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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Marvin the Martian:
Meh. Fancy Cordon Bleu stuff is all well and good, but sometimes you just want a cheeseburger and fries.
Yup. This isn't anything new. Made a news splash when he was elected. He simply prefers fast food. And chocolate cake.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
I just want everyone to know that anything incriminating or really stupid I appear to have written on this thread was actually written by trumpy's lawyer.
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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Two very critical gaps in the Trump administration is the diplomatic corps and the elite military.
We generally have 188 Ambassadorships. Trump has appointed only 60 ambassadors, leaving many critical posts unfilled. On top of that Tillerson has put a hiring freeze on the rest of the foreign service and he does not seem to be ready to lift the freeze. Now Colin Power and Madalene Albrecht, former Secretary of States, are expressing concern about how weak the service has become.
We are also seeing the military being ripped apart at the seams. Look at the list of accidents that the 7th Fleet has had in the past year. While all the accidents have been found to be the fault of the commanding officers, they point to the systemic problems of the fleet being overextended and the personnel are fatigued.
Also, our elite forces are coming apart. There have been several situations where we have lost servicemen in the field and they are not being replaced fast enough.
And now Trump wants to undo the National Monuments.
How long, oh Lord? How Long?
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
This isn't anything new. Made a news splash when he was elected. He simply prefers fast food. And chocolate cake.
And TWO scoops of ice cream! (I guess that's typical of a three-year-old, which he is mentally and emotionally.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
On top of that Tillerson has put a hiring freeze on the rest of the foreign service and he does not seem to be ready to lift the freeze.
Is this to save money? Or is a point being made about such positions (i.e. that they are irrelevant)? Or something else?
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
First and foremost, it will (again) pander to his base by cutting back on the useless, bloated Deep State (as they see it).
To me it also embodies his isolationism. It also weakens the executive and thus strengthens the presidency.
In the meantime, it's putting a brake on people acquiring skills and knowhow in foreign diplomacy which will be hard to make up. It's sobering and terrifying to see just how quickly well-established institutions and nations can be trashed.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Sometimes, I think T is simply trying to undo everything in gov't--particularly anything Obama did, but basically everything.
When he was little, he reportedly had a habit of kicking down other kids' block creations. This might be the same thing.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
This isn't anything new. Made a news splash when he was elected. He simply prefers fast food. And chocolate cake.
And TWO scoops of ice cream! (I guess that's typical of a three-year-old, which he is mentally and emotionally.)
Heart attack in the making at his age.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
His junk-food habit should be encouraged.
The way to a man's heart is through his stomach.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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The Scrumpmeister
Ship’s Taverner
# 5638
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Posted
Well, we had this recently.
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If Christ is not fully human, humankind is not fully saved. - St John of Saint-Denis
Posts: 14741 | From: Greater Manchester, UK | Registered: Mar 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Is Trump using Richard Nixon's playbook?
I think this has been posted before, but here's a piece by Art Buchwald that was published, amongst other places, in the Reno Gazette-Journal on July 12, 1973.
[ 05. December 2017, 12:49: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
On top of that Tillerson has put a hiring freeze on the rest of the foreign service and he does not seem to be ready to lift the freeze.
Is this to save money? Or is a point being made about such positions (i.e. that they are irrelevant)? Or something else?
Oh, this one is easy. You cannot be appointed to anything by this administration, not so much as dog catcher, if you have ever said anything denigrating Lyin' Don. (He never ever forgives a slight.) Since this does let out a substantial swathe of Americans, the pool of possibles is already very small. On top of that, the desire to clamber onto the Titanic and help rearrange the deck chairs is, understandably, weak if you have the sense God gave a goat. This is how they ge\ot all those weirdos and cranks in -- because that's who was at the bottom of the barrel.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Drat, missed the edit window. I wanted to add a new and terrifying link. This is a free click and was referred to me by a friend of a Jewish friend, who adds, "'The president would like to start his own private Intelligence (haha) network. He could call them cool like "Super Spies" or SS for short.'
And the hair quite literally rises on the back of my neck."
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Meanwhile, Mueller takes direct aim at the POTUS...is it happening...?
I've long suspected that this would all come down to Trump's questionable finances. His uncreditworthiness is the perfect avenue for leverage.
As was said in another presidential scandal, follow the money.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Oh, I agree. See also Al Capone.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
As indicated by my ![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif) icon above, I think that's conspiracy theorist territory myself.
Meanwhile, Mueller takes direct aim at the POTUS...is it happening...?
Nothing's going to happen. Mueller is going to be fired any day now by some Trump lackey at Justice, on the basis that "this has nothing to do with Russia," "bias," and "look what happened to the stock market when ABC ran the false report on Friday, I can't let this witch hunt destroy the economy."
And the GOP will do shit all about it.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
Nothing's going to happen. Mueller is going to be fired any day now by some Trump lackey at Justice, on the basis that "this has nothing to do with Russia," "bias," and "look what happened to the stock market when ABC ran the false report on Friday, I can't let this witch hunt destroy the economy."
And the GOP will do shit all about it.
I think something may happen. Deutsche Welle report: Representative Maxine Waters of California and other Democrats have asked whether the bank's loans to Trump, made years before he ran for president, were in any way connected to Russia." trumpy borrowed $300million and Deutsche Bank owns half of his debt. The information disclosure will either happen now, or it will happen later.
Meanwhile, set the PVR record "All the President's Men", the movie about another one of these POTUSES** and being bad.
*is the plural of POTUS, POTUSES or POTI? Thinking hippopotamus and hippopotami.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Weeks after pulling support and money from accused child predator Roy Moore, the RNC is back to supporting him as of this morning.
Which is another clear example of why nothing is going to happen to Trump.
These people and the people who vote them into office DO NOT GIVE A SHIT about optics. And they have been served well by that attitude so far. They accepted the racist rapist in 2016, and it got them the White house, majorities in both sides of Congress, and a Supreme Court justice. They have no reason to pick a fight with Trump if he ends the investigation, and they won't.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
One day, in the not-too-distant future, he will DIE.
And will be answerable to a Higher Tribunal (as will we all).
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I can't believe Mueller doesn't have some form of dead man's handle in place against the eventuality of him being fired.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
Fancy people don't agree to plea agreements unless the prosecutor has confidence that the potential witness has substantial, credible and reliable evidence implicate higher ups in the criminal enterprise in illegal behaviour. Someone else is going to be arrested and/or cop a plea.
Interesting that in House of Cards (Netflix series) Kevin Spacey is out due to sexual harassment/assault. Robin Wright is announced as being the focus of the last season. While art (if netflix is art, which is debatable) if it is of any use (also debatable) usually reflects society, perhaps the reflection here is distorted a bit. I'm putting my money on Ivanka as the candidate for the party of her daddy in your next election. No more ridiculous than what we've already seen in this, season one.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I hope they use orange paint on the walls of his prison cell. Then he can pretend he isn't there at all, coz he'd be invisible...
You really couldn't make it up.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
If even the Westboro Baptist Church can't tolerate you any more, then you are pretty bad.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
If even the Westboro Baptist Church can't tolerate you any more, then you are pretty bad.
Given that Westboro Baptist doesn't seem able to tolerate anyone outside the confines of their cult, I don't think this demonstrates anything one way or the other.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
Is Trump using Richard Nixon's playbook?
I think this has been posted before, but here's a piece by Art Buchwald that was published, amongst other places, in the Reno Gazette-Journal on July 12, 1973.
Thanks for this. I had trouble reading that photocopy, so I dug up a text copy. Here's a text version (Blind Dive).
NOTE: that site is new to me, and there's no "About". Seems to be someone's anti-Trump site.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
So this Jerusalem is the capital business seems to be getting a lot of noise.
While the bleatings of ME potentates who can hardly claim to be democratic doesn't bother me much tbh, the impact on the peace process does. As does the symbolism.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Reading another board suggests that in the US a) this move is not simply being supported by con-evos b) outside these boards, support by Americans for this move appears to be the default opinion. Am I completely wrong about this?
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Re Jerusalem:
My comments from the previous page.
I doubt that most Americans have much of an interest, and most probably don't really know anything about the situation.
Fund/evo folks, and anyone else of an end-times bent, may well think it's a good idea...if only to get things moving, so the rapture and/or 2nd coming happen, and they can be free of this current world.
I think it's stupid and dangerous for the US to declare Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. It will trigger more trouble for Israel. And moving the US consulate/embassy from Tel Aviv to Jerusalem is more of the same. AND it endangers everyone involved.
IIRC, Saudi Arabia and Jordan have both said this would be a bad idea.
If T were a religious man, I'd been concerned that he's *trying* to bring on the end times--rather like those people who've taken roan/red cattle to Jerusalem to fulfill a prophecy. Of course, he might have people whispering suggestions to him.
T would be interesting casting as the anti-Christ. Rather than slick, suave, smart, and possibly directly of the devil, T is broken, crazy, barely functional, and just a messed-up human being.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
My question here is not about Trump but about the default perception of the rights and wrongs of Jerusalem as Israel's capital Stateside. I've asked it again in another thread.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Eutychus--
FWIW: I did address that at the beginning of my post.
![[Angel]](graemlins/angel.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
If even the Westboro Baptist Church can't tolerate you any more, then you are pretty bad.
One phrase from the linked-to report caught my attention:
quote:
your refusal to repent of your proud sin
So all he has to do is "repent of his proud sin" and he'll be back on Westboro's A list. He's certainly proud of his sins, that's for sure.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
AFAIK, Westboro isn't really in the business of giving second chances.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
So far as I can see the issue of Jerusalem is a matter of indifference to most Americans. Lyin' Don says it was a campaign promise. My circle of acquaintance suggests that it's either a piece of meat thrown to his base, =or= that Vladimir Putin is using his sock puppet again. IMO these are not mutually exclusive.
In slightly different news this is sure to enrage him. We're sure to have a surly tweet soon.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
In slightly different news this is sure to enrage him. We're sure to have a surly tweet soon.
I was thrilled with their decision. But I'm sure Trump will continue to maintain that he was really their first choice and turned them down.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
Chuck Schumer is in favor of the Jerusalem move as well. He and Ted Cruz have worked hand in hand on this in the past.
There are also quite a few Democrats in Congress who have backed bills to refuse federal money and contracts to individuals and companies backing boycott / divest.
I don’t doubt that Trump is acting at the behest of the Bannon-wing here, but this one appeals to lots of folks across the board.
I tend to lean towards “this is more provocative than helpful” on this one, fwiw.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
My question here is not about Trump but about the default perception of the rights and wrongs of Jerusalem as Israel's capital Stateside. I've asked it again in another thread.
Most Americans are indifferent, but it's something of a fetish object for those on the further reaches of the American right, particularly the Christianist and anti-Islamic factions. (Those are not necessarily the same people.)
Here's the (partial) opinion of one American blogger who belongs to neither of those groups.
quote:
It is absolutely silly to recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital and/or move the US Embassy to Israel to Jerusalem in exchange for nothing. It is poor strategy, it is bad policy, it is a pointless and ultimately self defeating tactic, and it is diplomatically backwards. The reason the US hasn’t moved it’s embassy to Israel to Jerusalem and/or recognize Jerusalem as Israel’s capital isn’t just the security concerns. It is because either of these potential changes in US policy are most effectively used as motivational carrots to cajole the Israelis into negotiating in, if not good faith, then better faith. Unilaterally giving these to the Israelis removes very valuable and effective leverage from the US’s diplomatic tool kit.
Another great plan from the master negotiator who [ghost] wrote The Art of the Deal.
[ 06. December 2017, 14:20: Message edited by: Crœsos ]
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
In slightly different news this is sure to enrage him. We're sure to have a surly tweet soon.
Bully for Time magazine! That sends a message!
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
In slightly different news this is sure to enrage him. We're sure to have a surly tweet soon.
Bully for Time magazine! That sends a message!
A few weeks ago a friend sent me a mock-up of a TIME Person of the Year cover with Robert Mueller. That would have been great, but this is even better. Well done, TIME! (I also heard that the announcement was made on the Today Show -- which just fired co-host Matt Laurer for sexual abuse.)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Taylor Swift
The Economist ran a piece lately about how her playbook mirrored Trump's - build a diehard core fanbase, continue extremely personal vendettas, stay mute on racism...
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Well, The Crawling Chaos has duly announced to the World that Jerusalem is Israel's capital, according to the BBC.
No doubt he will soon be Tweeting the date and time of Armageddon.
Are the End Times upon us, do you think?
![[Help]](graemlins/help.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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apostate630
Apprentice
# 15425
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Posted
Somebody has probably pointed out this already.
Trump's pissing contest with Kim Jong Un, and his moving the US embassy to Jerusalem, are steps designed specifically to trigger war, something straight out of Steve Bannon's playbook.
" Bannon doesn’t just believe that we are in an existential X288MB with Islam or with China. It seems he wants to exacerbate those conflicts into a new world war. As a believer in Strauss and Howe’s theory of history, Bannon fantasizes that he can use that cataclysm to forge a completely new order. He is now in a position to make that a reality."
https://www.thenation.com/article/steve-bannon-wants-to-start-world-war-iii/
Posts: 46 | From: Ohio | Registered: Jan 2010
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apostate630
Apprentice
# 15425
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Posted
". . . an existential WAR with Islam and with China."
Posts: 46 | From: Ohio | Registered: Jan 2010
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Hedgehog
Ship's Shortstop
# 14125
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Posted
I found X288MB to be far more existential....
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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'
Posts: 2740 | From: Delaware, USA | Registered: Sep 2008
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
In slightly different news this is sure to enrage him. We're sure to have a surly tweet soon.
Bully for Time magazine! That sends a message!
Amen!! ![[Yipee]](graemlins/spin.gif)
I've been hoping he'd say something self-incriminating, in response to all the #metoo furor and firings. Like maybe "hey, what's the big deal? I did that sort of stuff, and no one complained". Maybe not being on the cover will push him over the edge a bit?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
What is "X288MB", please?
I looked it up, but only found references to computer files and single-grade engine oils!
![[Ultra confused]](graemlins/confused2.gif)
Is it L33T code or something? Though I would think that would pop up.
Thx.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
| IP: Logged
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Printer-friendly view
