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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
In the meantime, Jeff Sessions is asking officials to look into whether a special prosecutor is needed to investigate the Clinton Foundation and Obama administration concerning a Russian nuclear energy agency acquisition of United States’ uranium.

The actual letter Sessions sent can be found here [PDF]. Ben Wittes of Lawfare has a twitter thread discussing two general possibilities of what Sessions is doing here. The tl;dr version (although it's not really that long) is:

  1. Sessions is caving to Trump to launch a politically motivated investigation of Trump's election opponent, something that's even more egregious when you take into consideration that Sessions is supposed to have recused himself from any investigation into the 2016 election.
    -or-
  2. Sessions is responding to specific requests [PDF] for a special counsel on certain matters by the House Committee he'll be testifying in front of today. This letter allows Sessions to say that "senior federal prosecutors" are looking into this and will make recommendations, which either he or Rosenstein will act on as appropriate. This avoids the unpleasantness of telling an oversight committee that they're a bunch of conspiracy mongers.

Whichever of these you consider more likely depends on your assessment of Sessions' character, but the text of the letter as written makes me lean towards interpretation #2.

As a side note, I'm not sure why a special counsel would be necessary to investigate either Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama. Special counsels are typically used for situations where the government investigates itself, particularly if it's investigating the Justice Department, the President, or any other government bureau or department which may be able to influence those normally tasked with investigating whatever is being investigated. (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?) Since Clinton and Obama are outside the government now, any investigation of them specifically shouldn't require a special counsel. This seems to be a case of trying to create a false equivalence. The idea seems to be that if the Republican president* has a special counsel investigating him and his associates, then there should be one checking out prominent Democrats too. [Roll Eyes]

[ 14. November 2017, 14:04: Message edited by: Crœsos ]

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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I feel an overwhelming impulse to apologize for the idiocy of our American government.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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And, wow. Moore is doomed. The New Yorker reports on his being banned from a local shopping mall. It seems his open accosting in the halls of teenaged girls was too much for the shoppers.
The memories of elderly male mall managers and security cops will (alas) have more weight than that of women who were 14 at the time.

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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You couldn't make it up. You really couldn't.

And, BTW, Brenda, please don't apologise for the idiocy of your 'government'. After all, on this side of the pond we have Boris Johnson....

How long, O Lord, how long......??

[Help]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Ohher
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# 18607

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
And, wow. Moore is doomed.

There's many a slip, as the old saying goes, twixt cup and lip.

1. It's too late to take Moore off the ballot.
2. The sheer volume of unnamed sources in the New Yorker article will render it suspect in supporters' eyes, even if they read that publication. (I'd love to drop into Gadsden's public library and see if (A) they subscribe and (B) if this issue is on display.)
3. Much of Alabama lies well outside of Gadsden and well inside the Bible Belt.

The real issue emerges only if Moore gets elected. The Republicans are not well-situated for preventing Moore from taking his seat on the basis of child molestation (credible but not proven). They have spent a year cooperating with a President who's made a practice (and admitted this) of barging in to teen (read: underage) models' dressing rooms for the stated purpose of ogling them.

The cognitive discongruence is about at snapping point, I think, but not for Moore. It's the Republicans who are coming face to face with doom, either way. They're damned if they seat him and damned if they don't.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Just as an aside, what on earth makes these hideous old men (or, in those days, hideous younger men) think they're God's gift to girls?

I include His Most Ugliness Gropo the Great in this category.

[Projectile]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Overweening ego and narcissism, mainly. In the case of Li'l Donny, he is on record denying he is old. (He is the oldest man ever elected president.) I suppose being in your mid-70s might not be considered old, if you were surrounded by 90 year olds, but who else would agree? He will believe he is young and hot until they shovel him under.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Overweening ego and narcissism, mainly. In the case of Li'l Donny, he is on record denying he is old. (He is the oldest man ever elected president.)

Second oldest. Reagan was older when re-elected in 1984. Trump is, however, the oldest man ever elected to a first term as president.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
And, wow. Moore is doomed. The New Yorker reports on his being banned from a local shopping mall. It seems his open accosting in the halls of teenaged girls was too much for the shoppers.
The memories of elderly male mall managers and security cops will (alas) have more weight than that of women who were 14 at the time.

If this is true (and I think it is--I'm just trying to stick with the Ship's policy to say "alleged"), what a sleazoid creep. Even Mitch McConnell said he believed the women. I think what may bring him down, or turn people's opinions, is that inscription he left in one girl's yearbook. Yet he said he never knew her.

The only thing I question--and maybe this is a regional difference: why were young girls hanging out at the YMCA? I spent time at the YWCA. It was for girls. It's possible there might have been some young boys in a class, but no grown men around. They might have gotten as far as the lobby, if they had a child there.

Maybe girls hung out *around* the YMCA mentioned, as a way to be around boys?

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Ohher
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# 18607

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I don't know about Gadsden, which has a population of roughly 36,000, but in my own city (around 45,000), there is no YWCA, only a YMCA. In my city, the Y serves everybody -- adults, kids, males, females, athletes, couch potatoes, everybody in between and/or outside of those particular categories. My state's biggest city, about a half-hour south of where I live, has a YWCA but no YMCA. I'm guessing the Y spreads its resources carefully in small towns.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Thanks, Ohher. [Smile]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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mousethief

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# 953

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Our local Y is completely omnisex. Indeed the only visible employees, other than the guy who cleans the men's locker room, are women.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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Latest on Moore: yesterday I spend the day in sackcloth and ashes after a letter was released in support of Moore, signed by 53 evangelical pastors.

Today we learned that the original letter was written prior to the allegations of sexual abuse, then was edited after signing by Moore's wife to make it appear that these pastors were sticking with him despite the allegations. Quite a bit of outrage from those signers.

Relieved that my evangelical brethren are not quite as far gone as I thought. Regretful that the bar is so very very low.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Any way to charge his wife with something for doing that?

[ 15. November 2017, 04:58: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Eutychus
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# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
Latest on Moore: yesterday I spend the day in sackcloth and ashes after a letter was released in support of Moore, signed by 53 evangelical pastors.

Today we learned that the original letter was written prior to the allegations of sexual abuse, then was edited after signing by Moore's wife to make it appear that these pastors were sticking with him despite the allegations. Quite a bit of outrage from those signers.

Do you have a link for that? It might be useful in persuading some evangelical brethren about the willingness of their political masters to distort the truth.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Do you have a link for that? It might be useful in persuading some evangelical brethren about the willingness of their political masters to distort the truth.

link

I suspect they'll just move to the next stage though, from 'man of God' to 'flawed vessel'.

[fixed link]

[ 15. November 2017, 08:44: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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Eutychus
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# 3081

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Thanks. I fixed the link because it was breaking the scroll lock for some people.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Yes, the Y in my area is for everybody, even though it is a YMCA. I have no idea if there is a separate YWCA anywhere.
Here a (free)
heartfelt cri de coeur proclaiming the death of Christianity. We got into bed with an orange toupeed Caesar, and got screwed.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Wow.

Preach it, Brother Miguel!

[Overused]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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Hmmm (some would say) -- Miguel de la Torre. Isn't that a Mexican name, eh?

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"It used to be that being crazy meant something. But not anymore – nowadays everybody's crazy!" – Charles Manson

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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O Heavens forfend!

A BAD HOMBRE dares to question the Holy Religion of Great America?

Is Outrage!

[Two face]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Gramps49
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# 16378

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And now six Democrats have formally filed articles of impeachment against the dafttweep, See here

Probably won't go far in this Congress. I think it is going to be a campaign issue next year, though.

In the meantime, he sends a tweet about the shooting in California, but he uses the same tweet he sent to the church in Texas. Don't even change the name of the town.

I see Sean Hannity has given Moore less than 24 hours, now to come up with a credible explanation about what happened 40 years ago; otherwise, Hannity is pulling his support. Bannon is also said to be reconsidering supporting Moore.

I really feel sorry for those people who destroyed their Keurig coffeemakers after Keurig stopped advertising on Hannity's program after Hannity continued to support Moore. Don't they look foolish now?

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Do you have a link for that? It might be useful in persuading some evangelical brethren about the willingness of their political masters to distort the truth.

link

I suspect they'll just move to the next stage though, from 'man of God' to 'flawed vessel'.

[fixed link]

What makes it much worse, IMHO, is that someone or other led Trump to a born-again decision--fairly early in the campaign process. I have no idea what it may mean to Trump. But, for people who supposedly believe in salvation, and that new Christians need to focus on the milk of the Gospel, not the meat...it's despicable to put a new Christian in the position of being their poster boy.

Blech.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
What makes it much worse, IMHO, is that someone or other led Trump to a born-again decision--fairly early in the campaign process. I have no idea what it may mean to Trump.

I have heard no such suggestion, even among the most ardent right-wing evangelicals. Unlike W, he is "our guy" for reasons very much other than any sort of conversion experience.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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It was in the news in 2015. James Dobson originally claimed it, then walked it back somewhat.

The article is about the walk-back; but there are links at the beginning to the original coverage. And if you do a web search on "Trump conversion", you get a lot of hits.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
It was in the news in 2015. James Dobson originally claimed it, then walked it back somewhat.

The article is about the walk-back; but there are links at the beginning to the original coverage. And if you do a web search on "Trump conversion", you get a lot of hits.

Yes, I remember that, which was my point-- Dobson originally claimed it (one of those "he seems like such a nice guy, not like those nasty liberals, so he must have had his come to Jesus moment") things, then had to walk it back, which leaves us with... no record of any discernible conversion experience. Then there was his infamous remark in 2015 about how he has never felt the need to ask God's forgiveness for anything.

So, again, no evidence of any conversion experience. So whatever the reasons that right-wing Christians thinks he's one of us, it's not cuz of that.

[ 15. November 2017, 19:50: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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cliffdweller--

Respectfully, you said you hadn't heard of anything like that. So I explained.

And I do remember about not asking God for forgiveness. From what I've seen, I suspect he doesn't get the concept at all.

[Angel]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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He name calls the dictator-with-nukes of North Korea in ways that got us sent to the hallway in grade 4. He believes Putin because he asked him repeatedly, except Putin says he didn't ask. Nice that China's Xi and Philippines Duerte fluffed him up, knowing that he likes peacocking. There has to be some cursing ritual available somewhere. Astrology, killed chicken entrails, anything.
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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
cliffdweller--

Respectfully, you said you hadn't heard of anything like that. So I explained.

Yes, I should have clarified that none had been sustained, and all pretense of such long ago dropped. Thanks for the corrective.

[ 15. November 2017, 20:12: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
He name calls the dictator-with-nukes of North Korea in ways that got us sent to the hallway in grade 4. He believes Putin because he asked him repeatedly, except Putin says he didn't ask. Nice that China's Xi and Philippines Duerte fluffed him up, knowing that he likes peacocking. There has to be some cursing ritual available somewhere. Astrology, killed chicken entrails, anything.

I have a British friend who is a noted pagan. I urged her to start a cursing service; if she set a Paypal account she'd get a lot of American custom.

More amusingly, here is a superb example of his juvenile taunting coming back to bite Lyin' Don in the hind end.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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The trouble with curses is that they can often rebound onto the curser, as well as affecting the cursee.

However, cursing Gropo the Great, for instance, so that his hair falls out entirely would not affect me adversely. I gave up on hair a few years ago...

So, where did I put that grimoire? A nice one, too, bound up in human skin and all, got up regardless.

[Two face]

Yes, yes, I know - ITTWACW.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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From what I've heard, magic is supposed to come back to you three fold. So if you curse someone...

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Would wishing him "Treason's Greetings" be a curse?
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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O no - entirely apposite, I would think...

[Snigger]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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This will make you laugh, a (free) reference to the Roy Moore Senate race in Georgia. The election isn't until Dec. 12, so there should be vast fields for comedy between now and then. Saturday Night Live must be in bliss.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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[Killing me]

One can only hope and pray that the fall of the egregious Mr. Moore is spectacular and aweful.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
From what I've heard, magic is supposed to come back to you three fold. So if you curse someone...

(looking around accusingly) Ok, 'fess up. Who was it who cursed Trump in the name of America???

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

Posts: 11087 | From: a small canyon overlooking the city | Registered: Jan 2008  |  IP: Logged
RuthW

liberal "peace first" hankie squeezer
# 13

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[Hangs head in shame.]
Posts: 24416 | From: La La Land | Registered: Apr 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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This is satire, and thus painful.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Indeed....but perhaps it highlights just how low Great America has sunk (I know, I know - other countries are just as bad).

That, I guess, is the purpose of satire, however painful.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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The really -original- ways to resist are particularly admirable. These people are crowd-funding a ploy to endlessly delay the wall on the Mexico border. Or I should say they -were- crowd-funding it, since it's sold out. I only heard about it yesterday, too, so they have not lacked for enthusiastic participants.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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Excellent stuff, Brenda! Great link. Highly enjoyed it. Keep up the good work, youse all! [Yipee]

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Meanwhile, this Spitting Image puppet version of The Great American Toilet (see Brenda's link) has been made.

Can't see much difference between the puppet and the real Gropo.... [Paranoid]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 9180 | From: Passing The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Anyone going to hunt elephants?

Maybe you can pay for it with your HUUUUUUGE tax cuts. That are really tax cuts for corporations. Who the recent papers leak showed corporations hide their funds offshore so they don't pay tax.

On the tax "reform", why do some states give a rebate on state taxes paid (which will go also). I am sure it helps, but it seems odd to me (we have something similar with private health insurance). Why not reduce state tax? Sorry...I may be being simplistic.

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
I really feel sorry for those people who destroyed their Keurig coffeemakers after Keurig stopped advertising on Hannity's program after Hannity continued to support Moore. Don't they look foolish now?

They seriously did that?? Sound like Rush Limbaugh's "Ditto-heads".

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17991 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Re elephants:

Heard on NPR today about a woman working to save African elephants. She's a former US intelligence officer, special ops, and she's using her skills. (Tracking poachers, I think.) Her family is there with her.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17991 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Interesting. Will try and find that.
Thanks GK!

quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
I really feel sorry for those people who destroyed their Keurig coffeemakers after Keurig stopped advertising on Hannity's program after Hannity continued to support Moore. Don't they look foolish now?

They seriously did that?? Sound like Rush Limbaugh's "Ditto-heads".
Behold! (starts around 3:50)

[ 18. November 2017, 06:17: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Ian--

Thanks for the link about Keurig. I'm looking for a link for the elephant story I mentioned. I had my local NPR station on all day, and they have some shows from other sources. So it may take a little time to find. Will post when I do.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17991 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Re elephants:

Ok, I found it! [Smile] NPR runs the audio of the "PBS Newshour", and that's where I heard it, and that made it a little tricky to track down.

"How lessons from fighting terrorism are saving elephants in Kenya" (PBS).

Choice of transcript, audio, and video.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17991 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Thanks so much!
Posts: 7558 | From: Albury, Australia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged



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