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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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I hope he doesn’t mention how Hitler didn’t sink to using chemical weapons, and how Jews were taken to “holocaust centers.”

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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I'm trying to remember...didn't someone endeavor to teach T something, after one of his gaffes? Maybe took him to the Holocaust Museum in DC, after the remarks you quoted. IIRC, he said afterward that he had earned something.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Enoch
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# 14322

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quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
... Totally coincidentally, the White House is examining ethics rules which would prohibit Special Counsel Mueller from investigating Kushner (and Manafort, so it's a twofer). ...

Croesus, what's a 'twofer' please?

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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lilBuddha
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# 14333

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
... Totally coincidentally, the White House is examining ethics rules which would prohibit Special Counsel Mueller from investigating Kushner (and Manafort, so it's a twofer). ...

Croesus, what's a 'twofer' please?
Two for one.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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It's Sunday-- a day when we celebrate the resurrection, a day for hope in the midst of darkness. Ultimately, our hope is in Christ and today I'll remember that.

But for those of us not quite ready to give up on this world, I offer this more moral hope: remembering the back story of our two former FBI directors

Mr. Cliffdweller & I decided on Tom Hanks & Liam Neesen to play Comey and Mueller in the upcoming spy thriller. Melissa McCarthy plays comic relief Spicer, hiding among the bushes, rushing to and from press briefings muttering "I hate my life I hate my life I hate my life..."

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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Franklin Graham on his support for Donald Trump. He believes that Lyin' Don is God's perfect choice.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Zappa
Ship's Wake
# 8433

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Because God loves lying predators

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shameless self promotion - because I think it's worth it
and mayhap this too: http://broken-moments.blogspot.co.nz/

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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When I was in Israel in 2006, I was alarmed and amused by how much of the place had donation plaques on it. We have plaques on seats in our concert hall, but usually places and plaques are named in honor of people, not because they paid for it. An exception is the Murdoch family, who splash their name all over the place.

Anyway, I needed to go to the toilet at Yad Vashem and was alarmed and exceedingly amused to see that the toilet cubicles each bore a plaque.

These days, now that I am wise, I wonder whether having your name there is something of a cry of victory over death, or indeed a memorial to the dead, and that the toilets at Yad Vashem are indeed suitable places for memory.

My instinctive reaction to plaques and naming is that they are shameful boasts.

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I dish it out, but I can't take it.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Franklin Graham on his support for Donald Trump. He believes that Lyin' Don is God's perfect choice.

If and when Franklin Graham moves into the house next door in heaven, I will realize I was actually sent to hell.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
When I was in Israel in 2006, I was alarmed and amused by how much of the place had donation plaques on it. We have plaques on seats in our concert hall, but usually places and plaques are named in honor of people, not because they paid for it.

I've seen several examples of the memorial brick phenomenon in this country. Personally I wouldn't want someone stepping on my name.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Franklin Graham on his support for Donald Trump. He believes that Lyin' Don is God's perfect choice.

Now, he said, there’s "no question" that God is supporting Trump, Graham said.

I thought we were over the "God on my side, the Devil on theirs" statements...seemingly not. [Disappointed]

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Jay-Emm
Shipmate
# 11411

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Franklin Graham on his support for Donald Trump. He believes that Lyin' Don is God's perfect choice.

Now, he said, there’s "no question" that God is supporting Trump, Graham said.

I thought we were over the "God on my side, the Devil on theirs" statements...seemingly not. [Disappointed]

Like he supported Sennacherib??

[wow spell checker had it]
We had the "God's got a plan"* brexiteers (which I believe the predicate, but see no connection to the conclusion. And also aware one plan involved learning our lesson for 40 years.

*there was also another bit better thought out variant, although it was still a bit selectively planned.

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Sioni Sais
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# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Franklin Graham on his support for Donald Trump. He believes that Lyin' Don is God's perfect choice.

As Zappa outlined, it is an example of His mercy and forgiveness. Twice over.

--------------------
"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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chris stiles
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# 12641

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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
As Zappa outlined, it is an example of His mercy and forgiveness. Twice over.

I think among the true believers the thinking has moved from 'He's a baby Christian' to 'He is an imperfect vessel, but like Cyrus is chosen by God'
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Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
As Zappa outlined, it is an example of His mercy and forgiveness. Twice over.

I think among the true believers the thinking has moved from 'He's a baby Christian' to 'He is an imperfect vessel, but like Cyrus is chosen by God'
I liked Cyrus. IIRC, he was much more humble, knew that he didn't know much, and was willing to learn. Qualifications that T doesn't seem to have. And my guess is Cyrus was much more functional.

And, frankly, that kind of "chosen by God" assertion is wayyy too much to put on a "baby Christian". IMNSHO, they're using him.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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Between "he's a baby Christian" (hello? the man's 70 years old, what's he been at the past seven decades?) and "he's a flawed vessel" you have all the mealy-mouthed excuses you need to just drop the reins and let him gallop off into whatever lunacy you like.
This is not Christian witness. The salt has lost its savor, and is fit only to be tossed out. [Projectile]

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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cliffdweller
Shipmate
# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
As Zappa outlined, it is an example of His mercy and forgiveness. Twice over.

I think among the true believers the thinking has moved from 'He's a baby Christian' to 'He is an imperfect vessel, but like Cyrus is chosen by God'
If I were inclined to that sort of Calvinist fatalism, I would definitely see him more Nebuchadnezzar. Which means the unfairly maligned Rev. Wright was correct: God has judged America, and 45 is the divine retribution.

[ 22. May 2017, 14:58: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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I fear that he is rather the judgment upon the Church. We, along with the GOP, are in line to lose an entire generation. People like Graham will ensure that people look at a church and see a loathsome orange politician.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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More evangelical explanations. The ever-repulsive Jim Bakker says that this is the beginning of the Apocalypse, because God's miracle was Lyin' Don's election. But the best one is the guy saying that women marchers are witches. I probably should do him a pussyhat.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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quetzalcoatl
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# 16740

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But what would less nutty Christians say about Trump? I notice the phrase 'the judgment upon the Church', but would that also mean a judgment upon the US? That's also a bit nutty, isn't it?

I suppose there is a neutral position, that God has not been involved. Is that kosher?

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no path

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Not sure how well-thought out this is, probably not very, but I tend to take the view everything happens with God's implicit 'okay' but it does not necessarily mean it's His will or sign of favour.

Does God care if Football Team A beats Football Team B? Are A more pious, more worthy of favour?

Switching countries, if both major parties delight in telling us they will continue to lock up refugees on remote Pacific isles, I can't imagine God is too impressed with either one of them (and for some reason won't set Parliament House alight with lightning). Yet they continue to get in...

As I said, possibly half-formed. And possibly problematic. I tend to see poor political leaders as a judgement on us than them; we (in the general sense) elected them, or we (society) allowed the conditions to exist where they were elected.

[ 22. May 2017, 21:02: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Sorry, to clear up my last paragraph.

Has society failed Trump voters through lack of education, employment, security, etc? That is my charitable view.

But the less charitable view, which I can't escape from given T's comments and actions before the election, is that there are some racists and sexists, perhaps many, who voted for him. So perhaps my looking at a judgement on us was wrong now I ponder.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Sure, politicians are judgement upon us. Also AIDS / HIV, drones strikes killing the wrong people, nipples on men, mosquitos, the dog eating your homework, rapes, murders and bed bugs. trumpy might be many things, but he's no tool of God. Neither was Charles Manson nor Jack the Ripper. For a tool of God, maybe you want Pence, that Qtip headed cherry lipped vacant staring crackpot. [Help]

--------------------
Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Ah...good points. Did not think through the consequences.

[Though I still remain pissed people are dying of treatable diseases...perhaps judgement falls on the drug companies...]

How is quetzalcoatl's interesting, to me, question answered, then? Do things happen without God's implicit/explicit okay? How far can you take it? If this is suited to a new thread let me know.

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Martin60
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# 368

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OK, Saudi (Gulf odds and sods, Turkey) Sonny, good, Iran (Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, Yemen) Cher, bad. How? Both back insurrections bringing down slaughter. So Christians should back the good, right?

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Love wins

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Ian--

Personally, I'd prefer the "where is God when bad things happen, and does God send them" discussion spun off into another thread. IMHO, it's getting in the way here. And, based on past theodicy threads, the discussion would likely be both wide-reaching and intense.

FWIW.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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cliffdweller
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# 13338

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
More evangelical explanations. The ever-repulsive Jim Bakker says that this is the beginning of the Apocalypse, because God's miracle was Lyin' Don's election.

I'm wondering if Rev. Jim is right, just not in the way he thinks. I've wondered that ever since I preached the Sunday before the election, and the lectionary handed me this:

quote:
2Th. 2:1-4, 11: Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

...For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie

quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
But the best one is the guy saying that women marchers are witches. I probably should do him a pussyhat.

Please please please!!! [Axe murder]

[ 22. May 2017, 23:27: Message edited by: cliffdweller ]

--------------------
"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
But what would less nutty Christians say about Trump? I notice the phrase 'the judgment upon the Church', but would that also mean a judgment upon the US? That's also a bit nutty, isn't it?

I suppose there is a neutral position, that God has not been involved. Is that kosher?

There's a fourth (fifth? I dunno) position which holds that yes, Trump is a judgement on us, in exactly the same way that failing an exam is a judgement on the student who refused to study.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
For a tool of God, maybe you want Pence, that Qtip headed cherry lipped vacant staring crackpot. [Help]

He's a tool all right. But a tool of God? Maybe in the sense in which Nebuchadnezzar was a tool of God.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by cliffdweller:
I'm wondering if Rev. Jim is right, just not in the way he thinks. I've wondered that ever since I preached the Sunday before the election, and the lectionary handed me this:

quote:
2Th. 2:1-4, 11: Concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our being gathered to him, we ask you, brothers, not to become easily unsettled or alarmed by some prophecy, report or letter supposed to have come from us, saying that the day of the Lord has already come. Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for [that day will not come] until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

...For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie


As discussed at length on the Rapture thread, I incline to the "eschatology as a series of contractions" theory in which much like the contractions of childbirth, the same signs recur throughout history many times before actually producing the eschaton.

On this reading I think Trump certainly fits the bill as a man of lawlessness: an example of a type.

(On further reflection, though, Brenda's pussyhats might go some way to explaining all those references to strange many-horned beasts...)

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One has to take part. Scary as it is. - Martin60
Jerusalem is a city without walls

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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mt--

quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
For a tool of God, maybe you want Pence, that Qtip headed cherry lipped vacant staring crackpot. [Help]

He's a tool all right. But a tool of God? Maybe in the sense in which Nebuchadnezzar was a tool of God.
Does that mean that God is going to play graffiti artist again, and write on the wall? Will She be arrested?

(Hope I'm remembering the right story!)

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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It was Belshazzar who got the graffiti, but your point still stands!

Mind you, I thought Pussygrabber had already been weighed in the balance, and found wanting.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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BF--

Thanks for correcting which story. [Smile]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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My pleasure.

For a rousing musical depiction of the story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7eiwPxV-D4

BTW, Willard White would make an imposing President, only he's British...

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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John Holding

Coffee and Cognac
# 158

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Someone, Pyx_e I think, once used as a tagline:
We are all tools in the hand of God: SOme of us are bigger tools than others.

Somehow that seemed to me to be to the point.

JOhn

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
For a rousing musical depiction of the story:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7eiwPxV-D4

As opposed to the story of Nebuchadnezzar?
[Smile]

[ 23. May 2017, 16:30: Message edited by: Pigwidgeon ]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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[Killing me]

Thanks for that....

Or, as my mother once told me (I know not why);

'Nebuchadnezzar, the King of the Jews, (?)
Sold his wife for a pair of shoes.
When the shoes began to wear,
Nebuchadnezzar began to swear.'

I'll get me coat.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8898 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597

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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
[Killing me]

Thanks for that....

Or, as my mother once told me (I know not why);

'Nebuchadnezzar, the King of the Jews, (?)
Sold his wife for a pair of shoes.
When the shoes began to wear,
Nebuchadnezzar began to swear.'

I'll get me coat.

IJ

I heard the exact same poem from my father. (Born and raised in western Canada, but his parents had both immigrated from Scotland as children.)
Posts: 6330 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Well, there's True Culture for you - transcends all boundaries!

IJ

--------------------
The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

Posts: 8898 | From: With The Glums At The Bus Stop | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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For a man who tried a Muslim ban, he had no problem selling them $110 billion of weapons to an extremist Islamic country (Saudi Arabia). What could possibly go wrong as Saudi and Iran continue their proxy war in Yemen? Though this isn't just trumpy. It is a continuation of historical, many decades long American policy in the region. Soaked in blood. Creating more hatred for coming decades which makes for even more anti-Americanism. Does anyone understand why an educated Saudi living abroad might consider terror against America now? How about Iran, which has a progressive leadership and a very young population. Now both sides will hate America more. I'd weep if I had any more tears left after Manchester.

But no-one cares about geography and geopolitical problems, and this war weapons deal will make America great again by providing good jobs. Disgracefull.

[ 24. May 2017, 00:57: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

Posts: 10919 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Doone
Shipmate
# 18470

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
For a man who tried a Muslim ban, he had no problem selling them $110 billion of weapons to an extremist Islamic country (Saudi Arabia). What could possibly go wrong as Saudi and Iran continue their proxy war in Yemen? Though this isn't just trumpy. It is a continuation of historical, many decades long American policy in the region. Soaked in blood. Creating more hatred for coming decades which makes for even more anti-Americanism. Does anyone understand why an educated Saudi living abroad might consider terror against America now? How about Iran, which has a progressive leadership and a very young population. Now both sides will hate America more. I'd weep if I had any more tears left after Manchester.

But no-one cares about geography and geopolitical problems, and this war weapons deal will make America great again by providing good jobs. Disgracefull.

This [Tear]
Posts: 2199 | From: UK | Registered: Sep 2015  |  IP: Logged
Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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Trump reckons that Belgium is a beautiful city. One step up from the 'hell hole' he previously called it?

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Garden. Room. Walk

Posts: 12594 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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A good (and free click) analysis of how Drump thinks of the world.

--------------------
Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5470 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378

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Oops again, even though it is the worst kept secret you never admit that there are two nuclear subs off the North Korea coast

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-northkorea-missiles-submarines-idUSKBN18K15Y

Oops number three: You don't hire a lawyer who also represents the second largest Russian Bank to represent you to fight the reports about your collusion with Russia

http://www.newsweek.com/trump-marc-kasowitz-private-lawyer-russia-probe-investigation-comey-flynn-614438

And has everyone seen Melina slapping Trump's hand away when they arrive at Ben Gurion Airport? She also refused his hand when they arrive at Rome.

http://www.newsweek.com/melania-trump-hand-hold-president-donald-614300

[ 24. May 2017, 23:53: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

Posts: 1947 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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Unsurprising. We all know where that hand has been.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

Posts: 5470 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014  |  IP: Logged
Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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And none more so than the bimbo in chief.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

Posts: 10237 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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He also neglected to shake Bibi's hand.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

Posts: 63000 | From: Ecotopia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Aijalon
Shipmate
# 18777

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Yes, his hand.... and for that reason I have coined the phrase - "Make America grope again". I know I know, I'm brilliant.

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God gave you free will so you could give it back.

Posts: 200 | From: Kansas City | Registered: May 2017  |  IP: Logged
mr cheesy
Shipmate
# 3330

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He's been having an interesting time at the NATO summit. Elbowing his way past leaders to stand at the front, then lecturing them that they "owe the US" money.

Whilst it might be true that other countries should be contributing more (although even that seems in dispute), it seems fairly clear that nobody owes back-payments to the USA.

--------------------
arse

Posts: 9940 | Registered: Sep 2002  |  IP: Logged
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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There is little dispute that the general agreement is 2% GDP for member states, and that there are 4 that meet that obligation.

The US nearly doubles that contribution.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

Posts: 1392 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged



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