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Source: (consider it) Thread: "The Left" cares too much about [insert cause here]
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Is there a response to this?

It is an argument I increasingly hear from generally left-leaning people and those on the right.

"What we care about is health, education, jobs, ... Why is all they ever speak about gay marriage and racism?"

And this from (some) people who support same sex marriage and immigration.

I'd say, being Left-ly inclined, they do talk about other things. But others see a focus on, what is to them, peripheral issues.

Do they have a point? How would you respond? I possess a small brain, despite my love of politics, and do not know what to say apart from putting out other ideas raised by our traditonally Left-leaning [somewhat] major party and pointing out equality is rather important. But to them the gays and immigrants get all the attention.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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I'm sorry that they think human rights are a peripheral issue. That says a lot about them, don't you think?

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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You may have noticed we're having an election over in the UK. The Labour party has/will have a manifesto premised almost entirely around health, jobs, eduction...

'The Left' online may overlap with Left wing political policy, but it's not its entirety, not by a long chalk.

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Lost in Space

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
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Definitely, mousethief. What concerns me also is people who support equality are saying it. Maybe I hang around the wrong people.

As DocTor writes they have manifestos covering many areas. But people say the focus is always on gays, or the poor, or refugees: and not them and their needs. I do not see it, but wonder where it comes from. It is hard to get an answer.

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Arethosemyfeet
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It's pretty simple. People who want to vote for the right, despite knowing the consequences, are trying to deflect blame for their decision onto left wing political parties. It's the sort of self-justification we all engage in when caught doing something we know is wrong but don't want to stop doing.
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Rocinante
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quote:
Originally posted by Arethosemyfeet:
It's pretty simple. People who want to vote for the right, despite knowing the consequences, are trying to deflect blame for their decision onto left wing political parties. It's the sort of self-justification we all engage in when caught doing something we know is wrong but don't want to stop doing.

This.

When Labour do have a policy platform based around health, education and jobs, they get accused of being unpatriotic Trotskyites who've deserted the working class. I suppose Tony Blair didn't run that risk as his priorities were "Education, education and education".

I don't know if your acquaintances remember, but it was a Tory-led coalition that legalised gay marriage. David Cameron was very keen on human rights - they are relatively cheap to implement. Lets see where we are on health, education and jobs after five more years of austerity and a cliff-edge Brexit.

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Martin60
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# 368

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[being left rather than being insistently inclusive, strongly benevolent, compassionate, empathic, friendly, identificatory to, with the right.]

[ 13. May 2017, 10:12: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

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simontoad
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# 18096

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I am increasingly uncomfortable with the efficacy of argument to influence someone's political position. The proven way to achieve political change in a democracy is to tell people what they want to hear, and then do what you think needs doing.

I am presently experimenting with the use of colors and smells to achieve my desired outcomes at the ballot box. I'm going to spray people with eucalyptus at the polling place and wear bright green.

A similar strategy is to do annoying things to voters as they roll up to vote, wearing a prominent campaign badge put out by the other side.

Serious bit: If someone disagrees with you, just say "Oh, you are so right. You know, I think [insert name of favored candidate] has had some great things to say about those things."

OK, It was going to be a serious bit but then some cynical bastard started typing again.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:

"What we care about is health, education, jobs, ... Why is all they ever speak about gay marriage and racism?"



I tell them, as far as gay rights, that it's because this is their moment in history. It is not only a political issue but a consciousness raising time for everyone. Once upon a time, all the left seemed to talk about was voting rights for women. The great thing is that, in time, things like gays getting married will be just like women voting, both left and right will say, "Well, duh."
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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Twilight:
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:

"What we care about is health, education, jobs, ... Why is all they ever speak about gay marriage and racism?"



I tell them, as far as gay rights, that it's because this is their moment in history. It is not only a political issue but a consciousness raising time for everyone. Once upon a time, all the left seemed to talk about was voting rights for women. The great thing is that, in time, things like gays getting married will be just like women voting, both left and right will say, "Well, duh."
The thing is ALL of these things are important and SHOULD be important. But each of us as individuals has only so much time/ energy/ passion to give. Which is why we need to be part of a community where we can focus on one or two important issues while trusting and (this is key!) supporting others who are focusing in different areas. The problem comes when we treat it as a zero-sum game, which to some degree it is-- our time/ energy/ passion is a limited resource. But we need to get past thinking of this as a competition but work more cooperatively and collaboratively-- to see how all these issues are inter-connected in a general respect for human life and flourishing.

In the US in particular this is key right now. The sheer volume & pace of horrendous policies coming out of the white house right now seems intentionally designed to beat us down. And, to the OP, it is all over the map of anti-lefty actions-- immigration, health care, education-- anti- women, LGBT, foreigners, disabled. It seems intended to divide us and overwhelm us. Now more than ever I think it is important for us (lefties) to figure out how to be able to both focus our own time/ energy/ passion while also supporting and encouraging those working in other related areas.

Churches might be a good model for this, as we've always had a similar problem there as the different ministry areas-- music, education, outreach, spiritual care, missions-- compete for budget $$ and for volunteers. Yet all are important, worthy, good things for churches to care about. Churches that manage to do that well in a way that builds up all these ministry areas without getting bogged down into petty in-fighting could be a good model about how to do this in our political engagement as well.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Schroedinger's cat

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Us lefties are very concerned about health, education, jobs, the environment, all the stuff that others are concerned about.

However, the current pressure points are immigration and gay rights. These are currently areas under attack by authoritarian governments. These are the battlefields that have been chosen (significantly by the right). More importantly, these are the people groups who are most significantly under attack by these policies.

I care passionately about the NHS. About providing health care for people who need it. Maybe these messages aren't heard, because there is so much of what makes us good people that is under attack. Maybe because in the US, the NHS is not the issue as such, although health care is.

But immigration and gay rights are global issues. So maybe they get more global coverage than purely national issues.

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take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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Anglican_Brat
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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:
Us lefties are very concerned about health, education, jobs, the environment, all the stuff that others are concerned about.

However, the current pressure points are immigration and gay rights. These are currently areas under attack by authoritarian governments. These are the battlefields that have been chosen (significantly by the right). More importantly, these are the people groups who are most significantly under attack by these policies.

I care passionately about the NHS. About providing health care for people who need it. Maybe these messages aren't heard, because there is so much of what makes us good people that is under attack. Maybe because in the US, the NHS is not the issue as such, although health care is.

But immigration and gay rights are global issues. So maybe they get more global coverage than purely national issues.

The extension of same-sex marriage might have been easier because they do not impinge directly on economic ideology. You really don't need to be a socialist to support same-sex marriage.

When I studied political science, I learned the tension between the "Old Left" and the "New Left", that basically allowed conservatives in the United States and to a lesser extent, Canada, to whisk away substantive amounts of the working class. The "Old Left" arising out of the Fordist era of the Fifties were primarily concerned with economic issues, with job security, with the social safety net. The New Left arose in the wake of the Sixties and were predominately concerned with identity: feminism, minority rights, and LGBT causes.

During the Seventies and Eighties, the welfare state and the Keynesian consensus were being dismantled by rightwing governments, while the New Left were concerned with identity issues. To some who were of the Old Left, the New Left betrayed them and allowed the welfare state to whittle away.

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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mousethief

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# 953

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There's also a divide-and-conquer going on, at least in the US and I assume there are analogues in Britain also. The rich want to rape the country of all its wealth, and to do this they need lower-class righties to vote for their candidates. So they find wedge issues. "Look at those lefties they don't care about your job, all they care about is gays." And of course when the righties get elected they don't do squat about jobs or any of the other wedge issues they campaigned on.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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gorpo
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There's also a divide-and-conquer going on, at least in the US and I assume there are analogues in Britain also. The rich want to rape the country of all its wealth, and to do this they need lower-class righties to vote for their candidates. So they find wedge issues. "Look at those lefties they don't care about your job, all they care about is gays." And of course when the righties get elected they don't do squat about jobs or any of the other wedge issues they campaigned on.

Who are the richies you´re talking about? That´s such non-sense. The elite in USA and Europe is socially liberal. It´s not the poor people who care about feminism or transgender issues.
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gorpo
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# 17025

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quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:


But immigration and gay rights are global issues. So maybe they get more global coverage than purely national issues. [/QB]

Global issues? How many times you hear about the situation of women and gays in Saudi Arabia? How many times do you see lefties concerned about this "global issues"?

You are not concerned with people, you are concerned with a cultural agenda.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
Who are the richies you´re talking about? That´s such non-sense. The elite in USA and Europe is socially liberal. It´s not the poor people who care about feminism or transgender issues.

Incorrect. There are rich liberals. However, those on the telly decrying them are rich themselves. "Liberal Elite" is a smokescreen used to hide the removal of everyone's rights.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
Global issues? How many times you hear about the situation of women and gays in Saudi Arabia? How many times do you see lefties concerned about this "global issues"?

You are not concerned with people, you are concerned with a cultural agenda.

Well, since lefties are the ones who have qualms about flogging the Saudis weapons because of their appalling human rights record, and the righties are the ones who don't give a shit about that, I'm on pretty safe ground saying "where have you been for the past three decades?"

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Lost in Space

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gorpo
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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
When I studied political science, I learned the tension between the "Old Left" and the "New Left", that basically allowed conservatives in the United States and to a lesser extent, Canada, to whisk away substantive amounts of the working class. The "Old Left" arising out of the Fordist era of the Fifties were primarily concerned with economic issues, with job security, with the social safety net. The New Left arose in the wake of the Sixties and were predominately concerned with identity: feminism, minority rights, and LGBT causes.

Yeah because the "Old left" wanted to change economical system trough a revolution, and failed. The "New left" wants to undermine the very culture that they believe is what supports this economical system. That includes christianity, which was the heart of our culture. Look at the result in our mainline and state churches all over US and Europe, for example: they are pretty much empty, and whoever is still inside is not hearing anything distinctively christian.
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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
There's also a divide-and-conquer going on, at least in the US and I assume there are analogues in Britain also. The rich want to rape the country of all its wealth, and to do this they need lower-class righties to vote for their candidates. So they find wedge issues. "Look at those lefties they don't care about your job, all they care about is gays." And of course when the righties get elected they don't do squat about jobs or any of the other wedge issues they campaigned on.

Who are the richies you´re talking about? That´s such non-sense. The elite in USA and Europe is socially liberal. It´s not the poor people who care about feminism or transgender issues.
I will not speak for Europe but the vast majority of the wealthy in the US are conservative. There are certainly notable exceptions, particularly in the newly wealthy tech industry, but in general, the wealthy are conservative and that's what's driving much of our politics today. From an American pov, I would say mousethief's divide-and-conqueor strategy is spot on, and dovetails with what I was saying in my prior post.

"Liberal elite" as a right-wing pejorative is mostly flung at professional-class people who are "elite" educationally but not all that elite financially: journalists, academics, scientists. They are different enough from non-college educated working-class people, and generally a step above them on the financial ladder (although not that much-- google adjunct faculty pay) so that they make a good scapegoat for working class concerns about wages & jobs. But they are certainly not wealthy and have not been the recipients of the vast transfer of wealth that has taken place in the last decade or so.

[ 13. May 2017, 17:33: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:


But immigration and gay rights are global issues. So maybe they get more global coverage than purely national issues.

Global issues? How many times you hear about the situation of women and gays in Saudi Arabia? How many times do you see lefties concerned about this "global issues"?. [/QB]
Um, pretty much always.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:

quote:

But immigration and gay rights are global issues. So maybe they get more global coverage than purely national issues.

Global issues? How many times you hear about the situation of women and gays in Saudi Arabia? How many times do you see lefties concerned about this "global issues"?

You are not concerned with people, you are concerned with a cultural agenda.

Quite often. And if you want to make such stupid statements again, please join me in hell where I will tear you a new one and then kick the shit out of it.

[ 13. May 2017, 17:46: Message edited by: Schroedinger's cat ]

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Blog
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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
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Arethosemyfeet
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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
they are pretty much empty, and whoever is still inside is not hearing anything distinctively christian.

I'm amazed to discover that when we commemorated the crucifixion and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ 4 weeks ago there was nothing "distinctively Christian" about the salvation he won for us which was preached that day and is preached Sunday by Sunday in churches all over this nation and plenty of others. Please put your broad brush away, you clearly know not of what you speak.
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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
You are not concerned with people, you are concerned with a cultural agenda.

Taking care of people -- feeding them, housing them, healing them, protecting them from the powerful -- is not a "cultural agenda" -- or if it is, there's nothing wrong with being a cultural agenda. It's Christ's agenda.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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cliffdweller
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Indeed. For those business-types who are so obsessed with ecclesiastical mission statements, here's Jesus':

quote:
“The Spirit of the Lord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim freedom for the prisoners and recovery of sight for the blind,
to release the oppressed, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”

Then he rolled up the scroll, gave it back to the attendant and sat down. The eyes of everyone in the synagogue were fastened on him, and he began by saying to them, “Today this scripture is fulfilled in your hearing.” Luke 4:18-21



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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Holy Smoke
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# 14866

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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:


But immigration and gay rights are global issues. So maybe they get more global coverage than purely national issues.

Global issues? How many times you hear about the situation of women and gays in Saudi Arabia? How many times do you see lefties concerned about this "global issues"?[/QB]
Generally speaking, "lefties" wish to impose their cultural values on the entire human population.
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Holy Smoke:
quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:


But immigration and gay rights are global issues. So maybe they get more global coverage than purely national issues.

Global issues? How many times you hear about the situation of women and gays in Saudi Arabia? How many times do you see lefties concerned about this "global issues"?

Generally speaking, "lefties" wish to impose their cultural values on the entire human population. [/QB]
[Killing me]
Wait, don't tell me that was a serious statement

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
situation of women and gays in Saudi Arabia? How many times do you see lefties concerned about this "global issues"?

Among the left-leaning? All the time. Usually they are then told to shut up for reasons of real-politick.

OTOH usually you only hear these issues from the right when they are wheeled out to invade the enemy of the month.

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
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Alfalfa

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and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
situation of women and gays in Saudi Arabia? How many times do you see lefties concerned about this "global issues"?

Among the left-leaning? All the time. Usually they are then told to shut up for reasons of real-politick.

OTOH usually you only hear these issues from the right when they are wheeled out to invade the enemy of the month.

Similar to the way after Newtown when we were calling for better gun control the right was very concerned we were missing the point re access to mental health care. But last week when they were hacking away at Obamacare suddenly that wasn't such a priority

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Holy Smoke
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# 14866

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by Holy Smoke:
quote:
Originally posted by gorpo:
quote:
Originally posted by Schroedinger's cat:


But immigration and gay rights are global issues. So maybe they get more global coverage than purely national issues.

Global issues? How many times you hear about the situation of women and gays in Saudi Arabia? How many times do you see lefties concerned about this "global issues"?

Generally speaking, "lefties" wish to impose their cultural values on the entire human population.

[Killing me]
Wait, don't tell me that was a serious statement [/QB]

Oh, don't tell me it's not true...
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mousethief

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I'll cop to it. As a liberal, I'd like everybody to be held to standards of justice and fairness and economic justice too. As opposed to conservatives who want everybody held to the standards of their prejudice against gays, women, people of colour, and so forth.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Callan
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# 525

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Originally posted by Holy Smoke:

quote:
Generally speaking, "lefties" wish to impose their cultural values on the entire human population.
The word impose is doing a lot of work in this sentence. If you mean by it "impose their values on all others by force majeure" it is so obviously false as to be hardly worth discussing. If you mean that they believe that their values are correct and should be more widely held, then so does everyone else except a few eccentric relativists.

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Posts: 9585 | From: Citizen of the World | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Twilight

Puddleglum's sister
# 2832

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Yes. I wish to impose decent health care on everyone.
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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Holy Smoke:
Generally speaking, "lefties" wish to impose their cultural values on the entire human population.

Let's see what those "cultural values" are: That black and brown people as valuable as white ones? That women and children and old people are as valuable as men? That disabled people are as valuable as those full in physical and intellectual capability? I could go on but I'm sure that even you get the drift.

If you mean that lefties want everyone treated with the same privileges that white men with a job possess then yes, I suppose lefties can be accused of imposing cultural values.

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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For me, the biggest problem isn't the values that "lefties" wish to impose but that they have failed to achieve any lasting imposition of those values. Some of the best achievements (quality universal health care, quality universal education, quality welfare) are in the process of being dismantled.

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Citizen of the world.

Posts: 31514 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
For me, the biggest problem isn't the values that "lefties" wish to impose but that they have failed to achieve any lasting imposition of those values. Some of the best achievements (quality universal health care, quality universal education, quality welfare) are in the process of being dismantled.

... by righties.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

Posts: 62010 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
For me, the biggest problem isn't the values that "lefties" wish to impose but that they have failed to achieve any lasting imposition of those values. Some of the best achievements (quality universal health care, quality universal education, quality welfare) are in the process of being dismantled.

Yes I remember one of the more prescient commentators warning about that during Obama's term-- so much of what he accomplished was done (by necessity) thru executive order it was vulnerable to precisely that. Of course, 6 1/2 months ago we were all so sure of ourselves we didn't imagine someone would come in and undo it all. Idiots, we were.
[Help]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
For me, the biggest problem isn't the values that "lefties" wish to impose but that they have failed to achieve any lasting imposition of those values. Some of the best achievements (quality universal health care, quality universal education, quality welfare) are in the process of being dismantled.

... by righties.
...in the interest of profits for the few rather than benefits for all (including the few who would make a profit!)

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If someone takes a shot at President Trump will his bodyguards shout "Donald Duck"?

Posts: 23625 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004  |  IP: Logged
Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
# 64

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Yes, I want to "impose" values of caring for other people, looking after them, fighting for their health and education, fighting for decent jobs, fighting for them not to be abused.

I want to "impose" values of each individual human being having value and worth, having importance - because they are all made in the image of God, but because they are human and being human is something worthwhile.

I want to "impose" values of letting people make their own choices - about their sexuality, their expression of this. About who they see themselves as.

I want to do this because "imposing" is the only way of doing this against those in power who would deprive people of their rights, their value, their self-definition, their self-worth.

I do this because a) I am a decent human being who values others and b) because this is the story and message I get from the Bible.

I take it you have a problem with that, holy smoke? So I have started a hell thread just for you. I am sure you will enjoy it.

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Lord may all my hard times be healing times
take out this broken heart and renew my mind.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The left cares too much about social issues and not near enough about economic justice. Starting with tax policies. Corporations must pay much more, and it is time to restore public ownership of basic services, utilities, etc. Some things must never be operated with profit as the guiding principle.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
# 9748

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The left cares too much about social issues and not near enough about economic justice. Starting with tax policies. Corporations must pay much more, and it is time to restore public ownership of basic services, utilities, etc. Some things must never be operated with profit as the guiding principle.

I refer you to the UK Labour Party manifesto, 2017.

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Lost in Space

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The left cares too much about social issues and not near enough about economic justice. Starting with tax policies. Corporations must pay much more, and it is time to restore public ownership of basic services, utilities, etc. Some things must never be operated with profit as the guiding principle.

I don't believe it is possible to "care too much" about social issues. otoh, I would agree that economic justice is a vital concern that has, until recently, been overlooked by the left. The rub is that the root of the economic injustice is the way the system has been manipulated by those on the right. I think we're going to have more luck getting lefties to care about economic inequality that we'll have with the right.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Anglican_Brat
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# 12349

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At a church stewardship workshop, the presenter frankly stated, "It's easier to talk about sex than money."

The divide between social issues (particular involving LGBT issues and women rights) and economic issues, might be due to the fact that no one necessarily has to pay higher taxes if gay marriage is legalized.

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The left cares too much about social issues and not near enough about economic justice.

This confuses me. Economic justice **IS** a social issue.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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Kaplan Corday
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# 16119

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quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
If you mean that they believe that their values are correct and should be more widely held, then so does everyone else except a few eccentric relativists.

Actually, one of the central theoretical issues on the left (ie self-styled progressives) is that of cultural relativism (who are we to pontificate that burqas or FGM are wrong, or that democracy is right?) versus Enlightenemnt universal values.
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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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That's bullshit. I have never seen a conservative source talk about FGM. All of the spleen I have seen about FGM has come from the left. You're believing what you want to believe instead of what the evidence demonstrates.

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God has shown me that I should not call any man impure or unclean. --Acts 10:28

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simontoad
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# 18096

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I rest my case.

Now, anyone want some blue with this scent of kookaburra?

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Arethosemyfeet
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# 17047

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
That's bullshit. I have never seen a conservative source talk about FGM. All of the spleen I have seen about FGM has come from the left. You're believing what you want to believe instead of what the evidence demonstrates.

Now, now, the right get very interested in FGM when they think it's Muslims doing it. See UKIP recently. They want all "at risk" (by which they mean Muslim) girls to be examined annually for signs of FGM. Nothing like intrusive personal examination by the state from a young age to promote cultural integration, healthy attitudes to sex and positive body image.
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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Thanks for all the comments. Food for thought.

quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The left cares too much about social issues and not near enough about economic justice. Starting with tax policies. Corporations must pay much more, and it is time to restore public ownership of basic services, utilities, etc. Some things must never be operated with profit as the guiding principle.

I refer you to the UK Labour Party manifesto, 2017.
But do they talk about it as much as they do other issues? Can they? I like to think I read the news widely, as do these acquanitances and strangers I speak to, or who speak to me on public transport, but they do press the point they hear more on "identity" politics.

Anglican_Brat's Old and New Left comments may come into play here. Did "the Left" make a conscious decision to play to these issues stronger than others? Is it as they have easier fixes?

[and just for context, in this "enlightened" nation in which I reside same-sex marriage is still verboten...pending a plebiscite and free parliamentary vote of which I've heard nothing for quite some time... It may be a "live" issue but I think it is seen as a minority one by most of the populace, despite a majority supporting it; not a big issue for them]

Posts: 7071 | From: Albury, Australia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757

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quote:
Originally posted by Kaplan Corday:
quote:
Originally posted by Callan:
If you mean that they believe that their values are correct and should be more widely held, then so does everyone else except a few eccentric relativists.

Actually, one of the central theoretical issues on the left (ie self-styled progressives) is that of cultural relativism (who are we to pontificate that burqas or FGM are wrong, or that democracy is right?) versus Enlightenemnt universal values.
Please be so kind as to show me an example of a leftist who accepts FGM on cultural relativist grounds.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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