us who think differently should remind them, or at least nonconformist evangelicals, of their low-church history. I've quoted this before.

quote:
The "Nonconformist conscience" of the Old group emphasized religious freedom and equality, pursuit of justice, and opposition to discrimination, compulsion, and coercion. (From the Wikipedia article on Nonconformists
I'm an Old Nonconformist. Bind "the strong man"! A recent look at charo-evo church history makes it clear that many "strong men" deserved to be "bound" a lot earlier. It would have saved a lot of grief.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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mr cheesy
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I dunno, I think it is more complex than that. Low non-conformists have a checkered history of supporting tyrants and autocrats when they were perceived as saying the right thing in the right kind of spiritual language. Thinking particularly of Cromwell, but all the way through to Hitler.

Certain non-conformists (in the most general sense of that term), it is true, have implacably stood against the strongman - but they're groups which are in decline today including Mennonites, Quakers, even Unitarians and Jehovah's Witnesses. But I reject the idea that there is a "non-conformist history" per say which shows "non-conformists" as a group standing against the powers. That's essentially meaningless.

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Barnabas62
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No wish to prolong the tangent, but here's my source.

I'm making a plea for tolerance and a warning about trusting "strong men". The sort of thing old dissenters used to do, and some got burned for.

Of course it's not necessarily typical, but it was an important early strand, and I wish there were a lot more "Old Group" nonconformists around than there are.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I dunno, I think it is more complex than that. Low non-conformists have a checkered history of supporting tyrants and autocrats when they were perceived as saying the right thing in the right kind of spiritual language.

To relate it somewhat vaguely back to the OP - I wonder if part of the present phenomena (evangelicals backing fairly anti-Islamic right candidates), is due to some kind of reaction to/against the new atheist movement [evangelicals trying to present their fundamentalism as the more acceptable face of religion by punching down].

Returning to the topic more fully, I note that some polls appear to show fairly significant levels of support for Le Pen among younger voters (alongside that for Melenchon):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C-HvpXUXsAAeElU.jpg:large

I presume that much of this reflects the large rate of youth unemployment in France - so the cohort who are voting for 'change, any change' are substantially younger than was the case in the US.

[Apologies for the multiple spelling mistakes in the previous post - evidently the perils of typing on ones phone]

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la vie en rouge
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We listened to Macron’s speech last night, and good grief was it a triumph of style of content. He said nothing. Lots of earnest rambling with the odd buzz-word thrown in. Bla bla bla bla solidarity bla bla Europe bla bla bla optimism. I think he fancies himself a French Obama but he really isn’t. I have no idea what he actually stands for and I think he is wildly underestimating how many of the people who voted for him were casting what the French call “useful” votes, i.e. tactical votes for the least worst option. Also I know he can’t help the lithp but it doesn’t help him in the great orator stakes. The one strategic move that I think was smart was letting everyone else go first and waiting until last to make his statement. That way he got to nick Marine Le Pen’s expression and say “we are patriots, not nationalists”.

Normally there’s going to be a debate between the two of them and I’m not sure how well it’s likely to go for Macron. He managed to land the odd punch on her in the first round but not consistently. (TBH I think it was Mélenchon who did best in this respect.)

I know two people who voted Mélenchon. One is twenty years old and following in a long and noble tradition of voting for the Communists in an act of youthful rebellion. He’ll grow out of it. [Razz] Anyway, he thinks the second-round is a no-brainer and will vote Macron to stop the fash. The other is an older lefty die-hard. Hell will freeze over before he votes FN but he might stay at home. I think they’re probably fairly representative. Also I think (but am not sure) that Mélenchon probably got a decent proportion of votes from people of dark complexions. I can’t see them voting Le Pen.

[ 24. April 2017, 10:40: Message edited by: la vie en rouge ]

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Eutychus
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I agree with almost all of that except your last line. Front National voters include people of foreign origin with French nationality who don't want others to share their entitlements.

Mélenchon is definitely the most eloquent of the bunch but eloquence doth not a country run.

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lilBuddha
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I read an article, Vox I believe, that called Macron more of a realist than the others and stating realism doesn't play well to voters.
The later is definitely true, more's the pity.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Anglican_Brat
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I think the apt summary of the clash between Le Pen and Macron is that it is a clash between Trump and Trudeau.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I think the apt summary of the clash between Le Pen and Macron is that it is a clash between Trump and Trudeau.

What does that mean in France, though?

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I read an article, Vox I believe, that called Macron more of a realist than the others and stating realism doesn't play well to voters.
The later is definitely true, more's the pity.

"Politics is perception".

I think Macron is so bland that he is basically an empty vessel into which a whole range of people's hopes and aspirations can be poured. The challenge is going to be holding all those diverse hopes and aspirations together.

Meanwhile Marine Le Pen has announced she's temporarily stepping aside as leader of her party to simply be the presidential candidate. This sounds like Trump meets Erdogan to me, and reminds me of Nigel Farage's endless resignations and returns. At first glance I'd be amazed if anybody falls for it.

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I read an article, Vox I believe, that called Macron more of a realist than the others and stating realism doesn't play well to voters.
The later is definitely true, more's the pity.

"Politics is perception".

I think Macron is so bland that he is basically an empty vessel into which a whole range of people's hopes and aspirations can be poured. The challenge is going to be holding all those diverse hopes and aspirations together.

I personally think he's more or less as neo-liberal as a politician in France can be, either judging by what he has said, and what he actually did as a minister.

It seems like another roll of the 'keep the extremists out at all costs' approach to lesser-evilism to stifle real debate.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

I think Macron is so bland that he is basically an empty vessel into which a whole range of people's hopes and aspirations can be poured. The challenge is going to be holding all those diverse hopes and aspirations together.

If by bland you mean boring, politics has had far to much of "interesting" candidates.
Bland should not be a disqualification. Trump is interesting.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Anglican_Brat
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I think the apt summary of the clash between Le Pen and Macron is that it is a clash between Trump and Trudeau.

What does that mean in France, though?
Cosmopolitian, young, small l-liberal who is "post-ideological" (think Blair before Iraq) versus populist, anti-trade, anti-globalization nationalist.

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I think the apt summary of the clash between Le Pen and Macron is that it is a clash between Trump and Trudeau.

What does that mean in France, though?
Cosmopolitian, young, small l-liberal who is "post-ideological" (think Blair before Iraq) versus populist, anti-trade, anti-globalization nationalist.
No, not what I meant. I mean I don't know how the French will vote.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Sober Preacher's Kid

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
I think the apt summary of the clash between Le Pen and Macron is that it is a clash between Trump and Trudeau.

What does that mean in France, though?
Cosmopolitian, young, small l-liberal who is "post-ideological" (think Blair before Iraq) versus populist, anti-trade, anti-globalization nationalist.
[Killing me]

Post-Ideological, that's rich.

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NDP Federal Convention, Edmonton 2016: More Trots than the Calgary Stampede!

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
If by bland you mean boring, politics has had far to much of "interesting" candidates.
Bland should not be a disqualification. Trump is interesting.

Obama wasn't "interesting" in a disruptive way, but I wouldn't describe him as bland; a former cabinet minister I once worked with who had met Obama said he was "fascinated" by him, and that he was the most charismatic person he'd ever met.

You need someone you feel would be up to handling a national crisis with calm, but also with stature. For politicians especially, that requires more than technical competence. Macron may have that in him, but as yet we simply don't know.

Marine Le Pen is very definitely the devil we know; I hope Macron is not the devil we don't.

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Ian Climacus

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Charismatic politicians often concern me...despite any pull they may have. They can turn out to be problematic, or ineffectual. But who wants to vote for the dull one who knows their stuff?

Interesting result. When was the last time there was a centrist?

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Charismatic politicians often concern me...despite any pull they may have.

That's one of the advantages of modern-day monarchies. The nation has a figurehead other than its president or PM.

From my perspective France desperately needs leadership to move forward, not merely a technocrat.

quote:
Interesting result. When was the last time there was a centrist?
Never under the Fifth Republic (hitherto delivering left or right presidents since 1958)

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
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mr cheesy
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I suppose the scary part about having a non-descriptive centrist standing against a far-right candidate is that the centrist is likely to get default votes in the anything-but-Pen poll.

Which presumably is a bit of a problem if he gets a landslide majority but nobody really knows what it is that they're voting for.

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la vie en rouge
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I am as sure I can be that Macron is going to win – the world hasn’t changed enough yet for the FN to win against a Front Républicain. Question is by how much. As has been noted there is a knock-on effect for the legislative elections that follow so it matters. In that respect the National Front needs to lose hard. Opinion polls are currently calling it at about 60/40.*

What I’m interested in is the people Manu’s going to surround himself with. Rumour has it he’s considering François Bayrou for Prime Minister, who personally I would consider an excellent choice. Macron is waffly and vague, which I think comes from the fact that he isn’t planning any massive changes of direction. What I’m expecting is a liberalised version of the status quo, with a bit of tinkering round the edges. IMO some of the woolliness also comes from the fact that he is not a good orator. I still have no idea what he was talking about the other night.

*I’d rather lost faith in opinion polls after Brexit and Trump, but in the first round here they called it about exactly right

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I am as sure I can be that Macron is going to win – the world hasn’t changed enough yet for the FN to win against a Front Républicain.

I would love to agree, but that is the logic that got Trump elected; the prospect simply wasn't believable enough to mainstream voters for them to go out and vote; and yet here we are.

The threat from abstensionism in round 2 is a real one I think.
quote:
Question is by how much.
The fact that the Front National polled over 20% in the first round should be sobering, and sobering long-term. Get out of Paris and professional offices, meet some low-income/on-benefits people, and try talking them out of Le Pen rhetoric. It's harder than you might think.

A solid victory for Macron will not overcome the profound divisions in France. It would mark a watershed break with a whole series of results across Europe pushing isolationist, extremist agendas which have their constituency. They have taken root.

A Macron victory might be a start on changing that, but it won't be any easier (or faster) than uprooting Islamic radicalisation.

quote:
In that respect the National Front needs to lose hard. Opinion polls are currently calling it at about 60/40.
A week, famously, is a long time in politics. I still live in fear of a "Marcon's e-mails" moment or worse.
quote:
I’d rather lost faith in opinion polls after Brexit and Trump, but in the first round here they called it about exactly right
Where they got it wrong was the turnout, which they significantly underestimated. I hope they don't overestimate it this time round.

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stonespring
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# 15530

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

quote:
Interesting result. When was the last time there was a centrist?
Never under the Fifth Republic (hitherto delivering left or right presidents since 1958)
I have heard comparisons between Macron and Valery Giscard D'Estaing in terms of being a centrist (but obviously pro-parket) and in terms of being very pro-Europe. Are these comparisons valid?
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Eutychus
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You are right that VGE is the nearest comparison - he was relatively young, too - but I think he was not perceived as such an outsider, and already had a political career.

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L'organist
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# 17338

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For Macron to be perceived as an 'outsider' is laughable, and a cursory look at his CV will tell you why.

An alumni of the Lycée Henri-IV - former teaching staff include Georges Pompidou, alumni everyone from Brunel to Sartre and Maurice Schumann - he went to ENA before following the fast (and high) track into the civil service, bought out his contract to go to work for Rothschild before going back into government to work for Hollande before getting a cabinet post on his 30th birthday. He resigned from the government less than 9 months ago.

The one thing his CV doesn't show is an ability to stick at anything for long - excluding his love for his drama teacher, that is.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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PaulTH*
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
The one thing his CV doesn't show is an ability to stick at anything for long

Well he is the continuity candidate and political child of his former boss Francois Hollande. The same sitting president whose party got 6% of the popular vote. Just a clever rearrangement of the party labels. I have as much enthusiasm for the choice here as I did between Donald Trump and Hilary Clinton, which is zero.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
For Macron to be perceived as an 'outsider' is laughable, and a cursory look at his CV will tell you why.

There's a difference between biographies and how people perceive the person.

Marine Le Pen has pulled off a similar trick: appearing as an outsider despite being the heiress to a political dynasty.

You can deride those taken in but it seems to work.

PaulTH, some people think Hollande has orchestrated the whole thing; although I tend to think this attributes to conspiracy rather too much that can be explained by incompetence and happenstance.

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Gracie
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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
... before getting a cabinet post on his 30th birthday.

His 30th birthday was on December 21, 2007. He got a cabinet post on August 26, 2014. There seems to be something wrong with your maths somewhere. He was in fact 36 and it wasn't his birthday.

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L'organist
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Ooops! Sorry, must have been having a Silent But Deadly Brain-Fart.

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Eutychus
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# 3081

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The conservative Catholic Manif Pour Tous movement, mainly known for its vocal opposition to gay marriage and a big supporter of Fillon's campaign, has called on its supporters to oppose Macron because of his alleged "openly anti-family" stance. Leading member Christine Boutin, also beloved of many conservative evangelicals, has lent unequivocal support to Le Pen.

Today Le Pen has cheekily upstaged Macron by visiting the troubled Whirlpool factory in his home town of Amiens, pictured amidst smiling workers.

These factors, and a worrying tendency amongst some to think that "we can vote for Le Pen as president as a protest and then vote in a more sensible government in the elections", should be a warning that this isn't over yet by a long way.

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
The conservative Catholic Manif Pour Tous movement, mainly known for its vocal opposition to gay marriage and a big supporter of Fillon's campaign, has called on its supporters to oppose Macron because of his alleged "openly anti-family" stance. Leading member Christine Boutin, also beloved of many conservative evangelicals, has lent unequivocal support to Le Pen.

When bashing the queers is more important than opposing the fash, your moral compass is utterly broken.

I despair.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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la vie en rouge
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I think the Catholic ultra-right are the equivalent of the US evangelicals who voted Trump. I hope their position should be mitigated a bit by the fact that Fillon himself has endorsed Macron. They are very bad people.

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Pangolin Guerre
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quote:
Originally posted by Karl: Liberal Backslider:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
The conservative Catholic Manif Pour Tous movement, mainly known for its vocal opposition to gay marriage and a big supporter of Fillon's campaign, has called on its supporters to oppose Macron because of his alleged "openly anti-family" stance. Leading member Christine Boutin, also beloved of many conservative evangelicals, has lent unequivocal support to Le Pen.

When bashing the queers is more important than opposing the fash, your moral compass is utterly broken.

I despair.

I think that what you might actually be witnessing is the moral convergence of bashing the queer and supporting the fasho. Not that they have ever been far apart.
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Callan
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# 525

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The French Catholic Church does have form when it comes to supporting the Fash.

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I think the Catholic ultra-right are the equivalent of the US evangelicals who voted Trump. I hope their position should be mitigated a bit by the fact that Fillon himself has endorsed Macron. They are very bad people.

La Vie, this is a question about an era of French politics I don't know very much about. Is there a strain among what drives people to vote for le Pen which derives from those who sided with le Maréchal?

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Here (along with a photo of Marine doing her Cheshire-cat grin amongst Whirlpool workers in Amiens) is a fairly well-written piece about how abstention plus former Fillon and Mélenchon voting blocs could be enough to swing the second round in her favour.

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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For reasons I can’t really divulge here, yesterday I found myself in a room with Emmanuel Macron’s best mate. He was still pretty optimistic about the whole thing but agreed that his besty had a bad day yesterday.

I saw that same statistical analysis in Le Point. It’s possible, but still unlikely. Le Point also has detailed polling statistics about what percentage of Fillon and Mélenchon voters say they will vote for Marine and if it's right then it won't be enough to elect her.
This is an interesting article from the Guardian on how the European centre is basically holding.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
For reasons I can’t really divulge here, yesterday I found myself in a room with Emmanuel Macron’s best mate.

Could you pass on something about prison reform? [Biased]

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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First-round candidate Nicolas Dupont d'Aignan, who came sixth with almost 5% of the vote, and describes himself as a Gaullist, has just publicly endorsed Le Pen. We could have done without that.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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And this week's Economist imagines the first round of the presidential election as a contest between Macron and Le Pen under US presidential election rules. Under which Le Pen could well have won. Hopefully this scenario does not travel well.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
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