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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Do you love Jesus?
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
Loving Jesus is crucial to a lot of Christians' spirituality. They are confident that they love Jesus.
I am not sure this is language I feel altogether comfortable with.
I suppose part of it is that I'm not sure what is meant by 'love' in this context. If it is 'love' in the sense of 'love thy neighbour as thyself', I'd feel uncomfortable saying I love Jesus for the same reason that I'd feel uncomfortable saying I love my neighbour; it seems to be an ideal that as a sinner one is duty bound to confess one falls short of.
If it's love in a sort of fuzzy emotional sense, then I'm not sure I do emotions, and also I don't think Christianity is about feelings.
On the other hand, Christians who say they love Jesus seem, on the whole, to be honest and well-balanced people.
Am I an emotionally stunted baboon? Or do other Shipmates feel the same?
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
John 14:15
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A15&version=NASB
That seems to me to be the acid-test.
It doesn't say anything about whoozy emotional feelings there, does it?
Loving the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbour as ourselves is hard work. Whishty-whishty woozy-oozy feelings don't necessarily come into that ...
Do I love Christ?
To what extent am I obeying his commands?
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
I don't think it's your spirituality that's stunted as much as our (corporate) language. Both inside and outside the church we do tend to use "love" in rather sloppy ways-- either overly romanticized/sexualized passion or sloppy puppy-dog affection.
In Scripture it seems like love is defined more by action than by emotion. When Jesus is asked to define "love your neighbor" he tells the story of the Good Samaritan-- a story that tells us a great deal about the Samaritan's actions, but not a word about his emotions. He might very well be grumpy at having his journey interrupted by this darn Jew, but he responds with love because he stopped, and helped.
Similarly, several passages tell us that we know what love is because Christ died for us.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
And His commandments, the commandments of the kingdom, the kingdom of universal social justice, are?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
In answer to the thread title, which one?
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Indeed Mousethief. I also love ice cream, that coat you're wearing, and Friday nights. A better question is whether you want to follow the Jesus way, and try to act lovingly* in your life to others.
* lovingly is an awful word too - might be best said out more fully as "with kindness and charity, and even if you feel hate and indifference and want to poke their eyes out".
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
I'm a Lutheran of the Germanic heritage variety, and we don't do emotions (publicly--eh, unless we've had way too much beer). But as everybody else has pointed out already, the test of whether love exists or not is in the actions. Not that you have to be 100% perfect on those, but what's the general trend? Is it toward acting in ways that the object of your maybe-love would be happy with, or not? Do you have any skin in the game? Does it cost you anything to do what Jesus asks?
If this is true, even slightly, I think you're all right. The feelings are an afterthought. Some people let them all hang out, and others of us would come very close to greeting the risen Christ with a salute and "Good to see you looking more yourself, Sir."
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
If this is true, even slightly, I think you're all right. The feelings are an afterthought. Some people let them all hang out, and others of us would come very close to greeting the risen Christ with a salute and "Good to see you looking more yourself, Sir."
Which might make an interesting circus thread. My first thought was of skate boarders saying "hey Dude..."
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Humble Servant
Shipmate
# 18391
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
In answer to the thread title, which one?
Which love? or which Jesus?
Posts: 241 | Registered: Apr 2015
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Latchkey Kid
Shipmate
# 12444
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
John 14:15
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+14%3A15&version=NASB
That seems to me to be the acid-test.
It doesn't say anything about whoozy emotional feelings there, does it?
Loving the Lord our God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength and our neighbour as ourselves is hard work. Whishty-whishty woozy-oozy feelings don't necessarily come into that ...
Do I love Christ?
To what extent am I obeying his commands?
John 21:15-17 moves from feelings to actions.
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'You must never give way for an answer. An answer is always the stretch of road that's behind you. Only a question can point the way forward.'
Mika; in Hello? Is Anybody There?, Jostein Gaardner
Posts: 2592 | From: The wizardest little town in Oz | Registered: Mar 2007
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Humble Servant:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
In answer to the thread title, which one?
Which love? or which Jesus?
In the title, "love" is a verb, so "which love" makes no sense.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
I understand about love being manifest in deeds rather than emotions. But if someone says 'I love Jesus', I don't think they are saying 'I act like the Good Samaritan acted', because that would be bragging.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
Anybody who goes around saying that in public (!) is no doubt an extrovert (and you can tell by my punctuation that I'm not). And so yes, I agree, such a person is probably referring mainly to feelings, though there's probably some kind of actions in there too. But it's certainly not just actions.
But then, there are plenty of us who have feelings (at times, and the felt nature and intensity of them can vary enormously--just as they do for any other loved person). We just rarely talk about them. And sometimes the most we can come up with internally or externally is "Lord, are you bugging me again????" and burying our heads under a pillow to avoid him.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
'Fuzzy emotional' and 'sloppy affection' are both about the rush of oxytocin we get when cuddling/looking at/touching a loved one. It leads to acts of kindness and caring. It's the glue which holds families and society together.
Why does it get such a bad press?
Jesus? I like Jesus and his ways therefore I try to follow him. I hope the things I do due to following him are acts of love (kindness, caring, thoughtful)
I can't love him as I would my father/son/dog as I can't see him or hear him or know him personally.
[ 28. March 2017, 06:56: Message edited by: Boogie ]
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I understand about love being manifest in deeds rather than emotions. But if someone says 'I love Jesus', I don't think they are saying 'I act like the Good Samaritan acted', because that would be bragging.
No, perhaps they aren't saying that. But Jesus was.
To me, this begs a few questions.
It's the thing from the First Epistle of John about love not being an issue of words but of action:
http://biblehub.com/1_john/3-18.htm
Does someone who is all bouncy and extrovert, proclaiming their love for Christ by wearing badges and going round telling everyone love Christ more than someone who is rather more reserved and starchy about the whole thing, but who is doing all sorts of things 'in secret' and not making a big song and dance about it?
Of course, we need both public proclamation and the inner-life or the 'show don't tell' approach - the old adage ascribed to St Francis of Assisi - 'Go into all the world and preach the Gospel. Use words if necessary.'
Sure, that can be misapplied and used as an excuse for not actually saying anything ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Like what?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
For me, I think it comes down to a question of what the Incarnation is *for*. God is Love. Love requires more than one person, so God cannot be One only. God is besotted with His Son, so overflowing with Love for Him that He created all of us so that we could see how beautiful and lovable His Son is too.
So loving Jesus is what I was created to do.
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
G. You trying to wind me up?
EM. I'm glad that works for you. There's no one I actually know that could possibly, meaningfully work for in any way, only against. Has it worked beyond you?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Erroneous Monk
Shipmate
# 10858
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
G. You trying to wind me up?
EM. I'm glad that works for you. There's no one I actually know that could possibly, meaningfully work for in any way, only against. Has it worked beyond you?
St John Of the Cross did quite well on it... ![[Biased]](wink.gif)
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And I shot a man in Tesco, just to watch him die.
Posts: 2950 | From: I cannot tell you, for you are not a friar | Registered: Jan 2006
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L'organist
Shipmate
# 17338
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Posted
Its the scatter-gun use of the word "love" that is at fault.
In the old testament the word lovingkindness is used more often, especially in the psalms, in the context of acting in a caring, compassionate and tender way towards someone.
Yes, the use of "love" in modern English (both kinds) usage has rather debased the word.
As for the bouncy-as-a-labrador type of person who comes out with the "I love Jesus" - sometimes adding a qualifier such as "as my Lord and Saviour" or "as my friend",etc - I have great difficulty in restraining the responses "Why?" or "As opposed to?".
There is also the variant, often posed as a question, "Do you know Jesus?", which also, IMO, cannot be answered in the affirmative.
So my gut response to the OP would be "No", because we cannot "love" (or "know") any historical personage we haven't met: we can admire reported deeds from a distance or, in the case of people nearer our own time, their writings, but we cannot know or love in the truest sense.
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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet
Posts: 4950 | From: somewhere in England... | Registered: Sep 2012
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Erroneous Monk:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
G. You trying to wind me up?
EM. I'm glad that works for you. There's no one I actually know that could possibly, meaningfully work for in any way, only against. Has it worked beyond you?
St John Of the Cross did quite well on it...
He couldn't now.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
You asked a sensible question Martin60 and I gave a silly answer ...
Actually, there was a serious point - which is that the Gospel can't be reduced to sound-bites and slogans.
There is, of course, a place for 'gossiping the Gospel' and 'witnessing' (I hate that term but I'm using it in a short-hand way) to our faith in Christ by discussing it with people and presenting it to them in some form ...
Ultimately too, of course, all our best efforts are inadequate and fail miserably yet despite all of that ...
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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Moo
Ship's tough old bird
# 107
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Posted
In Marriage Encounter there is a saying, "Love is a decision."
Moo
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Kerygmania host
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See you later, alligator.
Posts: 20365 | From: Alleghany Mountains of Virginia | Registered: May 2001
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Kwesi
Shipmate
# 10274
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Posted
While I have no dispute with the posts so far, I think we have to accommodate and recognise in some way the spiritualities reflected in the quotations below:-
Jesus, lover of my soul,
let me to thy bosom fly....
Charles Wesley
Perfect submission, all is at rest,
I in my Savior am happy and blest;
Watching and waiting, looking above,
Filled with His goodness, lost in His love.
Fanny Cosby
Posts: 1641 | From: South Ofankor | Registered: Sep 2005
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Gamaliel
Shipmate
# 812
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Posted
Sure, and similar sentiments are present across the various Christian traditions, it's simply that they are expressed differently.
There's always going to be an issue when trying to express the inexpressible. We inevitably end up anthropomorphising or drawing parallels with physical experience.
Some of the imagery of the medieval Mystics and the 17th century Metaphysical Poets can bring a blush to the cheek at times ...
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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Let us with a gladsome mind
Praise the Lord for He is kind.
http://philthebard.blogspot.com
Posts: 15997 | From: Cheshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Latchkey Kid:
John 21:15-17 moves from feelings to actions. [/QB][/QUOTE]
Interesting, though, that Jesus and Peter are using different Greek words for love. At the very least it shows how limiting the English language is having but one word for love. The interplay of agape v philio here may be simply stylistic, but it sounds to me more like Peter and Jesus are struggling a bit to get on the same page with what it means for a fallible human being (as Peter now knows himself to be) to dare to say he "loves Jesus".
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Green Mario
Shipmate
# 18090
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Posted
If love is just action why does 1 Corinthians talk about giving all your money to the poor, sacrificing yourself as well and this having no value if done without love?
Posts: 121 | Registered: Apr 2014
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Maybe it's OK to want to want to love Jesus.
Yes, I think that's a good point-- and probably the point of the John 21 passage. The way Jesus shifts at the end to using Peter's word for love seems to suggest he may be affirming and acknowledging Peter's more modest statement as an act of humble truth-telling-- "I love you as much as I can".
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
... Some of the imagery of the medieval Mystics and the 17th century Metaphysical Poets can bring a blush to the cheek at times ...
So might this well known work.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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Pomona
Shipmate
# 17175
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
Its the scatter-gun use of the word "love" that is at fault.
In the old testament the word lovingkindness is used more often, especially in the psalms, in the context of acting in a caring, compassionate and tender way towards someone.
Yes, the use of "love" in modern English (both kinds) usage has rather debased the word.
As for the bouncy-as-a-labrador type of person who comes out with the "I love Jesus" - sometimes adding a qualifier such as "as my Lord and Saviour" or "as my friend",etc - I have great difficulty in restraining the responses "Why?" or "As opposed to?".
There is also the variant, often posed as a question, "Do you know Jesus?", which also, IMO, cannot be answered in the affirmative.
So my gut response to the OP would be "No", because we cannot "love" (or "know") any historical personage we haven't met: we can admire reported deeds from a distance or, in the case of people nearer our own time, their writings, but we cannot know or love in the truest sense.
I love Jesus and I know Jesus, and Jesus tells us that we can do both through the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. The rich history of Catholic mysticism since the very early days of the Church affirms this, and mystics tend not to be bouncy Labrador type people.
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Consider the work of God: Who is able to straighten what he has bent? [Ecclesiastes 7:13]
Posts: 5319 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2012
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
[from the corner where I'm hiding ]
Yes, I love him too, in both senses, though I can't say as I'm very good at it. My fault, not his.
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gamaliel:
You asked a sensible question Martin60 and I gave a silly answer ...
Actually, there was a serious point - which is that the Gospel can't be reduced to sound-bites and slogans.
There is, of course, a place for 'gossiping the Gospel' and 'witnessing' (I hate that term but I'm using it in a short-hand way) to our faith in Christ by discussing it with people and presenting it to them in some form ...
Ultimately too, of course, all our best efforts are inadequate and fail miserably yet despite all of that ...
Hey G, you KNOW we cool. I was responding in kind. Just taking it to the next level.
You unintendedly caught me in your serious point. I'm always giving one line responses here.
You'd be ay-mazed and vastly amused at when I give an answer according to faith the most and only in fact. No one else ever asks. Ever. And I put myself about a bit. 1%
@Kwesi. When it's 'dark' and physicalism stares back, I LOVE to say, 'Nought be all else to me save that thou art.'.
@cliffdweller. Does Aramaic have the same play? Peter never declares agape - unconditional love - in the Greek. And it's Jesus who comes 'down' to Peter's use of brotherly love, as you note.
@leo. I want. I want to love like Him. I want to love Him like Him. I want to love my 86 going on 2 year old mother whom I'm RSM to, like He would. I haven't the faintest idea how, it's not in me. He moves me immensely. But not in my Mum.
@Green Mario. Aye. See my failure above. Oh and feeling love whilst doing nowt when you could is no better.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
Martin, Aramaic is beyond my pay grade. I'll let some less linguistically challenged shipmate answer that
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
Maybe we love Jesus via loving other people.
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
(I seem to be agreeing with Leo a lot lately.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
If that's based on how I feel, then I don't love Jesus through at least one person. Never will. Nothing I can do about it. The Holy Spirit neither.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
There is also the variant, often posed as a question, "Do you know Jesus?", which also, IMO, cannot be answered in the affirmative.
So my gut response to the OP would be "No", because we cannot "love" (or "know") any historical personage we haven't met: we can admire reported deeds from a distance or, in the case of people nearer our own time, their writings, but we cannot know or love in the truest sense.
That would be true of a historical person we haven't met, yes-- particularly if those historical persons are now dead. Those of us who do answer in the affirmative do not believe Jesus is dead, and since we answer the "do you 'know' Jesus" in the affirmative we are suggesting that we have, in fact, met him. So I believe we can know and love him in the truest sense-- which, as noted above, does not necessarily mean the sappy emo kind of love.
ymmv
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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PaulTH*
Shipmate
# 320
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Moo:
In Marriage Encounter there is a saying, "Love is a decision."
We are so used to our emotional understanding of love and also forgiveness, which is such an important aspect of the love we show to our fellow creatures, that we often miss the point that love is an act of will. So too forgiveness. It's the will to good towards all who come into our orbit. The Hebrew chesed, often translated as lovingkindness in English bibles, is the unbreakable flow of God's love to all his creatures. It's tempered by justice, but always results in mercy.
Where our love of Jesus is concerned we need to remember that he says "If you love me keep my commandments" and that his greatest commandment is "Love one another as I have loved you." So it's only in the love we show to others that our love for Jesus can be made real. But it still isn't an emotion, but to always flow outward in good will to others rather than inward to self-gratification. Of course we all make a pretty poor job of this because we're weak sinners. So we need, as much as possible to keep our lives directed Godward, always confessing our mistakes and seeking renewal in Him.
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Yours in Christ
Paul
Posts: 6387 | From: White Cliffs Country | Registered: May 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Read Team of Rivals last year. I always admired Lincoln. Now I unconditionally love him. Wept with and for him. More so than Dr. King I fear!
This guy.
There are people round here who can do no wrong. That's on the way. First step anyway.
Loving awesome people's easy.
If you don't love Jesus, you don't know Him. It's not your fault. And how we know Him depends on what we bring to the party.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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SvitlanaV2
Shipmate
# 16967
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Posted
I want to love Jesus because he first loved me.
Posts: 6668 | From: UK | Registered: Feb 2012
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I love my Jesus but I hate your's. And my Jesus can beat up your Jesus, and he's going to do it. (Did I just summarize a couple of thousand years of history?
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Anglican_Brat
Shipmate
# 12349
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Posted
In a Bible study in my previous parish, I asked "Who is Jesus to you?"
The response I got was "Jesus is everything"
Okay, what exactly do you mean by that?
Which is what I reply to the question and I'm finding the problem with some Christians, as in they throw out these trite sentimental sayings which is utterly meaningless in the concrete.
Do you love Jesus? What exactly does that mean? If it means going gaga over a picture of a blonde blue eyed man in the painting, that's rather pointless.
Or more the question, do you love Jesus as he comes as a drug addict on the street? Or Jesus as he comes as the homeless refugee fleeing from Syria, or Jesus as he comes as the person you dislike?
Because according to Matthew 25, if you don't love Jesus as he comes in those people, then you don't love Jesus at all.
Posts: 4332 | From: Vancouver | Registered: Feb 2007
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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
There is also the variant, often posed as a question, "Do you know Jesus?", which also, IMO, cannot be answered in the affirmative.
So my gut response to the OP would be "No", because we cannot "love" (or "know") any historical personage we haven't met: we can admire reported deeds from a distance or, in the case of people nearer our own time, their writings, but we cannot know or love in the truest sense.
That would be true of a historical person we haven't met, yes-- particularly if those historical persons are now dead. Those of us who do answer in the affirmative do not believe Jesus is dead, and since we answer the "do you 'know' Jesus" in the affirmative we are suggesting that we have, in fact, met him. So I believe we can know and love him in the truest sense-- which, as noted above, does not necessarily mean the sappy emo kind of love.
ymmv
I agree with this.
The trouble is that it's almost impossible to find words for the ... communication, communion? that can and does exist between Christ and his people in spite of the lack of five-senses stuff like vision and hearing. It's real, but I haven't got the vocabulary for it. Which might be why some people go hunting in the language of romantic or erotic love trying to find expression--it isn't exactly that, but in terms of strength and commitment it comes closer than simple admiration.
And it doesn't imply absence at all--doesn't abide absence in the sense of being cut off entirely, as I am, say, from Abraham Lincoln. If I try to talk about him behind his back (as it were), as if he were not present--it just feels wrong, like getting a shirt on backwards...
And of course this is all enormously more complicated by the fact that God deals differently with different souls, and even differently with the same soul at different times, and so one person may have a much more emotionally-toned interaction with the Lord than another (or than the same person at a different time).
Bleah, vocabulary.
[ 29. March 2017, 05:17: Message edited by: Lamb Chopped ]
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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!
Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
And the next question - at least in Sydney Anglican, and other equally as fundamentalist, surroundings - is "Have you accepted Him as your personal saviour? I say that I have not, He is the saviour of all mankind. That sends them away very quickly.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
I love my Jesus but I hate your's. And my Jesus can beat up your Jesus, and he's going to do it. (Did I just summarize a couple of thousand years of history?
Yes ![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
@Lamb Chopped. Interaction?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Two way?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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