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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » Kellyanne and others. Trouble in the White House Team. (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Kellyanne and others. Trouble in the White House Team.
Golden Key
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Reportedly, Trump is considering Gen. David Petraeus to replace Flynn. (HuffPost)

Small problem: Petraeus has already proved that he can't handle classified info. He gave some to his biographer/mistress.

Not a great pick for a national security advisor.

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Sean Spicer did a pretty good job in answering questions. Much better than Kellyanne. But the key points in the defence are that the White House counsel assured Trump that Flynn had done nothing illegal.

I'd love to see that legal analysis. Of course the only thing that would make such a determination plausible is if the White House counsel knew everything Flynn "had done". Given Flynn's lack of honest up to that point, that doesn't seem a safe bet to make.
Spicer was saying that the analysis was based on the info the Acting AG presented i.e. some transcripts. Whether the analysis also included discussions with Trump about prior conversations or instructions isn't clear.

My understanding is that the White House counsel is not the President's lawyer and, in theory at least, has no reason to politicise advice. But you're right to wonder about the quality of the professional advice given in this case.

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Dave W.
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He's appointed by the president, and the current one was Trump's counsel during the campaign, so I'd say the chances of getting politicized advice are pretty high.
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Pangolin Guerre
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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
It now seems the Russians have discovered one of the best ways to weaken NATO and the European Union is to financially support ultra-right nationalist parties in European countries. Get other countries to question the effectiveness of Nato, and Russia will be able to drive a tank through the gaps as it were.

Yes, it does seem that way, and indicates an ideological nihilism that I find unsettling. Years ago, when I was squatting in academia, I had the opportunity to have an informal conversation with an ex-KGB colonel*. I asked him whether the KGB, as a strategy of destabilisation, had ever funded or otherwise supported right-wing groups in western Europe, neo-nazis in West Germany, P2 or Ordine Nero in Italy, etc. Not only was he emphatic in saying that the KGB did no such thing, he seemed personally offended at the suggestion. I found it in some perverse way reassuring that however morally bankrupt the respective opponents were, at least the battle lines were clear. Now, not so much. Putin may be ex-KGB, but he is in service not to an ideology by to himself and his cohort. Has the right ever been anything than oppression in the service of kleptocracy? Racism and authoritarianism may have sincere roots (not justifiable, but sincere), but it doesn't take much for them to mutate into cynical covers for theft. View that through the lens of Stephen Miller's comments that the President's will will not be challenged, and Trump's own behaviour in business, and these are looking like dark times indeed.

*That sounds a good deal more 'Le Carre sexy' than it really was. He had defected recently and was promoting a book, and we had a drink at the faculty club. It was hardly exclusive access or a park bench on a foggy night.

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by Dave W.:
He's appointed by the president, and the current one was Trump's counsel during the campaign, so I'd say the chances of getting politicized advice are pretty high.

Didn't know that! Too much reliance on 'The West Wing' and Babich's characterisation.

Thanks Dave. I was clearly relating to a principle of the past.

One thing is for sure. We haven't heard the last of this.

[ 15. February 2017, 00:12: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Pangolin Guerre
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"... not to an ideology but to himself and his cohort..."

Sorry for the typo.

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Has the right ever been anything than oppression in the service of kleptocracy? Racism and authoritarianism may have sincere roots (not justifiable, but sincere), but it doesn't take much for them to mutate into cynical covers for theft.

I have been wondering much the same thing of late.

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Golden Key
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Watching Colbert's opening monologue on tonight's "Late Show". He called Sean Spicer "the MC Escher of bullsh*t". He showed clips of Spicer explaining the Flynn situation. Spicer actually scared, rather than angry or defensive. Maybe he's becoming aware.

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Has the right ever been anything than oppression in the service of kleptocracy? Racism and authoritarianism may have sincere roots (not justifiable, but sincere), but it doesn't take much for them to mutate into cynical covers for theft.

I have been wondering much the same thing of late.
Can't find the source online, but I am reminded of a couple of quotes attributed to Seymour Hersh, round about the time of Watergate. From memory.

"The abiding characteristic of this (Nixon) administration is that it lies".

"Administrations vandalise constitutional rights. It's what they do".

But I did find this Hersh quote online which also speaks to the point. It related to the Bush administration, but looks to be transferable.

"The National Security Adviser is supposed to be an arbiter of policy and open minded in internal debates. But the playing field was never balanced."

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Enoch
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Is the White House Counsel's job to provide objective legal advice to the President to enable him to do his job better? Or is it to provide a legal imprimatur to the President so that he can wave a piece of paper around and say 'my lawyer says this is fine - if you don't like it, sue me'? Those aren't the same thing. And is the legal advice accessible under any sort of Access to Information?

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
Is the White House Counsel's job to provide objective legal advice to the President to enable him to do his job better? Or is it to provide a legal imprimatur to the President so that he can wave a piece of paper around and say 'my lawyer says this is fine - if you don't like it, sue me'? Those aren't the same thing. And is the legal advice accessible under any sort of Access to Information?

Here's a link, Enoch.

Traditionally, the role has been to prevent the White House from getting into legal hot water, rather than provide a legal fig leaf for legally questionable policies.

But the Trump White House appears to have a somewhat dismissive view of all such niceties.

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Barnabas62
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
The conspiracy theory is that Trump already had some kind of a deal with someone in Russia and the quid pro quo was the Hillary hack to help him get into power. All done through intermediaries of course, one of whom might have been Flynn.

An intriguing update from CNN.

It is a leak of course. And no doubt will be characterised as "false news". But it feeds the theory.

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Brenda Clough
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There are two theories about this. One is that the PG's team was aware; this is all a deep cunning plot and we'll wake up one day with the hammer and sickle flying from our flagpoles. Deliberate and intentional sedition, in other words: a sin of commission.

The other (to which I personally incline) is that it's raw incompetence. Nobody realized that giving a Russian spy a clandestine shag would lead to this. Nobody had ever read John LeCarre or even Ian Fleming, or even seen the movies, or Homeland on TV. It was just fun, a one-night stand that would do in Hillary and win the White House for us. They dined with the Devil and didn't think to bring a long spoon. In other words, it was sedition by stupidity, a sin of omission. (Omitting all intelligent thought is omission, right?)

The question then becomes, is the penalty for deliberate sin the same as for stupid sin?

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Stetson
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Pangolin wrote:

quote:
Yes, it does seem that way, and indicates an ideological nihilism that I find unsettling. Years ago, when I was squatting in academia, I had the opportunity to have an informal conversation with an ex-KGB colonel*. I asked him whether the KGB, as a strategy of destabilisation, had ever funded or otherwise supported right-wing groups in western Europe, neo-nazis in West Germany, P2 or Ordine Nero in Italy, etc. Not only was he emphatic in saying that the KGB did no such thing, he seemed personally offended at the suggestion. I found it in some perverse way reassuring that however morally bankrupt the respective opponents were, at least the battle lines were clear. Now, not so much. Putin may be ex-KGB, but he is in service not to an ideology by to himself and his cohort.
This is not an unprecedented shift. The USA went from supporting international anti-colonial movements, eg. Benito Juarez in Mexico and the Fenians on the Canadian border, ostensibly in homage to its own anti-colonial origins, to supporting the worst sort of elitist, neo-colonial riffraff, eg. pretty much any of their Cold War client states, but we'll confine ourselves to the Saudi royal family and the Latin American oligarchs.

In a nutshell, when the enemy was Europe, the allies were colonial insurgencies. When the enemy was the anti-imperialist USSR, the allies became pretty much any third-worlder who was overly fretful about Communism, which more often than not meant those who were rich, and had ancestral or political ties to the former metropolitan.

[ 15. February 2017, 14:18: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
In a nutshell, when the enemy was Europe, the allies were colonial insurgencies.

Well, some colonial insurgencies. The Haitian Revolution was an insurgency too far for the antebellum American republic, largely for domestic political reasons.

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Stetson
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
In a nutshell, when the enemy was Europe, the allies were colonial insurgencies.

Well, some colonial insurgencies. The Haitian Revolution was an insurgency too far for the antebellum American republic, largely for domestic political reasons.
Heh. Yeah, it's been pointed out that Jefferson denounced the Haitian Revolution AFTER he had defended the Reign Of Terror.

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Augustine the Aleut
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Reportedly, Trump is considering Gen. David Petraeus to replace Flynn. (HuffPost)

Small problem: Petraeus has already proved that he can't handle classified info. He gave some to his biographer/mistress.

Not a great pick for a national security advisor.

In any case, he is under probation by State of Virginia authorities after his conviction, and would need his probation officer's permission to take employment outside the state, even in Washington. I do wonder what satirical writers would do with that one.
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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Reportedly, Trump is considering Gen. David Petraeus to replace Flynn. (HuffPost)

Small problem: Petraeus has already proved that he can't handle classified info. He gave some to his biographer/mistress.

Not a great pick for a national security advisor.

In any case, he is under probation by State of Virginia authorities after his conviction, and would need his probation officer's permission to take employment outside the state, even in Washington. I do wonder what satirical writers would do with that one.
Could Trump grant him a Presidential pardon? It would be a bit strange to grant him a PP and then hire him for a high-level government job, but nothing that Trump does can surprise me anymore.

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Leorning Cniht
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Seems like only yesterday that the screeching arm of the tea party was calling him General Betray Us.

But that was when he worked for Obama.

[ 15. February 2017, 16:57: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Reportedly, Trump is considering Gen. David Petraeus to replace Flynn. (HuffPost)

Small problem: Petraeus has already proved that he can't handle classified info. He gave some to his biographer/mistress.

Not a great pick for a national security advisor.

In any case, he is under probation by State of Virginia authorities after his conviction, and would need his probation officer's permission to take employment outside the state, even in Washington. I do wonder what satirical writers would do with that one.
And would he be able to get top level security clearance?

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Stetson
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Seems like only yesterday that the screeching arm of the tea party was calling him General Betray Us.


I always thought that it was liberals who referred to him by that epithet, and wiki seems to back me up on that.

Possible the Tea Partiers used it too. I don't really have a dog in the fight, since I have no solid feelings either way about Petraeus. I'm not even sure why it was that people were angry at him.

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Gramps49
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Looks like Kallyanne may have been demoted, at least unofficially Instead they brought out Steve Miller on the Sunday Circuit. Now he is a piece of work. Even in high school, he was known as a dick. He complained about minority groups He even said disparaging things about the school's janitor staff.

He has no original thought. He kept saying he could prove that hundreds of illegal voters were bussed into New Hampshire but he offered no proof. Even the state secretary of New Hampshire said it never happened.

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Augustine the Aleut
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Pigwidgeon asks:

quote:
Could Trump grant him a Presidential pardon? It would be a bit strange to grant him a PP and then hire him for a high-level government job, but nothing that Trump does can surprise me anymore.
and then Cliffdweller poses a question:

quote:
And would he be able to get top level security clearance?
Clearly, yes to the first, as there are no limitations to presidential pardons (as there are for some state governors) and AFAI yes to the second, although there might be some statutory requirement I'm not aware of.

Whether or not Mr Trump makes those decisions are entirely political as far as I can figure out.

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Pangolin Guerre
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Stetson:

You're right, as a shift, per se, not unprecedented in the American case. In the Soviet case, they seemed to have been pretty ideologically consistent 1953-89+. Under Putin, it has become pure, utter, personal self-interest. Ideology be damned.

Putin and Trump are actually well matched in that I think that both see international relations in a 1815-1919 Great Power paradigm, in which national interest trumps (unintended) ideological considerations. Taken to the extreme, in Trump's view, it is more important that America thrive than a democratic America thrive.

Tangentially, I recommend Vladimir Sorokin's Day of The Oprichnik, a dystopian satire 'in the near future' which equates Putin's Russia (or, its logical conclusions) with that of the Muscovy of Ivan the Terrible. Unfortunately, the English translation provides very little in the way of notes, so if you aren't on intimate terms with Russian history, a lot will be missed. Worth the effort, nonetheless.

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Og, King of Bashan

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quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Taken to the extreme, in Trump's view, it is more important that America thrive than a democratic America thrive.

This seems pretty consistent with what you hear from Bannon, if you find some of his old talks. Lots of emphasis on "Judaeo-Christian Capitalism" without any mention of democracy.

I once sat through a classmate's presentation about how Pinochet's Chile might demonstrate how an absence of democratic freedoms might be the best way to develop a strong capitalist system. We might have guys willing to test this theory at the top right now...

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simontoad
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I wonder whether Ms Conway's ebullient support of Ivanka Trump's product lines on television was a further attempt to entrench herself as a highly favored member of the Trump team. She mentioned how she and Ivanka were great friends in the same interview. Perhaps she is trying to cultivate that friendship, and thus the favor of Trump himself, in the hope of becoming untouchable in an administration that is apparently riven by internal rivalries.

As other posters have mentioned, she has many years experience in politics. She knows the law. Perhaps she regards legal compliance and ethical behavior as factors to be weighed in the balance when determining how best to advance her interests.

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Brenda Clough
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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Taken to the extreme, in Trump's view, it is more important that America thrive than a democratic America thrive.

This seems pretty consistent with what you hear from Bannon, if you find some of his old talks. Lots of emphasis on "Judaeo-Christian Capitalism" without any mention of democracy.
I think you are generous. If Crooked Donald's desire was for America to thrive it would astound me. It is clear that his goal is for his family and financial interests to thrive. America is a distant second, and the unfortunate GOP is way back there in the pack somewhere.

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Og, King of Bashan

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I'm talking about Bannon rather than Trump here. Trump is the face and mouthpiece of the operation, and sure, he hopes to make a fortune off of it. But there are greater policy aspirations behind the loudmouth up front.

In Bannon's own words (long transcript follows).

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Pangolin Guerre
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Brenda:
To expand on my point, I suspect that in Trump's world view a (democratic or not) thriving America's telos is as a means of material enrichment, for him and his coterie (not just Ivanka, but Melania suing because the Daily Mirror scuppered her First Lady marketing opportunities!), not the common weal. I want my car to "thrive" as a means of transportation, not as a good in itself or means to "a more perfect" fill-in-the-blank (union, citizen/citizenry, etc): America as Trump's chauffeured limo.

We are, essentially, in agreement.

[ 16. February 2017, 00:23: Message edited by: Pangolin Guerre ]

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Og: Thread Killer
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I think the money/grifter aspect of Trump is just so ingrained into him Trump doesn't even notice that behaviour anymore. He would call it entrepreneurship and to him its as normal as breathing.

I think Trump is a true believer in making America into something he thinks is great.

What Trump really wants is to be this time period's version of Ronald Reagan, except with more of a brain.

He wants to be the sunny change agent from the perceived incompetent Democrat who proceeded him, and thus be loved by Hollywood, the people and business peers. Its a bit of a fantasy for him.

He is a true believer in his own ability to copy this pattern and once again make America great after it had become not great under the perceived incompetent.

This fantasy is why he gets so angry at people not liking him. Its why he is up there with world figures and acting sunny with them until he gets asked a question that undermines him and then he lashes out. This fantasy is also why he has been so prickly about numbers and stating how he is loved by so many people.

I don't think he's in it for the grift - he's in it for the ego and for getting America back to a time he liked - the 80's.

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Brenda Clough
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It's getting serious in the pundit class. The dean of the opnionators at the POST calls the PGinChief unfit to serve. A friend of mine points out that George F. Will (the eminence grise of the right-wing columnists) has said the same thing. When two such very opposite men say the same, it cannot be ignored.

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Stercus Tauri
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It's getting serious in the pundit class. The dean of the opnionators at the POST calls the PGinChief unfit to serve. A friend of mine points out that George F. Will (the eminence grise of the right-wing columnists) has said the same thing. When two such very opposite men say the same, it cannot be ignored.

Sadly, I think you are wrong. A lesson that we should all have learnt over the last year is that opinion has almost zero value, and will mostly be ignored. I had to wean myself off the Washington Post when it dawned on me that all they were printing was comforting opinion pieces that I agreed with and wanted to read - they weren't influencing anybody unless they came up with real scoops, and there have been precious few of those. If they can make a solid case for treason charges against the Fart and the barnacles that cling to him, then we'll be getting somewhere, but I don't think we're there yet.

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Thay haif said. Quhat say thay, Lat thame say (George Keith, 5th Earl Marischal)

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It's getting serious in the pundit class. The dean of the opnionators at the POST calls the PGinChief unfit to serve.

Unfortunately I (and I assume others) have reached our monthly limit of free clicks at the Washington Post. The workaround I had previously found seems no longer to work. I'd love to read the article you've linked to, but I'm not going to subscribe to the Post. If you still have access (which you seem to do), could you please summarize the article for us without quoting verbatim? Thanks.

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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.

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Brenda Clough
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I live in the area, so the Post is my local paper. Are you aware that the WaPo subscription is free for those with .edu, .mil, .gov email addresses or Amazon Prime? Go to their web site and slide to the bottom; I think the information is under the tab 'subscribe'. Alternatively, do you have a public library card? Go to your library's web site, and log on. You may well be able to read all these periodicals through their web site. Not for free, but free in the sense that the subscription is already paid for by your county or city taxes.

Dionne points out that Crooked Donald has lost the confidence of much of the country; if he is not seditious he looks too much like it. And that it is the duty of Congress to investigate the heck out of the situation. Nothing outrageously novel, but the headline, and from Dionne, is new. Many people were willing to give the PG a chance; now he's had it and it has not gone well.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
... Lots of emphasis on "Judaeo-Christian Capitalism"...

I must be missing something. What's the connection between the double adjective and the noun there?
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough
... Dionne points out that Crooked Donald has lost the confidence of much of the country ...

So what? Stuff whether the country has lost confidence in him. Now he's in power, he's grabbed it by the p***y. The press, the thinking classes, those with any brains in their heads or moral integrity in their spirits, can all complain.

Talking and disapproving are not enough. Unless there are still other levers of power within the system, and those who actually have their hands on any of those levers are skilled enough, angry enough and are prepared to use them, he can ignore you.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Various shows are refusing to book Kellyanne (Yahoo).

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Pangolin Guerre--

quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Brenda:
To expand on my point, I suspect that in Trump's world view a (democratic or not) thriving America's telos is as a means of material enrichment, for him and his coterie (not just Ivanka, but Melania suing because the Daily Mirror scuppered her First Lady marketing opportunities!), not the common weal.

Please explain. AFAIK, Melania doesn't have a business. All she wants to do is stay in Manhattan to take care of her son. And she reportedly is very unhappy with being first lady.

Thx.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110

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Brenda Clough

The general guideline we have for links to subscription sites is that if they aren't accessible to all members for free, we may provide the link (for those who can get it) but should also provide a brief summary of the relevant point(s) the link supports. if in doubt, do the summary anyway. Personally, unless the content of the link is obvious, my normal practice is to do both.

I've been a bit remiss in not pointing this out earlier; sorry for that. A "slip of the brain".

Barnabas62
Purgatory Host

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Dafyd
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# 5549

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Pangolin Guerre--

quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Brenda:
To expand on my point, I suspect that in Trump's world view a (democratic or not) thriving America's telos is as a means of material enrichment, for him and his coterie (not just Ivanka, but Melania suing because the Daily Mirror scuppered her First Lady marketing opportunities!), not the common weal.

Please explain. AFAIK, Melania doesn't have a business. All she wants to do is stay in Manhattan to take care of her son.
It's not the Daily Mirror. It's the Daily Mail:

From the Guardian.

I love the claim that she's suing because she has lost the opportunity to use the position of First Lady for profit but of course she doesn't want to do so.

The Trump family vs the Daily Mail. How to pick a side...

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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Og: Thread Killer
Ship's token CN Mennonite
# 3200

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Various shows are refusing to book Kellyanne (Yahoo).

CNN said the same thing and then had her on.
Richard Deitsch from Sports Illustrated has indicated that much of this is actually what's called in wresting a worked shoot. Something that looks like its a real argument between the media and a person but isn't really.

There are individual journalists at CNN and other organizations working to report and do journalism on this administration. But the live TV booking aspect of those networks is all about the eyeballs.

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I wish I was seeking justice loving mercy and walking humbly but... "Cease to lament for that thou canst not help, And study help for that which thou lament'st."

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Pangolin Guerre
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Thank you to Dafyd for the correction and the link.

GK, as to Melania's misery, I sincerely don't wish her pain, but as we say in Canada (probably not exclusive to us), Ya dance with the lady what brung ya. If anyone deserves pity, it's young Barron.

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Please explain. AFAIK, Melania doesn't have a business. All she wants to do is stay in Manhattan to take care of her son. And she reportedly is very unhappy with being first lady.

Thx.

Like her daughter-in-law, Melania has put her name on cosmetics, jewelry, fashion, etc., including $150-an-ounce caviar moisturizer.

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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Various shows are refusing to book Kellyanne (Yahoo).

If only the media had that kind of integrity before the election.

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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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Og, King of Bashan

Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
... Lots of emphasis on "Judaeo-Christian Capitalism"...

I must be missing something. What's the connection between the double adjective and the noun there?
It is his term rather than mine. As I said above, you can read in his own words what this means to him.

TL/DR: Bannon seems to think that the two greatest aspects of Western culture are "Judaeo-Christian" values (read: moral values that conform to traditional norms) and capitalism. He believes that both aspects are under attack, both externally by ISIS and like-minded groups, and internally, with the left attacking traditional moral norms and the right replacing pure capitalism with crony capitalism (bailouts, free trade agreements that take away manufacturing jobs, lose immigration laws to cut the price of labor, etc.). He sees large coastal cities as the center of both internal attacks, a characterization that played a major part in Trump's strategy and victory. He seems to believe that there was a golden age where morally conforming members of the middle class could get ahead, and that that world has disappeared. And naturally, he would like to bring it back.

Now for the purposes of my comment above, one of the interesting things about the speech is that he leaves out a few things that many might consider to be great aspect of Western culture, republican or democratic forms of government, and civil liberties. Making America Great Again is not about building up strong democratic institutions or protecting individual liberties. It is about favoring traditional moral values, and making conforming individuals feel like the government is protecting their economic interests.

A lot to pick apart and disagree with there, to be sure. But it's useful to read, because he's really not that hard to understand, and it might help put the whole sometimes chaotic movement into better context.

[ 16. February 2017, 16:20: Message edited by: Og, King of Bashan ]

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Gramps49
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Under the term: Trouble in the White House

Another advisor, Sebastian Gorka, has been photographed with a medal that was used to identify Nazi collaborators in Hungry. See this report.

Don't tell me this administration is not filled with known fascists.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Wow, re Gorka. (I skimmed the article.)
[Paranoid]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Al Eluia

Inquisitor
# 864

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
[QUOTE]Haitian Revolution[/URL] was an insurgency too far for the antebellum American republic, largely for domestic political reasons.

Insurgencies are (in the view of the US power structure) only OK when perpetrated by white people. Compare the handling of the Bundy gang's occupation in Oregon vs. Black Lives Matter protests.

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Consider helping out the Anglican Seminary in El Salvador with a book or two! https://www.amazon.es/registry/wishlist/YDAZNSAWWWBT/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_ep_ws_7IRSzbD16R9RQ
https://www.episcopalcafe.com/a-seminary-is-born-in-el-salvador/

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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"Judeo-Christian values" is so post-second world war it's not funny. Is this an episode of Foyles War? The term is an undead term used by a bloke who could not be fairly described as Jewish or Christian.

I'd like to hear-hear and stamp my feet at the idea that at this point, you need a hand on a powerful lever to have any chance of touching Trump. Fortunately, the USA's federal system means that there are a plethora of levers, many controlled by Democrats. That immigration battle was a MASSIVE WIN. Round 3 is coming up soon as the Administration re-drafts the executive order, but they are still 0-2, and a substantial limb of injustice, that those out of the country couldn't get back, has been hacked off.

Unless something amazing happens, Trump's going to be President for the next four years. I reckon American Lawyers can keep him pretty tied up. And he thinks the media is the enemy [Big Grin]

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Human

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Thanks to everyone who provided info about Melania's jewelry business.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Tukai
Shipmate
# 12960

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According to this report in the Guardian , it seems that Trump's nominee for Secretary of Labor, Mr Andrew Puzder, has also been forced to withdraw. The report suggests that Puzder advocated a labor policy that favoured robots over humans and that "his burger empire was built on low pay, wage theft, sexual harassment and intimidation". Isn't that what every one of Trump's business mates wants?

Can any USA-based shipmates tell us more?

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A government that panders to the worst instincts of its people degrades the whole country for years to come.

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