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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
It still spends 36% of the world's total and spends more than China, Russia, Saudi Arabia, India, France, United Kingdom, Japan & Germany combined.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Per capita, the USA military spending is 10th in the world. In terms of total spent, it spends 4x more than the next largest spender China and 6-10 times more than countries which rank 3 to 15. Link. (you can sort by largest and by per capita etc).
The link provided gives percent of GDP spending, not per capita. Big difference.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
Cross-referencing the data from npfiss' link with Wiki's population table shows that the U.S. is actually 4th in the world in terms of per capita military spending. The three above it (United Arab Emirates, Israel, and Oman) owe their position to low populations rather than high spending.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
There is no current poll on military member support for Trump. The last one I know of was in June after his first hundred days.
Depending on who you follow Trump garnered around 60% - 75% of the military vote.
At the beginning of his presidency, Trump had a 51% approval rating and a 41% disapproval rating
In June that flipped completely with 41% approving and 53% disapproving.
I believe if a new poll were held today you would see the disapproval rating matching the general population polls.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688
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Posted
Good grief. You know how bad it’s got when George W. Bush (!) starts sounding like the voice of reason.
Also – while Dubya has never been the most articulate or charismatic of speakers, and still isn’t (he stumbled over the pronunciation of some long words) – he actually used long words, in correctly assembled sentences respecting the habitual grammatical structures of the English language. Felt quite novel.
I still think Dubya left the world a worse place after his term in office but, for the first time, I actually feel some kind of respect for him. I suppose he has nothing to lose at this stage. Well done, George.
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Rent my holiday home in the South of France
Posts: 3696 | Registered: Nov 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
BTW, Murricans, would you please ask your President Tweeto to stop poking his orange nose into our Ukland affairs?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-41695667
A Tory MP's description of Tweeto as a 'daft twerp' hits the mark...
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Good grief. You know how bad it’s got when George W. Bush (!) starts sounding like the voice of reason.
Also – while Dubya has never been the most articulate or charismatic of speakers, and still isn’t (he stumbled over the pronunciation of some long words) – he actually used long words, in correctly assembled sentences respecting the habitual grammatical structures of the English language. Felt quite novel.
I still think Dubya left the world a worse place after his term in office but, for the first time, I actually feel some kind of respect for him. I suppose he has nothing to lose at this stage. Well done, George.
Me too. I never thought I would type the words, Goerge W. is so great!
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I thought his (alleged - but I hope it's true) comment regarding The Unspeakable Orange's inauguration speech was priceless:
quote:
“That was some weird shit.”
![[Overused]](graemlins/notworthy.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Just the other day Forbes Magazine claimed that in the past year Trump lost $600,000,000, dropping him from being the 156th richest person in the US to the 248th richest person in the US.
The next day, Forbes Magazine got a very strange voicemail. It follows:
"This message is for anyone in concern. I'm a supporter of Donald Trump. I love him and his very intelligent family. And this is like Forbes Magazine are in conspiracy to break this man financially, it seems. Donald Trump has more money than he ever had. So Forbes making noise about some three point something billion is fake news and therefore Forbes is on the drain-the-swamp list. Steve Bannon will make sure magazines and businesses like you will go down because Donald Trump is very intelligent, very handsome. His children are very beautiful, very handsome. They have the highest IQs than any racist or anybody in this county. And we love him, and he will continue to run this country, and his children will too. So fuck Forbes Magazine, and you can stick that fake news up your ass."
The call was anonymous but it has all the earmarks of Donald Trump's manner of speaking. The thought is it came from the OO himself.
Too bad he lost only $600,000,000.
In the meantime, the lawsuit in the New York Federal District court over Trump receiving emoluments is still going forward.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
I see Winston Churchhill's grandson has a new nickname for OO, "dafttweb." OO probably thinks it is a compliment.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Terrifying? Why? As terrifying as Kennedy? Johnson? Nixon? Carter? Reagan? Clinton?
[ 21. October 2017, 16:16: Message edited by: Martin60 ]
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Terrifying? Why? As terrifying as Kennedy? Johnson? Nixon? Carter? Reagan? Clinton?
Really? All people with faults, but they were adults.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
Doesn't say much for adults.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Doesn't say much for adults.
The point is, that you seem to be trying to make a comparison between them and the Cheeto. There isn't one.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Nixon is pretty close. trumpy is like Nixon on the techno-crack of twitter. Let's bomb Cambodia.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
They all found the limits of power. Most were spectacularly militarily incompetent or WORSE. Trump is uniquely gracelessly unpresidential, a horribly brilliant populist and as powerless as they. Clinton was an adult with his Cohiba? Was grown up in his turning his back on his failed UN cover venture in Somalia green lighting the Rwandan genocide? Johnson was adult in the Gulf of Tonkin? Carter scared the shit out of the Russians and failed in the daring of a cautious man in Iran (unlike Ford in Cambodia) and on and on. Reagan won the Cold War in his own back yard with murdering fascist scum like Blowtorch Bob. Bush Jnr. was grown up in invading Iraq? Trump just tweets shit.
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Trump just tweets shit.
I wish that was all he did. I don't have to read his tweets, I'd be irritated but otherwise content if all he did was indulge his taste for ill-considered impulsive 3 am tweetstorms.
But he doesn't just tweet. He issues executive orders-- horrible ones that keep people running for their lives from entering the US. Terrible ones that undermine our fragile, hard-won, second rate health care system we have, leaving people endangered. He undoes deals that have been made with young adults who have committed no crime-- deals that were made in good faith and that they built their future on. All decisions that are, quite literally, life and death.
And this is just the ones we know about. Then there's the very real possibility of collusion with the Russian government, orchestrating a bloodless coup that we are now living in. There's the very real questions about what at the very least looks like a highly questionable military action where real people died.
As far as I know, tweets never killed anyone. I wish I could say the same for Trump.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
How do we quantify the actual impact of his small minded EOs? Can he quantify a cost benefit? What actually changes? He talks nasty, narrow, populist isolationist shit, which creates anxiety in 'illegals', what lives are lost? So far and I'll bet for the next NINE years he'll do nothing as bad as Obama the King of Drone Collateral let alone Clinton or Bush Jnr.
Can we quantify the impact on women's rights? I.e. abortion? Where are the quantifiable impacts beyond tone?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
which creates anxiety in 'illegals', what lives are lost?
What quality of life can you have being in such a state? Always expecting the knock or always expecting to be arrested. I could see how anxiety could be very troubling. It's not death from drones above, or known deportation, but many innocents are caught up in this extreme anxiety, which troubles me.
I get anxious going outside; I know I could not cope with this.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Martin--
Why do you keep defending T?
Many of your posts can be read that way, as saying "oh, he couldn't possibly be THAT bad". American Shipmates and others have laid it out, time and time again, for the past year. We've provided citations for all sorts of things.
T is a complete mess, and in no way functional enough to be president. Seriously.
Is this your way of coping with the danger? Denial is not just a river in Egypt.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
GK, you raise a Good Point.
If Martin60 lived in America, he might not be so sanguine about The Deranged Dotard. We in Ukland see through a glass, darkly, but you poor Usanians have to live and cope with the Orange Monster as best you can.
Other presidents - even the gracious, witty, intelligent, articulate, populist Obama - had their faults and failings, as do we all, but at least they tried to do a good job.
The Barking Dog just barks uselessly, and continually, via Twitter. He is a disgrace to the country, and to the office of President.
(Please dispose of him somehow before he comes and pollutes our soil by setting foot on it, BTW).
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Why do you keep defending T?
I think it's a Sanders-supporter / Green-supporter / anarcho-socialist type thing. "All Presidents are part of the evil racist capitalist military-industrial complex; Trump merely a little more overtly so"; or so the thinking goes.
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we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams
Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004
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quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740
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Posted
Yes, it sounds rather like various ultra-left views, for example, that Labour are the same as Tories, so a vote for Labour is pointless. Well, there is some truth in that, but also some falsity. I suppose the equivalent is that it's pointless to vote Democrat, as they are tied to big business and so on.
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I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.
Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
I was helping with the prayers today at church (you can come up during the Eucharist and ask the little prayer team for specific prayer). And a friend of mine, a widow who runs a small business, came up to pray about her financial situation. Customers didn't pay and she's going to have surgery, losing her home, etc. And she said, "The Trump people owe me $135,000, and I can't get them to pay."
We have of course read of similar vendors, in all the newspapers. Oppressing widows, what's new? But wow -- I actually know one of them. How very many must there be!
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
And Our Blessed Lord was not too keen on those who oppressed orphans, widows, etc.....
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
Barking Dog, watch out for those Pearly Gates. There may be a sign directing you down to the boiler room...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
Please stop calling him a dog, dogs are good animals I love to spend my time with and have near me. I wouldn’t want to be in the same town as the T**** .
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Please stop calling him a dog, dogs are good animals I love to spend my time with and have near me. I wouldn’t want to be in the same town as the T**** .
I agree. I believe T**** is one of the first U.S. Presidents to not have ever had a pet. Having a dog might have made him a better person, but I assume he was one of those kids who pulled the wings off of flies, so it's probably better he never had a pet to abuse.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Sorry, Boogie - I was simply quoting Mr. Kim.
Point taken, though - as you say, dogs are Good, and probably far more sagacious than The Orange Dotard.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Karl: Liberal Backslider
Shipmate
# 76
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Please stop calling him a dog, dogs are good animals I love to spend my time with and have near me. I wouldn’t want to be in the same town as the T**** .
I agree. I believe T**** is one of the first U.S. Presidents to not have ever had a pet. Having a dog might have made him a better person, but I assume he was one of those kids who pulled the wings off of flies, so it's probably better he never had a pet to abuse.
He'd be the sort to let the animal shit everywhere and not clean up. Probably let it savage other people's dogs.
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Might as well ask the bloody cat.
Posts: 17938 | From: Chesterfield | Registered: May 2001
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Robert Armin
All licens'd fool
# 182
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
Good grief. You know how bad it’s got when George W. Bush (!) starts sounding like the voice of reason.
One of Trump's accomplishments is that, with every day that passes, he makes W look more presidential.
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Keeping fit was an obsession with Fr Moity .... He did chin ups in the vestry, calisthenics in the pulpit, and had developed a series of Tai-Chi exercises to correspond with ritual movements of the Mass. The Antipope Robert Rankin
Posts: 8927 | From: In the pack | Registered: May 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
The Iraq invading, millions dead, torture president looks good in comparison... I don't remember beaming into the alternate universe. Burn baby burn
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
How do we quantify the actual impact of his small minded EOs? Can he quantify a cost benefit? What actually changes? He talks nasty, narrow, populist isolationist shit, which creates anxiety in 'illegals', what lives are lost? So far and I'll bet for the next NINE years he'll do nothing as bad as Obama the King of Drone Collateral let alone Clinton or Bush Jnr.
Can we quantify the impact on women's rights? I.e. abortion? Where are the quantifiable impacts beyond tone?
On quite a few of these EOs, yes, we can quantify them.
We can, for example, quantify the number of DACA kids-- young adults who made a deal with the US, kept their end of the bargain, made future decisions like enrolling in college and revealing personal info to Homeland Security based on the assurances of that deal-- who have had their contracts torn up. We can document those DACA students who have already been deported.
We can count the number of families who have been separated due to immigration crack downs-- again, people with signed agreements with ICE-- where fathers or mothers have been separated from their children. Documentable.
In the months to come, we will be able to document the numbers of US citizens who lose their health insurance due to the most recent EOs regarding Obamacare (after the GOP tried & failed yet again to repeal Obamacare) which gut the financial viability of that program. Eventually, we will be able to document how many people died of preventable diseases because they were not screened or treated as they would have been under Obamacare.
In the months to come, we will be able to document how the abortion rate increases among those who have been denied access to contraception under a recent EO.
And these are just the things that are easy to count. There are many, many other examples that are clear but simply not as easy to count-- e.g. increase in violence against all sorts of ethnic minorities, Muslims, Jews, LGBTQ+.
And these are just the current EOs now in effect. There are things that have been threatened and may in fact come to pass in the near future-- such as the recent Dept. of Ed. threats to disability education-- that will have similarly dire effects if enacted.
So Martin, exactly how much human suffering are you willing to chalk up to empty talk before you finally accept that this is more than just tweet storms? Given that at least two of the countable examples mentioned above effect my own critically ill granddaughter, I passed that threshold months ago.
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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner
Posts: 11242 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
What harm has the daftwit's Executive Orders done.
Well, with a stroke of the pen, he has gutted the Affordable Care Act.
With a stroke of the pen, he has put a hold on refugee resettlement in the United States. He has even created refugees fleeing into Canada from the US
With a stroke of the pen, he is trying to undo everything the Obama administration had accomplished.
With a stroke of the pen, he is reducing several national monuments (though this will be challenged in court).
By a stroke of the pen, he has withdrawn from the Paris Accords.
By a stroke of the pen, he has gutted the clean air act and will allow more coal to be burned, though many economists are now saying that won't happen.
By a stroke of the pen, he has effectively canceled American participation in the Iranian Agreements.
By a stroke of the pen
Obama was roundly criticized by the Republicans for using executive orders to get his agenda across; yet, in Trump's first 200 days, he has signed more executive orders than Obama did in Obama's first year.
How much damage has daftwit's Executive Orders done? Let's just say it might take twenty years to undo all the repercussions.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
I don't think Martin is supporting Trump in his recent posts, but using Trump to attack US foreign policy since the Second World War. It's a bullshit attack, but I think that's what he's doing.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
simontoad--
Maybe. But, to me, it reads like "Pres. So-and-so did this and that; how is T any worse?"
Other people have used that tactic, too, though they've ebbed. Martin, however, has repeatedly posted such things lately. Surprising, and it doesn't seem like him, IMHO.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
Please stop calling him a dog, dogs are good animals I love to spend my time with and have near me. I wouldn’t want to be in the same town as the T**** .
I agree. I believe T**** is one of the first U.S. Presidents to not have ever had a pet. Having a dog might have made him a better person, but I assume he was one of those kids who pulled the wings off of flies, so it's probably better he never had a pet to abuse.
Just for the record:
--Lots of people never have pets, for all sorts of reasons (not allowed, allergies, no place to walk them, etc.) and turn out fine.
--Lots of people have pets, and turn out badly for all sorts of reasons.
--Not having a pet, not wanting a pet IS NOT THE SAME as hating animals or abusing them.
--Some people like animals a lot, but just don't want to live with them or be responsible for them. There's nothing wrong with that.
T needed a healthier family, and probably a whole lot of other help. From what I've heard of his family of origin, it's probably a good thing that there wasn't a pet in the mix. Too much tension and competition.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
This is from the POST but is delicious: John McCain mentions bone spurs as a specific excuse that rich white boys used to get out of going to Vietnam.
I had a feeling at the time that McCain wasn't going to forget being accused of being a loser. There is no one like Li'l Donny for making unnecessary enemies. If one wrote a character this idiotic in a book, the editor would say, "Dear, this is all a little bit unbelievable. Can you dial it back?"
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Golden Key, I didn't mean to imply all that you seem to think I did. I have dear friends (including a Shipmate) who have never had or wanted pets.
But I also know that many people benefit from the companionship of pets (especially dogs), and maybe Trump would have become a better person if he'd had a dog to love and to love him more than his parents did. (But, more likely, the dog would have suffered a miserable existence.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is from the POST but is delicious: John McCain mentions bone spurs as a specific excuse that rich white boys used to get out of going to Vietnam.
I had a feeling at the time that McCain wasn't going to forget being accused of being a loser. There is no one like Li'l Donny for making unnecessary enemies. If one wrote a character this idiotic in a book, the editor would say, "Dear, this is all a little bit unbelievable. Can you dial it back?"
Here is a free version.
Delicious indeed ... let’s see what kind of tweet it provokes. No way the T*** will leave it alone.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
BF--
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
GK, you raise a Good Point.
If Martin60 lived in America, he might not be so sanguine about The Deranged Dotard. We in Ukland see through a glass, darkly, but you poor Usanians have to live and cope with the Orange Monster as best you can.
Other presidents - even the gracious, witty, intelligent, articulate, populist Obama - had their faults and failings, as do we all, but at least they tried to do a good job.
The Barking Dog just barks uselessly, and continually, via Twitter. He is a disgrace to the country, and to the office of President.
(Please dispose of him somehow before he comes and pollutes our soil by setting foot on it, BTW).
BF--
Thanks for this, especially the second paragraph. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
I think it's possible T thinks he's doing a good job--or trying to, but everyone's getting in his way.
Within legal and non-violent parameters, most Americans (IMHO) would like to get him out of office. But he's Republican; both houses of Congress are controlled by Republicans; many members of Congress are in the pockets of lobbyists and corporate interests; and there are certain criteria for the established ways of evicting him, which include who has to support it.
The shadow of Watergate probably doesn't help, either. At the time, it was wrenching; and, as I recall, the hearings were on TV everyday. Plus Americans prefer a stable, solid gov't. That's one reason a parliament would never work here. Either we'd resist having the gov't taken apart and rearranged like LEGOs; or we'd wind up doing it every other week.
(Parliaments may work very well for the countries that have them, and that's great; but I've never liked the idea. And, when I was growing up, it seemed from the news that the French and...Italian (?) gov'ts were always collapsing and re-forming.)
QUESTION for those of other countries who think we should get T out of office soon:
What if it were your country? What LEGAL and NON-VIOLENT methods would be available?
Historically, how was it handled in your countries? Granted, there are classic, quick ways for removing a sovereign from office. But have there been cases when it was done legally and non-violently?
How was King George III handled when his porphyria-madness was active?
Thx.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
What if it were your country? What LEGAL and NON-VIOLENT methods would be available?
orfeo and Gee D can probably best answer the legal means for this for Australia.
Sorry for this: but I think the only method is to wait it out and turf him out at the next election. Like it, or not, he did win the election through the means in place: the popular vote is a poor thing to turn to -- it is not the means of election here in Oz either. Unless something illegal is done we're kind of stuffed. I'd like our pretentious prat of a PM to get stuffed, but I just need to wait til the next election (hopefully).
I would hope the Opposition would take a good hard look at themselves, realise they are beholden to big business as much as the Liberal/Nationals [the party Trump would be in: btw Liberals are conservatives!], realise many people are suffering, across all classes and groups, and formulate suitable policies to address this. I don't think we'd get a Corbyn or Sanders, and maybe we don't want one, but I'd hope for a change. The 2 big parties can't yet see the change in the electorate; or perhaps don't want to. Or perhaps I'm just too socialist.
[ 24. October 2017, 02:47: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Pigwidgeon--
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
Golden Key, I didn't mean to imply all that you seem to think I did. I have dear friends (including a Shipmate) who have never had or wanted pets.
But I also know that many people benefit from the companionship of pets (especially dogs), and maybe Trump would have become a better person if he'd had a dog to love and to love him more than his parents did. (But, more likely, the dog would have suffered a miserable existence.)
Thank you. I'm not a pet person, and I've run into the things I mentioned. Animals are wonderful. When I was growing up, I occasionally pet-sat dogs and cats at their own homes. And that was fine. I had fish, long, long ago. I wasn't allowed anything else.
But I don't want the 24-7ness of responsibility for a pet, nor of its constant presence. I am, however, quite willing to say hello to pets and other animals I meet. Kind of like running into a neighbor. I might say hi, or chat; but I'm not going to take them home, and give them their own bed and bowl. ![[Biased]](wink.gif) I think I lean towards not believing in pets, as a rule; but it's too late for dogs and cats to go back to the wild.
Probably TMI.
Anyway, I know that having a pet can be a really good influence/experience for some kids. But I've heard the presidents and dogs theory before; and I think it's problematic, for the reasons I mentioned.
Thanks for hearing me out.
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
Kind of like running into a neighbor. I might say hi, or chat; but I'm not going to take them home, and give them their own bed and bowl.
Brain bleach! Brain bleach!
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
mt--
I don't know what *you* had in mind. I meant it literally: I'm not about to take a human neighbor home, and give them a pet bed and a pet bowl. Saying "hi, how are you?" in passing is enough.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
I think in the case of George III Parliament acted to appoint his son Regent.
It's pretty easy to get rid of the Prime Minister in Australia, because it is not a directly elected office. In practice, the political party the Prime Minister leads meets and decides to elect someone else leader. I think the last three Prime Ministers lost their office that way. The deposed PM stays in Parliament, which can lead to some pretty severe food fights in the Parliamentary Dining Room.
I think what happens procedurally is that the new leader of the political party in Government announces to the House of Representatives that they are now the leader. There being no objection, they toodle along to see the Governor General, the representative of the Queen, and ask them for permission to form a Government. Permission is given, everyone is sworn in, and then they all go and get pissed at the PM's official residence, The Lodge.
On one such occasion, a Minister of the Crown was gyrating on a glass coffee table when the table broke and the Minister injured himself to such an extent that he required a wheelchair to attend Parliament the next day. His colleagues went around saying to the press that they had no idea that anyone had gyrated on top of a coffee table, let alone the bloke in the wheelchair. When pressed, they said they assumed that he had a skiing accident. When the journos mentioned it was high summer, they just stared blankly for a few seconds before running away.
Now that's Government for you!
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
How was King George III handled when his porphyria-madness was active?
The Prince of Wales acted as regent for the remainder of George's life.
Do you really want T's son or son-in-law to step in? I guess it could not be worse, could it? ![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368
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Posted
As is only right in Purg, I'm tilting at the windmills of hyperbole over Trump.
His EOs are biting the poor, freedom from, in the name of freedom to, greed. Worse than any modern Republican president?
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Love wins
Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Martin--
Actually, we're not using hyperbole about Trump.
_He_ _is_ _crazy_.
Possibly has dementia; definitely was broken by his father, who taught all the kids that "only winners deserve to be loved"; erratic; wants ten times the number of nukes we have; keeps poking the dysfunctional president of N. Korea towards a war; his doc confirmed he still uses Minoxidil/Rogaine, a medicine for hair loss that has known brain effects; he can't cope with being less than the center of all things, and better than everyone else; he even insists on always having two scoops of ice cream at official dinners, rather than the limit of one that everyone else gets (minor, but demonstrative); he sexually assaults and harasses; he has some sort of developmental disability, and Obama said T has "severe learning disabilities"; etc.
Martin, if I may ask, have you watched any of T's news conferences? He gets caught off guard by reporters, and says truly bizarre stuff. He claims to do things he hasn't, like contacting more parents of dead US military members than the last several presidents. He offends a family of a dead soldier, then claims he was very supportive. Etc., etc.
And why, after all this time, are you assuming that the anti-Trump folks are just posting hyperbole???
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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