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Source: (consider it) Thread: The Martian Party General Election Manifesto
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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As the lead representative of The Martian Party ("no, we're the other red one"), the upcoming UK General Election has motivated me to set out our manifesto for ruling the country. Let's see how many of you would actually vote for it rather than any of the other Party offerings...

Brexit

  • The people have spoken, and we will respect their decision. The UK will cease to be a member of the EU. We will seek the best possible deal for the UK economy in Brexit negotiations.

The Economy

Surplus/Deficit

  • We will not obsess over reducing the national deficit if doing so brings hardship to the people, however the principle of keeping it as low as possible should be maintained wherever practicable.

Trade

  • An island nation is, by necessity, a trading nation. We will seek beneficial trade deals with new partners and growing markets across the globe, most notably China, India and South America.
  • In Europe, we will negotiate the best possible relationship for the UK with the EU. We do not consider that this necessarily involves membership of the single market, neither do we rule out membership (the so-called “Norway model”) if it ends up being the best deal we can get.

Inflation

  • The Bank of England will continue to be empowered to keep inflation to a minimum.

Banking

  • There will be a new law requiring all current accounts that are in credit to be paid interest at a rate no less than 7.5% of the interest rate charged to the same account when overdrawn (e.g if the interest rate charged when overdrawn is 10% then the interest rate paid when in credit can not be lower than 0.75%).

Employment

  • We will create jobs in many deprived areas through increased spending on defence and transport.
  • We will mandate that all contracts must be for a stated number of hours and/or a stated set of tasks – zero hour contracts with no stated tasks to be completed will no longer be acceptable.
  • The full amount of parental leave will be available to either parent (but not both) rather than only the mother. This recognises that in some families the mother may wish to return to work as soon as possible after birth while the father takes care of the child. In cases where the father claims the full parental leave allowance the mother will be eligible for the two-week leave allowance currently known as paternity leave. This will also apply to couples adopting children.

Minimum Wage

  • The minimum wage will be abolished, and replaced by a new law that states no company can pay its highest earners more than 60 times what its lowest earners are paid (annual Full Time equivalent). This includes all share options, dividends, benefits and bonuses in both cases. If board members want to give themselves high salaries, they’ll have to increase the pay of their staff as well.
  • There will be exceptions to this law for organisations in sectors where some high-paid employees are also seen as physical assets of the company (e.g. football clubs). In those cases the law will only apply to non-asset employees.

Tax

Income Tax Bands

  • £0 to £11,000 @0%
  • £11,001 to £50,000 @ 20%
  • £50,001 to £100,000 @ 30%
  • £100,001 to £300,000 @ 45%
  • £300,000+ @ 50%

National Insurance

  • £0 to £11,000 @2.5%
  • £11,001 to £250,000 @ 10%
  • Employer contribution to be 14% of employee salary with no upper limit (companies with more than 10 employees only).

VAT

  • Will remain at 20%

Corporation Tax

  • Corporation tax to be a flat rate of 22.5% of pre-tax profits.
  • Companies headquartered in countries other than the UK will be charged this rate on all profits generated in the UK before any payments to overseas-based subsidiaries of the same company are subtracted. This will help to prevent accounting tricks to avoid tax by using tax havens, as well as encouraging companies to favour supply chain relationships within the UK.

Council Tax/Business Rates

  • Council Tax and Business Rate bands are confusing and outdated. They will instead be replaced by an annual tax of 0.75% of the last purchase price paid for any property, to be paid by the property owner. This will reduce the tax burden on those living in low-value properties while increasing it for those living in high-value ones, and will also work to stop rampant house price inflation.
  • The tax will apply to any land or property, whether it is occupied or not. This will encourage the owners of vacant properties to either use, sell or rent them to people who need a place to live and/or do business.

Inheritance Tax

  • Abolished

Welfare

  • Those who are legitimately unable to work should not starve or be homeless. We will mandate a standard unemployment benefit of £75 per week for anyone with total savings (including current accounts) of less than £10,000, on the condition that all recipients can demonstrate that they are actively seeking work. If the claimant is homeless then we will also provide them with adequate accommodation.
  • Note that the only requirement is that the person be actively seeking work, and there is no maximum time limit in which they have to find it. However, repeatedly turning down job offers or refusing to apply for available jobs without good reason will be considered to not be actively seeking work.
  • Those who are assessed by an independent medical professional (consultant, GP, etc.) as unable to work will receive the benefit of £75 per week as well as any additional resources they need in order to cope with their medical situation (including suitable accommodation if required). Where possible, these additional resources will be provided in kind rather than as cash payments.
  • Anyone with total savings (including current accounts) of less than £10,000 who is unemployed, not actively seeking work, and not assessed as unable to do so will be provided with adequate accommodation, clothing, food and drink as required, but will not receive any cash benefit.
  • Child benefit will only be paid to any household with gross earnings less than £100,000pa.

Pensions

  • All employers must provide a pension plan to their employees (the workplace pension). There will no longer be the option for employees to opt out of this scheme. Pension contributions made by both employees and employers can be deducted from their National Insurance payments.
  • The minimum weekly pension (MWP) will be set at £125, increasing annually in line with the RPI and recalculated at the start of each financial year. Any individuals older than 65 whose private pension plan(s) fail(s) to reach the MWP will have it topped up to that level by the government. Individuals who take early retirement for reasons other than ill health will not be eligible for this top-up until they turn 65.

Devolution

  • The principle that smaller political units are more democratically accountable to their people than larger ones is one to which we hold. As such, we will never refuse a request for an independence referendum from any constituent part of the UK so long as such a request is supported by at least a third of the population of that constituent part. Any and all such independence referendums will require a 60% vote in favour to be carried, upon which negotiations will begin concerning the terms upon which independence will be granted and the political and economic relationships between the soon-to-be-independent country and the remaining UK. There will be no expectation that the rUK will treat the newly-independent country favourably in said negotiations – independence means independence, for better or worse.
  • This principle also means that local authorities will be freer to govern their areas as they see fit, based on the democratically-stated will of their electorates. The increased council tax/business rate income from high-value properties will be available to them for this purpose.

Education

Primary and Secondary

  • We will abolish Ofsted and give headmasters and teachers the power to decide how best to teach the National Curriculum for themselves. Schools will be judged on the results of their pupils, not some spurious one-off subjective assessment.
  • We will bring back grammar schools. We will also see to it that non-grammar schools give their pupils the best possible education rather than leaving them underfunded and unappreciated as they were before. Non-grammar school children who show signs of academic talent after the 11+ should be given the option of transferring to a grammar.

Post-18

  • Apprenticeships and vocational training will be encouraged in order to provide opportunities for less academically gifted students, rather than trying to push them all through a university system that is unsuited to them.
  • It is our view that the tuition fee system is not only fair but actually increases the ability of suitably talented poor children to access a university education. As such it will remain.
  • Universities should be free to educate their students as they see fit rather than having to do it according to governmental mandate, so we will abolish the TEF.

Research

  • We will continue to fund academic research through the various funding councils.
  • We will abolish the REF assessment as we believe all research is valuable.

Health

NHS

  • The NHS will remain free to use for all UK citizens and legal immigrants.
  • We will reduce bureaucracy in the NHS by eliminating most of the national management structure and giving hospital managers direct responsibility for how their budgets are spent. Medical professionals and those “on the ground” are in the best position to know what their area needs, and so they should be the ones deciding what it gets.
  • We will increase funding for community care services in order to free up hospital beds for those who really need them.
  • Prescription charges will be abolished for anyone earning less than £11,001.

Social Care

  • We will increase funding for social services so that people can be looked after in their own homes rather than in hospitals wherever possible.

Transport

Road

  • The motorway speed limit will be increased to 80mph for cars and motorbikes.
  • Hogging the middle or rightmost lane of any road or motorway will be penalised by a fine and six points on the driver’s license. The police will be instructed to clamp down on this antisocial behaviour.
  • Local authorities, especially in rural areas, will be encouraged to subsidise bus travel in their regions to open up environmentally-friendly transport options to as much of the country as possible.

Rail

  • Rail travel is proven to be far more efficient and environmentally friendly than road. As such we will work to move both passengers and freight onto railways through the reopening of closed lines (in conjunction with local authorities) and stations, capacity improvements on existing lines, and investment in new rolling stock.
  • In order to reduce emissions from diesel engines, we will seek to electrify most main lines in the country.
  • We will expand the High Speed rail network in the UK to the West Midlands, North West, North East and Scotland. This will reduce journey times around the country, and by reducing congestion on the existing network will free up paths for extra local and freight services.

Air

  • We will seek to reduce internal air travel in favour of rail wherever possible.
  • There will be no extra runway at Heathrow. If additional international flights are necessary they can use regional airports, which will be connected into the high-speed rail network to facilitate onward travel.

Sea/River/Canal

  • The UK has an excellent and underused waterway transportation system. We will introduce subsidies for freight transport on this network, in order to move low-priority and/or non-time-dependant freight away from the roads.

Defence

  • An island nation requires a strong Navy, but successive governments have overseen a terrible decline in the Royal Navy’s capabilities. We will cease any planned cutbacks to the naval budget, including cancellation of the decommissioning of HMS Ocean, and will invest in the fleet in order to bring it back to the appropriate scale and power.
  • The Trident replacement will proceed as planned.
  • The two new aircraft carriers will be completed, commissioned and fully equipped with state-of-the-art airplanes.
  • As aircraft carriers alone are vulnerable to air strikes, we will build eight new destroyers with the latest anti-aircraft and anti-missile defence technology to add to their strike groups.
  • To patrol and protect our territorial waters (including those of Gibraltar, The Falklands and other British Overseas Territories), three new offshore patrol and five new fast patrol ships will be constructed.
  • All new naval construction is to be carried out at UK dockyards. This will provide jobs and economic growth to their local areas, many of which are currently disadvantaged.
  • The Army and Air Force will be retained at their current levels for the time being, as any extra defence funding will be focused on getting our Navy back up to the required level.
  • The UK armed forces will continue to defend our nation and its interests against those who would threaten them, both at home and abroad, and to demonstrate our power around the world. However, we are not the World Police and as such will not interfere in the affairs of other nations excepting where those affairs are a direct threat to the UK or its interests.

Crime

  • We believe in the principle of innocent until proven guilty. As such, DBS checks will only show convictions rather than accusations or charges.
  • To aid this principle, the media (including social media) will be banned from publishing any identifying information about suspects accused of crimes. Charged suspects may be named, but if subsequently found not guilty that result must be published with equal prominence to the initial article(s) about the charge.
  • Cannabis will be legalised, regulated and taxed. This will raise extra revenue for our other proposals. We will commission independent reviews into whether any other drugs should be legalised in the same way.
  • We will enable police officers to spend more time on the streets rather than behind desks by eliminating unnecessary paperwork.

Immigration

  • Educated, talented and motivated immigrants are welcome if they have accepted a job offer. However, employers will have to demonstrate that no suitably qualified UK residents are able or available to fill the post before a work permit and entry visa will be granted. Immigrant workers who are sacked or made redundant will have a year in which to find other work, after which they will have to return to their country of origin.
  • There will be no restriction on immigrants coming to the UK for the purpose of studying in higher education, be it undergraduate or postgraduate. On graduation they will have a year to either find a job in the UK or be accepted onto another university course at a higher level of study, after which they will have to return to their country of origin.
  • All legal immigrants who are working or studying (and their immediate families where applicable) will have full access to UK services and benefits, their entitlement to which will be recorded on their entry visa(s). Legal immigrants without such entitlement on their entry visa (e.g. tourists) will not be eligible for any services or benefits except emergency healthcare.
  • Legitimate asylum seekers must make themselves known to the authorities at the earliest possible time during or after their entry to the country, at which point they will be housed in dedicated facilities until their case can be heard. Those whose case is judged worthy will have full access to UK services and benefits (including employment) until such time as it is deemed safe for them to return to their country of origin. Those whose case is not judged worthy will be deported. Any undocumented immigrants and/or asylum seekers who do not make themselves known to the authorities at the earliest possible time will be considered to not be legitimate and will be deported.

Quality of Life

Museums/Galleries

  • All public museums and galleries will remain free to enter.
  • Local authorities will be free to subsidise free entry for their local museums and galleries as they see fit.

Media

  • The TV license fee will be abolished as an anachronism in the digital internet age.

Human Rights/Equalities

  • We are committed to equality for all, and will legislate accordingly. However, this means equality. Discrimination on the basis of a protected characteristic will be prohibited, whether it is positive or negative.
  • All job applications will be face- and name-blind, to avoid any prejudice in the selection process.

Countryside/Parks

  • Greenbelt land around major cities will continue to be protected from development.

Environment

  • We will encourage the use of energy sources that minimise global warming and climate change. As such, nuclear power will be the preferred source for the national grid and we will begin construction of new nuclear power stations to reduce our reliance on fossil fuels.
  • We will trial wind, solar and hydroelectric power stations in order to test their ability to provide a significant amount of the country’s growing energy needs. If the trials are successful we will identify sites for further power stations of these kinds.

Thank you for reading, and I look forward to receiving your vote [Smile]

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29891 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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A curious mixture of the libertarian and the fascistic.

So, no thanks. I'll pass.

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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20% tax on an income of £11k seems pretty harsh. Currently someone earning that small sum pays £0.

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arse

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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

Council Tax/Business Rates

  • Council Tax and Business Rate bands are confusing and outdated. They will instead be replaced by an annual tax of 0.75% of the last purchase price paid for any property, to be paid by the property owner. This will reduce the tax burden on those living in low-value properties while increasing it for those living in high-value ones, and will also work to stop rampant house price inflation.
  • The tax will apply to any land or property, whether it is occupied or not. This will encourage the owners of vacant properties to either use, sell or rent them to people who need a place to live and/or do business.

Inheritance Tax

  • Abolished


I think the Council Tax thing needs some additional fudge for when rises have inevitably happened (as it is it favours keeping hold of a property, rather than freeing it up if it is not needed, say to downsize, and in time will favour established buy to letters over new owners. You might even get a system of virtual mutual rents, rather than admit a new price), but one that keeps the downward pressure (perhaps last price times some inflation factor, though that then gets back to the current system?)

On the inheritance tax, a friend posted a picture on how "'Liberal lefties' wanted an equal finish, while 'Conservatives' wanted an equal start. The position on inheritance tax proves that to be self evidently untrue.
It is also true that you want people to work to their legacy (and a large part of that is their children), and I'm not sure how to balance that fairly.

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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Isn't it more just to abolish inheritance rather than inheritance tax? We wouldn't have heard of Donald J Trump for a start.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
20% tax on an income of £11k seems pretty harsh. Currently someone earning that small sum pays £0.

I assumed that was like the current system, I've forgotten the name. But where the tax rate applies only on the extra money.

Also it would depend on other factors (20% tax if you already had a house and food guaranteed so you were only paying for a better house, would be quite fair. 20% tax if you were paying effectively fixed council tax in addition, etc not so good)

[ 21. April 2017, 18:03: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]

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MrsBeaky
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# 17663

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Mmmm...
Just a quick question
Why "headmasters" rather than "headteachers"?

--------------------
"It is better to be kind than right."

http://davidandlizacooke.wordpress.com

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
20% tax on an income of £11k seems pretty harsh. Currently someone earning that small sum pays £0.

It's only £500 lower than currently.

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29891 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
A curious mixture of the libertarian and the fascistic.

Phew. I was worried people would accuse me of going all soft and lefty, what with all the tax rises for rich people and corporations...

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29891 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
hatless

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# 3365

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60 : 1 pay ratio? That should be 6 : 1 surely.

--------------------
My crazy theology in novel form

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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No, no one would accuse you of that, with your zero inheritance tax, tax on labour rather than wealth, and massive spending on the military.

(x-posted with hatless)

[ 21. April 2017, 19:32: Message edited by: Doc Tor ]

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

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Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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You've had a fair amount of time on your hands today, Marvin, haven't you? Glad you used it constructively. [Smile]

--------------------
"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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hatless

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# 3365

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There should be heavy fines for people who fail to display clear house numbers on or near their front doors.

Blind people should not need to pay for street lighting.

As a rainy country, we should invest in research to eliminate the irritating squeaking produced by wet, rubber-soled shoes on the rubber of car pedals.

People should be free to move around the UK, but must accept training to help them pick up the local accent.

I'm with you on bringing back Secondary Moderns, and they should be well-funded. 55% of Grammar School funding, would you say? Teachers to be on 55% of Grammar School pay?

--------------------
My crazy theology in novel form

Posts: 4497 | From: Stinkers | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
I assumed that was like the current system, I've forgotten the name. But where the tax rate applies only on the extra money.

Correct.

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29891 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by MrsBeaky:
Mmmm...
Just a quick question
Why "headmasters" rather than "headteachers"?

Because I had a lot to write down and forgot to use inclusive language everywhere.

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

Posts: 29891 | From: Adrift on a sea of surreality | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
60 : 1 pay ratio? That should be 6 : 1 surely.

It would mean that a CEO who refused to pay more than £15,000 (FTE) to their lowest-paid workers wouldn't be able to pocket more than £900,000 themselves. And that would include stuff like their company car, stock options, bonus, etc.

Trust me, there are lots of CEOs who earn more than that right now.

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

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PaulTH*
Shipmate
# 320

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I could go with most of that. I wouldn't favour Corporation Tax as high as 22.5% though. Look how much benefit the Irish economy has derived from low rates.

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Yours in Christ
Paul

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
I assumed that was like the current system, I've forgotten the name. But where the tax rate applies only on the extra money.

Oh yeah, durr sorry.

--------------------
arse

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Adeodatus
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# 4992

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I would lower VAT, even if it meant increasing income tax. VAT is a regressive tax, falling disproportionately on the poor. Once outside the restrictions imposed by the EU, I would restructure VAT so that it's charged on real luxuries, not on everyday necessities as at present.

I would also aspire towards abolishing university tuition fees. I'm quite sure that I could not go to university these days, with the financial burden involved; I don't believe I should ask today's students to make sacrifices that I never had to.

On health, I think the most important single measure is to combine the health and social care budgets. The phenomenon of "bed blocking" occurs largely because social care doesn't want to pick up the tab when someone leaves the care of the NHS. Combining the budgets solves this element of the current problem at a stroke. (By the way, Labour would have done this if they'd been reelected in 2015. I believe it was Andy Burnham's idea.) I would strengthen and restructure NICE to be key in moving NHS care more towards an evidence-based system - what we have now is pretty good, but pretty good isn't good enough when there's never enough money. I'd bring the public health budget back within the NHS. An integrated system is more logical and efficient than a fragmented one. Finally I'd move as far as possible towards renationalising the NHS - every penny profit made by private providers is a penny stolen from patient care, and the current situation in which a private provider is suing the NHS for £82M because they didn't get a contract is obscene.

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"What is broken, repair with gold."

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Arethosemyfeet
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# 17047

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
60 : 1 pay ratio? That should be 6 : 1 surely.

It would mean that a CEO who refused to pay more than £15,000 (FTE) to their lowest-paid workers wouldn't be able to pocket more than £900,000 themselves. And that would include stuff like their company car, stock options, bonus, etc.

Trust me, there are lots of CEOs who earn more than that right now.

Yeah, but it also means that companies that pay their highest earners £180 000 can pay full time employees £3000 a year, or about a quarter of the current minimum wage. This measure would need to be as well, not instead, of the current minimum wage.
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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
I could go with most of that. I wouldn't favour Corporation Tax as high as 22.5% though. Look how much benefit the Irish economy has derived from low rates.

Very little. That's interesting.

Irish government revenues have shown a more-or-less steady rise from the 1970s, with a shock in 2008. Certainly no sudden influx of cash into the coffers from 2003 onwards.

Essentially, the Irish people have derived zero benefit from being used to offshore other people's money. Who would have thought it?

--------------------
Forward the New Republic

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
I could go with most of that. I wouldn't favour Corporation Tax as high as 22.5% though. Look how much benefit the Irish economy has derived from low rates.

Its 21% now, and I had to increase taxes somewhere to pay for all the new infrastructure and defence spending!

--------------------
Hail Gallaxhar

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
Yeah, but it also means that companies that pay their highest earners £180 000 can pay full time employees £3000 a year, or about a quarter of the current minimum wage. This measure would need to be as well, not instead, of the current minimum wage.

Hm, not a bad point. I'll have a think about it.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Jay-Emm
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
I could go with most of that. I wouldn't favour Corporation Tax as high as 22.5% though. Look how much benefit the Irish economy has derived from low rates.

Its 21% now, and I had to increase taxes somewhere to pay for all the new infrastructure and defence spending!
It's a manifesto, you don't need to worry about that!


The 60* I think needs another factor (as else there's nothing controlling the tiny businesses).
Perhaps something like root(minimum*medium*log2(employee count))?
With either an additional 'tax' and 'share' based income for people who genuinely grew their own company and ability to 'reserve' income for short careers or something.
That would also be a start against the inevitable Company Management PLC and Company Part A employees PLC.

[X post/not reading + not crediting Adeotosus for the initial thought]

[ 21. April 2017, 21:41: Message edited by: Jay-Emm ]

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stonespring
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
I could go with most of that. I wouldn't favour Corporation Tax as high as 22.5% though. Look how much benefit the Irish economy has derived from low rates.

Very little. That's interesting.

Irish government revenues have shown a more-or-less steady rise from the 1970s, with a shock in 2008. Certainly no sudden influx of cash into the coffers from 2003 onwards.

Essentially, the Irish people have derived zero benefit from being used to offshore other people's money. Who would have thought it?

You are talking about government revenues - do you have evidence that the Republic of Ireland has not benefited from low corporate tax rates in terms of employment (or employment in certain sectors like technology and pharmaceuticals, and the buildup of a skilled workforce in such sectors), or more broadly, in terms of GDP?
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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
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quote:
Originally posted by Jay-Emm:
The 60* I think needs another factor (as else there's nothing controlling the tiny businesses).

Yes, probably easiest to just retain a minimum wage though.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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quote:
Originally posted by stonespring:
quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
I could go with most of that. I wouldn't favour Corporation Tax as high as 22.5% though. Look how much benefit the Irish economy has derived from low rates.

Very little. That's interesting.

Irish government revenues have shown a more-or-less steady rise from the 1970s, with a shock in 2008. Certainly no sudden influx of cash into the coffers from 2003 onwards.

Essentially, the Irish people have derived zero benefit from being used to offshore other people's money. Who would have thought it?

You are talking about government revenues - do you have evidence that the Republic of Ireland has not benefited from low corporate tax rates in terms of employment (or employment in certain sectors like technology and pharmaceuticals, and the buildup of a skilled workforce in such sectors), or more broadly, in terms of GDP?
Yes.

Employment
GDP (although I don't know why folk get such a hard-on for GDP. It doesn't mean much unless it gets tapped for the population)

Seriously. Look at the menu on the right of the screen on those links. Ireland was doing well - sustainably well - with a higher rate of Corporation Tax. All that money flooding into Ireland is just sitting there, doing nothing, and will continue to do so without affecting the lives of virtually everyone in Ireland. The only people it does benefit are those whose money it is.

Newsflash. It's not yours.

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Forward the New Republic

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hatless

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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by hatless:
60 : 1 pay ratio? That should be 6 : 1 surely.

It would mean that a CEO who refused to pay more than £15,000 (FTE) to their lowest-paid workers wouldn't be able to pocket more than £900,000 themselves. And that would include stuff like their company car, stock options, bonus, etc.

Trust me, there are lots of CEOs who earn more than that right now.

Yes, I know there are. But a ratio of six to one is more than enough. Money brings power and status, and it is unhealthy to have such concentrations of these.

We are rewarded by much more than pay, and rewarded far better. High pay seems to be mainly a macho game played by companies hooked on the 'strong' leadership model. I don't believe it's good.

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My crazy theology in novel form

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
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I'm with hatless on 6:1. But then I'm an Antipodean alien and not eligible to vote for the Martians.

quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Welfare

  • Those who are legitimately unable to work should not starve or be homeless. We will mandate a standard unemployment benefit of £75 per week for anyone with total savings (including current accounts) of less than £10,000, on the condition that all recipients can demonstrate that they are actively seeking work. If the claimant is homeless then we will also provide them with adequate accommodation.

£75 seems rather low. What is the current benefit?

Or is this assuming, as per the point you made below for those not looking for work, they get food, drink, clothing [what abbout utilities?], etc. paid and this is an "extra"?

[ 21. April 2017, 23:23: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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Marvin wants to bring back the workhouse, and divide people into the deserving and undeserving poor. That's all.

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Forward the New Republic

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simontoad
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I thought this was going to be funny. [Waterworks]

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Human

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I thought this was going to be funny. [Waterworks]

If it was intended to be funny, Marvin would have posted it in The Circus.
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Philip Charles

Ship's cutler
# 618

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When are you introducing a bill to improve Manchester's weather?

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There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

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dyfrig
Blue Scarfed Menace
# 15

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Can you clarify where you're talking about? There are references to "this island nation", but I don't know where that is.

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"He was wrong in the long run, but then, who isn't?" - Tony Judt

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Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
£75 seems rather low. What is the current benefit?

£57.90 for under 25s, £73.10 for over 25s.

Which means my offering is actually more generous than real life. Whatever Doc may say [Razz]

[ 22. April 2017, 08:11: Message edited by: Marvin the Martian ]

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Marvin the Martian

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quote:
Originally posted by dyfrig:
Can you clarify where you're talking about? There are references to "this island nation", but I don't know where that is.

The UK.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Marvin the Martian

Interplanetary
# 4360

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I thought this was going to be funny. [Waterworks]

If it was intended to be funny, Marvin would have posted it in The Circus.
Or Heaven. But either way, not Purg.

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Hail Gallaxhar

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
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quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
£75 seems rather low. What is the current benefit?

£57.90 for under 25s, £73.10 for over 25s.

Which means my offering is actually more generous than real life. Whatever Doc may say [Razz]

Thanks. You are indeed a generous overlord. [Smile]

This clearly excludes housing costs [I hope!]? Are people provided with a place to live? And is this a payment in addition to other "payments", e.g. grocery card, free/discounted public transport..., or is meant to cover all expenses?

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Ricardus
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Some thoughts ...
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:

The full amount of parental leave will be available to either parent (but not both) rather than only the mother. This recognises that in some families the mother may wish to return to work as soon as possible after birth while the father takes care of the child. In cases where the father claims the full parental leave allowance the mother will be eligible for the two-week leave allowance currently known as paternity leave. This will also apply to couples adopting children.


Doesn't that already exist in the form of Shared Parental Leave?
quote:
Companies headquartered in countries other than the UK will be charged this rate on all profits generated in the UK before any payments to overseas-based subsidiaries of the same company are subtracted. This will help to prevent accounting tricks to avoid tax by using tax havens, as well as encouraging companies to favour supply chain relationships within the UK.
Not sure. If Ricardus Motoren Werke (UK) is sourcing its carburettors from Ricardus Motoren Werke AG (Germany), then provided those carburettors are genuinely made in Germany it's not obvious to me that it should be penalised for doing so with a tax penalty. If the penalty is to encourage them to buy British carburettors then that seems to me a form of protectionism, which isn't really compatible with the commitment to free trade in the first parts of the manifesto.

quote:
Those who are legitimately unable to work should not starve or be homeless. We will mandate a standard unemployment benefit of £75 per week for anyone with total savings (including current accounts) of less than £10,000, on the condition that all recipients can demonstrate that they are actively seeking work. If the claimant is homeless then we will also provide them with adequate accommodation.
[...]Anyone with total savings (including current accounts) of less than £10,000 who is unemployed, not actively seeking work, and not assessed as unable to do so will be provided with adequate accommodation, clothing, food and drink as required, but will not receive any cash benefit.

This seems like a way of generating a universal basic income, but minus one of the key advantages, namely simplicity?
quote:
We will enable police officers to spend more time on the streets rather than behind desks by eliminating unnecessary paperwork.
In contrast to the myriad policy wonks who think: 'I know! What the police really need is more paperwork ...'
quote:
Legitimate asylum seekers must make themselves known to the authorities at the earliest possible time during or after their entry to the country, at which point they will be housed in dedicated facilities until their case can be heard.
What is meant by dedicated facilities?
quote:
The TV license fee will be abolished as an anachronism in the digital internet age.

Yep, although I will settle for 'the BBC will not send threatening letters to people who don't have a telly, and will stop making up shit about TV detector vans'.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Karl: Liberal Backslider
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# 76

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How will the BBC be funded after abolition of the licence fee? If it's from advertising, forget it. The commercial channels are annoying enough as it is without being advertised at by the BBC as well.

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Might as well ask the bloody cat.

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Curiosity killed ...

Ship's Mug
# 11770

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Currently if people are on benefits, they can get some of their rent and council tax paid through housing and council tax benefits, depending on their accommodation. The infamous bedroom tax means that people are often contributing to rent costs, if for example a single person is in accommodation with two bedrooms.

In addition people on benefits get free prescriptions and health checks (dentist and optician). Transport is local - Transport for London can set an Oyster Card to charge half price travel while someone is out of work and for the first month (? - it may be three months) when someone returns to work after a spell of unemployment.

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Mugs - Keep the Ship afloat

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Ricardus
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# 8757

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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
I could go with most of that. I wouldn't favour Corporation Tax as high as 22.5% though. Look how much benefit the Irish economy has derived from low rates.

Very little. That's interesting.

Irish government revenues have shown a more-or-less steady rise from the 1970s, with a shock in 2008. Certainly no sudden influx of cash into the coffers from 2003 onwards.

Essentially, the Irish people have derived zero benefit from being used to offshore other people's money. Who would have thought it?

On the face of it, there doesn't seem to be much correlation at all between government revenue and the rate of corporation tax - which does suggest that raising corporation tax wouldn't necessarily get you more money.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Russ
Old salt
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quote:
Originally posted by PaulTH*:
I could go with most of that. I wouldn't favour Corporation Tax as high as 22.5% though. Look how much benefit the Irish economy has derived from low rates.

The story you link to reflects the distortion of economic growth statistics by changes to accounting practices in multinational firms, and doesn't say anything much about benefit to the real economy.

Seems pretty obvious that
- Ireland benefits from having Google, Apple & other multinational firms here
- part of what attracted them here and keeps them here is a low corporate tax rate.

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Wish everyone well; the enemy is not people, the enemy is wrong ideas

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Ricardus
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Personally my favoured solution would be to reduce corporation tax to a nominal amount (say 1%), and then raise taxes on investments to compensate, on the grounds that a corporation is ultimately just a front for a group of investors, and it is harder to hide personal income than corporate income.

Someone is going to come along now and show how that's totally unworkable ...

[ 22. April 2017, 10:28: Message edited by: Ricardus ]

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
What is meant by dedicated facilities?

I'd like to think he didn't mean some sort of camp somewhere remote, surrounded by barbed wire, because that's the obvious cheap shot I'd make.

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Forward the New Republic

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fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

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Is it not a little strange to suggest that the Brexit vote be taken as 'the people have spoken' and as something that must be enacted but in the same breath say an independence vote most be at least 60% in order to pass the mustard?

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'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

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Jay-Emm
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by Ricardus:
What is meant by dedicated facilities?

I'd like to think he didn't mean some sort of camp somewhere remote, surrounded by barbed wire, because that's the obvious cheap shot I'd make.
I wouldn't mind that if there was a chance it would be well run and provide a safe space, unfortunately experience shows Teresa (and her New-Labour and Tory predecessors) have
other ideas

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leo
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# 1458

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
£75 seems rather low. What is the current benefit?

£65.45

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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Instead of fining people for 'hogging' lanes, why not allow undertaking as well as overtaking - problem solved.

Your manifesto is a mixed bag, just like all the other parties. Little to choose between them, except at the extremes.

I'm glad to see Labour moving to the left. Now they just need a credible leadership.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Leorning Cniht
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Instead of fining people for 'hogging' lanes, why not allow undertaking as well as overtaking - problem solved.

Not really. Having slow-moving traffic keep to the inside, and faster-moving traffic move outside to pass is predictable, and therefore safer.

Having the "slow lane" change randomly depending on which lane Grandpa found most convenient is less predictable, and so less safe. You'll get more collisions where a slower car doesn't see a faster car coming up on the inside.

(The BBC is a public good - just fund it from general taxation. There's no need for a separate user fee and a bureaucracy to collect it.)

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