Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gamaliel:
Well yes ...

I was being a bit curmugeonly ... not to say pedantic ...

But can we 'see' the work of the Holy Spirit?

The wind bloweth where it listeth.

Young people bopping along to up-tempo worship songs doth not a work of the Holy Spirit make ... in and of itself ...

I'd be more convinced if it was a work of the Holy Spirit if it was THEM not the old people who put their musical preferences to one side ...

Now, that would be a miracle and worthy of note ...



I get what you're getting at and I'm being deliberately awkward.

---

I would say any time we set aside ourselves to demonstrate the sacrificial love of Christ we can chalk it up to the miraculous work of the Spirit, whether the sacrificer is young or old. But really, does it then surprise us that it would be the older-- presumably wiser, more accustomed to the work of the Spirit-- Christians who demonstrated this transformative power (this time, anyway)? Rather, we should be asking ourselves why it isn't that way more often.

In this case, the part I left out (naughty!) was that these older Christians happened to be largely retired missionaries. So the notion of cross-cultural ministry was familiar to them, as was the notion of sacrificing your comfort to accommodate others.

They are mostly gone now, but not forgotten-- at least by me.


--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
{Hands Gamaliel a bottle of Geritol, a cozy knit blanket, and a membership in AARP. Puts a "Darn kids, get off my lawn!!!" sign in front of his home.}

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gamaliel:

Meanwhile, I have no idea what the acronym stands for nor the particular beverage that's been mentioned but I'll take the blanket ...

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
{Hands Gamaliel a bottle of Geritol, a cozy knit blanket, and a membership in AARP. Puts a "Darn kids, get off my lawn!!!" sign in front of his home.}

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by bib:
I posted this OP because I was concerned about the high handed and non consultative actions that had occurred. This is much more significant than what type of music was played. It augurs badly for the happiness of a congregation when the boss is an autocrat who cares nothing for his/her flock. I once attended a church where the new minister told me that he wasn't going to bother with the elderly in his congregation as in his opinion it was only the young who mattered. Needless to say, the older congregation, who tended to be the financial supporters, soon left.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gamaliel:
The ideal, of course, is to have the choir (or the worship band if you insist ...) facilitating the sung-worship of the congregation rather than delivering a performance of some kind ...

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Enoch:

More seriously, I repeat what I questioned earlier, about the pastoral legitimacy of abandoning the part of your flock who are nearest to the life event when they are going to need faith most.

Also, now that I am old, I do value what I learnt from people who at the time I'd have regarded as stuffy, stuck in the past and no longer getting it, and who are no longer around to ask or to thank.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by bib:
Needless to say, the older congregation, who tended to be the financial supporters, soon left.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gamaliel:
@Cliffdweller, 'geezer' is a specifically London / Cockney term for 'bloke' (guy) and isn't necessarily age-specific - although it's not the sort of term the hip-hop generation would use ... Although they'd understand it.

---

Posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Gamaliel:
I hadn't realised the term 'geezer' existed across the Pond. You learn something new every day.

Is it a recent import or a long-standing US term? Words cross and recross the Atlantic in both directions of course.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
I've heard it all my life (in the U.S.), and I've lived long enough to be a geezer myself -- though I also believe it usually refers to old men more than women.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
... I used The Geezer for my Ship name for a while. Some of my older MW reports bear that name.

I'd never refer to a woman as a geezer, though -- only a man. There was an ancient old woman in that same Italian-American parish whom everyone used to call "The Crone." I don't know what her real name was.

I might also call an old woman a hen, biddy, or old maid. Except Pigwidgeon, though, who is forever young.

---

Posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:

I might also call an old woman a hen, biddy, or old maid. Except Pigwidgeon, though, who is forever young.

---

Thank you!


--------------------
"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf

Posted                      

quote:

---

Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Geezer is very common here in the USA.

There was an ancient old gentleman in the Italian-American RC parish of my childhood whom everyone always referred to as "The Geezer." His real name was the wonderful Rocco Pelusi.

I used The Geezer for my Ship name for a while. Some of my older MW reports bear that name.

I'd never refer to a woman as a geezer, though -- only a man. There was an ancient old woman in that same Italian-American parish whom everyone used to call "The Crone." I don't know what her real name was.

I might also call an old woman a hen, biddy, or old maid. Except Pigwidgeon, though, who is forever young.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by M.:
Wasn't there a song in the 70s about someone being a real tasty geezer?

It became a universal term for a handsome young gent.

At least it did at my school!

M.

---

A RIGHT tasty geezer, if you don't mind. This old geezer remembers it well. Johnie Reggae by The Piglets may not have been the only version?

If I am not allowed to link, would a kind host please remove? youtube

--------------------
Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.

Posted                         

quote:

---

Originally posted by Golden Key:
{Hands Gamaliel a bottle of Geritol, a cozy knit blanket, and a membership in AARP. Puts a "Darn kids, get off my lawn!!!" sign in front of his home.}

---

Thanks to cliffdweller and others who jumped in to explain this. I sort of tossed a mental coin about providing links, and it came down on the "they can look up Geritol and AARP" side. Apologies for any confusion and inconvenience.

I didn't intend any insult, BTW. Gamaliel made a comment, followed by smilies, that was very much in the "Darn kids, get off my lawn!!!" vein, and I playfully tossed that back to him.

I don't think I would've called him a "geezer", in the American sense, just because I usually don't use that word. More likely,
"old coot" (Free Dictionary, last definition) or "the (stereotypical) grumpy old man who lives on the corner".

IME, "old coot" often includes a sneaking admiration, for someone who dares to do/say whatever it was, and possibly gets away with it.

Possibly the old-cootest of all old coots was fold-singer/activist Pete Seeger. At his 90th birthday celebration (televised), Bruce Springsteen said "Pete's going to be out here in a minute; and he's going to look a bit like your grandpa, if your grandpa could kick your *ass*".


--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pomona:
Gamaliel - a reminder that the hip-hop generation are Gen Xers and mostly in their 40s now Obviously subsequent generations have carried it on, but as a genre it straddles disco and house music in terms of how it started, parallel to new wave. I recommend The Get Down on Netflix!

Choirs don't work everywhere. My church is MOTR with a fairly new open evangelical rector who is slowly bringing in changes - we have a robed choir for our Holy Communion services when I feel like it actually detracts from the worship and is just there because that's what they've always had, and I sincerely hope our rector can persuade the church to ditch the choir ASAP. Nothing to do with wanting it to be guitars and worship songs, just to do with the choir being genuinely bad and not necessary.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by ThunderBunk:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pomona:
Gamaliel - a reminder that the hip-hop generation are Gen Xers and mostly in their 40s now Obviously subsequent generations have carried it on, but as a genre it straddles disco and house music in terms of how it started, parallel to new wave. I recommend The Get Down on Netflix!

Choirs don't work everywhere. My church is MOTR with a fairly new open evangelical rector who is slowly bringing in changes - we have a robed choir for our Holy Communion services when I feel like it actually detracts from the worship and is just there because that's what they've always had, and I sincerely hope our rector can persuade the church to ditch the choir ASAP. Nothing to do with wanting it to be guitars and worship songs, just to do with the choir being genuinely bad and not necessary.

---

Pomona you need a new director of music, not no choir. ETA: This is because it takes many years, at least a generation in fact, to build a musical tradition in a church, and only one dry spell and/or uppity clergyperson to destroy it.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

I sincerely hope our rector can persuade the church to ditch the choir ASAP. Nothing to do with wanting it to be guitars and worship songs, just to do with the choir being genuinely bad and not necessary.

---

Posted                       

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Pomona:

quote:

---

I sincerely hope our rector can persuade the church to ditch the choir ASAP. Nothing to do with wanting it to be guitars and worship songs, just to do with the choir being genuinely bad and not necessary.

---

Sounds like a plan. Just tell the choir they suck and "detract from worship", sack them, and tell them to suck it up and don't whine about it like selfish, little gits. Problem solved.

---

Posted                      

quote:

---

We don't have a director of music anyway - IME only Anglo-Catholic churches in England ever do, it's not something I've ever come across outside of that tradition. A worship committee or self-selecting music group is far more common.

---

Posted                          

quote:

---

Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
I have seen at close range a rector/choir war which, in the short term, the rector won. In the longterm, he split the parish during a five-year internal war, and then took it out of the Anglican communion. Since then, I have been inclined to look at such efforts as a cleric-with-an-ego/political-agenda phenomenon

---