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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
Golden Key
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# 1468

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More "fun".
[Roll Eyes]

“I Hate Everyone in the White House!”: Trump Seethes as Advisers Fear the President Is “Unraveling” (Vanity Fair).

quote:
In recent days, I’ve spoken with a half dozen prominent Republicans and Trump advisers, and they all describe a White House in crisis as advisers struggle to contain a president that seems to be increasingly unfocused and consumed by dark moods."

"Trump Threatens to Pull NBC Off the Air Over Scathing Story": Luckily, he doesn’t have the power to do anything about it." (Vanity Fair).

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18177 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Chill. I said MLK would have been on the Ashley Madison site.

You began the post speaking of sexual predators and narcissism. Bring MLK into that same post is ludicrous.

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
given long-running and exacerbated racial tensions and injustice in the US, and all the people who deeply revere Dr. King, it's usually extremely unwise to criticize him.

Anyone is fair game for criticism that is apropos. A problem is that there is much lying and misrepresentation. And irrelevance.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
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lB--

I was saying what I've observed in my American culture, over many years, when people talk about Dr. King.

Making the comment he did, in the way that he did, and saying "chill" when Americans reacted negatively, IMHO, showed that simontoad didn't get it, didn't care, or wasn't paying attention.

So I used it as an opportunity for education. [Biased]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Gramps49
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I am thinking the sexual allegations against Weinstein, and, now, Ben Affleck are getting as much press as they are because the Groper in Chief has seemingly gotten away with it. I actually hope the special investigator will look at the sexual allegations against the Don.
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Eirenist
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Could there be any connection between El Supremo's revamped visit to London and the announcement that H.M. is cutting back on her royal duties?

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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
I am thinking the sexual allegations against Weinstein, and, now, Ben Affleck are getting as much press as they are because the Groper in Chief has seemingly gotten away with it. I actually hope the special investigator will look at the sexual allegations against the Don.

I am not defending Affleck, but it seems to me that the things has admitted to doing are on a different level to those being currently aired about others.

And this is part of the problem - how the conversation rolls everything into the same "he did x? well, this-other-guy did y and I didn't hear you talking about it.."

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arse

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Brenda Clough
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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
He's coming. Please feel free to do something about this. He loathes crowds holding protest signs and wearing pink hats.

Will he get to ride in a golden carriage?
If I were HM I would fall canny sick, in the grand Elizabethan style. Failing that, carry the -big- handbag. Hold it front and center, always. And is there any point in having Coldstream Guards if you can't get any use out of them? A couple of big ones, in their bearskin busbys, holding bayonets at the ready, would do.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Gwai
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Golden Key, if that first Vanity Fair article is true, it explains a lot of the cabinet shuffling--trying to get rid of the people who would 25th him while not shuffling so much that he can't pretend he's running the country--I can't tell whether it's just liberal hope/worry though.

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A master of men was the Goodly Fere,
A mate of the wind and sea.
If they think they ha’ slain our Goodly Fere
They are fools eternally.


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Bishops Finger
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It seems unfair to our dear Queen to foist The Deranged Dotard on her, though a 'working visit' may reduce her ordeal to a minimum.

Perhaps by the time a full state visit comes round, she'll have abdicated, or TDD will have been impeached/dethroned/imprisoned (or all three).

I'd like to see very small 'crowds', all kitted out with pink pussy hats, placards, etc., standing with their backs to him.

That would piss him off in a bigly manner, no?

[Devil]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
It seems unfair to our dear Queen to foist The Deranged Dotard on her, though a 'working visit' may reduce her ordeal to a minimum.

Perhaps by the time a full state visit comes round, she'll have abdicated, or TDD will have been impeached/dethroned/imprisoned (or all three).

I'd like to see very small 'crowds', all kitted out with pink pussy hats, placards, etc., standing with their backs to him.

That would piss him off in a bigly manner, no?

[Devil]

IJ

Perhaps they will even "take a knee" in a gesture of prayer & mourning for their former colony.

(as for me, I'm memorizing the words to "God Save the Queen..."_

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The prime minister of Canada is currently visiting the psycho-Tweeter. There's this thing called NAFTA (North American Free Trade Agreement) involving Canada, USA and Mexico. Finger-man wants to throw Mexico under the bus and see about bilateral trade, and in other news the UK is apparently interested in joining NAFTA. aMAYzing

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Perhaps they will even "take a knee" in a gesture of prayer & mourning for their former colony.

If they kneel as he passes, you know he'll misinterpret that!

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Anglican_Brat
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Trump really, really is a terrible boss, and I don't know whether to admire his cabinet for staying for the sake of the country, or whether to admonish them for enabling his terrible behavior.

If my boss openly, criticized my job in public like Trump did when he tweeted that Tillerson was wasting his time negotiating with North Korea, I would immediately resign. As a manager, if you have a problem with what your underlings are doing, you should tell them in private and/or change things so that your underlings would end up doing things the way you want them to.

To openly disparage your employees in public, is a grievous violation of the employer/employee relationship, and should result in employees quitting out of a sense of their dignity.

My pious dream and hope is that everyone who works for Trump quits, and Trump ends up actually having to do all the work. Because the President has a terrible work ethic, the thought of actually expounding effort would be the thing that might make him resign.

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I am not defending Affleck, but it seems to me that the things has admitted to doing are on a different level to those being currently aired about others.

They are on a different level, but stem from the same problem. It is an abuse of the power dynamic that is especially, but not exclusively, aimed at women.

*I include Terry Crewes' revelation not to say that this is an equal opportunity abuse, but to show that if even a strong male feels difficulty in confronting the abuse, think of what it is like for women.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Bishops Finger
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Given the toxic swamp that the White House must be as a working environment, one can only suppose that the poor staff stay on simply because they have mortgages and families, and need the $$$.

How long, I wonder, would the Barking Dog last if everyone threw in the towel?

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
They are on a different level, but stem from the same problem. It is an abuse of the power dynamic that is especially, but not exclusively, aimed at women.

*I include Terry Crewes' revelation not to say that this is an equal opportunity abuse, but to show that if even a strong male feels difficulty in confronting the abuse, think of what it is like for women.

I don't know, I'm not in Hollywood so I can't accurately parse what is going on. But it sounds to me that there is a whole lot of power games being played between highly paid actors, and together with a generally sexually permissive culture means that drunkenly touching people on the bottom becomes normalised.

I could be proven wrong by events, of course but it sounds to me that the Afflick story is one of stupid and inappropriate fratboy behaviours that he now regrets whereas the Weinstein (and to be honest also the Trump) allegations are of much worse things.

Incidentally the Terry Crewes story is interesting for a number of reasons. First, he is a big guy so the mind boggles a bit as to what the heck could have happened at a party with his own wife there.

Second, Crewes has been very open with his struggles with a self-identified porn addiction. I only mention this because it is possible that he is now very sensitive to situations where others might not notice things (or possibly do not think they are abnormal).

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arse

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Soror Magna
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
... a generally sexually permissive culture ...

Sexual permissiveness <> no consent.

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

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mr cheesy
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That's true. I'm just saying certain behaviours might have become normalised.

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arse

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
I don't know, I'm not in Hollywood so I can't accurately parse what is going on. But it sounds to me that there is a whole lot of power games being played between highly paid actors, and together with a generally sexually permissive culture means that drunkenly touching people on the bottom becomes normalised.

It isn't restricted to the film industry, the power dynamic problem exists anywhere there is a power differential. And the other barriers for reporting sexual abuse are everywhere.
The film industry is worse in that how one gets hired or blacklisted is much more arbitrary, interconnected and easier to hide. It is who you know and who is willing to know you. At every level, from the production company down.
And it isn't "power games being played between highly paid actors, and together with a generally sexually permissive culture", it is powerful men thinking that their power allows them privilege.

[ 12. October 2017, 17:38: Message edited by: lilBuddha ]

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
And it isn't "power games being played between highly paid actors, and together with a generally sexually permissive culture", it is powerful men thinking that their power allows them privilege.

Well I think there are possibly two different things - actors drunkenly doing things with each other and powerful men thinking that they can sexually abuse people with impunity.

That doesn't mean that the things actors do to each other are right, but that's a different thing.

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arse

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
More "fun".
[Roll Eyes]

“I Hate Everyone in the White House!”: Trump Seethes as Advisers Fear the President Is “Unraveling” (Vanity Fair).

A "fun" game you can play with Mr. Sherman's article is count how many words or phrases can be interpreted as euphemisms for dementia. I get eight.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Ohher
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I dunno: unless you count versions of "White House aides are worried," I only find six.

That's OK, though. I wrote an open letter to Ivanka for my local paper months ago, with advice about broaching the Dreaded Conversation with one's elderly loved one that it's time to hang up the spurs and get help.

Donald's not the only autocratic, elderly, seat-of-the-pants, never-listening, nano-second-attention-span, my-way-or-the-highway parent on the US landscape; he's just the only one who currently happens to be president.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
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Goodbye UNESCO.

And from Israel too.

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
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Oh, further reading gives me:
quote:
The US has previously split with UNESCO during the presidency of Ronald Reagan, only to return in 2003 under George W. Bush.
Interesting.
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Golden Key
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Gwai--

quote:
Originally posted by Gwai:
Golden Key, if that first Vanity Fair article is true, it explains a lot of the cabinet shuffling--trying to get rid of the people who would 25th him while not shuffling so much that he can't pretend he's running the country--I can't tell whether it's just liberal hope/worry though.

Maybe, although T reportedly didn't know about the 25th until Steve Bannon told him. (Don't know when that was.)

It might be that, since he can't take criticism or even disagreement, he just can't keep people around who don't fit in his "I am a winner and the center of all things, therefore I'm worth being loved" world.

I really, really want him to resign. But, surfing around, I saw various articles suggesting that an impeachment move is in the works.

I want him out, SOON, non-violently and legally. I might be willing to bend a bit about ethically.

[Votive]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18177 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Gramps49
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And then there is the tweet storm he sent out about Puerto Rico, saying FEMA, the military, and the first responders cannot stay in Puerto Rico forever....

Meanwhile, FEMA is still in New Orleans after Katrina (that was 12 years ago). FEMA is still in New Jersey after Sandy (four years ago).

I wonder how long they will be in Houston or Florida, or California.

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Boogie

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If it is dementia there’s every chance it will rapidly get worse.

We can but hope.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
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I don't wish it on anyone, but if it gets him out...

I heard low-price health plans are on the agenda? I guess those with existing conditions or the elderly will have their premiums go up.

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Eirenist
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HM will not abdicate, Bishop's Finger. She vowed on her accession to devote the rest of her life to serving her people. Delegation of duties, or a diplomatic illness, are more likely.
Meanswile the Palace staff are probably counting the spoons . .

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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'

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L'organist
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I think HM's decision to retire from wreath laying may have more to do with Prince Philip's decision to retire from public engagements other than those where he is with her - and at 96 he has decided that standing in a chill wind and then laying his wreath is a bridge too far. Its not unreasonable that HM has decided to stay with him, though I'm surprised they've decided to observe from the FO balcony - I'd rather expected they'd choose to be seated in a carriage.

As for any Trump visit: I've long thought that the PoW and Camilla were a better bet if some of the royals must entertain the orange one. And with the Duchess of Cambridge being pregnant they can avoid her having to cope with any tiny wandering hands because she can plead illness [Biased]

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Rara temporum felicitate ubi sentire quae velis et quae sentias dicere licet

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by L'organist:
she can plead illness [Biased]

Pre-existing condition at that.

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
lB--

I was saying what I've observed in my American culture, over many years, when people talk about Dr. King.

Making the comment he did, in the way that he did, and saying "chill" when Americans reacted negatively, IMHO, showed that simontoad didn't get it, didn't care, or wasn't paying attention.

So I used it as an opportunity for education. [Biased]

And I thank you for that.

Lil Buddha was right. The post was fucked up. I got all giggly when I remembered the Ashley Madison song and judgement went out the window. Including MLK and Gary Hart was an attempt to show off about my fantastic knowledge of American political history. I got what I deserved.

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Human

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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I hope Camilla has a big handbag. She's famously no ten, and so Liddle Donny will probably leave her alone. He's only interested in beautiful women; if you aren't hot you're invisible.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
lB--

I was saying what I've observed in my American culture, over many years, when people talk about Dr. King.

Making the comment he did, in the way that he did, and saying "chill" when Americans reacted negatively, IMHO, showed that simontoad didn't get it, didn't care, or wasn't paying attention.

So I used it as an opportunity for education. [Biased]

And I thank you for that.

Lil Buddha was right. The post was fucked up. I got all giggly when I remembered the Ashley Madison song and judgement went out the window. Including MLK and Gary Hart was an attempt to show off about my fantastic knowledge of American political history. I got what I deserved.

Never thought I'd be saying this to you, but, well done.
[Overused]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Gramps49
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# 16378

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Even Uber Conservative Rush Limbaugh is expressing concern that with the NFL tirades, Trump is acting like a dictator.

Three examples of how dictatorial Trump is in the last 24 hours:

Signing an executive order allowing companies to find policies that are not in compliance with the Affordable Care Act and allowing insurance companies to sell them across state lines. A number of state insurance commissioners are not happy about this since approval of insurance programs is considered a state right.

Signing an executive order eliminating insurance subsidies for low-income people. Look for insurance companies to sue over that since that is a contractual obligation.

Decertifying Iran, saying it is out of compliance with the treaty that six nations signed. This in spite of the fact all indications Iran is in compliance, Trump's military advisors have argued for the treaty, and none of the other signatories are going along with Trump's decertification.

Did I mention Trump threatening to pull NBC's broadcasting license (he can't since there is no such license)?

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Soror Magna
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# 9881

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Maybe, although T reportedly didn't know about the 25th until Steve Bannon told him. (Don't know when that was.)...

Bannon should have called it the Air Force One amendment.

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

Posts: 5397 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005  |  IP: Logged
lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
And then there is the tweet storm he sent out about Puerto Rico, saying FEMA, the military, and the first responders cannot stay in Puerto Rico forever....

Meanwhile, FEMA is still in New Orleans after Katrina (that was 12 years ago). FEMA is still in New Jersey after Sandy (four years ago).

I wonder how long they will be in Houston or Florida, or California.

Whilst I doubt Cheeto has any clue as to how the process actually works, those FEMA still in New Orleans and New Jersey are not first responders. They are managing the process of rebuilding.
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:

Lil Buddha was right. The post was fucked up. I got all giggly when I remembered the Ashley Madison song and judgement went out the window. Including MLK and Gary Hart was an attempt to show off about my fantastic knowledge of American political history. I got what I deserved.

[Ultra confused] Kudos for this post.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

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HCH
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# 14313

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I saw an interesting item ("All In With Chris Hayes" on MSNBC) about Trump as a golfer. Apparently he has been accused by eyewitnesses of cheating many times over. I cannot say I am surprised. Does he play other games such as bridge or poker? Does he ever gamble in his own casinos?
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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He has also been filmed driving his golf cart onto the greens. I don't play and don't know why this is bad, but golfers howl at it.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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HCH
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# 14313

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Trump was quoted on CNN.com today as saying: "We are stopping cold the war on Judeo-Christian values."

Leaving aside the question of whether he understands the phrase or exemplifies it, let's ask: What is meant by the phrase "Judeo-Christian values"? Is there an established, well-known list of such values? Is this a reference to specifically the 10 Commandments or to the golden rule (which is found in other religions as well) or to monotheism? Is this phrase ever not misused? (Maybe this needs to be a separate thread.)

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Translate: "the goals of older white men."

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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And now... "President Trump Doesn’t Know He’s the President of the U.S. Virgin Islands" (Yahoo).

Someone needs to get him a huge, tactile map of the US and possessions, with labels about leaders and relationships. I don't know if he could process that, but worth a try. It could also be that his mind defaults to generics. Mine sometimes does. So the leader of a "foreign" place he doesn't really understand is labeled "president".

Just below, there are links to other relevant articles, like FEMA telling Puerto Rico not to listen to T.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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I believe this will work even if you're not on Facebook: Robert Reich interviews an ex-member of Congress. This is terrifying, folks. I knew it had to get worse before it could get better, but it's scary.

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Thanks, Brenda - yes, it did work for those of us who eschew the Book of Face.
quote:
Trump’s not just a moron. He’s a despicable human being. And he’s getting crazier. Paranoid. Unhinged. Everyone knows it. I mean, we’re in shit up to our eyeballs with this guy.
I don't think I'll bother starting to read War and Peace....

[Help]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Gramps49
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# 16378

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quote:
He has also been filmed driving his golf cart onto the greens. I don't play and don't know why this is bad, but golfers howl at it.
Brenda

Have you ever lawn bowled, or played croquet? What do you think would happen to your play if you had to roll your ball through a depression caused by a tire?

Maybe I did not have to mansplain this. [Razz]

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
quote:
He has also been filmed driving his golf cart onto the greens. I don't play and don't know why this is bad, but golfers howl at it.
Brenda

Have you ever lawn bowled, or played croquet? What do you think would happen to your play if you had to roll your ball through a depression caused by a tire?

Maybe I did not have to mansplain this. [Razz]

No, I've never played croquet either. The number of things I have never done is very large. Nor do I ever watch either sport on TV.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The USA is on the brink of pulling out of the Iran nuclear agreement. The USA can no longer be relied on for any international agreement. Which is very serious.

The above is approximately what the Swedish government said.

He's provoking 2 nations. Which will be third?

Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Hedgehog

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# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
The USA can no longer be relied on for any international agreement.

Sadly, that has been true for decades. The polarization of American politics means that, as each party gets control of the White House, the international agreements entered into by the previous administration get revoked. It is not just Trump revoking Obama-era agreements. GWB revoked a lot of Clinton-era agreements, and I think (but my memory is foggy) Clinton backed out of things that Reagan/Bush agreed to. President Obama actually carried through on GWB's promise to withdraw troops from Iraq--and Republicans lambasted him for doing it!! How dare he keep a promise!??!?!?! How outrageous that he kept America's word in a deal??!?!?!??!?

That is the reality of American politics. It isn't a Trump thing. It is our damn stupid politician thing. Why any country trust the US to honor its agreements baffles me. If I were in charge of a foreign country, I would only agree to deals that expire during the term of the current President--because it almost certainly will be revoked with the next administration.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
Trump was quoted on CNN.com today as saying: "We are stopping cold the war on Judeo-Christian values."

Leaving aside the question of whether he understands the phrase or exemplifies it, let's ask: What is meant by the phrase "Judeo-Christian values"? Is there an established, well-known list of such values? Is this a reference to specifically the 10 Commandments or to the golden rule (which is found in other religions as well) or to monotheism? Is this phrase ever not misused? (Maybe this needs to be a separate thread.)

He is stopping cold the war on Judeo-Christian values by defeating them once and for all. Individualism, consumerism, and sheer, raw greed had them on the mat for centuries, but it took Trump's ascendency to power with the nodding approval of a host of my fellow evangelicals to really deliver the knockout blow.

War over. Moloch won.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 11131 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Deutsche Welle has this to say.

quote:
Donald Trump played the strongman....pulled an old trick out of the bag, one that he had so gladly used in his previous life as a businessman and reality TV star. He simply redefined the rules of the game, according to his own terms....the damage has been done. The writing on the wall is that agreements made with the United States are not worth the paper on which they are written,
The word "pompous" is used. Germans are restrained. Time to isolate America? If it doesn't do some thing about this man?
Posts: 11183 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged



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