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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: UK General Election June 8th 2017
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
Evidence shows that the Tories have been the biggest borrowers over the past 70 years. This article shows that:
quote:
Labour do walk the talk: they repay national debt much more often in absolute and percentage terms than the Conservatives. In fact, one in four Labour years saw debt repaid. That was true in less than one in ten Conservative years.
and
quote:
First, Labour invariably borrows less than the Conservatives. The data always shows that.
And second, Labour has always repaid debt more often than the Conservatives, and has always repaid more debt, on average.
Furthermore, since 2010, the debt has written by 50%. Sauce
To conclude, if you want a government who burdens the state with less debt, vote Labour.
Of course, that 500bn investment would be to boost the economy and provide jobs and housing. It wouldn't be for bonuses for bankers, subsidised by government.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555
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Posted
Is any party proposing raising (direct) taxation - and not just on the rich - to pay for their spending plans?
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Refraction Villanelles
Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
My issue has always been more with his incompetence rather than his policies as such.
Well I disagree with his policies as well. Pumping £500 billion into an already debt ridden economy is a complete folly which will store up untold troubles for future generations.
That's a fairly good example of the distinction I'm making. AIUI, the economics is sound provided that the economic growth generated by whatever you spend the £500bn on is greater than the growth in the national debt, and I see no evidence to suggest Mr Corbyn possesses the requisite financial acumen to ensure this would happen.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
The "cut national debt at all costs" is a relatively modern economic theory held by a minority of right-wing economists, but it's loved by right-wing politicians because they can sell it as like cutting household debt (which people can understand), even though the analogy is weak at best (totally misleading would be a better description). That left-leaning economists and politicians favour other economic theories doesn't make them wrong, unless you have an a-priori reason to trust right winger over left wingers.
The left tend to invest, even if that's at the expense of borrowing. And, well planned investments pay back. Invest in the care sector such that people can be looked after at home (or, even better support themselves) and you get pay back from reductions in hospital stays (which are much more expensive). Invest in education and you get the skilled workforce for future economic growth. Invest in public transport and you get people to and from work more easily, and increase productivity. Invest in affordable and social housing in locations near where people work and you reduce commute times - with less tired staff and increased productivity.
Rewarding bankers who wreck the economy with bail-outs doesn't seem to be giving any return to the public purse.
There's a difference between "tax and spend" and "tax and invest".
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
My issue has always been more with his incompetence rather than his policies as such.
Well I disagree with his policies as well. Pumping £500 billion into an already debt ridden economy is a complete folly which will store up untold troubles for future generations.
That's a fairly good example of the distinction I'm making. AIUI, the economics is sound provided that the economic growth generated by whatever you spend the £500bn on is greater than the growth in the national debt, and I see no evidence to suggest Mr Corbyn possesses the requisite financial acumen to ensure this would happen.
And George Osborne? No "What if?" is needed. He was Chancellor of the Exchequer and he was a bloody awful Chancellor of the Exchequer. The worst for decades if not centuries. Wedded to the concept of "Austerity" even when six years of it had achieved nothing. Hammond looks a genius by comparison. Corbyn, or better still another anti-Brexit PM could find a better chancellor by hooking a random stranger off the street.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
AIUI, the economics is sound provided that the economic growth generated by whatever you spend the £500bn on is greater than the growth in the national debt
The idea that there are no 'shovel ready' programs in the UK is somewhat laughable given the parlous state of the country's infrastructure. Additionally, a significant amount of the cuts have been directed maintenance of existing infrastructure - which will build up to a very expensive bill in the future (roads being the obvious example), on balance even reversing these cuts alone would have a salutary effect and will actually save money in the future.
and you aren't necessarily betting on Corbyn's financial acumen, rather than acumen of the kinds of people he is likely to appoint.
[ 21. April 2017, 10:18: Message edited by: chris stiles ]
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
Additionally, a significant amount of the cuts have been directed maintenance of existing infrastructure - which will build up to a very expensive bill in the future (roads being the obvious example)
Which is an example of what happens when you're only looking at the balance sheet for the current year, or even Parliamentary term. Even if the cuts in investment were resulting in a cut in current government borrowing (which they aren't), the resulting reduction in national debt is only in current cash flow - it's also building a debt of future work (which doesn't go into the books for this year, and so is invisible if that's all you look at). In the medium-long term investment in maintaining infrastructure reduces debt - but only if you look at the larger picture rather than the current set of books.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
AIUI, the economics is sound provided that the economic growth generated by whatever you spend the £500bn on is greater than the growth in the national debt
The idea that there are no 'shovel ready' programs in the UK is somewhat laughable given the parlous state of the country's infrastructure.
And yet nowhere on the Labour Party website* can I find any specifics on which of those shovel-ready infrastructure projects is going to be funded by this £500bn investment. High-Speed Rail across the Pennines? Dedicated freight lines to separate freight and passenger traffic on the railways? An M62 relief road round Manchester? Expanded ports for post-Panamax container traffic? The impression given is that he pitched for a nice dramatic round number first, and will work out how to spend it later.
(This is also an example of Mr Corbyn's atrocious media management. If he had specified the projects he wanted first, and then said 'funded by borrowing, to be recouped by the economic benefits of the infrastructure', then Labour would have a chance of being 'the party that will give us new railways (or whatever)'. Instead, by making the £500bn the headline announcement, with only the vaguest indication of where the £500bn is going, he ensures that Labour instead becomes 'the party who will add £500bn to the national debt', because that is the only specific thing he has said about the investment.)
quote:
and you aren't necessarily betting on Corbyn's financial acumen, rather than acumen of the kinds of people he is likely to appoint.
Well, given Mr Corbyn's current record of appointing people (e.g. to his media team), and his aforementioned inability to work with people who are on the same part of the political spectrum as him, that's not a bet I'm willing to take.
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* Which admittedly makes your average church website look like a textbook example of usability.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Or the inability of even his allies to articulate what he actually wants to achieve in concrete terms.
On the other hand, I'm not seeing any evidence that Theresa May is any better at making concrete policy proposals. She's just got a better media operation that is better at hiding it.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Or the inability of even his allies to articulate what he actually wants to achieve in concrete terms.
On the other hand, I'm not seeing any evidence that Theresa May is any better at making concrete policy proposals. She's just got a better media operation that is better at hiding it.
Being scrupulously fair to all sides on this one, we're presumably about to get manifestos
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And is it true? For if it is....
Posts: 1481 | From: behind the dreaming spires | Registered: Mar 2013
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
we're presumably about to get manifestos
Yes you are ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
Who would British companies (and wealthy people) likely to be financially damaged by Brexit (think companies dependent on exports to the EU, City of London Financial firms, etc.) donate to in this election?
Would they donate to the Lib Dems in order to try to reduce the risk they would lose financial passporting in Brexit (in the case of the City) or face tariffs or regulatory burdens in exporting to the EU (even if Brexit happens anyway)? Or would they donate to Tory candidates who are in favor of a softer Brexit and are willing to compromise on issues like immigration to defend passporting and the ability for UK exports to compete with EU firms on a level playing field? Does anyone know what donations are already being made by various business interests and to what parties/candidates within the parties?
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Garden Hermit
Shipmate
# 109
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Posted
The EU countries and UK both want to keep trading with each other with No Barriers. The EU are going to find it very difficult without the UKs financial contribution. Therefore they will want some recompense in exchange. That's all the Negotiations are about - £££££s. It doesn't matter who is in power. Don't worry about Brexit.
Posts: 1413 | From: Reading UK | Registered: May 2001
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
It is possible that May has called the election now because (apart from wanting to take advantage of Labour's dire straits) she wants a bigger majority & longer time window in which to negotiate a business-friendly Brexit (continuity of open markets & cheap labour.) This is what the Tory donors want but it is definitely not what the folks who voted Brexit had in mind. By the time they work out they've been conned she'll have had a good innings and it'll be time to hand over to the next guy/gal.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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betjemaniac
Shipmate
# 17618
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
a business-friendly Brexit (continuity of open markets & cheap labour.) This is what the Tory donors want but it is definitely not what the folks who voted Brexit had in mind. By the time they work out they've been conned she'll have had a good innings and it'll be time to hand over to the next guy/gal.
Although oddly it would probably work for the more pragmatic leavers and remainers. Disingenuously and for the wrong reasons getting to a reasonable place.
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And is it true? For if it is....
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
and his aforementioned inability to work with people who are on the same part of the political spectrum as him,
You keep repeating this as if it's a known fact, but knowing a fair few people on Corbyn's part of the political spectrum, and knowing a couple of them who have worked with Corbyn for years, it's not supported by the evidence. I know there are people who have refused to work with him, but that doesn't tell us anything about Corbyn's abilities so much as it tells us the sort of petulant sulks that "centrists" get into when they lose internal elections.
Posts: 2933 | From: Hebrides | Registered: Apr 2012
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Rosa Winkel
Saint Anger round my neck
# 11424
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Posted
In his first Shadow Cabinet, Corbyn chose the following people:
Angela Eagle, someone who was liked by Blair, voted for the Iraq war (and three times against investigating it).
Andy Burnham, someone who was his main challenger.
Hilary Benn, someone pro-nuclear weapons and of course, someone who supported Burham in the 2015 leadership election.
Chris Bryant, who backed Yvonne Cooper in the leadership election of 2015.
Veron Croaker, who chaired Cooper's leadership campaign.
Maria Eagle, who is pro-Trident.
To summarise, he chose people who think politically different to him. As stated above by Arethosemyfeet, later opposition to him came from the centrists.
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The Disability and Jesus "Locked out for Lent" project
Posts: 3271 | From: Wrocław | Registered: May 2006
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PaulTH*
Shipmate
# 320
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
but that doesn't tell us anything about Corbyn's abilities so much as it tells us the sort of petulant sulks that "centrists" get into when they lose internal elections.
Perhaps it not all petulant sulking. There are many of us who are proud to be centrists, who believe that the British people respond best to consensus politics, not to being taken over by McCluskey's evil cabal. The same McCluskey who just got re-elected narrowly on a 12.2% turnout and is already wreaking revenge on the man who dared to challenge him. An inspirational lesson in democracy indeed!
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Yours in Christ
Paul
Posts: 6387 | From: White Cliffs Country | Registered: May 2001
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
and his aforementioned inability to work with people who are on the same part of the political spectrum as him,
You keep repeating this as if it's a known fact, but knowing a fair few people on Corbyn's part of the political spectrum, and knowing a couple of them who have worked with Corbyn for years, it's not supported by the evidence. I know there are people who have refused to work with him, but that doesn't tell us anything about Corbyn's abilities so much as it tells us the sort of petulant sulks that "centrists" get into when they lose internal elections.
Exhibit A: David Blanchflower - no internal elections here
Exhibit B: Simon Wren-Lewis - ditto
Exhibit C: Thomas Piketty - as above; he left due to work commitments but that didn't stop him sticking the boot in on his way out
Exhibit D: Lilian Greenwood - here is her voting record if you want to argue that she is a centrist and doesn't count
Exhibit E: Thangam Debbonaire - for obvious reasons she doesn't have much of a voting record so it's hard to judge if she's a centrist or not
Exhibit F: Kerry McCarthy - here is her voting record - I'll give you her votes relating to defence as taking her outside of Mr Corbyn's part of the Labour spectrum but everything else seems pretty unobjectionable
Exhibit G: Clive Lewis
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
In his first Shadow Cabinet, Corbyn chose the following people:
Angela Eagle, someone who was liked by Blair, voted for the Iraq war (and three times against investigating it).
Andy Burnham, someone who was his main challenger.
Hilary Benn, someone pro-nuclear weapons and of course, someone who supported Burham in the 2015 leadership election.
Chris Bryant, who backed Yvonne Cooper in the leadership election of 2015.
Veron Croaker, who chaired Cooper's leadership campaign.
Maria Eagle, who is pro-Trident.
To summarise, he chose people who think politically different to him. As stated above by Arethosemyfeet, later opposition to him came from the centrists.
And let's not forget that a number of those people spent their time in the shadow cabinet briefing against Corbyn off the record.
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rosa Winkel:
To summarise, he chose people who think politically different to him.
I had a fair amount of time for Mr Corbyn during the period his first Shadow Cabinet. But one can't simultaneously say how open-minded Mr Corbyn is for inviting people who disagree with him into his Cabinet, and then complain that those people do in fact disagree with him.
quote:
As stated above by Arethosemyfeet, later opposition to him came from the centrists.
That a particular criticism of Mr Corbyn comes from the centre isn't the knockdown argument against Mr Corbyn's incompetence that his supporters seem to think it is.
The argument seems to be that if centrists makes a complaint against Mr Corbyn, then their complaint must be have a political agenda because they can't tolerate Mr Corbyn's politics, and therefore can be discounted. We might as well say that all of Mr Corbyn's criticisms of Mr Blair are similarly invalid because they were politically motivated or because Mr Corbyn was in a petulant strop that Blairism and not Corbynism was the dominant philosophy in the Labour Party.
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Exhibit H: The utter chaos in Mr Corbyn's staff team - again nothing to do with internal elections.
A bit like the PMs Chief of Staff and Press Secretary leaving the day after she announced the election then?
What gives you the impression that I support the PM?
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
Exhibit H: The utter chaos in Mr Corbyn's staff team - again nothing to do with internal elections.
A bit like the PMs Chief of Staff and Press Secretary leaving the day after she announced the election then?
What gives you the impression that I support the PM?
I don't necessarily. But a couple of people leaving isn't necessarily a indicative of 'utter chaos' - you need to establish a baseline of churn.
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
I take your point - but as Ms May (in some sources at least) has a reputation for being difficult to work for, I'm not sure that's the baseline I'd choose ...
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
So, the two-party paradigm gives you the choice of a PM who is difficult to work for and a PM who is difficult to work for.
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
I take your point - but as Ms May (in some sources at least) has a reputation for being difficult to work for, I'm not sure that's the baseline I'd choose ...
There is no baseline of anything in this mess that I would choose.
lilBuddha - desperately wishing for an intelligent species to arise or arrive
[ 23. April 2017, 17:01: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
lilBuddha - desperately wishing for an intelligent species to arise or arrive
That would be the Scots. Nicola for PM?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
lilBuddha - desperately wishing for an intelligent species to arise or arrive
That would be the Scots. Nicola for PM?
PM for an independent Scotland. Let's rebuild Hadrian's wall. I'll walk its ramparts to repel the southern barbarians. We can use Trident to guard the sea borders.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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rolyn
Shipmate
# 16840
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Posted
If Corbyn gets in with his Bank Holiday bribe you can keep Trident as he won't be needing it.
[ 23. April 2017, 18:35: Message edited by: rolyn ]
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Change is the only certainty of existence
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Arethosemyfeet
Shipmate
# 17047
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
We might as well say that all of Mr Corbyn's criticisms of Mr Blair are similarly invalid because they were politically motivated or because Mr Corbyn was in a petulant strop that Blairism and not Corbynism was the dominant philosophy in the Labour Party.
The comparison is invalid because Corbyn pretty much always was open about it being Blair's policies he disagreed with. The right of the Labour Party stirred up accusations of incompetence rather than argue for their political ideas (presumably because they either don't have any beyond aping the tories or they know they can't win with them). It's become abundantly clear that the right of the party (including Blair, today) would rather have a tory government than a left wing Labour one.
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
lilBuddha - desperately wishing for an intelligent species to arise or arrive
That would be the Scots. Nicola for PM?
PM for an independent Scotland. Let's rebuild Hadrian's wall. I'll walk its ramparts to repel the southern barbarians. We can use Trident to guard the sea borders.
You do realise of course that Hadrian's Wall is entirely within England? From Wallsend in the east to Bowness-on Solway in the west.....
Of course Nicola might have some expansionist ideas.....
![[Biased]](wink.gif)
Actually that sounds like a good idea.....hmmm......I wonder if Wales can get in on the act? I like Scotland
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Anglican't
Shipmate
# 15292
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
The right of the Labour Party stirred up accusations of incompetence rather than argue for their political ideas
Did you ever watch the Vice News documentary about Corbyn?
The story in today's Sunday Times about the incompetence of Corbyn's office is quite interesting. Apparently there are tens of thousands of letters to Corbyn that are unopened because no-one has arranged for them to be opened.
Posts: 3613 | From: London, England | Registered: Nov 2009
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Enoch
Shipmate
# 14322
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
... It's become abundantly clear that the right of the party (including Blair, today) would rather have a tory government than a left wing Labour one.
That is neither what he said, nor what he meant - and you know it.
The not-very-hidden message I read into what he was saying was 'things were better when I was running the show. What you all need is for me to come back again'. You may deplore even the thought of such a thing, but that isn't what you're accusing him of either saying or thinking.
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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson
Posts: 7610 | From: Bristol UK(was European Green Capital 2015, now Ljubljana) | Registered: Nov 2008
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stonespring
Shipmate
# 15530
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
... It's become abundantly clear that the right of the party (including Blair, today) would rather have a tory government than a left wing Labour one.
That is neither what he said, nor what he meant - and you know it.
The not-very-hidden message I read into what he was saying was 'things were better when I was running the show. What you all need is for me to come back again'. You may deplore even the thought of such a thing, but that isn't what you're accusing him of either saying or thinking.
I'm an outsider but from what I've heard Blair say on other occasions it seems he wants to do anything he can to stop Brexit or make it as soft as possible - and he is encouraging people to vote for whatever candidate in their district seems most likely to make that happen, regardless of party. Or am I getting him all wrong?
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
It's become abundantly clear that the right of the party (including Blair, today) would rather have a tory government than a left wing Labour one.
Blair was calling on people to vote for whomever could best oppose the present Tory government on Brexit. As opposed to Corbyn who is definitely going to bark at May's Brexit plans a lot tomorrow once he's finished rolling over and letting her tickle his tummy. It's bark tomorrow and bark yesterday but always roll over and tummy tickles today with Corbyn.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
I like Corbyn's sense of priorities - Day 3 of an election campaign, he announces a policy to introduce 4 new public holidays, one for each of the patron saints.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I like Corbyn's sense of priorities - Day 3 of an election campaign, he announces a policy to introduce 4 new public holidays, one for each of the patron saints.
Yes, the Alastair Campbell message grid is clearly still in use, keeping all Labour campaigners firmly focussed on the most vital issues of our national life and helping them avoid getting sucked into pointless arguments over irrelevant trivia.
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I like Corbyn's sense of priorities - Day 3 of an election campaign, he announces a policy to introduce 4 new public holidays, one for each of the patron saints.
In a time where the Union's been put under more and more stress by a government that doesn't care about the country, it's not irrational.
Posts: 1643 | Registered: May 2006
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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411
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Posted
More specifically, many Scots feel ignored by being "dragged by England", particularly given the way the promises of the referendum before were broken.
Northern Ireland is in a difficult situation also with the brexit vote, and realistically, a competent government is going to need to make a bespoke arrangement for it (and Gibraltor) (bets we don't get one) that meets with the approval of the country to the south and doesn't divide a barely mended divide.
The far right have claimed the flag of St George.
And we English always whine about the Scots getting their day off anyway (even if it is at the cost of another, we forget that). (More cynically the right media labled Ed's father as the man who hated Britain, and exploited comments in Kent to make labour seem anti St George)
Then there's Wales, who's flag is missed out already.
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lilBuddha
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# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
You do realise of course that Hadrian's Wall is entirely within England?
It just suits purpose so perfectly. Call the extra bit interest on the loan of a country or penalties for the abuse of same.
quote:
Actually that sounds like a good idea.....hmmm......I wonder if Wales can get in on the act? I like Scotland
Terrific idea! Surround them and keep them in line.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
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Clint Boggis
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# 633
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
I'm an outsider but from what I've heard Blair say on other occasions it seems he wants to do anything he can to stop Brexit or make it as soft as possible - and he is encouraging people to vote for whatever candidate in their district seems most likely to make that happen, regardless of party. Or am I getting him all wrong?
No, you're quite right - I heard him say exactly that on BBC R4 this morning.
Posts: 1505 | From: south coast | Registered: Jun 2001
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
More specifically, many Scots feel ignored by being "dragged by England", particularly given the way the promises of the referendum before were broken.
Northern Ireland is in a difficult situation also with the brexit vote, and realistically, a competent government is going to need to make a bespoke arrangement for it (and Gibraltor) (bets we don't get one) that meets with the approval of the country to the south and doesn't divide a barely mended divide.
The far right have claimed the flag of St George.
And we English always whine about the Scots getting their day off anyway (even if it is at the cost of another, we forget that). (More cynically the right media labled Ed's father as the man who hated Britain, and exploited comments in Kent to make labour seem anti St George)
Then there's Wales, who's flag is missed out already.
This seems to run counter to your preceding post.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
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Marvin the Martian
Interplanetary
# 4360
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gee D:
I like Corbyn's sense of priorities - Day 3 of an election campaign, he announces a policy to introduce 4 new public holidays, one for each of the patron saints.
It's the best policy either side has announced so far. Right wing, left wing, capitalism, socialism, brexit, bremain - I have opinions about all of these. But offer me four extra days off work and by Jove I'll ignore them all
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Hail Gallaxhar
Posts: 30100 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003
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Gee D
Shipmate
# 13815
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
How?
Your earlier post talks of increasing divisions between the various constituents of the UK; this proposal gives greater emphasis to separate traditions.
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Not every Anglican in Sydney is Sydney Anglican
Posts: 7028 | From: Warrawee NSW Australia | Registered: Jun 2008
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Alan Cresswell
Mad Scientist 先生
# 31
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Posted
Anyone want to lay bets on if we get 4 more bank holidays then we will also have our annual leave cut by 4 days?
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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.
Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001
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beatmenace
Shipmate
# 16955
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Clint Boggis:
quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
I'm an outsider but from what I've heard Blair say on other occasions it seems he wants to do anything he can to stop Brexit or make it as soft as possible - and he is encouraging people to vote for whatever candidate in their district seems most likely to make that happen, regardless of party. Or am I getting him all wrong?
No, you're quite right - I heard him say exactly that on BBC R4 this morning.
Is that then blatantly encouraging someone to vote against an official Labour candidate?
I thought you could be expelled from the party for doing that.
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"I'm the village idiot , aspiring to great things." (The Icicle Works)
Posts: 297 | From: Whitley Bay | Registered: Feb 2012
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