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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Church of Not Talking About Sex
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anteater
Ship's pest-controller
# 11435
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Posted
Rolyn: quote:
how one wants to define adultery.
When I was a JW, there was a lot of grumbling because "adultery" was strictly confined to what is romantically defined as "heterosexual penetrative vaginal sex".
So I could screw my boyfriend to death, but wasn't an adulterer so couldn't be divorced.
And talking about keeping sex under the carpet, there was a wonderful time with the JWs which I sadly missed where they decided to go into almost 3-D details about what you couldn't do with your bits. And this was all solemnly "discussed" at their Sunday Watchtower study (ah! such forgotten delights) where a group would "discuss" (i.e. repeat the officially provided answers to) things like "Paragraph 3: What is Jehovah God's attitude towards fellatio?" etc etc at hilarity.
Anyone need their housegroup pepping up?
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Schnuffle schnuffle.
Posts: 2538 | From: UK | Registered: May 2006
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DaleMaily
Apprentice
# 18725
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
DaleMaily
It's not so much 'allowed', but rather tolerated by mainstream denominations or movements because it's so prevalent in secular culture. Tolerance is a matter of pragmatism. However, evangelicalism is more theologically defiant of the culture so is usually less accepting.
Apologies, I should have made myself clearer. I was actually checking if it was fine to re-open the oblivion thread on sex before marriage or whether I should just start a replacement one in Dead Horses, thereby displaying my hypocrisy in agreeing that we should talk about sex less (especially that conducted by other people), whilst at the same time wanting to talk about sex ![[Two face]](graemlins/scot_twoface.gif) .
I think I'll just start a new thread and see what happens ![[Biased]](wink.gif) .
quote:
If someone wants a church that tends not to make a public fuss about sexual matters I'd recommend British Methodism (although I think SSM has made a few waves at Conference in recent years). Avoiding conflict is the Methodist way. The problem with Methodism, though, is that it lacks the pizzazz of the stricter outfits.
I actually went to a Methodist church when I was growing up, and my current church (CofE) tends not to talk about sex at all. It's amazing how much there is to talk about when you stop banging on about one thing in general (still getting used to all the robes, though...). Call me a cynic, but it's almost as if proselytising about other people's sex lives distracts attention away from the more day-to-day sins (gossip, idolatry etc.).
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The more I get to know the less I find that I understand.
Posts: 48 | From: London | Registered: Jan 2017
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
We had a Lenten meeting once where the speaker found it necessary to go into the mechanical details of sexual intercouse so as to make clear as to why he personally found male/male sex to be unacceptable.
There was a lot of head shaking among the audience who either didn't agree with what was being said or found it uncomfortable listening. Needless to say the question and answer period was met with stoney silence. One chap, who we both rather liked never showed up in Church after that.
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Change is the only certainty of existence
Posts: 3206 | From: U.K. | Registered: Dec 2011
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
My experience (of MOTR Methodist and CofE churches) is that any 'talking' about sex is more likely to happen outside of lay congregational environments, so it's easy for the average churchgoer to avoid. For example, I discovered at her memorial service that one of my ex-ministers had been working for gay rights, but this wasn't something she shared with the congregation, AFAIK.
I should think that having these conversations depends on the demographics as well as the theology of a congregation. Most churchgoers are prudish middle aged or elderly folk, but I assume that congregations which are blessed with lots of 'young people' may be forced to address sexual issues, if only because their younger members (if they're like modern young people generally) may themselves be quite open about their sexuality, sexual behaviour and ideas on sexual morality.
Moreover, young people are mostly found in evangelical rather than MOTR or liberal churches, so there will be teachings about sexual behaviour and lifestyle that the church leaders will want to transmit to their younger members.
Whether a congregation is coming from a liberal or conservative sexual perspective, the struggle to engage teens and twentysomethings with church life involves helping them to feel that their opinions are being heard, that they have something to contribute. Telling them just to keep quiet is hardly going to help with that.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
There is quite a lot of space between 'being obsessed with sex' and 'never discussing sex'. Acknowledging sex as an important part of most people's adult lives (although actually increasingly not millennial lives - millennials are less sexually active than previous generations and the fastest rising rates of STIs happens in 50-60yos) while not having it overshadow other issues seems like the best option. Indeed, I know from my peers (we are older millennials born in the late 80s and early 90s) in progressive churches that many want a different Christian sexual ethic to conservative evangelicals, but not no Christian sexual ethic. I think older (by which I mean older than millennials/younger gen x) progressive Christians maybe don't realise the extent to which young people are badly served by never discussing sex.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Moreover, young people are mostly found in evangelical rather than MOTR or liberal churches, so there will be teachings about sexual behaviour and lifestyle that the church leaders will want to transmit to their younger members.
Setting aside where the largest quantity of young people are to be found on the grounds that it might provoke another row...
In the case you describe, the church authorities may want to offer teachings about sexual behaviour but I doubt it would be a good idea. There's nothing more of a teenage turn off than adults talking about sex, specially in public in a mildly self-righteous and acutely embarrassed way. I strong suspect the teenagers and 20-somethings at my church would run a mile. I would have when I was that age. Or maybe you mean talking about relationships and treating each other with respect and love and such? That would make more sense and also probably be an easier sell.
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Robes are pretty taboo at our parish, MaleDaily.
You're only likely to see the vicar robed if he was forced to don them at gunpoint.
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
Moreover, young people are mostly found in evangelical rather than MOTR or liberal churches, so there will be teachings about sexual behaviour and lifestyle that the church leaders will want to transmit to their younger members.
Setting aside where the largest quantity of young people are to be found on the grounds that it might provoke another row...
In the case you describe, the church authorities may want to offer teachings about sexual behaviour but I doubt it would be a good idea. There's nothing more of a teenage turn off than adults talking about sex, specially in public in a mildly self-righteous and acutely embarrassed way. I strong suspect the teenagers and 20-somethings at my church would run a mile. I would have when I was that age. Or maybe you mean talking about relationships and treating each other with respect and love and such? That would make more sense and also probably be an easier sell.
That's the only possible sell. As I mooted on the SBM thread. The only law to lay down is the law of Christ, of love, of the spirit superior to legalism. Against which that there is no law.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
Setting aside where the largest quantity of young people are to be found on the grounds that it might provoke another row...
You're posting from London, which is not a typical place in terms of English Christianity. Over half of all churchgoers in their twenties are worshipping in London, no doubt in a range of churches, where they'll find others like themselves. The remainder are scattered around the country, where they're less likely to find many worshippers in their age group at the average church. If they have children, they may want to attend a church with a decent, functioning Sunday School. This won't be available at many churches.
The problem for many non-evangelical churches outside London (and perhaps also outside ancient university towns and some well-heeeled suburbs) is that many are struggling with outreach, with finances and with ageing congregations. They're finding it hard to recruit lay people simply to maintain church life, let alone to engage seriously in youth work.
FEs with a youth focus may have a positive impact in the mainstream, moderate church sector, but the reach must be quite limited.
quote:
In the case you describe, the church authorities may want to offer teachings about sexual behaviour but I doubt it would be a good idea. There's nothing more of a teenage turn off than adults talking about sex, specially in public in a mildly self-righteous and acutely embarrassed way. I strong suspect the teenagers and 20-somethings at my church would run a mile. I would have when I was that age. Or maybe you mean talking about relationships and treating each other with respect and love and such? That would make more sense and also probably be an easier sell.
TBH, I don't attend the kinds of churches where these conversations are happening, at least not publicly. But in the evangelical churches I know that have a lot of young people, I'd expect youth pastors and others to be engaging with these issues.
I should add that the churches I have in mind are mostly in the inner city. They're multicultural churches. The kids and the pastors aren't all middle class, awkward types. Many will have experience of broken homes, teenage pregnancy, etc. In that context, the kids are probably more willing to listen, especially if the speaker or his family members have had experiences they can relate to.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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Helen-Eva
Shipmate
# 15025
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
quote:
Originally posted by Helen-Eva:
Setting aside where the largest quantity of young people are to be found on the grounds that it might provoke another row...
You're posting from London, which is not a typical place in terms of English Christianity.
Ah - danger of assumptions - while I may work in London I frequently worship out in the provinces. My home church is [redacted for privacy] but it's a medium sized town more than an hour away from the metropolis and it was the teenagers and people in their 20s there to whom I was referring.
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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.
Posts: 637 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009
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