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Source: (consider it) Thread: Nurse disciplined for praying with patients
leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by Huia:
quote:
Originally posted by SvitlanaV2:
[QUOTE]Special classes in cultural awareness for all nurses, whether trained in the UK or abroad, might need to be introduced.

I would be surprised if such classes don't exist already. I know that the nursing degree at the local Polytech has a cultural awareness component.

Huia

They are part of every Nurse's training in the UK. The major world faiths are explained although on reading the first edition (it may now be changed), it's hard not to come away with the impression that all faiths aren't created equal.
This wasn't believed to be adequate 11 years ago when I was asked by a hospital chaplain to 'top it up' with some extra training sessions.
Well, both you and the Chaplain acted illegally.
How so?

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ExclamationMark
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# 14715

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quote:
Originally posted by leo:
How so?

The NHS training was and is, assumed to be sufficient. Anything else would have gone beyond guidelines, technically rendering the chaplain to disciplinary proceedings. Of course if you do it outside the system, that's up to you.

NHS training - given to all - should in theory at least, mean that everyone starts at the same page.

Posts: 3631 | From: A new Jerusalem | Registered: Apr 2009  |  IP: Logged
Adeodatus
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# 4992

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quote:
Originally posted by ExclamationMark:
quote:
Originally posted by leo:
How so?

The NHS training was and is, assumed to be sufficient. Anything else would have gone beyond guidelines, technically rendering the chaplain to disciplinary proceedings. Of course if you do it outside the system, that's up to you.

NHS training - given to all - should in theory at least, mean that everyone starts at the same page.

Sorry, but this is rubbish. Even basic medical and nursing education varies a bit between universities, beyond a core syllabus - hence, for example, some nurses getting training on spiritual care in their undergraduate course, and some not.

Even so, NHS Trusts have enormous choice in what they provide as post-qualification training. The main requirement for staff is that attendance at any training has to be justified in each staff member's training plan as identified at their annual review. If a chaplain can convince nurse managers that training in spiritual care is needed, it'll go on the Trust's syllabus.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

Posts: 9721 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
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# 3330

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I know nothing, of course, but I suspect if the chaplain unilaterally declared that all nursing staff had to take compulsory spiritual seminars without discussion with whoever-it-is, this might well be acting outwith of his authority and role.

But I find it hard to believe that a chaplain acting to provide training mandated by the Trust (if a nurse was found to be weak and require retraining) or following proper processes to put the training within the ongoing nurse training is acting "illegally".

I think even a chaplain mentioning to a nurse that he/she might benefit from some additional voluntary training (providing this was in full knowledge of the trust) is acting legally.

One would have thought the only possible illegality would be if the chaplain was doing something underhand or somehow blackmailing the nurse - by having some kind of power over them to insist on non-mandatory training which if refused would cost their job.

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I know nothing, of course, but I suspect if the chaplain unilaterally declared that all nursing staff had to take compulsory spiritual seminars without discussion with whoever-it-is, this might well be acting outwith of his authority and role.

But I find it hard to believe that a chaplain acting to provide training mandated by the Trust (if a nurse was found to be weak and require retraining) or following proper processes to put the training within the ongoing nurse training is acting "illegally".

I think even a chaplain mentioning to a nurse that he/she might benefit from some additional voluntary training (providing this was in full knowledge of the trust) is acting legally.

One would have thought the only possible illegality would be if the chaplain was doing something underhand or somehow blackmailing the nurse - by having some kind of power over them to insist on non-mandatory training which if refused would cost their job.

You're right. In-house training programmes are always overcrowded, with every department clamouring "but nurses need training in [insert my subject here]!" In order to get something on the programme, you need to show that a measureable benefit will be achieved which is in line with national and Trust-level objectives. (You will also have to have it ok'ed by your own manager that you can spend time developing and delivering the training - after all, you have other work to do that may take priority.) But if you can do that, and can get a foot in the door with your education department, all you have to do then is be fabulous when you're delivering the training.

It sounds a terrible faff, but the bottom line is that every discipline within the NHS should be able to deminstrate that it's spending public money (and time, which is money) responsibly and for the best achievable results.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

Posts: 9721 | From: Manchester | Registered: Sep 2003  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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The article says the nurse's praying often meant she failed to complete the pre-op form! I always speak with my pre-op nurse at great length about what I want her to tell my anesthesiologist. ( I tend to go deep and not want to come back, with my blood oxygen dropping very low.)It's important stuff! Apart from all else she's not doing a good job.

My dentist always asks if we can pray together first. I don't mind his prayers as much as all the right wing politics I have to listen to while my mouth is full and I can't argue back. He's the most unskilled dentist I've ever had, actually a bit dangerous, so while he's praying for me I'm usually praying that he have a steady hand and not be as stupid as usual.

For years I've noticed that the people who advertise their Christianity the loudest, are so often the ones who are doing the very worst job of witnessing. The terrible driver with the Jesus stickers on the bumper, the Christian Carpet Cleaners, who don't show up on their appointed day, the big after church group in the restaurant that doesn't tip. I try to never let anyone know I'm a Christian unless I'm determined to be perfect that day, so like never.

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Helen-Eva
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# 15025

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
I try to never let anyone know I'm a Christian unless I'm determined to be perfect that day, so like never.

TANGENT ALERT

There's definitely a teaching somewhere (Matthew 5:48 according to the good people at Google) that says "you must be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect". Seems totally unreasonable to me. How the **** am I supposed to be perfect?? Not gonna happen. Maybe I need to take this to Kergymania for assistance and explication.

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I thought the radio 3 announcer said "Weber" but it turned out to be Webern. Story of my life.

Posts: 577 | From: London, hopefully in a theatre or concert hall, more likely at work | Registered: Aug 2009  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Twilight - go to another dentist. Now. Seriously.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7795 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Anselmina
Ship's barmaid
# 3032

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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:


For years I've noticed that the people who advertise their Christianity the loudest, are so often the ones who are doing the very worst job of witnessing.

The only duff car I've ever bought was off a guy who couldn't shut up about the very well known Pentecostal Church he went to; and how great it was we were 'brother and sister' in Christ, and how his good, godly conscience wouldn't let him sell an unfit car, especially to a fellow Christian, praise the Lord, etc etc. It lasted about six months after giving me no end of trouble, and I ended up having to sell it for scrap.

When it comes to paying hard earned cash for goods and services, give me a competent, honest agnostic/atheist over a full-of-crap corner-cutting Christian any day.

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Latest news on this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-kent-39443613

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 7795 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged



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