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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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On the subject of quotable stuff, John McCain returns to the Senate with an impassioned speech to return to following the traditions of the Senate, show a willingness to compromise and stop trying for one-party rule in all things. There are a couple of quotables in the speech, but right now my favorite is:
quote:
Stop listening to the bombastic loudmouths on the radio and television and the Internet. To hell with them. They don’t want anything done for the public good. Our incapacity is their livelihood.
Although, I have to admit that the following (a little long for a convenient sound bite) is a very close second:
quote:
This place is important. The work we do is important. Our strange rules and seemingly eccentric practices that slow our proceedings and insist on our cooperation are important. Our founders envisioned the Senate as the more deliberative, careful body that operates at a greater distance than the other body from the public passions of the hour.

We are an important check on the powers of the Executive. Our consent is necessary for the President to appoint jurists and powerful government officials and in many respects to conduct foreign policy. Whether or not we are of the same party, we are not the President’s subordinates. We are his equal!



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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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And yet he's voted for a bill with no detail and no real discussion. Seems like a contradiction.

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arse

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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Not to mention rubber-stamping presidential appointees with even fewer qualifications for their jobs than the present occupant of the White House.

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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Ohher
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# 18607

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
And yet he's voted for a bill with no detail and no real discussion. Seems like a contradiction.

It was a procedural vote to allow the bill to be debated. No action on the actual health care bill yet; just debate. And McCain has said he will NOT vote for anything that looks like the current Senate version.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
And yet he's voted for a bill with no detail and no real discussion. Seems like a contradiction.

No. He voted to consider the bill. As you no doubt read in his talk, he expressly states that he will not vote for the bill itself as it now stands. Or, to quote him:
quote:
I voted for the motion to proceed to allow debate to continue and amendments to be offered. I will not vote for the bill as it is today. It’s a shell of a bill right now. We all know that. I have changes urged by my state’s governor that will have to be included to earn my support for final passage of any bill. I know many of you will have to see the bill changed substantially for you to support it.
In short, he did not vote "for" the bill--he voted to allow the bill to be debated. As it should be.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
Not to mention rubber-stamping presidential appointees with even fewer qualifications for their jobs than the present occupant of the White House.

And he seems to regret that:
quote:
Our deliberations today – not just our debates, but the exercise of all our responsibilities – authorizing government policies, appropriating the funds to implement them, exercising our advice and consent role – are often lively and interesting. They can be sincere and principled. But they are more partisan, more tribal more of the time than any other time I remember. Our deliberations can still be important and useful, but I think we’d all agree they haven’t been overburdened by greatness lately. And right now they aren’t producing much for the American people.

Both sides have let this happen. Let’s leave the history of who shot first to the historians. I suspect they’ll find we all conspired in our decline – either by deliberate actions or neglect. We’ve all played some role in it. Certainly I have. Sometimes, I’ve let my passion rule my reason. Sometimes, I made it harder to find common ground because of something harsh I said to a colleague. Sometimes, I wanted to win more for the sake of winning than to achieve a contested policy.

We have been waiting for our elected officials to wake up. McCain seems to have awoken. At this point, criticizing that he was asleep before is pointless. Would you rather he stayed asleep, stayed a mindless sheep rubberstamping the President? If not, then applaud his current course.

[ 25. July 2017, 22:34: Message edited by: Hedgehog ]

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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I'll applaud him once I see that he's putting his vote where his mouth is. It won't be the first time one of our illustrious senators has said "Yes yes yes" but pulled the "no" lever at the voting table.

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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This link should work: a graphic representation of John McCain's courage and integrity. Free and SFW. I am so glad I voted correctly in 2008.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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simontoad
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# 18096

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I like McCain, and I liked that speech. I think he does good work behind the scenes. I think he's a voice of moderation in the Republican party.

I was watching PBS Newshour this morning. They reported a whisper that the Secretary of State is getting itchy feet. I wonder if Mitt Romney will accept another dinner invitation from Trump?

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Human

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
I'll applaud him once I see that he's putting his vote where his mouth is. It won't be the first time one of our illustrious senators has said "Yes yes yes" but pulled the "no" lever at the voting table.

In a later vote, McCain voted "yes" on a procedural motion that would effectively have allowed the BCRA to move forward in its current form. The procedural vote was defeated, thus AIUI opening the way for a much broader debate.

To this outsider, McCain's vote seems to go right against what he had said hours earlier.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Fuck John McCain. He waxed poetic about "the injustice and cruelties inflicted by autocratic governments" and then turned right around and voted in favor of the Senate plan with Cruz's and Portman's amendments. It would have rolled back Medicaid expansion, reduced subsidies in the exchanges, allowed insurance companies to offer super shitty health insurance plans like they used to (affordable but worthless if you really needed care), and eliminated the mandates to buy health insurance. 9 other Republicans did vote against this turd of a bill, so they'll move on to the "repeal and delay" vote tomorrow morning. McCain got his health care at the Mayo Clinic, but the less fortunate can go sit and spin for all he cares.
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Eutychus
From the edge
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I did a bit of reading around and found this on McCain from 2008.

My insight is that one reason for the high proportion of evangelical christians that voted for these guys is that a) unlike those they voted for, many are themselves fundamentally honest and decent, coupled with b) have been brought up to respect those in authority almost unconditionally. Coupled in the case of Trump with c) an innate distrust of "worldly" media.

The idea of there being such a disconnect between the narrative spun by a politician like McCain and his actual behaviour is simply right outside their frame of reckoning.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This link should work: a graphic representation of John McCain's courage and integrity. Free and SFW. I am so glad I voted correctly in 2008.

I love the graphic.

I'm also glad I voted correctly every time he has run for Senator, as well as when he ran for President.
[Biased]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Your politics is all emotion isn't it?

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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MaryLouise
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# 18697

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So President Trump has just announced he will not allow transgender individuals to serve in the US military in any capacity.

What about all the trans people already serving? Will they be fired or given dishonourable discharges or what? I suppose their participation and service will simply be erased from the records.

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“As regards plots I find real life no help at all. Real life seems to have no plots.”

-- Ivy Compton-Burnett

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
So President Trump has just announced he will not allow transgender individuals to serve in the US military in any capacity.

What about all the trans people already serving? Will they be fired or given dishonourable discharges or what? I suppose their participation and service will simply be erased from the records.

Like a lot of Trump policies, this seems to be trying to take credit for policies already in place. From a RAND Corporation study on lifting the ban on transgender individuals to serve openly in the U.S. military [PDF]:

quote:
U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) policies have rendered both the physical and psychological aspects of “transgender conditions” as disqualifying conditions for accession and allow for the administrative discharge of service members who fall into these categories.
RAND goes on to conclude that the additional expense of allowing transgender service members to serve openly is fairly minimal. A summary of their report can be found here, for those who lack the spare time to slog through over 100 pages of dense report.

Of course, this could be prelude to Trump stepping up enforcement of the existing ban. I can think of few things more likely to negatively impact morale than that kind of witch hunt (to borrow a Trumpian phrase).

[ 26. July 2017, 15:05: Message edited by: Crœsos ]

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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In the Obama era, the Secretary of Defense issued orders to start preparations to allow transgender people to serve in the military.

Trump is saying that he's stopping that process.

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MaryLouise
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# 18697

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I hear what you're saying, but Joshua Block (@JoshACLU), an ACLU attorney, on Twitter posted this: 'If you are a trans service member or reservist please contact me. If you know a trans service member or reservist tell them to contact me.'

So that process initiated under Obama must be fairly well along and being implemented.

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“As regards plots I find real life no help at all. Real life seems to have no plots.”

-- Ivy Compton-Burnett

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
So President Trump has just announced he will not allow transgender individuals to serve in the US military in any capacity.

I suspect this is partly about political positioning, and there appears to be indications from some quarters that this is the case:

http://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/890202683721863168

Or at least the rest of the right wing are content to have it function that way.

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Yes, it's another bone he's throwing to those people who believe that this is a Christian nation. It is proven to be nothing of the sort.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Is Ozymandias ever going to do anything positive, worthwhile, and helpful to other people?

Apart from resign or die, of course.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Stetson
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# 9597

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Even more ironic than rain on your wedding day...

US embassy in South Korea displays rainbow flag of gay pride

That's from not even two weeks ago. Maybe this will prompt Trump to actually start filling some positions in the State Department?

[ 26. July 2017, 17:56: Message edited by: Stetson ]

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Is Ozymandias ever going to do anything positive, worthwhile, and helpful to other people?

Apart from resign or die, of course.

IJ

[cudgeling brains]
Well, they did manage to organize and stage the White House Easter Egg Roll. And it went well, no tweets or gropes at all!

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
# 6645

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Anybody else wondering if Trump is throwing fuel on the culture war fire to distract people from something?

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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Probably. But the scrabbling and futility of it is noticeable. You can distract the public for a little while until the next thing comes along (Dr. Who! Brad Pitt! Princess Diana!). But there are forces that cannot be diverted; the independent counsel's investigation of the Russian collusion business is a prime example. I am certain that Crooked Don would give anything to make that all go away.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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saysay

Ship's Praying Mantis
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I was thinking more in terms of things that may still be underground that aren't necessarily being investigated because the fourth estate is so predictable... But I guess we'll see.

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"It's been a long day without you, my friend
I'll tell you all about it when I see you again"
"'Oh sweet baby purple Jesus' - that's a direct quote from a 9 year old - shoutout to purple Jesus."

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
To this outsider, McCain's vote seems to go right against what he had said hours earlier.

In his speech, McCain suggested the bill should return to regular order, i.e. be discussed in committee etc. before being put to the vote.

A Democrat put a motion to that effect - and McCain, along with all the other GOP senators, has voted no.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by saysay:
Anybody else wondering if Trump is throwing fuel on the culture war fire to distract people from something?

Someone, on this thread I think, suggested it is a play to hamper the Democrats in the mid-term election.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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That's certainly the next big thing, the mid terms.

Personally, I think that there are enough Journos and late night hosts to pre-digest everything that Trump cares to throw at us. I don't think coverage of his stupidity will prevent people from covering his lies, corruption and incompetence.

But I'm an optimist.

That said, I find myself less and less drawn to late night shows on you-tube. Maybe I'm finally becoming an adult...

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Human

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by MaryLouise:
So President Trump has just announced he will not allow transgender individuals to serve in the US military in any capacity.

I suspect this is partly about political positioning, and there appears to be indications from some quarters that this is the case:

http://twitter.com/jonathanvswan/status/890202683721863168

Or at least the rest of the right wing are content to have it function that way.

Yes. To saysay's point, this is ALL about distracting us from the Russian investigation that's getting very very close to home. Events Monday looked very much like some members of Trump's inner circle are about to turn State's evidence. Then we get the BSA speech-- distraction. Then yesterday we get the tweeted bombshell transgender order.

As if that wasn't horrible enough, we also yesterday had this particularly nasty bit of business:
Trump goes postal on undocumented immigrants

I live in a border town and sanctuary city with a large number of gangs and a large number of undocumented persons. Yes, our gangs are a serious and sometimes deadly problem. But what Trump is describing here is not at all what we're experiencing-- rather, it strikes me as gore porn not far removed from snuff films.

More to the point, the immigrants that have been deported here in LA are not M13 members, but rather pastors and teachers, students, and housewives, mothers and fathers who have lived here peacefully for decades. This latest amplification has me particularly frightened. I can't see how this can possibly end well.

I'm married to a Canadian citizen, so unlike most of those targeted by Trump, have an accessible path out of Trumpland. What would be involved in re-establishing the Underground Railroad?

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I'm married to a Canadian citizen, so unlike most of those targeted by Trump, have an accessible path out of Trumpland. What would be involved in re-establishing the Underground Railroad?

A stable of hot red-blooded Canadians willing to take on mates? You're setting Miss Amanda's petticoats aflutter!

Seriously, though, I wish the news media would stop calling him President Trump. If they all took to calling him simply Donald Trump, maybe my stomach wouldn't turn so much whenever I hear his name.

I still have to press the mute button every time he is shown opening his mouth.

The breaking point has to come soon. Dear God, hear the prayers of your people.

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
More to the point, the immigrants that have been deported here in LA are not M13 members, but rather pastors and teachers, students, and housewives, mothers and fathers who have lived here peacefully for decades. This latest amplification has me particularly frightened. I can't see how this can possibly end well.

[Votive]

This is completely outside my experience, living with such uncertainty. It's hard even to imagine. I know that the USA has been struggling with undocumented immigrants for decades now. Previous discussions I recall have talked about pathways to citizenship. Its amazing that things have come to this essentially throw your hands up approach.

I feel very sorry for everyone uprooted in this way.

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Human

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
Even more ironic than rain on your wedding day...

US embassy in South Korea displays rainbow flag of gay pride

That's from not even two weeks ago. Maybe this will prompt Trump to actually start filling some positions in the State Department?

Perhaps, though the lack of a U.S. ambassador to South Korea at the moment (Trump hasn't even nominated one) is probably important for other reasons as well. Other potentially important countries without a current U.S. ambassador include France, Germany, and Saudi Arabia. You'll be relieved to know, however, that the U.S. does have (pending Senate approval) an ambassador to someplace called Religious Freedom.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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Zoroastrians and Wiccans and Sharia advocates rejoice!

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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From the POST:
'During a rally in Youngstown, Ohio, on Tuesday, President Trump dismissed critiques about his behavior by declaring himself the most “presidential president” of all presidents except for Abraham Lincoln.'

A more deep analysis of Li'l Donny's pathology. The one upside of this entire mess is that novelists will have situations and characters to use for the next century.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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I thought his hard-on was for Andrew Jackson?

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28

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Don't sweat it. Next week it'll probably be someone else. [Roll Eyes]

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Penny S
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# 14768

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That speech sounds as if he is modelling himself on Duterte.
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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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Any bets on just how long it will take for him to issue an Executive Order to have his own face put on Mt. Rushmore? "Get rid of that Washington guy! Time to drain the swamp! Put my face first! It is so ordered!"

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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quote:
Originally posted by Penny S:
That speech sounds as if he is modelling himself on Duterte.

He wouldn't be the first. Joko Widodo, Indonesia's President has recently authorised the use of lethal force against 'drug dealers' who 'resist arrest'.

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Human

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John Holding

Coffee and Cognac
# 158

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He's not modelling himself on anyone, IMO. He's under the delusion that the president of the US is an absolute monarch, like Louis XIV. I thought you people had a revolution about something like that (not that George III thought himself an absolute monarch at all, but your polemicists seemed to think he did).

John

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Anglican_Brat
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# 12349

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quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
He's not modelling himself on anyone, IMO. He's under the delusion that the president of the US is an absolute monarch, like Louis XIV. I thought you people had a revolution about something like that (not that George III thought himself an absolute monarch at all, but your polemicists seemed to think he did).

John

I'm wondering if there was an English monarch that came close to his incompetence? King John? Edward II?

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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The Washington POST's Opinion page at this moment includes these headlines:
Say Hello to a Post-America World
Anthony Scaramucci's Vulgar New Yorker Interview Is Beyond Words
The Worst is Yet to Come
It's Time to Start Thinking the Unthinkable
The President Can Be Indicted, Just Not By Mueller
Trump Should Fire Scaramucci But He Won't

Of course the Opinion page is a bubble of its own, but I do see a hardening of feeling. (MY favorite: Get Ready, Stephen Colbert is Making An Animated Comedy About the Trumps)

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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White House comms director Scaramucci: 'I'm not Steve Bannon, I'm not trying to suck my own cock'. -Scaramucci.

You can click further to the New Yorker from what I linked to see what else this paranoid maniac the head paranoid maniac appointed as his communications director said besides "fuck". More than a little projection going on. This disintegration of your governance and country is all in prime time.

Outstanding. Pussy grabbing. Cock sucking. What's next? In any decent banana republic your CIA would have assassinated and arranged a revolution by now. [Killing me]

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
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Ohher
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# 18607

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The skinny repeal bill has been narrowly defeated.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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Thanks to John McCain. I'm so happy to have been so wrong.
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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One theory is that McCain took the bullet to allow of bunch of Rep senators to vote yes so as to escape them being primaried. And/or the GOP leadership realised there was no way they could effectively repeal/replace the bill right now so having painted themselves into a corner, they needed a sacrificial lamb.

Such explanations of McCain's vote certainly make more sense to me in the light of his voting record of "party first" and what I've learned about the guy in recent days; I therefore suspect as much political calculation as deeply-held principle.

His statement still claims Obamacare was "rammed through".

Whatever the truth of his motives, I guess the outcome is the same for now though.

[ETA and RuthW how could you possibly omit the continued resistance, in the face of threats, of two courageous female GOP senators throughout this entire process? Or the grassroots campaigning by Indivisible et al?]

[ 28. July 2017, 07:24: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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MaryLouise
Shipmate
# 18697

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One of those rare moments of sheer relief to hear that the skinny repeal bill has been defeated.

And, in other news, I wonder if Scaramucci has realised it might not be the smartest idea for a new WH communications director to shove an eensy bit too much cocaine up your nose before calling a reporter on the New Yorker and speaking your mind, obscenities included?

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“As regards plots I find real life no help at all. Real life seems to have no plots.”

-- Ivy Compton-Burnett

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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quote:
Originally posted by Anglican_Brat:
quote:
Originally posted by John Holding:
He's not modelling himself on anyone, IMO. He's under the delusion that the president of the US is an absolute monarch, like Louis XIV. I thought you people had a revolution about something like that (not that George III thought himself an absolute monarch at all, but your polemicists seemed to think he did).

John

I'm wondering if there was an English monarch that came close to his incompetence? King John? Edward II?
I think there was someone back before the conquest, in the time of St Dunstan, who had to drag the guy out of bed to get to the coronation - he was in bed with his girlfriend and her mother.
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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The damage these people are doing to their office is unbelievable. I feel like sending the transcript of the Scaramucci interview to some of my acquaintances who are US evangelical GOP faithful and inviting them to respond.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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