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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
Leorning Cniht
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# 17564

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:

What shocked me a bit was finding out today is that Spicer is a fellow at Harvard. Seriously? Seriously!

"Fellow" in this context doesn't mean much. It means he is going to lead a non-credit study group or something this semester. A whole bunch of C-list political hacks have made the list. Until the press found out, Chelsea Manning was also on the list.
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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
What shocked me a bit was finding out today is that Spicer is a fellow at Harvard. Seriously? Seriously!

"Fellow" in this context doesn't mean much. It means he is going to lead a non-credit study group or something this semester. A whole bunch of C-list political hacks have made the list. Until the press found out, Chelsea Manning was also on the list.
As near as we can tell it wasn't "the press" that was the problem but objections from various ex-CIA officials associated with the same Harvard program. These include torture advocate Mike Morell and Mike Pompeo, who certainly has the high ground to complain about people who pass information to Wikileaks. [Roll Eyes]

Spicer is mostly known as a bald-faced liar who's more notorious than others because he was the public face of a blatantly truth-averse administration. His rehabilitation as a punchline bothers me a lot less than the rehabilitation of people like Mike Morell.

At the very least this should put to rest the idea that elite Ivy League schools are liberal bastions where conservatives have to keep their heads low, though needless to say it probably won't.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Bishops Finger
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Any thoughts, comments, reactions etc. from across the pond on the Lord of Fire and Fury's address to the UN?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41324970

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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cliffdweller
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I think when a natl leader speaks to the intl community the citizens of that nation should be allowed to tweet their own commentary to appear simultaneously on a screen behind the speaker. Today you would have seen 65 million eye rolls, face palms, head bangs and the words "we know! We're doing everything we can! Bear with us please! Your prayers are appreciated"

[ 19. September 2017, 19:48: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Hedgehog

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I think Trump showed great restraint: I was fully expecting him to take off his shoe and pound the podium with it. One of Trump's heroes did something like that.

And, of course, the saving grace of the speech is that it came out of Trump's mouth and, so, is presumptively a lie. The odds favor that. Particularly the parts of the speech that included his favorite phrase ("Believe me") which always comes immediately after he has made a proposition that no intelligent person should ever believe.

From the BBC:
quote:
According to Reuters news agency, when Mr Trump made his remarks about destroying North Korea, one man in the audience covered his face with his hands...
Does Reuters not know Rex Tillerson when they see him? [Devil]

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Hedgehog

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# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
From the BBC:
quote:
According to Reuters news agency, when Mr Trump made his remarks about destroying North Korea, one man in the audience covered his face with his hands...
Does Reuters not know Rex Tillerson when they see him? [Devil]
For an offhand joke, I was closer than I thought. It was actually Chief of Staff John Kelly!

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Soror Magna
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I'm sure Kim and I are not the only people who know that the only way any country can protect its sovereignty from the USA, PRC or Russia is to have a nuke. All Trump accomplished with his gumflaps was give North Korea and Iran more good reasons to have a nuclear program.

Oh, and the speech was crap. Write-by-numbers crap: "Things are bad, but they could be good. They could be good, but bad stuff is happening. America great. World mean to America. America tough. World be nice to America or else." Childish insults. "Loser". "Rocket Man". Who writes this shit?

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

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Golden Key
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I figure the bits that sound like quotes from himself ("Rocketman"*, "loser terrorists", etc.) are ones he either insisted on or adlibbed. (And saying "the Brits", when he used the formal/proper names of other countries?)

*Thought: Perhaps we could nudge Pres. Kim into playing nicely if we make him listen to William Shatner's long-ago recording of "Rocket Man" non-stop? It's truly awful.
[Eek!]

[ 20. September 2017, 03:21: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
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That came up on my facefacts feed yesterday. I didn't turn the sound on [Smile]

On the meme thing, that's Trump playing to his base. It helps him with 'his people' if decent people criticise him doing it. For what it's worth, I don't find the meme particularly offensive, although it is open to an anti-women reading. I do find the President of the United States retweeting it worrying, or I would if he hadn't done stuff like this many times before. Sad. How long has it been? I thought this is what superpacs are for - disseminating unsavory material that might damage your reputation.

Its the same with rocket man. It's OK as an off-the-cuff remark, but in a speech to the UN it is just inappropriate, to say nothing of using that platform to threaten to destroy another member state. I suppose that has been done before, but I don't think an American President has done it.

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I dish it out, but I can't take it.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Another thing about the speech that bothered me:

ISTM that T was, at the very least, prepping everyone for small wars all over the place--and, possibly, WWIII.

[Paranoid] [Votive]


And then there are his comments on socialism, when there are friendly socialist countries (Scandinavia) right there. Which were mostly met with dead silence.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
quote:
Originally posted by Hedgehog:
From the BBC:
quote:

According to Reuters news agency, when Mr Trump made his remarks about destroying North Korea, one man in the audience covered his face with his hands...

Does Reuters not know Rex Tillerson when they see him? [Devil]
For an offhand joke, I was closer than I thought. It was actually Chief of Staff John Kelly!
Obviously. If Rex Tillerson cared about diplomatic solutions to current crises the U.S. would actually have an Assistant Secretary of State for East Asia.

quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
I'm sure Kim and I are not the only people who know that the only way any country can protect its sovereignty from the USA, PRC or Russia is to have a nuke. All Trump accomplished with his gumflaps was give North Korea and Iran more good reasons to have a nuclear program.

Essentially, but it goes a bit further than that. As near as anyone can tell, Iran has scrupulously honored the terms of the JCPOA. An American withdrawal from this multi-party agreement would tell everyone else in the world that there's no point in negotiating with the United States since the U.S. won't feel bound by any agreement reached. In the immediate term it's a signal to North Korea that the U.S. is not a trustworthy counterparty to negotiate with.

quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
Oh, and the speech was crap. Write-by-numbers crap: "Things are bad, but they could be good. They could be good, but bad stuff is happening. America great. World mean to America. America tough. World be nice to America or else." Childish insults. "Loser". "Rocket Man". Who writes this shit?

Most likely Stephen Miller. I suspect Trump was given a speech prepared jointly by various agencies, which he then handed over to Miller with the instructions "MAGA it up!".

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

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HCH
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By my count, the U.S. has had eleven presidents in a row before Trump who faced crises and did not actually use any nuclear bombs to fight a war. (I wonder if Trump could name all eleven, in order.)

Do we have any official reaction yet from South Korea (or Japan, or China, or Russia) about Trump's overt threat to make war on their neighbor?

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
(I wonder if Trump could name all eleven, in order.)

Obama, Bush, Hillary, Not Trump, Reagan, Not Trump, Not Trump, Not Trump and Lincoln, Jackson and Washington.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:

Do we have any official reaction yet from South Korea (or Japan, or China, or Russia) about Trump's overt threat to make war on their neighbor?

I recognize that TDS is endemic on the ship, but could you link to that "overt threat to make war" for me? I missed it.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:


Do we have any official reaction yet from South Korea (or Japan, or China, or Russia) about Trump's overt threat to make war on their neighbor?

Shuddering? Hiding under the bed? Stockpiling duct tape and plastic sheeting? Booking a flight to some remote location?

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:

Do we have any official reaction yet from South Korea (or Japan, or China, or Russia) about Trump's overt threat to make war on their neighbor?

I recognize that TDS is endemic on the ship, but could you link to that "overt threat to make war" for me? I missed it.
I would say threatening to
"totally destroy North Korea" qualifies.

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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From Conan O'Brian: "The wife of Donald Trump's ethics advisor was caught having sex in a car with a prison inmate. Can you believe that? Donald Trump has an ethics advisor!"(True! Reported in the Miami Herald.)

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Eirenist
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# 13343

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Can any shipmate explain how The Big T could 'totally destroy' North Korea without also obliterating his notional ally, South Korea?

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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'

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RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
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Nope!
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quetzalcoatl
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quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Can any shipmate explain how The Big T could 'totally destroy' North Korea without also obliterating his notional ally, South Korea?

There is supposed to be some secret plan that would enable an attack on NK, while preventing NK from then attacking SK. Whether this plan is viable or fantasy, is unknown,but it sounds like a huge gamble.

One problem is, that Trump is crying wolf. He keeps using very violent language, so does he then back it up, and risk all-out war in Korea? Surely, he's not that crazy.

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no path

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Can any shipmate explain how The Big T could 'totally destroy' North Korea without also obliterating his notional ally, South Korea?

Making sure South Korea is not obliterated is something Trump neither promised nor mentioned. In fact the phrase "South Korea" appears nowhere in the (unofficial) transcript of the speech.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:

Do we have any official reaction yet from South Korea (or Japan, or China, or Russia) about Trump's overt threat to make war on their neighbor?

I recognize that TDS is endemic on the ship, but could you link to that "overt threat to make war" for me? I missed it.
I would say threatening to
"totally destroy North Korea" qualifies.

Ahh, I see it now. All I needed to do was isolate 4 words from the context of the 30 word sentence in which they were uttered and voila! Overt threat to make war!

Thanks!

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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Bishops Finger
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Presumably this is the sentence referred to:

"The United States has great strength and patience, but if it is forced to defend itself or its allies, we will have no choice but to totally destroy North Korea."

Yes, the threat is qualified, but it's a threat nonetheless.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Crœsos
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Followed by "Rocket Man is on a suicide mission for himself and for his regime", making the threat that much more explicit (and possibly violating Elton John's copyright).

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Not that The Orange Pharaoh would worry too much about upsetting Elton John, given that EJ is one of those Horrible Gayz (and has a much better hair-do...).

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Crœsos
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# 238

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Sometimes I think they're deliberately trolling the world.

September 19, 2017: Donald Trump addresses the United Nations and threatens to exterminate 25 million people unless his demands are met.

September 20, 2017: Melania Trump condemns bullying in United Nations speech.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
September 20, 2017: Melania Trump condemns bullying in United Nations speech.

[tangent] I know her clothing is irrelevant, but she was supposedly wearing a $3,000 dress -- it looks as if someone blew a YUGE bubble of bubble gum, especially when she's standing behind the podium. [/tangent]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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One can only imagine the pillow talk at the trumpy house.
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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Vicente Fox running for USA president in 2020 (former president of Mexico). A youtube worth sharing. Profane but less than the person he's mocking. "Always ask before grabbing a pussy".

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Sometimes I think they're deliberately trolling the world.

September 19, 2017: Donald Trump addresses the United Nations and threatens to exterminate 25 million people unless his demands are met.

September 20, 2017: Melania Trump condemns bullying in United Nations speech.

Actually, I think maybe Melania is finding her public voice.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17732 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Vicente Fox running for USA president in 2020 (former president of Mexico). A youtube worth sharing. Profane but less than the person he's mocking. "Always ask before grabbing a pussy".

[Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Ohher
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# 18607

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Actually, I think maybe Melania is finding her public voice.

You mean, as opposed to Michelle Obama's?

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Vicente Fox running for USA president in 2020 (former president of Mexico). A youtube worth sharing. Profane but less than the person he's mocking. "Always ask before grabbing a pussy".

[Killing me] [Killing me] [Killing me]
Wot Pigwidgeon sez. [Big Grin]

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Can any shipmate explain how The Big T could 'totally destroy' North Korea without also obliterating his notional ally, South Korea?

There is supposed to be some secret plan that would enable an attack on NK, while preventing NK from then attacking SK. Whether this plan is viable or fantasy, is unknown,but it sounds like a huge gamble.

One problem is, that Trump is crying wolf. He keeps using very violent language, so does he then back it up, and risk all-out war in Korea? Surely, he's not that crazy.

Where you’re going wrong is in assuming that El Presidente thinks. I think he simply cannot understand why what he’s doing is so dangerous. Before his election he reportedly asked more than once, “Why can’t we use nukes?”

Meet a very defective human being, ladies and gentlemen.

This is a man with a highly limited imagination and no capacity whatsoever for empathy. He is just incapable of grasping the stakes involved. He has no apparatus for understanding the human suffering he would unleash, and if he did, he probably wouldn’t care. What matters is that America (U-S-A! U-S-A!) made the biggest kaboom evaaaaar (incidentally, this from a man who actually in real life genuinely though the size of his appendages was an appropriate topic for a presidential debate) and yeah a few people got obliterated but they were only yellow foreign people so what's the big deal already?

Also, as a professional bullshitter, I don’t think he’s prepared for the idea that his words have consequences. He says them, he forgets about them. What’s the big deal?

All of this is why in a nutshell he is not a fit and proper person to be President of the United States of America.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Eirenist
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# 13343

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He seems determined to start a war with someone, anyone, be it North Korea or Iran (but not Russia or China,it seems for the moment). Is he looking for a 'Falklands effect'?

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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'

Posts: 422 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
L'organist
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# 17338

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Question: Does The Donald actually know where North Korea is? Could he find it on a map or globe?

From his comments I get the impression he thinks PRK is an island which he can "destroy" without any collateral damage.

Deeply worrying.

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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This just in – North Korea (North! Korea!) is sounding reasonable compared to Donald Trump. That’s right. The biggest basket case in the planet is apparently writing off all his bloviating as a “barking dog”.

I particularly like the comment from Kim Jong Un’s spokesman that he “feels sorry for [Trump’s] aides”.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Jane R
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# 331

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You couldn't make it up, could you... nobody would believe it.

Still, we mustn't laugh too loudly - tomorrow our own Glorious Leader is due to make that big important speech in Florence... [Roll Eyes]

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MaryLouise
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# 18697

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More surreal.

Trump had lunch with African leaders. He talked of an imaginary country called 'Nambia' (a mix perhaps between Zambia and Namibia)and said this: "Africa has tremendous business potential. I have so many friends going to your countries trying to get rich."

Somewhere in the tiny country of Africa

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“As regards plots I find real life no help at all. Real life seems to have no plots.”

-- Ivy Compton-Burnett

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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He's thick as a plank [Roll Eyes]

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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As Mary Louise has indicated, Trump would fail Grade 8 geography. What is shocking is not just the depth of ignorance, but also how spectacularly tone deaf Trump is. Does no one check his copy? I'm all for commercial development of Africa, for the benefit of Africans, but does it get more arrogantly neo-colonialist than "Azania* will make my friends rich!"

*Reference to Evelyn Waugh

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Sometimes I think they're deliberately trolling the world.

September 19, 2017: Donald Trump addresses the United Nations and threatens to exterminate 25 million people unless his demands are met.

September 20, 2017: Melania Trump condemns bullying in United Nations speech.

Actually, I think maybe Melania is finding her public voice.
But in a uniquely obtuse way. But it's not "finding"-- this exact scenario has been repeated several times-- both with Melania and with Ivanka.

That seems to be the Trump pattern. The Trump boys (because they certainly aren't men) verbalize in short, unfiltered, sometimes incomprehensible but never guarded, frequently offensive and almost always rash, words. The Trump women say very little publicly, but when they do it frequently seems at odds with what the men have said, but never explicitly so. Same with their facial expressions-- whatever the boys are feeling is written on their faces (frequently anger, petulance of bewilderment)-- the women, whether thru botox or deliberate choice, are coolly expressionless, giving away none of whatever they are thinking or feeling.

Which always leaves me wondering about both Ivanka and Melania when they come out with these cryptic, obtuse utterings so at odds with Donald's statements: are they just so isolated and unreflective (as Ivanka's recent book would suggest) that they just don't recognize the disconnect? Are these statements/tweets/speeches written by someone else, possibly even for some other occasion, either through hire or thru creative "borrowing" (e.g. past use of Michelle Obama's work), and they're just unreflectively reading lines as an actress would? Or are these statements really "silent screams"-- cries for help, subversive red flags being raised by women held hostage by their fear/prenups and unable to speak more directly/explicitly?

Definitely the Trump women are far more intriguing than the boys.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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MaryLouise
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# 18697

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Yes, what Pangolin Guerre said.

I wonder though if he was thinking about people like his sons being allowed to commercialise lucrative canned slaughter safaris in Zimbabwe.

Please don't click on the link if you are distressed by seeing beautiful and endangered wild animals needlessly killed by trophy-hunting Trumps.

Look, Daddy!

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“As regards plots I find real life no help at all. Real life seems to have no plots.”

-- Ivy Compton-Burnett

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

From his comments I get the impression he thinks PRK is an island which he can "destroy" without any collateral damage.

Honestly, without snark and outside of hostility, he doesn't think things that far through.
The shallowest of comments here represent a much greater thought process than Trump evinces on most of his comments.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:

From his comments I get the impression he thinks PRK is an island which he can "destroy" without any collateral damage.

Honestly, without snark and outside of hostility, he doesn't think things that far through.
The shallowest of comments here represent a much greater thought process than Trump evinces on most of his comments.

This.

His interests are immediate, and personal. He wants to appear tough and strong, so he makes a loud, bullying threat-- and unfortunately we've given him the weaponry to make and act upon loud, bullying threats. There is no grand plan, there is no great strategy, to this. There is just the immediate personal gratification of feeling like the Biggest Dog with the Loudest Bark on the block.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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So far, the USA's allies seem to be saying that Iran is compliant, so what gives? I reckon they know something Trump doesn't want to hear.

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I dish it out, but I can't take it.

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
So far, the USA's allies seem to be saying that Iran is compliant, so what gives? I reckon they know something Trump doesn't want to hear.

It doesn't fit the conservative narrative. Muslims are the boogie man and Iran is a Muslim nation without direct financial ties to the US.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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/slight tangent/

The poor lass can't help her name, but I always read Melania as Melancholia or Melanoma.

(BTW, was she, in fact, named after a country in Africa? [Devil] ).

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
So far, the USA's allies seem to be saying that Iran is compliant, so what gives? I reckon they know something Trump doesn't want to hear.

It doesn't fit the conservative narrative. Muslims are the boogie man and Iran is a Muslim nation without direct financial ties to the US.
And the deal was put in place under Obama. That is enough for Trump to want to torpedo it, no matter what.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Eirenist
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# 13343

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The London Times reports that the US anti-missile weapons are not, in fact, 100% effective under operational conditions against long- or intermediate-range rockets.

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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'

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