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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I'm hoping that T will just flounce and leave. "You don't like me? LOSERS! I never wanted to be president, anyway." And that last bit is true.

Not gonna happen. Too much pride. He'll run again in 2020 and he will win unless there is an amazing candidate against. Incumbents, even the massively unpopular, have a huge advantage.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
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El Presidente has arrived in Paris. I know this because of the complete and utter intractable gridlock from hell on the roads this morning. Bumper to bumper all the way along the Pont de l’Alma and Avenue Montaigne and no one moving a centimetre except some very adventurous people on scooters. (Why do demagogues always arrive in the city centre in the middle of the bloody rush hour? Putin did the same.)

I’m still not sure what Macron’s playing at but incline to the view that it’s something very cunning. Tonight he is inviting Trump for dinner at the Eiffel Tower restaurant with cooking from one of France’s most famous chefs. I suspect Trump, whose diet is mostly limited to well-done steaks and ketchup, isn’t going to enjoy it all that much.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
I’m still not sure what Macron’s playing at

This is a good and intriguing question.

I would guess a) that he's trying to keep the initiative in the relationship and thus keep Trump off-balance b) possibly seeking (dreaded word) optics that present him as a contender for leader of the free world as opposed to a bumbling jet-lagged buffoon (Trump must surely have some terrible jet-lag arriving at this time of day and going on to a full programme!) c) French intelligence services will be hoovering up any off-guarded comments from Trump or his entourage and storing them away for future use.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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If this article is true then I would say democracy no longer exists in the US. It's a pretence. Big business runs the show and has a cloak called 'elections'.

I wonder what the future will bring? People who can buy lawyers and pay for legal bullying hold sway in many places. The Grenfell residents were bullied in this way when they complained about fire safety.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Barnabas62
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Welcome to the thought world of billionaires. Boogie. Basically, anything and anybody can be bought.

Democracy cannot thrive if representatives can be easily suborned or manipulated. That's been the underminer of Western democracies for a long time. Stick a billionaire in the White House and it was bound to get worse.

No obvious cure in sight. Tobacco, coal, oil, they've all now got a bigger piece of the pie.

It might take a while for the rust bucketeers to realise "we wuz robbed" - again.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
If this article is true then I would say democracy no longer exists in the US. It's a pretence. Big business runs the show and has a cloak called 'elections'.


It is most obvious in the USA but this has ben the case in Britain too. The democratic elections are there but the democratic government is not. Business interest have held sway since landed interests did!

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Jane R
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la vie en rouge:
quote:
(Why do demagogues always arrive in the city centre in the middle of the bloody rush hour? Putin did the same.)
Because they can. It's one of the ways they say "Screw you, peasants!"
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Bishops Finger
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My sympathies today are with Manu. There he is, young, dashing, handsome, President of a great Republic with an illustrious history, dining at the table of one of the finest chefs in all France - with Trump...... [Projectile]

Doubtless the chef is too proud of his art, but how tempting it must be to....er.... spice Trump's haute cuisine with something suitably noxious...

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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simontoad
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Tobacco doesn't cause very much cancer at all, and it does allot of good through donations to sports clubs and sponsorships. The scientists are lying to us. That iceberg was always going to fall off...

I was only thinking today about the behavior of Big Tobacco in the '60's and onwards and the behavior of the Big Miners and Drillers towards climate science over the last twenty years. Do you think Big Slavery is too long a bow?

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Brenda Clough
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There's many and many a novel which details these things; I could give you a list. "If This Goes On" is a very common theme in genre fiction.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Brenda Clough
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Oh, and here is a POST article detailing the surprisingly simple reason for this French visit.
The salient quote:
"President Trump was not expected to attend France’s Bastille Day, which this year will commemorate the 100th anniversary of the United States’ entry into World War I.
But then he learned there would be a military parade.
French President Emmanuel Macron told Trump in a June 27 phone call about the event, which this year will feature U.S. and French troops marching through the historic streets near the Arc de Triomphe, fighter jets cutting through the skies above, and flags, horses and military equipment on display — the sort of spectacle that Trump wanted to stage at his own inauguration in January.
Trump told Macron he would be there, according to a White House official, and French and U.S. officials rushed to schedule a last-minute trip that will last about 27 hours and include dinner at an opulent restaurant in the Eiffel Tower and a visit to Napoleon Bonaparte’s tomb. "

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Jane R
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Hasn't anybody told him that Napoleon lost the Battle of Waterloo? [Devil]
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Brenda Clough
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It must have been profoundly disappointing for him, to have a merely civilian inaugural. To be followed on the next day by millions of pussyhats on the Mall.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Penny S
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Or that the tomb is constructed so that visitors have to bow over to the emperor in order to look at it? Or so our English teacher of French (honoured for her part in the war) told us, and we all tried to look without bending over!
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la vie en rouge
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Certainly that explains why Trump accepted. But to me that was the obvious part. Manu appealed to his vanity and it worked.

The mysterious bit open to all kinds of Machiavellian interpretations is why Manu invited someone so patently unpopular. I think there’s still some one-upmanship going on. AFAICT Manu has had the best of it so far, and this adds to that. He whistles and Trump comes running.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Bishops Finger
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So it would seem, and I hope the cunning Manu enjoys his meal despite Ozymandias' presence. I also hope that the waitresses (if any be present) have been forewarned as to where to keep their hands, when not occupied in waitressing, and to not to stand too close to Ozymandias' chair....

[Ultra confused]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Jane R
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Waitresses? Surely not! They'll all be waiters who have fully mastered the art of sneering at the OOO's every move and replying to each remark with Gallic shrugs or 'Hunh?'. Like the waiter in 'M. Hulot's Holiday', only taller and in smarter uniforms (Paris, you know).
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Bishops Finger
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Yes, that does seem a more likely scenario!

[Snigger]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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I think Macron may be easing T back to the Paris accord. T spoke somewhat favorably of it today.

There was talk on NPR of how it's smart to play to the things that make T comfortable, as Saudi Arabia did. In the audio today, T sounded very relaxed. Haven't seen pictures, yet.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Jane--

quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Hasn't anybody told him that Napoleon lost the Battle of Waterloo? [Devil]

I don't suppose Macron could get ABBA back together, briefly, to sing "Waterloo" at Napoleon's crypt?
[Two face]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
I think Macron may be easing T back to the Paris accord. T spoke somewhat favorably of it today.

Oh, please. This is Trump 101. You can't trust a thing he says. And what has he said?
quote:
"Something could happen with respect to the Paris accord," he said.

Mr Trump added: "We'll see what happens."

That is right up there with the standard parent's response when a child asks for a pony for Christmas. "We'll see, dear." Trump has promised nothing, said nothing, hinted at nothing. He made a vague comment so that it did not sound like he was spitting in his host's eye. That is what any business man would do. But you are deluding yourself if you think it means that Trump has any intention of participating in the Paris Accord. Unless it is to sell you something.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Eutychus
From the edge
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France Info's chief US correspondent reckons Macron has a card to play in positioning France as the US' privileged point of contact within the EU. Trump and Merkel are daggers drawn and the UK has inconveniently removed itself from the EU, which gives France an opportunity.

Modelling himself after De Gaulle who would talk to just about anybody, Macron is seeking to restore the fortunes of French diplomacy. Or so the analysis goes.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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romanlion
editorial comment
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I'm sure Macron has Trump right where he wants him...

[Roll Eyes]

What world are you people living in?

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The decline of the world perhaps began when Anglais*, the angry language of business, replaced French as the internatonal language. And beer of the Budweiser corn variety (God is crying) replaced civilized beverages. If we all spoke French and drank wine, it would be better place, this world.


*English.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
I'm sure Macron has Trump right where he wants him...

[Roll Eyes]

What world are you people living in?

Yeah. The French were the enemy way before the Ruskies.

--------------------
The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Golden Key
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...minus contributions such as Lafayette and that tall lady in New York harbor.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by Jane R:
Hasn't anybody told him that Napoleon lost the Battle of Waterloo? [Devil]

Only with German (OK, Prussian) intervention.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Barnabas62
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@ romanlion

I suppose most of us are more puzzled or appalled by the thought world the Donald is living in. He's a very ODD human being, by any normal standards.

[ 14. July 2017, 07:23: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Eirenist
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I don't think anyone has told the French that Napoleon lost the battle of Waterloo.

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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:

I suppose most of us are more puzzled or appalled by the thought world the Donald is living in. He's a very ODD human being, by any normal standards.

Do not denigrate the odd by grouping the Cheeto in with us.
Or groping him in with us, either.

[ 14. July 2017, 13:16: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Bishops Finger
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Well, there's odd (most of us, if truth be told), and ODD, which is Trumpelstiltskin...

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Barnabas62
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How odd do you need to be in order to be ODD? A lot odder than any regular on SoF. Oddly enough.

I think a would be Shipmate Trump would have been planked before he got out of Apprentice status. Oh what joy for a hypothetical Admin, to be able to post "You're fired".

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Brenda Clough
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It's not that he's odd; if odd were a sin the Ship would be an empty hulk. Nor even is it that he's malevolent; entire Houses of Congress are malevolent as you may soon see if the Senate passes this health care legislation. It's that he is a monster of ego. Nothing is important except that it feeds his self-esteem; he wants a win or something he can declare to be a win but what it is means nothing to him. He remembers nothing and expects us all to forget what he said yesterday as well.
Macron has managed him like a master, showing him the pretty military toys, pretending to honor and listen to him. That is -all- you have to do.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
What world are you people living in?

One in which facts like Former Soviet Counterintelligence Officer at Meeting With Donald Trump Jr. and Russian Lawyer are dismissed as merely sour grapes because Hillary didn't win, apparently.

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
It's that he is a monster of ego. Nothing is important except that it feeds his self-esteem; he wants a win or something he can declare to be a win but what it is means nothing to him.

I think this is the key. It is not unusual in the corporate world to have this mentality. Typically less ham-handed, though, and with some semblance of intelligence.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

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This is an odd bit of Trumpery which the press don't seem to have called correctly.

His 'your wife is in such good shape...' gaff to Macron seems to be being read as if he meant it - after all, he has form as a letch. Whereas it seems to be classic playground bully stuff - '...for a woman who is considerably older than both you, and my own hot trophy bride' being left unspoken.

An amazing prick.

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"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
What world are you people living in?

One in which facts like Former Soviet Counterintelligence Officer at Meeting With Donald Trump Jr. and Russian Lawyer are dismissed as merely sour grapes because Hillary didn't win, apparently.
What is the alleged crime here? It isn't dismissed as sour grapes, it's dismissed because it is meaningless bullshit, and completely contrived.

No where near the level of the former POTUS telling the Russian president that he will have "more flexibility" after the election with regard to leaving NATO allies without missile defense, IMO. That is direct collusion with the Russians to submit to their will against our interests, which he did.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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Brenda Clough
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This is from the POST, but all you really need is the headline: Trump Admits His Border Wall Could Be Defeated By Medieval Siege Technology. The photograph is of a trebuchet, which seems to be standing in the green moat of the Tower of London.

[ 14. July 2017, 17:43: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Jane R
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# 331

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[Killing me]

In other news, the Society for Creative Anachronism is under investigation for un-American activities...

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Given that The Wall probably won't be built, and therefore will be invisible (IYSWIM), will Ozymandias The Great think it has been built?

[Paranoid]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Jane R
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The political cartoonists are way ahead of us.
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
What is the alleged crime here?

Oh, I see you've got your talking points delivered.

I haven't alleged anything, but solliciting a "thing of value" to influence a US election campaign is a felony, as I understand it, and this certainly looks like evidence of it.

More fundamentally than whether a crime is proven, what I find gob-smacking is the number of people for whom the level of entanglement of Trump's immediate entourage with dodgy foreign interests doesn't appear to present any ethical concern whatsoever.
quote:
No where near the level of the former POTUS telling the Russian president that he will have "more flexibility" after the election with regard to leaving NATO allies without missile defense, IMO. That is direct collusion with the Russians to submit to their will against our interests, which he did.
Oh, another talking-point. Can you point me back to where you were up in arms about this at the time? I didn't think so.

There's absolutely nothing to be gained here by comparing current misdeeds to alleged former ones. The question is whether the current US president and his team are fit to govern the country.

The speed at which his staff have to keep changing their story to keep up is a major cause for concern.

The talking-points distribution team's defence tactics appear to be taken straight from Art Buchwald on Watergate - see point 27 for example to cover your objection above.

[ 14. July 2017, 20:07: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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Not to mention points 2, 9, 19 and 32.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Oh dear. I just found out the name of the new Senate healthcare bill.

quote:
The latest Senate GOP health care bill, known as the Better Care Reconciliation Act (BRCA)...
Seriously? Are these people completely clueless, to choose such an acronym?

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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This might be useful for some of us. (free click)
From today's Jennifer Rubin column in the POST:
ternal moral truth or ethical code.”
"Let’s dispense with the “Democrats are just as bad” defense. First, I don’t much care; we collectively face a party in charge of virtually the entire federal government and the vast majority of statehouses and governorships. It’s that party’s inner moral rot that must concern us for now. Second, it’s simply not true, and saying so reveals the origin of the problem — a “woe is me” sense of victimhood that grossly exaggerates the opposition’s ills and in turn justifies its own egregious political judgments and rhetoric. If the GOP had not become unhinged about the Clintons, would it have rationalized Trump as the lesser of two evils? Only in the crazed bubble of right-wing hysteria does an ethically challenged, moderate Democrat become a threat to Western civilization and Trump the salvation of America."

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
Not to mention points 2, 9, 19 and 32.

#15 needs revision as follows: "I'd rather have a fool in the White House than a crook." Oh, wait . . .

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Formerly Foolhearty. Back after somewhat less than 40 years in the wilderness.

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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607

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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
Oh dear. I just found out the name of the new Senate healthcare bill.

quote:
The latest Senate GOP health care bill, known as the Better Care Reconciliation Act (BRCA)...
Seriously? Are these people completely clueless, to choose such an acronym?
You know the answer to this question . . . but why would a committee composed entirely of men (men who have forgotten that men, too, get breast cancer) be any more up to speed on BRCA than the fact that men, er, frequently make some little contribution to maternity.

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Formerly Foolhearty. Back after somewhat less than 40 years in the wilderness.

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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Umm, people?

Better Care Reconciliation Act would be BCRA, not BRCA.

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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607

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Ah, well. It was typical while it lasted.

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Formerly Foolhearty. Back after somewhat less than 40 years in the wilderness.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Meh. I suppose they fired their proofreaders like (almost) everybody else.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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