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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:


In a vicar it's annoying. In a POTUS it's deeply concerning that he apparently confuses his own interests with those of his country.

(I have to confess that I only have the reporter's summary to go on, I find Trump impossible to understand or even listen to in person.)

That's worrying. I can remember Gerald Ford, Dan Quayle, Bush jnr and Donald Rumsfeld. Is he worse than all of those?
Worse than all of them put together, raised to the 10th power, shaken together and running over, on steroids.

Don't ever expect him to be within hailing distance of normal or healthy. He's wayyyyyy too broken, dysfunctional, and messed up. He has very rare moments of near normal, but they're *very* rare.

No offense, but anyone who analyzes him as they would a normal or somewhat off-normal president will always be mistaken.
[Angel]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
Has any other president talked about "my generals" and "my military"? It's an affectation I personally find particularly offensive. I once knew a vicar who talked about "my churchwardens", "my sidesmen" etc.. He was a self-obsessed knob with bad hair, much like El Presidente, in fact.

In a vicar it's annoying. In a POTUS it's deeply concerning that he apparently confuses his own interests with those of his country.

(I have to confess that I only have the reporter's summary to go on, I find Trump impossible to understand or even listen to in person.)

The president is the Commander-in-Chief of all the armed forces. That link goes to the "Trump's Benghazi" thread. There was a discussion between Ian and I about the details of that.

T's comments may have gone too far, but he *is* the boss of all those generals.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Gramps49
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# 16378

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I'm underwhelmed. If Corker and Flake (sounds like a breakfast cereal company) were patriots instead of Republicans, they run, and win, and fight on to slow the Trump train.

There is some thought that Flake may challenge Trump in 2020 (that is assuming Trump is still in office then).

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:


In a vicar it's annoying. In a POTUS it's deeply concerning that he apparently confuses his own interests with those of his country.

(I have to confess that I only have the reporter's summary to go on, I find Trump impossible to understand or even listen to in person.)

That's worrying. I can remember Gerald Ford, Dan Quayle, Bush jnr and Donald Rumsfeld. Is he worse than all of those?
Worse than all of them put together, raised to the 10th power, shaken together and running over, on steroids.
Just after the 2008 election, there was a facebook group formed called "I love it when I wake up in the morning and Bush isn't president". Earlier this year they posted a meme with a picture of W and the words:

"miss me yet?"
2009: nope
2010: nope
2011: nope
2012: nope
2013: nope
2014: nope
2015: nope
2016: nope
2017: oh sweet baby Jesus yes

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Just after the 2008 election, there was a facebook group formed called "I love it when I wake up in the morning and Bush isn't president". Earlier this year they posted a meme with a picture of W and the words:

"miss me yet?"
2009: nope
2010: nope
2011: nope
2012: nope
2013: nope
2014: nope
2015: nope
2016: nope
2017: oh sweet baby Jesus yes

What's to miss? Incompetent response to devastating hurricane? Love of torture? "Black site" detentions? Mendaciously lying America (and several other nations) into a brutal and counter-productive war? Demonizing gay people for electoral advantage? Economically destructive tax policy and a financial regulatory strategy that crashed the world economy?

Quite honestly if you miss the George W. Bush presidency (and remember it accurately) you should be quite at home with the Donald Trump version.

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Just after the 2008 election, there was a facebook group formed called "I love it when I wake up in the morning and Bush isn't president". Earlier this year they posted a meme with a picture of W and the words:

"miss me yet?"
2009: nope
2010: nope
2011: nope
2012: nope
2013: nope
2014: nope
2015: nope
2016: nope
2017: oh sweet baby Jesus yes

What's to miss? Incompetent response to devastating hurricane? Love of torture? "Black site" detentions? Mendaciously lying America (and several other nations) into a brutal and counter-productive war? Demonizing gay people for electoral advantage? Economically destructive tax policy and a financial regulatory strategy that crashed the world economy?

Quite honestly if you miss the George W. Bush presidency (and remember it accurately) you should be quite at home with the Donald Trump version.

I think you're missing the point/irony of the meme. Explaining it would butcher it further.

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I think you're missing the point/irony of the meme. Explaining it would butcher it further.

I get the joke. I just don't think it's particularly funny, given that there is an actual well-organized and determined attempt to rehabilitate the public image of George W. Bush (and, more importantly, his political priorities).

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Perhaps the fact that the joke isn't particularly funny is part of the irony, IYSWIM.

I don't recall much about George W's presidency, but was it so bad?

Mind you, it's hard to envisage anyone worse than the Great Pumpkin.....

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:

I don't recall much about George W's presidency, but was it so bad?

Ask an Iraqi. Or an Afghani. Or a victim of the 2008 recession.*

Oh, and you do not have to remember his presidency when you can remember 3 posts before your own.

*Though, in fairness, other people share that blame, including past presidents.

--------------------
I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Perhaps the fact that the joke isn't particularly funny is part of the irony, IYSWIM.

I don't recall much about George W's presidency, but was it so bad?

Mind you, it's hard to envisage anyone worse than the Great Pumpkin.....
J
IJ

It was absolutely so bad. Remember Katrina? Financial melt down? That was the point of meme

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
I don't recall much about George W's presidency, but was it so bad?

Mind you, it's hard to envisage anyone worse than the Great Pumpkin.....

It was pretty bad. More to the point, this kind of post facto rehabilitation of Republican malefactors is pretty much how someone like Trump becomes president*.

Nixon was never held accountable for subverting American democracy. His chief henchmen spent time in prison for their crimes, but Nixon demonstrated that if you're president, you're above the law. Far from "our long national nightmare [being] over", it was only just beginning.

The Reagan administration took it further, selling prohibited weapons to a state sponsor of terror in order to fund an illegal and unconstitutional war in Central America. That time not only did the president skate, his chief cronies also escaped consequences, either because of legal technicalities or through Bush Sr. being pretty openhanded with his pardon power in his final days in office. This demonstrated that not only can a president escape accountability for his criminal actions, so can his most highly placed associates.

By the time we reach Bush Jr. it became clear that the U.S. was unwilling to even officially investigate the abuses of the executive branch. The presidency (at least when headed by a Republican) was essentially free of any kind of legal consequences for criminal acts.

So you'll excuse me if I don't get a huge belly laugh out of the main process used by American presidents (with an 'R' after their names) to facilitate and excuse their own criminal behavior.

Why does Trump think he can shut down any investigation into his own misdeeds? Given the history, why wouldn't he?

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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Fair point
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Charges filed in federal court by the Mueller investigation.
CNN reports,
"A federal grand jury in Washington, DC, on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to sources briefed on the matter.
The charges are still sealed under orders from a federal judge. Plans were prepared Friday for anyone charged to be taken into custody as soon as Monday, the sources said. It is unclear what the charges are."
Oh, there are going to be some damp beds at 1600 Pennsylvania this weekend.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Nicolemr
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# 28

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I'm waiting with bated breath for Monday!

--------------------
On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Nicolemr:
I'm waiting with bated breath for Monday!

I've got the champagne on ice. But Rachel Maddow is warning us not to expect too much too quickly-- she thinks this one will be one of the small fish they're hoping will turn

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Interesting that the JFK assassination archives have come out at about the same time. Odds on which parts of the media will focus on which? And which the press secretary will choose to focus on?
[Roll Eyes]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Ian Climacus

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On the Chinese President, Xi Jinping:

"People say we have the best relationship of any president-president, because he's called president also. Now some people might call him the king of China. But he's called president."

Every programme I have watched has had someone say Trump is the only one who thought he was a king.

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Charges filed in federal court by the Mueller investigation.
CNN reports,
"A federal grand jury in Washington, DC, on Friday approved the first charges in the investigation led by special counsel Robert Mueller, according to sources briefed on the matter.

The only people I can think of who would be "briefed on the matter" would be Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and his staff. If that is, in fact, the source (purely speculative) that's a pretty egregious leak.

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
On the Chinese President, Xi Jinping:

"People say we have the best relationship of any president-president, because he's called president also. Now some people might call him the king of China. But he's called president."

Every programme I have watched has had someone say Trump is the only one who thought he was a king.

To be fair, Trump also seems to think that he himself was elected king of the USA...

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:

It was pretty bad. More to the point, this kind of post facto rehabilitation of Republican malefactors is pretty much how someone like Trump becomes president*.

and further to your point, I'd say that this also applies to the rehabilitation of all the never-Trump Republicans who have spent the last few decades ratcheting up the political temperature.
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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This is a free click, from the Atlantic: Robert Jeffress, pastor of the First Baptist in Dallas, TX, explains why Trump is a man of God. I particularly admire how he can prove that he's in the center of God's will because he has such an expensive church building.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
It was pretty bad. More to the point, this kind of post facto rehabilitation of Republican malefactors is pretty much how someone like Trump becomes president*.

and further to your point, I'd say that this also applies to the rehabilitation of all the never-Trump Republicans who have spent the last few decades ratcheting up the political temperature.
We've actually seen this movie before. Sometime between November 2008 and January 2009 America suffered one of the greatest political missing persons cases of all time. Millions upon millions of Republican supporters of George W. Bush simply vanished and, in a truly bizarre twist, millions upon millions of "independents" suddenly appeared on the American political scene in freshly creased tricorn hats and calling themselves the "Tea Party". (Oddly enough, no pods were ever found.) These "independents" were certainly never involved in politics before and had definitely never even heard of this "George W. Bush" person, but they felt very strongly about Kenyan Muslim Communist Usurpers in the White House. In another, possibly related, mass disappearance the members of the "Tea Party" now seem to have disappeared as well, though they seem to have been replaced by a roughly equal number of Republicans.

See also.

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Ian Climacus

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# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is a free click, from the Atlantic: Robert Jeffress, pastor of the First Baptist in Dallas, TX, explains why Trump is a man of God. I particularly admire how he can prove that he's in the center of God's will because he has such an expensive church building.

Yes, that was intriguing. As was:

quote:
I think [Trump]’s a great role model for doing what he’s been called to do, and that is being president of the United States. He is doing a fantastic job in that way. I think he is showing strong leadership.

...

[Jeffress followed up in an email to say: “I do think President Trump is a positive role model for children. Specifically, I would be happy for my children (and now, my coming grandchildren) to emulate his work ethic, leadership skills, and patriotism.”]

The mind truly boggles. Do these people hate "the Left" so much they are blind to anyone on the right's faults? Tweeting nasty things is being a role model? Getting no legislation through is evidence of work ethic and leadership??? Oh my.

I really didn't realise you had non politicians or lobbyists sprouting this.

[ 28. October 2017, 21:12: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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When you are in heaven and Jeffress fellow moves in across the street and has trumpy and some others over for a meet-up, you'll know you're not in heaven and missed the bus CS Lewis described in [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Great_DivorceThe Great Divorce[/url].

Is it acceptable to pray thus?: "may the sunrise catch them soon".

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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What this says to me (and it's proven by the guest preachers he's bringing in, from Fox News!!!) is that he and his entire congregation h/a/v/e t/h/e/i/r h/e/a/d/s u/p t/h/e/i/r a/s/s/e/s are deep in the right wing media bubble. There is no way for reality to get into that bubble, it's impermeable.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I think you're missing the point/irony of the meme. Explaining it would butcher it further.

I get the joke. I just don't think it's particularly funny, given that there is an actual well-organized and determined attempt to rehabilitate the public image of George W. Bush (and, more importantly, his political priorities).
FWIW: I remember how bad Dubya was, how dysfunctional he was, and the awful things he did.

I also think T is *much* more dysfunctional, and probably a lot more dangerous. (Like wanting 10 x the current amount of nukes.)

I applaud the scattered good comments from Dubya, and IIRC doing charitable work with Bill Clinton. That does *not* make up for what he did. But it might be a sign of a little bit of personal progress. It also makes him look better than T, by comparison.

FWIW, YMMV.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Ian--

quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
The mind truly boggles. Do these people hate "the Left" so much they are blind to anyone on the right's faults? Tweeting nasty things is being a role model? Getting no legislation through is evidence of work ethic and leadership??? Oh my.

I really didn't realise you had non politicians or lobbyists sprouting this.

Yup. Someone--maybe PT Barnum?--said something like "you can never over-estimate the gullibility of the American people". He may also have said something about getting rich from that gullibility. (He was a circus owner, event promoter, and a con man--to some extent.)

I don't know what that pastor has been smoking, but he sure needs rehab.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Ian Climacus

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# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
What this says to me (and it's proven by the guest preachers he's bringing in, from Fox News!!!) is that he and his entire congregation h/a/v/e t/h/e/i/r h/e/a/d/s u/p t/h/e/i/r a/s/s/e/s are deep in the right wing media bubble. There is no way for reality to get into that bubble, it's impermeable.

I'd agree.

I'm sure these people have always existed. Have they been "under the radar" previously? Or ignored, predominantly, by those in charge? Is it really Trump that has allowed them to slither out into the open to spew bile and venom? Or something else?

edit: Thanks for the quote GK - applicable to any country I think!

[ 28. October 2017, 23:44: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Are they 47% real like donnie trumpie's Twitter audit score. Sad
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Crœsos
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Those of you who had "Paul Manafort" in today's indictment betting pool, collect your winnings. If you also had "Rick Gates", you're obviously working from inside information. [Big Grin] It's still not known what Manafort and Gates are charged with, but my (hypothetical) money would be on something relating to money laundering.

This may actually be spinnable by Trump and company, given that Manafort was fired from the campaign. Expect a "devious Manafort taking advantage of poor, naïve Trump, who fired Manafort as soon as he figured out something bad was going on" narrative to develop.

And currently on Fox News . . .

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Bishops Finger
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....and breaking on BBC News as well:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41804740

I daresay the Twittersphere will be absolutely saturated with Trumptweets within the next hour or two (if it isn't already).

Can't someone please block the Twitter account of Putin's Orange Pup?

[Help]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Stephen
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# 40

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
....and breaking on BBC News as well:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41804740

I daresay the Twittersphere will be absolutely saturated with Trumptweets within the next hour or two (if it isn't already).

Can't someone please block the Twitter account of Putin's Orange Pup?

[Help]

IJ

Putin's Orange Pup!
[Killing me]

I like it! But let's be honest, he's enough to give anyone the pip isn't he..... [Biased]

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Best Wishes
Stephen

'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10

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jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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Last I heard, POP's tweets were strangely silent!

Go, get 'em, Mr. Mueller!!

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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So according to the updated version of the CNN story, the charges against Manafort are:

  • conspiracy against the United States
  • conspiracy to launder money
  • unregistered agent of a foreign principal
  • false and misleading US Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) statements
  • false statements in other contexts
  • failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts (7 counts)

The conspiracy charges are the most interesting, since they imply co-conspirators.

(For reference: the Illustrated Guide to Law's section on conspiracy)

[ 30. October 2017, 13:08: Message edited by: Crœsos ]

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
So according to the updated version of the CNN story, the charges against Manafort are:

  • conspiracy against the United States
  • conspiracy to launder money
  • unregistered agent of a foreign principal
  • false and misleading US Foreign Agents Registration Act (FARA) statements
  • false statements in other contexts
  • failure to file reports of foreign bank and financial accounts (7 counts)

The conspiracy charges are the most interesting, since they imply co-conspirators.

(For reference: the Illustrated Guide to Law's section on conspiracy)

Yes. My sense is they're throwing the book at him, first of all because he deserves it of course, but also to get him to turn and implicate the bigger, orange fish. That's what we're all praying for.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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A friend of mine mentioned that when you say the words 'stoic endurance', the image of Paul Manafort does not leap into the mind's eye. With luck he'll sing like a canary.

What worries me now is the thought that Crooked Don will resort to pre-emptive pardons. He doesn't even have to do it more than once or twice. If enough of these rats know that Lyin' Don will get them off the hook, they'll hang together, Mafiosi-style and keep quiet.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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But, if the Orange Pip does go for pre-emptive pardons, doesn't that just make them all look even more guilty? Including the Chief Pip?

As in 'the [gentleman] doth protest too much, methinks'.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
What worries me now is the thought that Crooked Don will resort to pre-emptive pardons. He doesn't even have to do it more than once or twice. If enough of these rats know that Lyin' Don will get them off the hook, they'll hang together, Mafiosi-style and keep quiet.

Pardoning can be a two-edged sword. Once someone is pardoned they lose their Fifth Amendment right against self-incrimination. In other words, if they can't be convicted of anything (because they've been pardoned) they can't refuse to offer evidence against others on the grounds that it might lead to their own conviction. They can, however, still be convicted of perjury if they lie or obstruction of justice if they refuse to testify.

And over at Washington Monthly David Atkins reminds us that the only reason to hire Manafort as campaign manager was to collude with Russia.

quote:
[T]he conservative line is that while Manafort may have been involved in shady dealings, and while Trump’s family and campaign may have met with Russians promising to deliver dirt on his opponent, Trump himself was not complicit with Russia to interfere in the election.

This is almost assuredly untrue, because there was no reason to hire Manafort in the first place except to collude with Russia.

It’s hard to remember sometimes given the insanity that has occurred since, but eyebrows were raised across the spectrum when Manafort was initially hired as Trump’s campaign manager back in 2016. Manafort was an ancillary player in Republican politics and already clearly compromised. My colleague Martin Longman noted earlier this year that Manafort was closely connected to Roger Stone, himself a disgraced crackpot with his own insalubrious ties and connection to likely Russian hacker Guccifer 2.0.

Manafort was a terrible choice for campaign manager, both in terms of competence and optics. It was neither a pick designed to buoy his populist credentials, nor was it a sop to the GOP establishment that Trump desperately needed at the time. The only thing Manafort had in his favor was his close ties to Putin, and there is no conceivable reason to have hired him except to leverage those ties.

If Manafort is indeed the primary target of Mueller’s probe, it’s a guarantee that the Trump campaign absolutely intended to collude closely with Russia as a longshot path to a difficult election.

Which means that one of two things is true: either Donald Trump was not closely involved in hiring his campaign manager or the rationale for it, or he directly intended to use Russian interference to win.



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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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For those who are interested here is the (redacted) indictment against Paul Manafort and Richard Gates [PDF].

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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So the position of presidente is sort of like a king re pardons?

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
So the position of presidente is sort of like a king re pardons?

Kind of. Article II, §2 of the U.S. Constitution states, in part:

quote:
The President . . . shall have Power to grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment
So the main limitations are that the president can't pardon anyone who's being impeached, and can only pardon people for "Offences against the United States", meaning that the presidential pardon power does not extend to people charged with (or convicted of) crimes by individual states.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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LutheranChik
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# 9826

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But will.Manafort sing like a canary with Boris and Natasha waiting in the wings to help him on his way to an unfortunate accident? He doesn't really have a Witness Protection face or demeanor.

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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com

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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
But, if the Orange Pip does go for pre-emptive pardons, doesn't that just make them all look even more guilty? Including the Chief Pip?

As in 'the [gentleman] doth protest too much, methinks'.

IJ

"Looking guilty" doesn't seem to be a problem for this administration-- that ship sailed long ago. "Avoiding consequences" seems to be the priority, second only to "accumulating a lot of cash".

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

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Judge blocks Trump's transgender military ban.

[ 30. October 2017, 17:35: Message edited by: Martin60 ]

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Love wins

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Putin's Pup really isn't sitting in a sincere pumpkin patch, is he?

[Two face]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Putin's Pup really isn't sitting in a sincere pumpkin patch, is he?

[Two face]

The Great Trumpkin?

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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Maybe it's just me, but mass cremations to hide the death count doesn't exactly say "successful disaster relief" to me. And that's aside from the very unpleasant historical resonances.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Indeed - quite appalling. Surely, though, corpses have to be accounted for somehow, whether or not they're hurricane victims.

Meanwhile, the plot thickens (though 'it has nothing to do with the president'):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41808227

Not so much The Great Trumpkin, but more The Beginning To Look A Bit Naughty Trumpkin.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Meanwhile, the plot thickens (though 'it has nothing to do with the president'):

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41808227

A couple of points about the Papadopoulos plea bargain.
  • What Papadopoulos [plead guity to / was convicted of] is lying to the FBI
    -
  • What he lied about was the Russian government contacting him and offering him "dirt" on Hillary Clinton in the form of hacked e-mails
    -
  • The plea deal was reached on October 5 but only unsealed today, not coincidentally the day Manafort and Gates are indicted
    -
  • The lower bound for the recommended sentence agreed upon in the deal is zero years

It's that last point that sends a fairly clear message, and that message is "those who cooperate will be leniently treated, and those who wait will have to take their luck with a judge".

In other Papadopoulos, this seems significant:

quote:
He [Papadopoulos] was arrested on July 27. Papadopoulos indicated that he was willing to cooperate with Mueller's team, and his case was sealed after his arrest to give him time to do that. According to papers filed by his lawyer, Papadopoulos participated in multiple meetings with investigators and voluntarily turned over materials.

"Public disclosure of the defendant's initial appearance, however, would significantly undermine his ability to serve as a proactive cooperator," prosecutors wrote in the motion to seal. "In addition, public disclosure of defendant's arrest and the accompanying criminal charges may alert other subjects to the direction and status of the investigation."

I'm going to guess that "proactive cooperator" is lawyer-speak for "wearing a wire". I suspect others will reach the same conclusion and start trying to remember the details of every meeting they had with George Papadopoulos from July 27 through today.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
I’m going to guess that "proactive cooperator" is lawyer-speak for "wearing a wire". I suspect others will reach the same conclusion and start trying to remember the details of every meeting they had with George Papadopoulos from July 27 through today.

Let them squirm!

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Garden. Room. Walk

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