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Source: (consider it) Thread: Saturday Night Massacre Redux
Eutychus
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# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Jolly Jape:
I don't know Eutychus, there seems to be quite a strong biblical principles of "Laughing to scorn". Paul certainly seems to have indulged in it, in the moments between his "look what I've endured for the gospel (and he had) schtick, but surely the scriptural tour de force is Elijah and the prophets of Baal; where is Baal, perhaps he's had to go to the loo.

How much is just invective and how much is ridicule? And is there really that much difference? I think as a prime strategy it can be overrated, but it seems to me that there is some traction in using it as part of the mix.

There's an enormous difference between constant ad hominem name-calling and judiciously applied ridicule/irony to make a particular point in a particular context.

Don't you think it would rather detract from, say, Paul's teaching on grace if he had referred to the Judaisers, consistently and throughout the epistles, as "dick-cutters"?

quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Actually one doesn't even have to call Trump names, one just needs to repeat back what he says.

Thank you for making my point for me.

[ 12. May 2017, 11:13: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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quetzalcoatl
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I don't see it as either/or. If a satirical journalist calls Mrs May May-bot or Kim Jong May, I find that amusing, however, on its own, inadequate. Generally, such journalists do add some actual information and criticism.

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no path

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Eutychus
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I was just going to point out that Elijah was qualified to mock the prophets of Baal - by having gone out and actually confronted them. And I don't think the irony had that much traction until he'd dragged a few boulders into position to build an altar, prepared a sacrifice, added the wood, and drenched it with water before fire from heaven came down.

Irony may be an entertaining complement to doing stuff, but it's no substitute for going out and actually doing things.

And one-note epithets used permanently devalue really fast.

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Gee D
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Let's move past my point about the error in picking on a physical point beyond the power of Trump to alter. There are some features - that cheap haircut, his skin colour (if from a bottle) and so forth that are in one sense legitimate matters for comment. The first trouble is that all too often the comments after then do not go into the detail of why the steps Trump's now taking are wrong, how they will damage the US internally and the impact they have on traditionally friendly nations. Then there is the problem that the repetition dulls the impact - someone will see that and the reader will then say that it's another anti-Trump article and switch off.

Our last Prime MInister rejoiced in the surname Abbott (not helped by having a parliamentary supporter called Bishop) and he quickly became the Mad Monk. How boring to keep hearing that name as if its use were a complete demolition of the PM's latest lunacy. It wasn't.

Otherwise all that Eutychus has been saying.

[ 12. May 2017, 12:04: Message edited by: Gee D ]

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quetzalcoatl
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It depends a lot on context also. If a journalist called Mrs May, Kim Jong May, I find that funny. If Corbyn did it, it would be inappropriate. I suppose if a bunch of Labour supporters did it in the pub, fair play. No doubt Tories have the equivalent for Corbyn. Always kick a man when he's down, can't remember who said that.

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no path

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
It depends a lot on context also. If a journalist called Mrs May, Kim Jong May, I find that funny.

Once or twice; you'd soon stop finding it funny if it was incessant.

During Sarkozy's time in power, the Economist referred to him almost every single time as France's "mercurial and hyperactive" president. It quickly got wearing (even if it was largely accurate).

They also constantly referred to his home base as the "swanky" Paris suburb of Neuilly. This is useful and a quick way of explaining to a non-local what kind of a place Neuilly is (so much so I have stolen it on occasion), but it quickly got wearing too.

And at least the Economist has some actual content to accompany the swipes.

quote:
If Corbyn did it, it would be inappropriate. I suppose if a bunch of Labour supporters did it in the pub, fair play. No doubt Tories have the equivalent for Corbyn.
I agree with this. In this medium I think the equivalent of the pub is Hell, and the bar in question is, as already pointed out, here.

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quetzalcoatl
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Oh, I could hear 'Kim Jong May' a bit more than once or twice. But yes, it has a finite appeal.

A case in point is 'Bliar', which at first seemed amusing and pointed, however it became hackneyed and practically meaningless.

But as I said above, it's not either/or. I don't mind insults, as long as I get some good copy.

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no path

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
I don't mind insults, as long as I get some good copy.

Whereas I don't mind some insults, as long as I get good copy.

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

They also constantly referred to his home base as the "swanky" Paris suburb of Neuilly. This is useful and a quick way of explaining to a non-local what kind of a place Neuilly is (so much so I have stolen it on occasion), but it quickly got wearing too.

Is Neuilly a Parisian Hampstead then?
quote:

quote:
If Corbyn did it, it would be inappropriate. I suppose if a bunch of Labour supporters did it in the pub, fair play. No doubt Tories have the equivalent for Corbyn.
I agree with this. In this medium I think the equivalent of the pub is Hell, and the bar in question is, as already pointed out, here.
I suppose Boris Johnson might be the Conservative equivalent: popular but a liability as a leader.

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Brenda Clough
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This is strikingly wise and substantive: Sen Sasse (R-Nebraska) discusses why the Comey firing is so troubling. A free click. He is on the Judiciary Committee; if he is so solid in committee then I have hope.

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Gramps49
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RE: prime the pump

The term first appeared in literature in the 1880's. Probably used before much longer. Meaning of phrase changed in late 1920's. This is according to Ngram.

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:

They also constantly referred to his home base as the "swanky" Paris suburb of Neuilly. This is useful and a quick way of explaining to a non-local what kind of a place Neuilly is (so much so I have stolen it on occasion), but it quickly got wearing too.

Is Neuilly a Parisian Hampstead then?

[cut out and saved for future use]

Meanwhile, Trump's doing that Watergate trolling again.

I'm increasingly inclined to follow Julie Ebenstien's advice to watch what he does, not what he says.

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Gramps49
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The story has changed again. In an interview with NBC, Trump says he had dinner with Comey at Comey's request. (7 days into the administration). Trump says he asked Comey if he was under investigation. Comey said no.

Comey's aides say it was Trump who requested the dinner. At the dinner, Trump asked Comey for his loyalty. Comey demured. Trump can't stand having people who are not loyal.

There appear to be 10 Republican Senators that could change their support of Trump. If that happens, look for a Senate-led investigation dealing with Trump's mental health.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
There's an enormous difference between constant ad hominem name-calling and judiciously applied ridicule/irony to make a particular point in a particular context.

Don't you think it would rather detract from, say, Paul's teaching on grace if he had referred to the Judaisers, consistently and throughout the epistles, as "dick-cutters"?

fwiw, he comes very close to that exact thing in Gal. 5:12. If anything, he's a tad more... um, personal... in what he's suggesting.

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
fwiw, he comes very close to that exact thing in Gal. 5:12. If anything, he's a tad more... um, personal... in what he's suggesting.

My point exactly. He does it exactly once. Which it gives it that much more force.

[ 12. May 2017, 14:41: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I'm a part of my local indivisible group which focuses on both larger public demonstrations and smaller, more focused political activism.

The first three things on that site are "Town Halls", "Local Public Events" and "District Office Visits". No mention of demonstrations that I can immediately see.

The former all look pretty grassroots to me. Of course that doesn't rule out demonstrations, but right now those little cogs of democracy look more likely (to me) to be the best place to effect any changes, rather than dreaming up fresh insults for the other side.

Again, I'm part of my local indivisible group, which has focused on both. We are close to L.A. so have participated in pretty much all of the demonstrations here-- Women's March, Immigration Ban protest at LAX, science march. All were heavily promoted in our (closed) facebook group. But we have also been a part of the more focused grassroots activism you're citing-- identifying specific local congressional Republicans that can be challenged in upcoming elections, showing up en masse at town halls, etc. All of this, again, guided by the Indivisible playbook/ advice from the experts.

Again, the value of the demonstrations/protests is consciousness-raising and community building. It was thru the Women's Protest that we gained a large number of names in our one small community to be a part of our indivisible group. Getting a mailing list of people who were committed enough to wait 4 -6 hours on a crowded train platform before jamming into an even more crowded train to get downtown was invaluable when we started going thru the slog of small-scale, grassroots activism.

As Simon wrote:

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:

As for the futility of protests, are you kidding me? The labour movement, the womens movement, the gay liberation movement and the civil rights movement are all great examples of the long term success of sustained protest action and civil disobedience. Raising consciousness in these ways are both legitimate and powerful actions for change.

I'd add to Simon's examples the Vietnam War, where the sustained protests did eventually lead to the American withdrawl. The wisdom from the seasoned political operatives who wrote Indivisible is that the demonstrations are valuable when they are sustained. While Trump will surely ignore any demonstration note devoted to praising his bigliness, the GOP as a whole will listen as they see the tide turning-- and all that implies for their own future electability. And, God help us, our future right now is in the hands of the GOP Congress

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Eutychus
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Noted and more power to you. Is any of your engagement liable to compromise your church's tax-free status? And/or how do you decide at what point you publicly commit to partisan politics? Asking for a friend... (possibly a tangent)

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
fwiw, he comes very close to that exact thing in Gal. 5:12. If anything, he's a tad more... um, personal... in what he's suggesting.

My point exactly. He does it exactly once. Which it gives it that much more force.
Agreed.

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Brenda Clough
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Noted and more power to you. Is any of your engagement liable to compromise your church's tax-free status? And/or how do you decide at what point you publicly commit to partisan politics? Asking for a friend... (possibly a tangent)

Not an issue now; Crooked Don has changed that regulation so churches can indulge freely in political activities. Go for it!

Today he has revealed the existence of tapes of his conversations with Comey. Jennifer Rubin's column today calls for subpoena-ing them. I am oppressed by a terrible feeling of deja vu. There has to be a 21st century update to this old story; perhaps the files are digital and can be uploaded to the Cloud?

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Noted and more power to you. Is any of your engagement liable to compromise your church's tax-free status? And/or how do you decide at what point you publicly commit to partisan politics? Asking for a friend... (possibly a tangent)

The church as a whole is not a part of indivisible, nor have I advocated any political involvement from the pulpit. Those things could, yes, endanger our tax-exempt status (see prior link to a local church that experienced that for a sermon that, without naming names, simply pointed out that the NT is not particularly friendly to the notion of pre-empterory first-strike wars). We are a pretty lefty congregation-- more openly so since the election-- so I'm able to say a few soft-level things, but more often one-on-one with friends rather than in my pastoral role. Our church will host forums helping our many undocumented neighbors understand their rights/ how to protect themselves in the now-frequent ICE raids, but at this point have not taken the further step of declaring ourselves to be a "sanctuary church" (although we are in a sanctuary city, so we might as well...) nor have we gotten involved in too many other political issues. Our efforts on refugee resettlement were scuttled by the ban-- I had to address that honestly as there was no way to hide that we were not doing what we had been doing and that needed explanation.

It's hard these days to know what will/will not spark an investigation/ retaliation for political protest-- so much of what we're seeing is completely unprecedented-- so I wouldn't just blithely say "we're fine". But we have been fairly careful (and, I think, thoughtful) about what we are saying/doing as a church. For myself as a pastor, I try to be cautious about using the prophetic role. I want to be courageous in speaking out as directly and explicitly as possible when I can be very very sure I'm speaking for the Lord. But that's a high bar I take very very seriously. As pastors we need to be careful about how we use the weight of our power to influence-- we can easily squander it on lesser things. These are obviously significant times-- times when we DO need to speak out and oppose some tremendous evil-- but because we are spread so many different directions-- health care, immigration, Russian ties, women, minorities, LGBT-- the risk of squandering is also a very real threat. So I try to be careful. So far my public statements have been mostly related to the immigration ban and refugee resettlement because it so closely impacts our immediate neighbors.

ymmv. It is a very fraught decision and not sure I'm a model for anyone-- I'm finding my way along with everyone else.

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mr cheesy
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There was a lovely tweet from AP a little while ago. It reads:

quote:
BREAKING: Trump lawyer: Tax returns from past 10 years show no "income of any type from Russian sources," with few exceptions.
No extra comment needed.

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Gramps49
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Now Trump is threatening Comey by saying Comey better hope there were no tapes of the dinner.

Ah, Mr. Trump, you don't know your history. Nixon was impeached because of some tapes, especially a 13-minute gap in a certain tape.

And he is also threatening to cancel all future press briefings and release only written responses to questions.

This is siege mentality--Nixon repeating.

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Today he has revealed the existence of tapes of his conversations with Comey.

Do you have a source for that? His tweet doesn't say so and neither does the article. It's just more chaff for people to chase after as a distraction.

quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
ymmv. It is a very fraught decision and not sure I'm a model for anyone-- I'm finding my way along with everyone else.

I never thought I'd need a [Votive] for reasons like this for a church leader in the USA. How times have changed.

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Do you have a source for that? His tweet doesn't say so and neither does the article. It's just more chaff for people to chase after as a distraction.

Rubin's piece in the WP

I'm still of the opinion that Trump just repeats back to people what he hears them say to or about him.

I doubt there are tapes. But then I doubt whether Trump really knows if there are or aren't any.

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Brenda Clough
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It is a tweet and, therefore, entirely suspect. After the declarations of just the past 24 hours (did you know that Trump invented the term 'priming the pump'? He assured the Economist this was so, and there is a transcript) I would go outside and check if he said the sky was blue.
It is this complete disregard for fact and truth that is the most disturbing, and that will inflict long-term damage. (Is this what Jesus was referring to, the Sin against the Holy Spirit? If you lose the sense of what is true, discourse becomes impossible.) It is as if he is completely unmoored from reality, extremely worrying in a person who has a nuclear button.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:


quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
ymmv. It is a very fraught decision and not sure I'm a model for anyone-- I'm finding my way along with everyone else.

I never thought I'd need a [Votive] for reasons like this for a church leader in the USA. How times have changed.
Thank you. I find my heart "strangely warmed" (or not so strangely). I have struggled with fear my whole life and now that I'm at a ripe old age, I'm finding it's time to put my fears on the line and be bold. Pray for courage for us all!
[Votive]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Gramps49
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From the (Trump)'s mouth:
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Eutychus
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# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
From the (Trump)'s mouth:

Ahem.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Do you have a source for that? His tweet doesn't say so and neither does the article. It's just more chaff for people to chase after as a distraction.

Rubin's piece in the WP
Brenda Clough claimed Trump
quote:
has revealed the existence of tapes of his conversations with Comey
This he has not done, and neither has the article. Which is what I was requesting a source for. Like I say, it's just chaff, a distraction, and boy are people here falling for it.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It is a tweet and, therefore, entirely suspect.

The.Tweet.Does.Not.Claim.The.Existence.Of.Tapes.

It says Comey
quote:
better hope there are no tapes
It makes you speculate that there are, and waste your time and energy speculating that. Do you enjoy being trolled by Trump?

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Og, King of Bashan

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Obviously there's a tape. I mean Obama had the audacity to personally demand that Trump's wires be tapped, right? So what's to say that such a sick individual wasn't also bugging his transition meetings? You find that tape, and it will clearly back up Trump. [Razz]

(We sometimes meet with potential clients who have lost lots of money to someone who is filing for bankruptcy. They will tell us that this guy is a liar, that you shouldn't trust a thing he says, and that thay know that he's got a million stashed away. "How do you know that?" we ask. Well, the liar told me that he did!)

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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy

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Brenda Clough
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And it doesn't matter. Because tomorrow there'll be a totally different story. A constantly moving target, blowing smoke all the way.

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Eutychus
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So why did you bother to report it here as fact and not as distracting speculation?

[brick wall]

[ 12. May 2017, 17:46: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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Brenda Clough
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Drat, hit the key too fast. This explicates the fantabulous contradictions of the situation as it now stands.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Gramps49
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And why was Spicer hiding in (or is it among) the bushes?

Seth Meyers' A Closer Look

[ 12. May 2017, 20:30: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It is a tweet and, therefore, entirely suspect.

The.Tweet.Does.Not.Claim.The.Existence.Of.Tapes.

It says Comey
quote:
better hope there are no tapes

Actually Trump's tweet says:

quote:
better hope that there are no "tapes"
You forgot the scare quotes around "tapes". Which is interesting because Trump used scare quotes around "wires tapped" in his most infamous tweet to date. His spokesminion later used that fact to try to spin the somewhat straightforward accusation of the tweet.

On the other hand Trump has a well known love of surveilling those around him so it would not surprise me if there actually were recordings of his conversations with James Comey (and likely others). Trump and his followers also have a history of tipping their hands about their various dirty tricks, so this also fits the pattern.

I don't claim any special knowledge or inside information, but given Trump's past behavior and the circumstantial evidence I'd give it slightly better than even odds that some kind of audio recording exists of a lot of his conversations.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
There was a lovely tweet from AP a little while ago. It reads:

quote:
BREAKING: Trump lawyer: Tax returns from past 10 years show no "income of any type from Russian sources," with few exceptions.
No extra comment needed.
Oh, I think one extra comment is needed. The law firm making the claim won an interesting award recently:

quote:
Morgan, Lewis & Bockius, the law firm advising President-elect Donald Trump on handling his business conflicts, won the Russia Law Firm of the Year award in 2016.

The law firm announced the award in a press release last May, noting it was recognized in the Chambers & Partners' 2016 Chambers Europe guide. According to Morgan Lewis' website, the firm's Moscow office staffs more than 40 lawyers who are well known in the Russian market and "have deep familiarity with the local legislation, practices and key players."

There's always some factoid that just makes everything associated with Trump that much more surreal.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
You forgot the scare quotes around "tapes". Which is interesting because Trump used scare quotes around "wires tapped" in his most infamous tweet to date.

To my mind the evidence that Trump is deliberately mimicking the Watergate scandal is becoming overwhelming.

That in turn suggests those tweets and photo-ops are maximised for trolling purposes, which in turn suggests intent. I find what that says about Trump's character scary, especially for someone in his position.

You may well be right about tipping his hand, but either way I think the whole process reveals his utter hubris. He is sure he can troll his audience and get away with it. This is consistent with my own experience of con artists.

I would love to be able to assert that this hubris is sure to bring about his downfall, but it's also my experience with con artists that they can do this - and tip their hands - and still get away with it; and so far Trump has done. The initiative in each of these mini-scandals has been on his side. Whatever brings him down will be something for which he is not prepared and in which he does not have the initiative.

Another big and worrying misconception to my mind (fuelled by those epithets...) is that Trump is incompetent; he may not be a competent president, but he is clearly a highly competent con artist or he would have been in jail long before now.

In his current role Trump is under so much scrutiny that it will be harder for him to wriggle than most con artists (although on the other hand he clearly has more power at his disposal). I should think he will eventually get nailed by criminal proceedings, probably for something trivially minor, but I think it will take far far longer than many of his opponents hope. His cunning, and ability to survive, should not be underestimated.

[ 13. May 2017, 07:14: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I should think he will eventually get nailed by criminal proceedings, probably for something trivially minor, but I think it will take far far longer than many of his opponents hope. His cunning, and ability to survive, should not be underestimated.

I think you overestimate his "cunning". But what shouldn't be underestimated is how far the Republicans will go to defend their own decision to back him. They will keep him in office as long as they can.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I think you overestimate his "cunning". But what shouldn't be underestimated is how far the Republicans will go to defend their own decision to back him. They will keep him in office as long as they can.

I agree that shouldn't be underestimated either. I'm assessing his cunning on how far he's got in his career without being arrested, and my experience with con artists.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Eutychus--

He's a very rich man, who can afford expensive lawyers to keep/get him out of trouble. That makes a huge difference, IMHO.

I don't remember details, but IIRC there've been lawsuits and investigations. A web search would probably pull up a list.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
You forgot the scare quotes around "tapes". Which is interesting because Trump used scare quotes around "wires tapped" in his most infamous tweet to date.

To my mind the evidence that Trump is deliberately mimicking the Watergate scandal is becoming overwhelming.

That in turn suggests those tweets and photo-ops are maximised for trolling purposes, which in turn suggests intent. I find what that says about Trump's character scary, especially for someone in his position.

You may well be right about tipping his hand, but either way I think the whole process reveals his utter hubris. He is sure he can troll his audience and get away with it. This is consistent with my own experience of con artists.

I would love to be able to assert that this hubris is sure to bring about his downfall, but it's also my experience with con artists that they can do this - and tip their hands - and still get away with it; and so far Trump has done. The initiative in each of these mini-scandals has been on his side. Whatever brings him down will be something for which he is not prepared and in which he does not have the initiative.

Another big and worrying misconception to my mind (fuelled by those epithets...) is that Trump is incompetent; he may not be a competent president, but he is clearly a highly competent con artist or he would have been in jail long before now.

In his current role Trump is under so much scrutiny that it will be harder for him to wriggle than most con artists (although on the other hand he clearly has more power at his disposal). I should think he will eventually get nailed by criminal proceedings, probably for something trivially minor, but I think it will take far far longer than many of his opponents hope. His cunning, and ability to survive, should not be underestimated.

This is my take on what's happening as well-- the parallels seem too striking to be anything but deliberate. The hubris is astonishing-- but so far he seems to be able to survive and even thrive above it all, which yes, seems a lot like trolling. In a man with so much power it is indeed chilling.

not-all-that-tangental: does anyone know if Jeff Sessions is related to former FBI director Wm Sessions? Google does not appear to have the answer for me. If there is a relationship it would seem to fit this same pattern of interwoven relationships and deliberate "undoings"-- Wm Sessions being the first (and until last week only) FBI director dismissed from office (by Pres. Clinton-- for ethics violations) before completing his term; Jeff Sessions apparently being closely involved in Comey's firing.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

not-all-that-tangental: does anyone know if Jeff Sessions is related to former FBI director Wm Sessions? Google does not appear to have the answer for me. If there is a relationship it would seem to fit this same pattern of interwoven relationships and deliberate "undoings"-- Wm Sessions being the first (and until last week only) FBI director dismissed from office (by Pres. Clinton-- for ethics violations) before completing his term; Jeff Sessions apparently being closely involved in Comey's firing.

According to several major news networks, they're not related.

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overheard on a Welsh bus-stop: Jesus don't care about you, he's only interested in your soul

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:

not-all-that-tangental: does anyone know if Jeff Sessions is related to former FBI director Wm Sessions? Google does not appear to have the answer for me. If there is a relationship it would seem to fit this same pattern of interwoven relationships and deliberate "undoings"-- Wm Sessions being the first (and until last week only) FBI director dismissed from office (by Pres. Clinton-- for ethics violations) before completing his term; Jeff Sessions apparently being closely involved in Comey's firing.

According to several major news networks, they're not related.
Ah, thanks. I tried google but could only find enough to show me that Wm. isn't Jeff's father (only 16 years older) but not enough to show they weren't related in some way.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I tried google but could only find enough to show me that Wm. isn't Jeff's father (only 16 years older).

That's certainly old enough to father a child.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I think you overestimate his "cunning". But what shouldn't be underestimated is how far the Republicans will go to defend their own decision to back him. They will keep him in office as long as they can.

I agree that shouldn't be underestimated either. I'm assessing his cunning on how far he's got in his career without being arrested, and my experience with con artists.
His father, the source of his wealth to begin with, was very connected.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Nick Tamen

Ship's Wayfaring Fool
# 15164

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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I tried google but could only find enough to show me that Wm. isn't Jeff's father (only 16 years older).

That's certainly old enough to father a child.
Indeed. But Jeff Sessions is Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, suggesting hs father isn't/wasn't named William

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The first thing God says to Moses is, "Take off your shoes." We are on holy ground. Hard to believe, but the truest thing I know. — Anne Lamott

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Nick Tamen:
quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I tried google but could only find enough to show me that Wm. isn't Jeff's father (only 16 years older).

That's certainly old enough to father a child.
Indeed. But Jeff Sessions is Jefferson Beauregard Sessions III, suggesting hs father isn't/wasn't named William
Sorry-- got us off on tangent. My google search did reveal the fathers of both Jeff and Wm, so that I knew Wm wasn't his father, but the 16 year gap did leave open the possibility Wm was an older brother or uncle. But it appears that is not the case so we can let this particular conspiracy theory drop. No worries-- there are more than enough other nefarious coincidental connections to keep us occupied.

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Always kick a man when he's down, can't remember who said that.

Me. It's a beautiful saying. Have you heard it used before? Because I haven’t heard it. I mean, I just … I came up with it a couple of days ago and I thought it was good. It’s what you have to do.

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Z--

LOL. Nice imitation. Now, if T would just claim to have come up with things from the Bible, maybe his evangelical supporters might look at him more critically.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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