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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
mr cheesy
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# 3330

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
There is little dispute that the general agreement is 2% GDP for member states, and that there are 4 that meet that obligation.

The US nearly doubles that contribution.

I think that's about total spending on defense, not contributions to the NATO budget - which are agreed by NATO states themselves. AFAIU either NATO has been able to spend the available money each year or has reduced activities to meet the size of the budget. Nobody is to saying that states which have contributed less in the past somehow "owe" the USA except Trump.

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arse

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Eutychus
From the edge
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Romanlion, welcome back. Would you like to share any other thoughts on the Trump presidency so far? We've been short of comments from non-Democrats.

[ 25. May 2017, 17:06: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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cliffdweller
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
He's been having an interesting time at the NATO summit. Elbowing his way past leaders to stand at the front, then lecturing them that they "owe the US" money.

Whilst it might be true that other countries should be contributing more (although even that seems in dispute), it seems fairly clear that nobody owes back-payments to the USA.

Even if there prove to be some nations in arrears, bankruptcy Don is the last person on earth who should be lecturing someone else about paying their bills.

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"Here is the world. Beautiful and terrible things will happen. Don't be afraid." -Frederick Buechner

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Pangolin Guerre
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To clarify, the 2% of GDP refers to total military expenditure, not NATO contribution. Trump seems to be labouring under the misapprehension that 2% of GDP is membership dues. To quote Himself, "Wrong." Further, the commitments to 2% were not commitments in a legal sense, and certainly not understood to be by the participants. It would better to understand 2% as aspirational. Rather like committing to being a good Christian.

Among the numerous things that were interesting in this morning's address was the strange conflation of anti-terrorist measures with warfare in its classical sense. Trump's yoking of the 2% with recent terrorist activity, being that not meeting the 2% is in direct relation to Manchester, etc. was either grossly mistaken or cynical. This is, of course, a failure to understand or deliberately to misrepresent warfare's evolving paradigm. In dealing with terrorism, it would produce greater clarity not to rely - or, at least, not too heavily - on "warfare" as the governing paragigm. Buying more tanks, guns, etc., will not win this., but I suspect that Trump does not have the intellectual equipment to understand this.

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mr cheesy
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Oh this just keeps getting better: apparently when Trump met the Israeli PM, he left the Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor outside the meeting and instead took his son-in-law Jared.

I get it now: this is The Apprentice, week 5. Trump is mixing the teams up just to see what happens.

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arse

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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Buying more tanks, guns, etc., will not win this., but I suspect that Trump does not have the intellectual equipment to understand this.

To be fair, this isn't just Trump. It is the American, especially Republican, basic strategy.

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So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Mark Wuntoo
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quote:
Originally posted by mr cheesy:
Oh this just keeps getting better: apparently when Trump met the Israeli PM, he left the Secretary of State and the National Security Advisor outside the meeting and instead took his son-in-law Jared.

I get it now: this is The Apprentice, week 5. Trump is mixing the teams up just to see what happens.

Or could it be that his bizarre behaviours are attempts to cover up his total fright and panic at finding himself president?

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Blessed are the cracked for they let in the light.

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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Or that he simply can't (or doesn't care to) remember what his handlers surely must have told him about protocol?

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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Brenda Clough
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I could find you a link, but staffers have learned to -not- tell Li'l Donny what not to say, because then they infallibly get blurted out. Last in the ear, first out the mouth. Usually it is four-year-olds who have this kind of issue.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Gramps49
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Nations have gone to war for slights like pushing leaders aside. And that Mussolini pose does not help. You are to be an equal among equals, Don.
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romanlion
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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
Romanlion, welcome back. Would you like to share any other thoughts on the Trump presidency so far? We've been short of comments from non-Democrats.

Thanks!

If I had to sum it up succinctly I suppose I would say sui generis...

As someone who has long followed US politics for entertainment, it has been beyond anything I could have sincerely imagined 2 years ago.

The foam-at-the-mouth hysterical idiocy of the opposition provides at will access to endless, blissful schadenfreude. Of course that's just crass self indulgence...

In real world terms, the Gorsuch nomination and the next (at least) one pending give me a measure of hope for my daughters, that the Republic may actually remain standing as intended into their children's lives.

On that mark alone he has proven the lesser of two evils by oom... Not that I voted for him, or ever will.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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Crœsos
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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
In real world terms, the Gorsuch nomination and the next (at least) one pending give me a measure of hope for my daughters, that the Republic may actually remain standing as intended into their children's lives.

On that mark alone he has proven the lesser of two evils by oom... Not that I voted for him, or ever will.

It always seemed odd that someone as bland as Merrick Garland could elicit such hatred and hostility that he's regarded in some quarters as an outright threat to the continued existence of the American republic, but there it is, I guess.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Ian Climacus

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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
On that mark alone he has proven the lesser of two evils by oom...

Sorry for being thick, but what is oom?
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romanlion
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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
On that mark alone he has proven the lesser of two evils by oom...

Sorry for being thick, but what is oom?
Sorry, acronym for orders of magnitude.

And FWIW I have no opinion on Garland, having never seen him under Senate scrutiny. I don't have the time, energy, or inclination to research his decisions myself. All that's left is the opinion of media which is worthless...totally partisan, entrenched, and 80% bullshit from both sides. I certainly don't hate him or hold any hostility against him.

What I can say is that Gorsuch was brilliant in his Senate testimony. Measured, consistent, and affable...

It was during those hearings that I started to picture Al Franken with a big red nose on...I think they should make him wear one for real in the interest of accuracy.

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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman

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Bishops Finger
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From Wikipedia (and therefore The Truth):

'Out of memory (OOM) is an often undesired state of computer operation where no additional memory can be allocated for use by programs or the operating system.'

Perhaps that's what romanlion meant?

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Eutychus
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quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
In real world terms, the Gorsuch nomination and the next (at least) one pending give me a measure of hope for my daughters, that the Republic may actually remain standing as intended into their children's lives.

Right, so you appear to espouse the "long game" view, where the most important aim of the presidency is to secure a Supreme Court that is sure to rule in line with your preferences, and nothing else matters?

What would you say to the challenge that Trump is doing a fair job of weakening the institutions that help uphold the Republic and the credibility of the office he holds?

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Bishops Finger
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As an aside, I wonder if the numbers of those who witnessed Mr. Potus' motorcade through Brussels (capital country of the beautiful city of Belgium) were biglier than the YUGE crowd greeting Mr. Obama at his meeting with Frau Merkel in Berlin?

[Two face]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Ian Climacus

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Thanks romanlion (and Bishops Finger!)

Looks like "losers" is the new word de jour. Not sure what I think. Sounds a bit childish, but terrorists are losers I suppose. Pathetic may be a term I'd prefer.

[ 25. May 2017, 22:43: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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Bishops Finger
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Not at all, even though I was wrong!

Orders of magnitude certainly makes more sense.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Leorning Cniht
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Perhaps someone would like to tell Mr. Trump that losers are people too.

Some people make a success of their lives. Other people have the unerring knack of taking a silk purse and converting it into a sow's ear. Both kinds of people are his brothers and sisters, formed in God's image.

[ 25. May 2017, 23:00: Message edited by: Leorning Cniht ]

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Brenda Clough
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I am certain he would deny this. Vast swathes of humanity do not seem to count as human in his view -- Muslims, women, ugly people, etc.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
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Hang on... Trump is a very ugly bloke, surely? He was ugly when he was young too.

I reckon predicting how someone will act in a high judicial office is extremely perilous. It's like trying to predict what cases will come up during their time on the bench.

Welcome back Romanlion! I too follow politics like I used to follow sport. I even get into my own players more often than not.

Finally, I concede that Hillary is unelectable.

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Human

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Gramps49
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Meanwhile, the Fourth District Court of Appeals has declared the most recent Trump travel ban unconstitutional 8-3. Loser
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Golden Key
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Leorning Cniht--

quote:
Originally posted by Leorning Cniht:
Perhaps someone would like to tell Mr. Trump that losers are people too.

Some people make a success of their lives. Other people have the unerring knack of taking a silk purse and converting it into a sow's ear. Both kinds of people are his brothers and sisters, formed in God's image.

Ah, but there's the problem. His father sternly taught little Donald and the other kids that only winners are worthy of being loved. The competition drove one of T's brothers to alcoholism and early death. (That was in various coverage--possibly in the specials that PBS did on T and Hillary. T mentioned his brother during a "60 Minutes" interview. He actually displayed some compassion for his brother, and loss. I was surprised.)

T's friend, shock-jock Howard Stern, commented in the news on various aspects of T and his presidency, including "he just wants to be loved, like everyone else".

Makes me think of the poem
"Children Learn What They Live" (My Meditative Moments).

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
T's friend, shock-jock Howard Stern, commented in the news on various aspects of T and his presidency, including "he just wants to be loved, like everyone else".

That's similar to what Henry Kissinger said of Richard Nixon on the occasion of the latter's demise: "He could have been a great man if only someone had loved him." (Sorry, I don't have a link to the quote.)

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
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Howard Stern is worth quoting? He is even more disgusting than trump. Decline and fall.

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Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

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Golden Key
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I was surprised by Stern, too. I only know of him as a shock jock, and I haven't listened to his show, except for clips in the news. He once said something deeply personal and awful about his wife, on the air, and she was furious, and he apologized on the air. (I gather that's not something he'd normally do.) And he embarrassed George Takei on air. GT's "Ohhhhh, mmmMYYYyyyyy!" response has become quite the meme.

I've wondered if Stern's explanations of T are really meant as messages to T. Paraphrased, they might be something like "hey, Don, you know I love you; you never wanted that job; remember you wanted Hillary to win; this job doesn't play to your strengths, and you'll wind up a loser; why not resign, and be a winner somewhere else, where they will love you more?"

May T follow that message, and soon.
[Votive]

[ 26. May 2017, 03:14: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Ian Climacus

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Poverty a 'state of mind'

Thanks Carson. Blame the victim.

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simontoad
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Oh yeah. When I saw that I thought Carson was running flak for the boss, but on reflection it's in character.

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Human

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Ariston
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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Meanwhile, the Fourth District Court of Appeals has declared the most recent Trump travel ban unconstitutional 8-3. Loser

10-3, really. I still need to listen to Vladeck and Chesney's National Security Law Podcast episode on this, but Vladeck's general rundown is pretty helpful. Some pretty technical arguments, but interesting for how this may play out in the future.
Yay, #AppellateTwitter!

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“Therefore, let it be explained that nowhere are the proprieties quite so strictly enforced as in men’s colleges that invite young women guests, especially over-night visitors in the fraternity houses.” Emily Post, 1937.

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Gramps49
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Thank you for the correction. I knew that a minority of three justices dissented I assumed there were 11 justices on the bench, not 13. I stand corrected.

In other news it had been reported last Friday a senior White House official was a person of interest in the Russian Collusion investigation. Tonight, that official was named Jarod Kushner, son in law of the POTUS. Kushner conveniently forgot to list all the foreign contacts he had. Of particular interest is his connection to a Russian Bank that funds many of the Russian spy networks. This bank helped bankroll the Trump property in Toronto

Does anyone else smell smoke? Why is it getting hot around the Don?

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Oh yeah. When I saw that I thought Carson was running flak for the boss, but on reflection it's in character.

The ever-articulate John Scalzi
explains why the 'poverty state of mind' thing is so pernicious. This is a free click.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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Here's an article explaining why Donald Trump is likely to be re-elected in 2020. This is a free click, too.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Bishops Finger
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And a very depressing read, too.

[Disappointed]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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lilBuddha
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I've said it before and have yet to be proven wrong: People are stupid.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Sioni Sais
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quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I've said it before and have yet to be proven wrong: People are stupid.

Well, at least they have some representation.
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lilBuddha
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quote:
Originally posted by Sioni Sais:
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
I've said it before and have yet to be proven wrong: People are stupid.

Well, at least they have some representation.
Those who voted for Trump got what they deserved. The problem is the rest of the world didn't deserve him, but we still got him.

--------------------
So goodnight moon, I want the sun
If it's not here soon, I might be done
No it won't be too soon 'til I say goodnight moon

- A. N. Parsley, D. Mcvinni

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Golden Key
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IMHO, the ones most to blame are politicians, donors, powerful people, Russian operatives, etc., who had a pretty good idea of what he is and of his severe impairments--and supported him anyway, for their own agendas and to keep the Republicans in power.

--------------------
Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Viva la France!
Viva la Macron!
Viva la Snub Extroardinaire!

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Human

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Wesley J

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What's that about then, dear Australian friend? Anything I missed? An encounter/non-encounter I didn't notice? [Big Grin]

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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That would be this, I think.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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Ah! Très bien! (i.e. 'Very good!') - Thank you.

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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I think M. Macron showed both good taste, and politeness, in greeting the lady first.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9443 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

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I read that in fact he was following protocol by greeting the various heads of state in order of seniority (measured in terms of their time in office). Trump surely doesn't understand protocol, so he was doubly shamed here it seems to me.

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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Fair enough - but Baby Trumpling did look as though he felt he should have been greeted first, being The Great Leader Of The World, and all.

OTOH, M. Macron, young sprog though he be, showed typical Gallic charm, poise, and grace.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9443 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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And it appears that Potus pushed aside the Montenegrin PM, Duško Marković, in order to get to the front of the group.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/world-us-canada-40050926/trump-pushes-past-montenegro-s-pm

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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Fourth graders (ca 10 yo) reading from Donald Trump's speeches.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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O dear - that video 'cannot be played in my location'. Obviously, Potty Trumpling's Thought Police have penetrated the UK.

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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Is this the same one?

I can see that here. It will appeal to the Trump has a limited vocabulary crowd.

Posts: 7578 | From: Albury, Australia | Registered: Jul 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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I just realized something: given that T has (co-)written several books, he'll likely write at least one about his presidency--however long it is.

Possible titles:

--My Greatness.

--How My Greatness Won The Presidency.

--How I, Trump, Saved The World.

--The Fun Of Being A/The Messiah.

--What's Next For The Trump?

--Thank You, Me, For A Very Great, I Mean Really Greatest Life.

This applies to the discussion, but I think I'm going to start a Circus thread and copy this in.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18169 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged



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