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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » Can we go back to a fish? (Page 2)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: Can we go back to a fish?
mr cheesy
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# 3330

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Wow, that American Clergy Leadership Conference (ACLC) is a whole load of weird.

Sidenote: the Unification Church has a lot of political clout. And some serious goods on a range of religious figures if it can get them to sign up to doing that loony stuff. I think that's a pretty good reason to keep the cross - if only to avoid anyone thinking that we're anything to do with the Moonies.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Stetson
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# 9597

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
[QB] Wow, that American Clergy Leadership Conference (ACLC) is a whole load of weird.

Sidenote: the Unification Church has a lot of political clout. And some serious goods on a range of religious figures if it can get them to sign up to doing that loony stuff.

My guess would be that the truth is somewhat more prosaic.

The Moonies were probably targeting smaller churches in poorer areas, who needed the money. Plus, things like the "Imani Temple African American Catholic Congregation" probably don't have strong ties to any larger denomination, so the clergy there are freer to do whatever they want about the crosses, without provoking much complaint from higher-ups.

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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!

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leo
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# 1458

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According to this expert, the cross goes right back to baptisms in the communities of St. Paul.

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My Jewish-positive lectionary blog is at http://recognisingjewishrootsinthelectionary.wordpress.com/
My reviews at http://layreadersbookreviews.wordpress.com

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
...
It was Augustine who liked to use the letters of IXTHYS to spell out:

Iota (i) is the first letter of Iēsous (Ἰησοῦς), Greek for "Jesus".
Chi (ch) is the first letter of Christos (Χριστός), Greek for "anointed."
Theta (th) is the first letter of Theou (Θεοῦ), Greek for "God's", the genitive case of Θεóς, Theos," Greek for "God."
Upsilon (y) is the first letter of (h)yios[7] (Υἱός), Greek for "Son".
Sigma (s) is the first letter of sōtēr (Σωτήρ), Greek for "Savior."

There are other symbols that were also used, that have fallen into disfavor such as an eight-spoked wheel or an anchor?

Which always amuses me as 95% of Christians with a fish on the car (etc) have it back to front ...

SYHTXI

except without the letters, but nevertheless with the tail to the right ... which may mean they're expert in Grebrew, may mean they're dumb, or may mean there is a deep demonic plot on-going, by which gullible Christians are being demonically deceived to the point that they believe evil is good and good is evil, and vote for ...


Oh wait, that's a different thread.

Nevertheless, for many reasons cited by others above, I fear we remove the cross, empty or enfleshed, from our symbolism and our narratives at deep peril. When we do that, and forget this powerful symbol of the meeting place of heaven and earth, resurrection and crucifixion, holiness and sin, we might just aid and abet even more readily a demonic deception and believe evil is good and good is evil.

[ 11. May 2017, 19:08: Message edited by: Zappa ]

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Lyda*Rose

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# 4544

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Why does it matter where the tail is in relationship to the word? [Confused]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Why does it matter where the tail is in relationship to the word? [Confused]

Wouldn't tail-backward be like an inverted cross?
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Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Why does it matter where the tail is in relationship to the word? [Confused]

Wouldn't tail-backward be like an inverted cross?
But why is it backward for the tail to be on the right?

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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Augustine the Aleut
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# 1472

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Aficionadi of such things will of course note that Hungarians seem to be specialists of religious edibles including a resurrection cake. I also found a marzipan reliquary featuring an edible skeletal hand but was challenged by pinterest in finding a usuable URL.

[ 12. May 2017, 20:35: Message edited by: Augustine the Aleut ]

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Why does it matter where the tail is in relationship to the word? [Confused]

Wouldn't tail-backward be like an inverted cross?
But why is it backward for the tail to be on the right?
A fish with the tail to the right is swimming towards the left. That's against the flow of modern society, and hence backwards. Though, going against the flow seems much more appropriate to me.

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Citizen of the world.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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I think you need to put it on your car in this position () so it looks like a rocket taking off.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Pigwidgeon

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# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
A fish with the tail to the right is swimming towards the left. That's against the flow of modern society, and hence backwards. Though, going against the flow seems much more appropriate to me.

Perhaps it's a salmon, swimming upstream to spawn.
[Biased]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Or, a carp - which in Japanese culture symbolises strength and courage (for jumping up waterfalls).

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Citizen of the world.

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
quote:
Originally posted by Lyda*Rose:
Why does it matter where the tail is in relationship to the word? [Confused]

Wouldn't tail-backward be like an inverted cross?
But why is it backward for the tail to be on the right?
A fish with the tail to the right is swimming towards the left. That's against the flow of modern society, and hence backwards. Though, going against the flow seems much more appropriate to me.
[Killing me]

but really because the tail is the chi [Roll Eyes]

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
... but really because the tail is the chi [Roll Eyes]

Source please? And if that is the case, where are the other letters—the iota in front of the chi, and the theta, upsilon and sigma after it? Sorry, but that sounds like a really recent retro-interpretation to me, especially given that the oldest Christian images of the fish show the fish (sometimes one, sometime two or more) swimming in every direction, and frequently they're portrayed more like real fish, not like the two arcs where the intersection at the tail resembles a chi or a cross.

Yes, Augustine, possibly relying on an older tradition, described the Greek word for "fish" as an acronym. But I've never heard that any part of the symbol of the fish itself (unlike the ichthus wheel) was supposed to suggest any letter in the word "ichthus."

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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