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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
Brenda Clough
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"In a world in which Donald Trump is president, may we all be Jimmy Carter." -- George Takei

Carter is unquestionably the most worthwhile former president we have ever had. He is also (per the Beatitudes) a man pretty well guaranteed to see God.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Pigwidgeon

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
"In a world in which Donald Trump is president, may we all be Jimmy Carter." -- George Takei

Carter is unquestionably the most worthwhile former president we have ever had. He is also (per the Beatitudes) a man pretty well guaranteed to see God.

So of course when he ran for re-election in 1980, the so-called Christian right supported Ronald Reagan.

[Disappointed]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Lamb Chopped
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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
"In a world in which Donald Trump is president, may we all be Jimmy Carter." -- George Takei

Carter is unquestionably the most worthwhile former president we have ever had.

I've always thought so.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Golden Key
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Perhaps we could get Carter and his Habitat For Humanity to build the Trumps a house on an uninhabited island? And encourage them all to resign ASAP?

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Eutychus
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I find myself blown away that at 92, and one day after being hospitalised for dehydration on the job, Carter is back doing it at grassroots level. The guy demonstrates a servant heart that has far outlasted his tenure in the White House.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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simontoad
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As everyone knows, Australia has the best TV shows about American politics. They're great. They're really great. The ratings are great. They're very impressive. Everything's great.

Planet America, which I have just switched off, tells me that if Donald Trump Jr merely solicited stuff of value from a foreign power in an election campaign, then that's a low-range offence for which he could expect a fine of up to US$5,000. That's not nothing, but it's not very much. Traps for young players stuff.

They also talked a little about Paul Manafort, and mentioned the allegations against the Clinton campaign that they might have breached campaign finance laws in receiving information about him from people in Ukraine. Now, Ukraine is not a hostile power, and Russia is. But it could still be an offence, and I don't think it can be dismissed. It has no bearing on the moral culpability of Trump's actions.

All this suggests that while Jr. might have been convicted in the court of public opinion (along with everyone else associated with Trump), he's still a long way from being sent down by a real court.

I'm still going to heckle the bastard about making sure he packs a toothbrush if I get a chance. I'm working on a raft of insults.

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Human

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Pigwidgeon

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A few weeks ago a story broke that Trump had framed fake TIME Magazine covers of himself hung in several of his resorts.

This past Friday two Democratic congressman brought into the House of Representatives an enormous printout of Don Junior’s actual TIME cover.

I’ll bet that one doesn’t get hung up all over Trump properties.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
As everyone knows, Australia has the best TV shows about American politics. They're great. They're really great. The ratings are great. They're very impressive. Everything's great.

Planet America, which I have just switched off, tells me that if Donald Trump Jr merely solicited stuff of value from a foreign power in an election campaign, then that's a low-range offence for which he could expect a fine of up to US$5,000. That's not nothing, but it's not very much. Traps for young players stuff.

They also talked a little about Paul Manafort, and mentioned the allegations against the Clinton campaign that they might have breached campaign finance laws in receiving information about him from people in Ukraine. Now, Ukraine is not a hostile power, and Russia is. But it could still be an offence, and I don't think it can be dismissed. It has no bearing on the moral culpability of Trump's actions.

All this suggests that while Jr. might have been convicted in the court of public opinion (along with everyone else associated with Trump), he's still a long way from being sent down by a real court.

I'm still going to heckle the bastard about making sure he packs a toothbrush if I get a chance. I'm working on a raft of insults.

Yes, Jr. is probably guilty only of a breach of ethics-- "only" being the operative word because to the Trumps an ethics breach is roughly equivalent to picking one's nose in private.

But SIL/BIL Jared Kushner may in fact be guilty of a criminal act for failing to disclose his multiple Russian contacts.

Which raises the intriguing question again of the strange sibling dynamics, and why Jr. released this infamously incriminating email. Was he trying to take down the guy who seems to have more than eclipsed him in daddy's eyes? Or is he just that stupid?

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
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I went to the exhibit about Ernest Shackleton's expedition at Greenwich, and bought a tee shirt with this well-known quote on it: “For scientific discovery give me Scott; for speed and efficiency of travel give me Amundsen; but when disaster strikes and all hope is gone, get down on your knees and pray for Shackleton.”

From this we can derive the larger rule that, when disaster does strike, find yourself Mr. Shackleton and tie yourself to his right ankle. And so it is if you really want to see God: find Mr. Carter. Because if any man alive today is going to stand before the throne of the Father and hear 'Well done, thou good and faithful servant,' it's Jimmy Carter.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
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Wow, that's quite a testimonial, Brenda.

I gather, from Wikipedia (so it must be True), that Mr. Carter's presidency was not entirely well-regarded, despite the many Good Things achieved.

However, he certainly hasn't let the grass grow under his feet during his post-presidential years, and his commitment to Christ, and his humanitarian work, do him great credit. Long may he continue to teach in Sunday School!

O, America - what a contrast with the current incumbent (or should that be encumbrance?)...

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Ohher
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Was he trying to take down the guy who seems to have more than eclipsed him in daddy's eyes? Or is he just that stupid?

Yes.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Martin60
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Ms. Clough.

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Love wins

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Hedgehog

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
All this suggests that while Jr. might have been convicted in the court of public opinion (along with everyone else associated with Trump), he's still a long way from being sent down by a real court.

Absolutely. But criminal activity isn't the significance of the event. It is a step on the road.

Take an analogy. The police suspect a group of robbing a bank. That group swears that they have had nothing whatsoever to do with that bank, much less stole anything from it. Then video evidence emerges that clearly shows one of the group entering the bank on the day of the robbery. Now defenders of the group will say, accurately, that it is no crime to enter a bank. True. But in light of the prior denials of any contact with the bank, it is suspicious and warrants further investigation. It is a step on the path.

The Trump Campaign denied that they had ANY contacts with the Russian government. Now Junior's e-mails show that they were told the Russian government wanted to help Trump win the presidency and Junior was so excited about this that he happily agreed to a meeting to get more info, bringing in other members of the campaign staff.

It may not be illegal, but it is suspicious. He walked into the bank. It warrants further investigation. If only to see what else Trump and his people have brazenly lied to the American people about.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Wow, that's quite a testimonial, Brenda.

I gather, from Wikipedia (so it must be True), that Mr. Carter's presidency was not entirely well-regarded, despite the many Good Things achieved.

Among Republicans. Because he had the audacity to be a Christian and mean it.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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jedijudy

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I remember when Jimmy Carter was president, and how pleased I was with his very obvious Christian heart. My brother, who I did not know at the time was a conspiracy theorist, insisted that Carter was the antichrist. That, along with the Republicans' rants about him puzzled me greatly. Too bad I didn't know then what I know now.

How many of these little "oops" things have to happen with the Trump guys before there is any accountability? Had President Obama done just one of these oopses, he'd have been strung up. Yeah, I'm a broken record, and a very frustrated one.

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

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Prester John
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President Carter's approval ratings over the course of his presidency. That's a lot of Republicans.
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Brenda Clough
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At this terribly late date, if Jimmy Carter is the Antichrist, he's totally missed the train. The man is in his mid-90s and frail; he becomes dehydrated and ill building houses for the homeless. How can he grind the world under his iron heel now?

(And where is that Muslim Caliphate? Obama has totally let us down, I am bitterly disappointed. He didn't even take all the guns.)

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mousethief

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
At this terribly late date, if Jimmy Carter is the Antichrist, he's totally missed the train. The man is in his mid-90s and frail; he becomes dehydrated and ill building houses for the homeless. How can he grind the world under his iron heel now?

(And where is that Muslim Caliphate? Obama has totally let us down, I am bitterly disappointed. He didn't even take all the guns.)

And the conspiracy theorists will just conveniently forget their failed conspiracies and find new ones to obsess over. And never see the disconnect.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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simontoad
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not taking the guns was a big mistake.

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Human

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Brenda Clough
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I go to the Walmart and cruise the parking lot fruitlessly, looking for those prison camps. You just cannot rely on antichrists these days.

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HCH
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"You just cannot rely on antichrists these days."

(although Trump is trying hard)

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Eutychus
From the edge
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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
"You just cannot rely on antichrists these days."

(although Trump is trying hard)

Nonsense. From a conversation about this today with a UK evangelical antichrist-obssessed acquaintance from my university days:
quote:
Trunp is pro Christian so not very likely [to be the antichrist]...
he defends Christian values, is anti abortion and anti homosexual, good guy

[brick wall]

[ 17. July 2017, 15:58: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Fëanor
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Jimmy Carter is indeed the least odious of the recent US Presidents, but please let's not forget that he helped to oversee the US providing a quarter of a billion dollars worth of military assistance to a genocidal dictator in Indonesia. Citation here

Maybe when he gets to the pearly gates, there will be a sort of mock-trial wherein the recipients of the houses he helped build act as his defense lawyers vs the 200,000 (or so) East Timorese he helped fund the extermination of.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Fëanor:
Jimmy Carter is indeed the least odious of the recent US Presidents, but please let's not forget that he helped to oversee the US providing a quarter of a billion dollars worth of military assistance to a genocidal dictator in Indonesia. Citation here

Maybe when he gets to the pearly gates, there will be a sort of mock-trial wherein the recipients of the houses he helped build act as his defense lawyers vs the 200,000 (or so) East Timorese he helped fund the extermination of.

Why are all the marginal websites done up in such contrasty themes?
Not defending Carter, but if one is going to cite information, it should more comprehensive than a collection of disembodied quotes.
East Timor from Wiki.
Carter might well have done evil here, actively or passively. But the situation appears more nuanced than "Carter exterminates".

[ 17. July 2017, 17:21: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Hedgehog

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I have always thought the conventional wisdom on Carter was accurate: He was not one of our greatest presidents. But he is one of our greatest former presidents. It is what he has done since he was no longer president that impresses, not his time in office.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Fëanor
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
<snip>
Carter might well have done evil here, actively or passively. But the situation appears more nuanced than "Carter exterminates".

For the record, your rhetorical technique of saying "well the situation is more nuanced than this bullshit quote I pulled out of thin air" sucks. Pardon me for pointing out that this guy you're thirsting to canonize has some blood on his hands.

[ 17. July 2017, 17:46: Message edited by: Fëanor ]

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Prester John
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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I have always thought the conventional wisdom on Carter was accurate: He was not one of our greatest presidents. But he is one of our greatest former presidents. It is what he has done since he was no longer president that impresses, not his time in office.

Agreed. He is proof that being a good person - which I believe he is- does not automatically provide the skills necessary to being a great leader - which I believe he was not.
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Boogie

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quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I have always thought the conventional wisdom on Carter was accurate: He was not one of our greatest presidents. But he is one of our greatest former presidents. It is what he has done since he was no longer president that impresses, not his time in office.

Agreed. He is proof that being a good person - which I believe he is- does not automatically provide the skills necessary to being a great leader - which I believe he was not.
Nor does being a foul person, as the present incumbent proves.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Fëanor:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
<snip>
Carter might well have done evil here, actively or passively. But the situation appears more nuanced than "Carter exterminates".

For the record, your rhetorical technique of saying "well the situation is more nuanced than this bullshit quote I pulled out of thin air" sucks. Pardon me for pointing out that this guy you're thirsting to canonize has some blood on his hands.
I'm not campaigning for or against Carter. All I am saying is use more complete sources.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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mousethief

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# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
"You just cannot rely on antichrists these days."

(although Trump is trying hard)

Nonsense. From a conversation about this today with a UK evangelical antichrist-obssessed acquaintance from my university days:
quote:
Trunp is pro Christian so not very likely [to be the antichrist]...
he defends Christian values, is anti abortion and anti homosexual, good guy

[brick wall]

Wolves will appear among you to deceive even the very elect, if that were possible.

Pretending to be Christian MUST BE the Antichrist's M.O. There is no way a non-Christian could fool the elect.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Brenda Clough
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This is a longish article Financial Times.
A quote:

“To be sure, every politician has some element of narcissism, but he [Trump] has perfected narcissism, he has made it the supreme element of his life, and not only that, evangelicals have responded in an almost messianic way that he is the saviour, which makes him feel really good because he does believe he is the saviour,” Flynt says. “It is kind of curious evangelicals would not be offended by this. I am as an American Christian. I’m offended because I already thought following Jesus was going to make us great again.”

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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chris stiles
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Nonsense. From a conversation about this today with a UK evangelical antichrist-obssessed acquaintance from my university days

I have a few antichrist-obsessed individuals who are acquaintances or past friends. Prior and just post the election that constituency was pushing various articles/videos/etc by (largely) Charismatic leaders pushing the 'Trump is chosen by God' line in various variations ("Trump is like Cyrus" was what they resorted to once the 'baby christian' line became worn).

So I'm not at all surprised to see your report of his reaction.

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Eutychus
From the edge
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Pretending to be Christian MUST BE the Antichrist's M.O. There is no way a non-Christian could fool the elect.

Agreed. In my more dispensationalist moments of anxiety I worry more about Macron, who is getting similar Messiah treatment, albeit from different quarters.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Dafyd
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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Pretending to be Christian MUST BE the Antichrist's M.O. There is no way a non-Christian could fool the elect.

If you assign numbers to letters you can easily get the letters Ayn Rand to add up to 666. Just saying.

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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

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stonespring
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Does anyone know if anyone in the press has done profiles of all of the Trump children, their personalities, political positions, relationships with their father and each other, etc., in particular of Donald Jr. vs. Eric vs. Ivanka? I've seen lots written about Ivanka and Jared but much less about Donald Jr. and Eric, let alone side by side comparisons of them all (and Tiffany is written about least of all, but as has been noted in this thread and elsewhere she is in the outer orbit of Trump children). Barron is too young to have much worth writing about him other than the irresponsible speculation I have seen into his mental health, so I'm not interested in any profiles of him.
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Brenda Clough
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Both bringing out the worst in, and cynically exploiting, modern evangelicalism. That's a hat trick.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5654 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Dafyd:
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Pretending to be Christian MUST BE the Antichrist's M.O. There is no way a non-Christian could fool the elect.

If you assign numbers to letters you can easily get the letters Ayn Rand to add up to 666. Just saying.
And there are some contemporary Christians who don't realize she's not a Christian.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63088 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Prester John:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
I have always thought the conventional wisdom on Carter was accurate: He was not one of our greatest presidents. But he is one of our greatest former presidents. It is what he has done since he was no longer president that impresses, not his time in office.

Agreed. He is proof that being a good person - which I believe he is- does not automatically provide the skills necessary to being a great leader - which I believe he was not.
Some of us think he was a better leader than we wanted or deserved.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 11085 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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Eutychus--

quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Nonsense. From a conversation about this today with a UK evangelical antichrist-obssessed acquaintance from my university days:
quote:
Trunp is pro Christian so not very likely [to be the antichrist]...
he defends Christian values, is anti abortion and anti homosexual, good guy

[brick wall]
Right, he defends Christian values like sexually assaulting women, voyeuristically invading the dressing rooms of young female pageant contestants, not paying his workers...

Might suggest your acquaintance reads something other than Hal Lindsey and the "Left Behind" series. Rob Bell's "Love Wins" might be a good place to start...

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17965 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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mt--

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Pretending to be Christian MUST BE the Antichrist's M.O. There is no way a non-Christian could fool the elect.

Serious, sarcastic, or mixed, please? There are grounds for each. Thx.

[ 18. July 2017, 02:11: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17965 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
mt--

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
Pretending to be Christian MUST BE the Antichrist's M.O. There is no way a non-Christian could fool the elect.

Serious, sarcastic, or mixed, please? There are grounds for each. Thx.
Quite serious, assuming that such a beast as "the Antichrist" exists, or will exist. I'm not sold on that. But given that as a presupp, the A-C will perforce have to be (or appear to be) Christian, and a very charismatic one at that.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Both bringing out the worst in, and cynically exploiting, modern evangelicalism. That's a hat trick.

Hang on, a Hat Trick is a run of three. Am I missing something. [Confused]

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Human

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Both bringing out the worst in, and cynically exploiting, modern evangelicalism. That's a hat trick.

I'm favourably impressed with how Vox has analysed the Christian community here.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I'm favourably impressed with how Vox has analysed the Christian community here.

Yes, I certainly think that that article has got a lot of things spot on - in terms of the general dynamics of the movement.

The other thing worth highlighting is the particularly conspiratorial type of mindset that generally buys into extreme end-times thinking, and again the article does well at showing how this mind-set influences the culture of the movement.

On which note, and further to the post about your anti-Christ obsessed acquaintance above I'd link here:

http://barthsnotes.com/2017/07/18/claim-donald-trump-has-secretly-arrested-3000-elite-paedophiles-and-satanists/

These are tangential figures in the scene - but they have links to the more influential, and such things tend to circulate third hand via magazines like Charisma and so on.

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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If there is an anti-Christ currently, it would be Mitch McConnell.

[ 18. July 2017, 14:01: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

Posts: 16929 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
If there is an anti-Christ currently, it would be Mitch McConnell.

Agreed, but he has done one good thing! Trump wants to end the filibuster and change Senate voting rules so that 51 votes make a majority instead of the current 60 votes.

According to The Hill, as well as other sources, McConnell slammed the door on ending the filibuster in May, saying it “will not happen.”

“There is an overwhelming majority on a bipartisan basis not interested in changing the way the Senate operates on the legislative calendar,” he said.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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Thanks be to God.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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That didn't keep him from bringing forward legislation under the reconciliation process, which only requires a simple majority.

A new thing, on the "Oops, I did it again" theme: Trump had a previously unreported hour-long meeting with Putin at the G20. I wonder what else they had to talk about, given that their earlier meeting had gone 4 times longer than planned.

Posts: 24409 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
A new thing, on the "Oops, I did it again" theme: Trump had a previously unreported hour-long meeting with Putin at the G20. I wonder what else they had to talk about, given that their earlier meeting had gone 4 times longer than planned.

Now be fair, Ruth. Since the election, it has been MUCH harder for Putin to give his little toady instructions. They needed that extra time so that Putin could make sure that Trump understood what was expected of him. And you can imagine how hard that is, Trump being Trump. I imagine several times Putin had to shout "Pay freakin' attention, you moron! What are we paying you for?!?!?!"

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

Posts: 2645 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008  |  IP: Logged
cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by RuthW:
A new thing, on the "Oops, I did it again" theme: Trump had a previously unreported hour-long meeting with Putin at the G20. I wonder what else they had to talk about, given that their earlier meeting had gone 4 times longer than planned.

Now be fair, Ruth. Since the election, it has been MUCH harder for Putin to give his little toady instructions. They needed that extra time so that Putin could make sure that Trump understood what was expected of him. And you can imagine how hard that is, Trump being Trump. I imagine several times Putin had to shout "Pay freakin' attention, you moron! What are we paying you for?!?!?!"
This is when I feel all the emojis
[Snigger] [Frown] [brick wall] [Help]

and finally [Votive]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 11085 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged



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