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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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From the Post, an analysis of Crooked Don's parrotting behavior. He'll agree with anything anyone says to him apparently never noticing his self contradiction from one instant to the next.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Gramps49
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# 16378

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And the Saudis and Chinese have learned the best way to deal with him is to flatter him and he will agree to anything they propose.

Deflect was not the best word of choice. I had only heard a snippet of the conversation on the radio and did not see the full video until later.

One of his gestures you see more and more when he is in conversation is him having his arms folded tightly across his chest. It suggests defensiveness and even hostility (notice how grim he looks--I just don't think he knows how to smile). When scientists have studied people with crossed arms sitting in a lecture, they have found the people retain 40% less than if they had been sitting with open arms. With Drump, I get the distinct impression he is retaining even less.

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Yeah, that's our Govt's strategy too. They are desperately trying to claw back the ground they lost with the refugee swap. I doubt the revelation about Alex Downer's session with George Panadopolous (?) will have helped. He still hasn't appointed an ambassador to Australia.

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Human

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Crœsos
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# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Now Drump is suing Fusion-GPS for defamation. Big problem: there will be a discovery phase (meaning Trump would have to testify under oath).

Stay tuned.

Not quite. Trump's personal attorney, Michael Cohen, is suing Buzzfeed for publishing the Steele dossier (which was prepared by Fusion-GPS). He claims that he has been defamed by the inclusion of his name in the Steele dossier when he personally has no connections to Russia. In short, he's suing on his own behalf, not on Trump's. It also seems like the kind of suit that will be summarily dismissed.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Calling other countries "shitholes".

Stay classy.

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Augustine the Aleut
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# 1472

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Yeah, that's our Govt's strategy too. They are desperately trying to claw back the ground they lost with the refugee swap. I doubt the revelation about Alex Downer's session with George Panadopolous (?) will have helped. He still hasn't appointed an ambassador to Australia.

At least there is a new ambassador from the US to Haiti, a foreign service professional, but she has not yet taken up her post. Her first interviews should be interesting.
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Anglican_Brat
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# 12349

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quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Yeah, that's our Govt's strategy too. They are desperately trying to claw back the ground they lost with the refugee swap. I doubt the revelation about Alex Downer's session with George Panadopolous (?) will have helped. He still hasn't appointed an ambassador to Australia.

At least there is a new ambassador from the US to Haiti, a foreign service professional, but she has not yet taken up her post. Her first interviews should be interesting.
According to Anderson Cooper, tomorrow is the eighth anniversary of the Haitian earthquake. This is beyond tone deaf, and is outright racism.

At this point, I want every Democratic congressman and senator to turn their backs on him while he is jabbering in his State of the Union Address.
[Mad]

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It's Reformation Day! Do your part to promote Christian unity and brotherly love and hug a schismatic.

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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A good deal of commentary about the latest logorrhea from Lyin' Don, but I find this Post columnist especially cogent.

A bipartisan group of Congresspersons actually did achieve an immigration deal this morning, but after his tasteful comments it all went down in flames.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Calling other countries "shitholes".

Stay classy.

But as the staffer approvingly comments, "it will resonate with his base".

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
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Indeed. We have a minister currently appealing to his believed base on "African gangs" which is upsetting.

This continual appealing to bigots and xenophobes worries me in many ways. When Trump falls, pray let it be soon, do you think they will revolt in a, possibly violent, way, when this language disappears? Or will they skulk away?

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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Maybe one could make predictions about the future direction of US policy based on these soundbites.

Africa: shithole
UK: disrespectful
Netherlands: rampaging Muslims*
Various central/north American countries: drug dealers, rapists and criminals
French ladies: beautiful
Norway: our kind of people

He really isn't doing anything to challenge the idea that he's a white supremicist.

* ok this one wasn't Trump

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arse

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:

This continual appealing to bigots and xenophobes worries me in many ways. When Trump falls, pray let it be soon, do you think they will revolt in a, possibly violent, way, when this language disappears? Or will they skulk away?

I was reflecting earlier about a similar question: if there was another Brexit referendum (let's say which offered a few more options than the last one), and Leave lost, would this lead to a revolt?

I appreciate the issues with the far-right are more pressing in the US, so there isn't a direct comparison. However it seems to me that even if the bad shit is reversed this will play into their agenda of grievance.

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arse

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la vie en rouge
Parisienne
# 10688

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Calling other countries "shitholes".

Stay classy.

But as the staffer approvingly comments, "it will resonate with his base".
The other staffer charged with defending El Presidente is called Raj Shah. May I assume that his parents were immigrants? Was there particular bit of foreign a sh*thole or was it a nice country like Norway? Enquiring minds want to know.

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Rent my holiday home in the South of France

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Given the "Shah" last name, my guess is that he's Persian/Iranian. Not on T's favorite countries list.

However, T may not be aware of the heritage of any names, other than maybe German ones.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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mr cheesy
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quote:
Originally posted by la vie en rouge:
May I assume that his parents were immigrants? Was there particular bit of foreign a sh*thole or was it a nice country like Norway? Enquiring minds want to know.

I guess it is fairly likely that guy is from an Indian family, and possibly/probably a wealthy one.

Trump likes wealthy Indians. But then I suspect he quite likes wealthy Africans, Mexicans and Haitians.

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arse

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Boogie

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# 13538

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This has made me think 🤔

What is a ‘shithole’? A toilet or an anus? 🤔

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Garden. Room. Walk

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betjemaniac
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# 17618

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whilst appreciating the mere fact that Mr Trump is now *not* coming to open the new US embassy in London, I did wince at his explanation as tweeted, that he disagreed with the Obama administration's decision to sell prime real estate for "peanuts" and move to somewhere less central. So he's not going to do it.

1) the decision was taken by the Bush administration in 2008.

2) the US embassy in Grosvenor Square was rented from the Duke of Westminster.


[Killing me]

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And is it true? For if it is....

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
This has made me think 🤔

What is a ‘shithole’? A toilet or an anus? 🤔

I think it could be either. But either way, it's not a good description of a place.

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arse

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:

2) the US embassy in Grosvenor Square was rented from the Duke of Westminster.


[Killing me]

Well it appears that the Duke refused to sell the land, instead gave them a 999 year lease. I'm not a property lawyer, but it sounds like they owned the building - otherwise what did they have to sell to the Dubai hotel developers?

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arse

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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Qatari not Dubai developers. Sorry, my mistake.

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arse

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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It's a leasehold property, nothing unusual about that. So the US has sold the building. But, development of that building will need the agreement of the freeholder (in this case the Duke), in addition to all the usual planning permissions and building codes, which again isn't unusual though would make the building less valuable than would be the case if the land and building were owned outright.

One would assume that a property developer would be better informed.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Re Haitians:

Mia Love, a Haitian-American member of Congress, has called T out on his comments. (Well, not *literally* called out. There was no invitation to have a get-together in an alley.)

FYI: She's a Republican, from Utah.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
This has made me think 🤔

What is a ‘shithole’? A toilet or an anus? 🤔

I think it could be either. But either way, it's not a good description of a place.
It's a Juju-flop situation. Life imitates art once again.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Pangolin Guerre
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# 18686

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I heard that he also described the Grovesnor Square location as "the best" in London. Very good, indeed, but I would say that Canada House and South Africa House are better located, facing one another across Trafalgar Square.
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Pangolin Guerre
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I heard that he also described the Grosvenor Square location as "the best" in London. Very good, indeed, but I would say that Canada House and South Africa House are better located, facing one another across Trafalgar Square.
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betjemaniac
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I think the Cyprus High Commission would be in with a shout too - St James's Square, next to the London Library, closer than Canada or South Africa to Buck House....

Mind you, Zimbabwe House is handy for Stomp...

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And is it true? For if it is....

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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It's a new normal? Lawmakers in the USA just say it's not nice to have said things like this and move on? Only talk show comedians seem to say anything worthwhile.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Crœsos
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Here's another example of someone using the term "shithole" to describe somewhere that has too many of the wrong color people. It's even got a Norwegian angle. Is "shithole" a common code word / term of art among racists?

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Brenda Clough
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He is talking like the sleazy New York real estate developer, not (Christ alone knows) like a diplomat, a president, or an informed person.

Post pundits exhaustively dissect this new folly, but you need not click unless you want the obsessive details.

I am a diplomat's daughter, and will add that new Embassy buildings became a priority after 9-11 -- that's why the decision to sell the old place and get a new one was made during the Bush administration. It's almost impossible, in an older building in an older neighborhood, to achieve the kind of security perimeter you need for an embassy. Think truck bombs. You have to build new, usually a Brutalist structure (concrete) set in bleak plaza edged by bollards, and this calls for acreage that's usually not available in the posh parts of town.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Added to which, the workload (and hence staff) in embassies is constantly growing. More citizens travelling seeking help, or wanting to establish business relations in different countries etc. The news is talking about the US selling several properties in London, in addition to the old embassy building. I'm assuming that US embassy staff had been working in different locations across London, and the new building is designed to house them all (with some space for further expansion). It's probably more efficient and cost effective to have those people in one place, it's certainly going to be much easier to maintain security.

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Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

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Gill H

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# 68

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quote:
Originally posted by betjemaniac:
Mind you, Zimbabwe House is handy for Stomp...

Not for long, closing soon and we still haven't seen it!

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Searching for a new sig...

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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If The Orange Father Of Lies really did say what was reported (and which, naturally, he denies), then he is not fit to hold office.

But we knew that already.

Why, O Americans, do you not rise up, and depose this evil racist? Is there really nothing you can do to rid yourselves of this incubus?

[Disappointed]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Yorick

Infinite Jester
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Even if it were somehow possible for a sufficiently unpopular president to be deposed, he shouldn’t be. He was elected to office, and how cuntishly he happens to preside is your own collective fault as an electorate.

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این نیز بگذرد

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Nicolemr
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# 28

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Bishop's Finger, short of actual armed rebellion, there is actually nothing the average citizen can do about him, save to lobby our elected officials to either impeach or go the 25th amendment route.

Yorrick, he did loose the popular election you know. It was the damn electoral collage that won him the position.

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

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Yorick

Infinite Jester
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Whatever. You made your bed, Merkans, so lie in it.

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این نیز بگذرد

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Salicional
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# 16461

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On the plus side, his boorish behavior might just swing enough congressional seats back to the Democrats in November to shift the balance of power.
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Crœsos
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# 238

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For those who are interested in such things here is a list of all Americans who voted to elect Trump. There were 304 of them.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
This has made me think 🤔

Could you please teach that skill to the Orange Ignoramus?

quote:
What is a ‘shithole’? A toilet or an anus? 🤔
That would be the Orange Ignoramus' mouth.

How is it possible for that horrible excuse for a human in the White House to continue to show his ignorance every day? Has there been even one day that he hasn't lied or displayed his racist spewings for all to see? Can he read for comprehension? Could he at least attempt to research actual facts before making incorrect judgments and tweets about them? I'm pretty sure I know the answer to those questions.

I need a basket of kittens and puppies. Or meds. I prefer the furry babies.

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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There is an app you can get, that swaps out Crooked Don's picture on your computer for that of a kitten, whenever it occurs.

The key moment will be November, 2018: election day. On that day, the electorate can repudiate him. He may still be President, but a Democratic House can subpoena his tax returns, compel sworn testimony. And this leads to the articles of impeachment.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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My point, above, is that why on earth don't any of the people who are present when he says "shithole" etc, say to him "you can't say that" and otherwise take him on directly at the time. Is he so magnificent and intimidating that not one person who meets with him call him out? No-one has any sort of decency in them? No-one says "you can't say 'shithole' and say other countries are shitholes". frankly if they don't call it out, they are colluding with him. Do they agree with him on all of this lunacy? They for god's sake say something directly to him! At the very time he says it.
Posts: 11301 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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He's President Shithole.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11301 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
apostate630
Apprentice
# 15425

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Re Trump's preference for Norwegian immigrants over the wretched refuse of "teeming shores" (19th century vernacular for "shitholes"),

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/trump-shithole-countries-norway_us_5a58199ce4b0720dc4c5b6dc?ncid=inblnkushpmg00000009

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jedijudy

Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
There is an app you can get, that swaps out Crooked Don's picture on your computer for that of a kitten, whenever it occurs.

I've been using that app for almost a year!
[Big Grin]

No prophet, maybe they're just afraid of his reactions. Someone has to stand up to him. Please. Someone!

He just gave an eye-roll worthy speech on TV about Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Pres. Trump celebrates Martin Luther King Jr. "for standing up for the self-evident truth that Americans hold so dear, that no matter the color of our skin or the place of our birth, we are all created equal by God."
How can he stand himself? Maybe hypocrisy doesn't have the foul stench it should have.

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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.

Posts: 17939 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Salicional:
On the plus side, his boorish behavior might just swing enough congressional seats back to the Democrats in November to shift the balance of power.

There is a theory that this behaviour might actually fire up the populist base: "he tells it the way it is, now THAT's I guy I'll go vote for".

I wouldn't dismiss that possibility.

I said months ago that barring physical illness, I think he's on course for a second term, and I have yet to change my mind.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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He clearly does not realize when he is contradicting himself, even if the first statement was mere minutes ago. So, he probably said that statement in all seriousness. It was worth exactly as much as every other word that drops from the teeny pursed lips.

A meme making the rounds, of the Statue of Liberty. The caption is, "France called, they want their statue back."

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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No exit yet. November. Less than 300 days away...


I am encouraged by this vigorous Republican rebuttal. (these are free clicks) We are not utterly lost, not yet.

[ 12. January 2018, 18:11: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Augustine the Aleut
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# 1472

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
My point, above, is that why on earth don't any of the people who are present when he says "shithole" etc, say to him "you can't say that" and otherwise take him on directly at the time. Is he so magnificent and intimidating that not one person who meets with him call him out? No-one has any sort of decency in them? No-one says "you can't say 'shithole' and say other countries are shitholes". frankly if they don't call it out, they are colluding with him. Do they agree with him on all of this lunacy? They for god's sake say something directly to him! At the very time he says it.

I was in a cabinet minister's private office many many years ago and it was common knowledge in that world that this was the job of the Executive Assistant (now called Chief of Staff, with an extraordinary increase of salary). As soon as the door was closed, the Discussion would follow. The EA would also have the job of convincing the staff not to leave (or leak), and of pacifying other ministers' offices and the Prime Minister's office.

In the case of the US president, this would be the Chief of Staff's job, and he would have to make it clear that he would resign if a satisfactory resolution could not be obtained (i.e., grovelling apology). No Prophet would doubtless be as interested as I about what General Kelly said or did. To my mind, the s***hole statement should have resulted in the resignation of the Secretary of State, whose job must have become quite impossible, or of cabinet members in disgust, but the bar for decency in these matters has been... lowered.... in recent months.

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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This is a particularly cogent line in the sand. I'm encouraged that there is at last some energetic callout. But it's depressing to reflect that he's said things just as ugly before (Mexican rapists, all Haitians have AIDS, etc.) with little kickback.

And here the SurveyMonkey people categorize Trump supporters and detractors. This is hopeful.

[ 12. January 2018, 19:05: Message edited by: Brenda Clough ]

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Hopeful, perhaps - but in the meantime, America is still careering wildly hither and yon on the back of a very Orange tiger.....

[Ultra confused]

.....while the rest of the world looks on in fascinated horror, wondering what the next mad tweet will be about.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
To my mind, the s***hole statement should have resulted in the resignation of the Secretary of State, whose job must have become quite impossible, or of cabinet members in disgust, but the bar for decency in these matters has been... lowered.... in recent months.

I cling to the hope that Kelly is the one keeping Trump's finger away from the button.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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