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Source: (consider it) Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325

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quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
quote:
Originally posted by Salicional:
On the plus side, his boorish behavior might just swing enough congressional seats back to the Democrats in November to shift the balance of power.

There is a theory that this behaviour might actually fire up the populist base: "he tells it the way it is, now THAT's I guy I'll go vote for".

I wouldn't dismiss that possibility.

I said months ago that barring physical illness, I think he's on course for a second term, and I have yet to change my mind.

Nothing on the horizon to suggest that you should either.

The tax bill and his impact on the Judiciary will hold even the squishy edges of the GOP base in line. He's now maneuvered the dims into a DACA compromise that will fund his border plans. I don't see how they escape it at this point.

Once that's done, 2020 will be a fait accompli.

IMO.

Posts: 1429 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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A couple of my favorite commentators weigh in. Writer John Scalzi does not fail.
And John Pavlovitz makes the case that you can be a Christian or a Trump supporter but not both.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Stephen Colbert said "they're not from a shithole country of their president isn't trump".

I guess it wouldn't be enough for him to do an actual criminal act on camera. Failure of democracy. So bad. For shame.

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Pangolin Guerre
Shipmate
# 18686

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Question regarding embassies:

Do American states have representations abroad, as our Canadian provinces do? (NB: The provinces don't have a diplomatic service, as such, but they do have their own commissions, etc. in London, Paris, and I think Brussels.

Question for Croesus:

I read the list of Electors as far as Colorado, and didn't recognise a single name. Should I have done? Are any of them notable, or are they just friends of people in the state assemblies?

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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468

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Eutychus--

Well, yes, Kelly (Bunny With An Axe) works with children, so she'd be qualified. But I wouldn't wish that job on her.
[Paranoid]

(Yes, I know you meant Gen. Kelly.)

[ 13. January 2018, 01:22: Message edited by: Golden Key ]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18396 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
[QB] Question regarding embassies:

Do American states have representations abroad, as our Canadian provinces do? (NB: The provinces don't have a diplomatic service, as such, but they do have their own commissions, etc. in London, Paris, and I think Brussels.

The larger or more prosperous states might have a trade office, solely to promote business in California or New York or whatever the state is. All diplomatic and visa matters are of course handled by the embassy or consulate. If there isn't a state office you might have state officials visiting the foreign country in a group, promoting trade.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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My online news source says that the US Ambassador to Panama has resigned. Apparently, he has had enough of serving under Trump as he disagrees with the things he's asked to do.

Trump gets rid of all the best people...

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Human

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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
John Pavlovitz makes the case that you can be a Christian or a Trump supporter but not both.

I suppose if you define "Christian" as "White person who hates muslims and homosexuals and believes that the sanctity of life applies only to foetuses", you're fine.
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Bishops Finger
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# 5430

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Just so, adding perhaps '50+ male' to all that.

[Disappointed]

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Pangolin Guerre:
Question for Croesus:

I read the list of Electors as far as Colorado, and didn't recognise a single name. Should I have done? Are any of them notable, or are they just friends of people in the state assemblies?

There's no reason for you to recognize any of those names unless you're intimately familiar with the party politics of the state in question. Presidential electors are selected by state political parties because of their dependable loyalty and the fact that they currently hold no federal office, elected or appointed.

Despite being ostensibly selected for loyalty, 2016 was a bumper year for "faithless electors". Two Republican electors from Texas cast their ballot for someone other than Trump, and five Democratic electors voted for someone other than Clinton.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Dave W.
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# 8765

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
My point, above, is that why on earth don't any of the people who are present when he says "shithole" etc, say to him "you can't say that" and otherwise take him on directly at the time. Is he so magnificent and intimidating that not one person who meets with him call him out? No-one has any sort of decency in them? No-one says "you can't say 'shithole' and say other countries are shitholes". frankly if they don't call it out, they are colluding with him. Do they agree with him on all of this lunacy? They for god's sake say something directly to him! At the very time he says it.

According to this NYTimes article, Lindsey Graham pushed back in that meeting:
quote:
“America is an idea, not a race,” Mr. Graham said, according to three people familiar with the exchange on Thursday. Diversity was a strength, he said, not a weakness. And by the way, the senator added, he himself was a descendant of immigrants who came to the United States from “shithole countries with no skills.”

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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For people of northern European stock, the longer one's family has been in this country, the more likely the original arrivals were to have been without skills. Newer (white) arrivals tend to be people who come here with tech or other in-demand skills.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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A friend of mine reports that, in just these past few days, when she types the first three letters her autocorrect now offer 'shithole.' The coarsening of our discourse accelerates.

OTOH the term has a rich and ancient literary pedigree.

Post reporters dug into how the lawmakers present at that meeting responded. A great deal of oozing and toadying is taking place of course.

There are calls now for these pantywaists to grow a pair.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378

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Report: Trump lawyer brokered S130.000 deal to prevent Porn Star from discussing their affair.
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Egeria
Shipmate
# 4517

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No, there is no such thing as a "shithole" country.

But there is indeed a shithole party.

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"Sound bodies lined / with a sound mind / do here pursue with might / grace, honor, praise, delight."--Rabelais

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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378

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For those of you not on facebook, same report here.
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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I'm pretty sure I shouldn't like Lindsay Graham, but I am finding it harder and harder to understand why. He looks like a very angel sent from heaven right now.

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Human

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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I've seen a few stories since that Alabama win suggesting that the Democrats are on track to win a majority in both houses this year. I am concerned that this is the media seeking to whip up more interest in these elections. Usually, they would barely rate a mention in Australia. I know the urge to do nasty things to Trump is strong, but does it penetrate much to people who would have ignored politics under Bush II or Obama? I'd be surprised if it did.

So how are things tracking? Is it really going to be close? My recollection is that last year, Democratic control of both houses was considered an almost impossible row to hoe.

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Human

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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I'm not into twitter (I don't understand how it works) but do see articles on news feeds which link and quote. This one seemed a summary of the despicableness.
quote:
Trump's guide to diversity

Africa: Array of shithole countries
Haitians: Have AIDS
Nigerians: Live in huts
Puerto Ricans: Lazy
Black Americans: Ingrates
Mexicans: Criminals and rapists
Muslims: Evil terrorists
Women: Treat them like shit
(@shannonrwatts) January 11, 2018)

Maybe it was this bad with your Nixon president but social media means we're aware and weren't then? I am lead to understand that there were a number of people present at the #Shithole discussion and most have dissimulated, saying nothing, that they didn't hear, or summarizing the comments as "tough language".

What proportion of elected officials are of what we used to call "good character", have "moral fibre", are willing to stand on principle?

Are almost all deformed of personality such that they think only of advantages for themselves? One wonders if the only reckoning is size of bank accounts. What was your revolution about again? Is crying and commisserating with you enough? Is the best that can be done is hoping for another celeb like Oprah to challange him? He's gonna have a war isn't he?

[ 14. January 2018, 05:07: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

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Galloping Granny
Shipmate
# 13814

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I had to look for "Bring me your tired, your poor, your huddled masses yearning to breathe free".
Even at the end of the earth from Drump I'm familiar with that quote..
So far nobody's rubbed the fellow's nose in that sentiment.

GG

PS It's his ignoring of climate change, very evident in my small corner, that terrifies me.

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The Kingdom of Heaven is spread upon the earth, and men do not see it. Gospel of Thomas, 113

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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641

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OTOH, a number of the Democrats, including a couple of self proclaimed members of the #Resistance were happy to vote to renew a law allowing warrantless surveillance.
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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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The WaPo has yet another article on 45 - I'm glad they're keeping it up! -, and this one, from 13 January 2018, entitled
quote:
The ‘genius’ of Trump: What the president means when he touts his smarts
appears to give a long-term insight in his life. It's from his youth to now, and a long read. - To me, the article is a breather in these hectic times of non-stop news and utter nonsense tweets, a brief step back, and looking at things from a distance, which I think is so much needed. Phew.

Link here.

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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A think piece about the odds of a Democaratic sweep. The gist: getting sunnier, but still a gamble.

I think I already posted a link to a piece about the other meeting participants. Mostly the posture seems to have been on hands and knees, licking his shoe, but Sen. Dick Durbin did at least confirm the facts.

As to whether the populace at large cares -- this is unknown. There are those who will stick to him forever. But even his diehard supporters agree that he tweets too much and is not helping himself running off at the mouth.

I do believe that if those who did not vote in 2016 go to the polls, the issue will not be in doubt. Polling is consistent; this is one of the most unpopular presidents in history. But what counts is the vote.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
# 5521

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I've seen a few stories since that Alabama win suggesting that the Democrats are on track to win a majority in both houses this year.

Yeah, and the media told us over and over again that the Fartletter-in-Chief didn't have a chance of a snowball in hell of (a) winning the primaries or (b) getting elected. And look where that got us.

I wish the media would go back to reporting the news and stop telling us what's going to happen.

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"Stop your noisy songs; I do not want to listen to your praise bands." -- Amos 5:23, Good News Bible (modified)

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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by mousethief:
For people of northern European stock, the longer one's family has been in this country, the more likely the original arrivals were to have been without skills. Newer (white) arrivals tend to be people who come here with tech or other in-demand skills.

Except that in the sense Trump is using the term "merit" is a euphemism for "white". "Norwegian" is not a skill set. A lot of conservative pundits are throwing up a lot of smoke and pretending to be stupid about this, but what makes Trump's comments objectionable is not that he used crude language or his assessment of certain countries, it's his position that anyone from a "shithole country" cannot become a good American. Adam Serwer discusses this in greater depth:

quote:
These remarks reflect scorn not only for those who wish to come here, but those who already have. It is a president of the United States expressing his contempt for the tens of millions of descendants of Africans, most of whose forefathers had no choice in crossing the Atlantic, American citizens whom any president is bound to serve. And it is a public admission of sorts that he is incapable of being a president for all Americans, the logic of his argument elevating not just white immigrants over brown ones, but white citizens over the people of color they share this country with.
The whole thing is worth a read.

quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
I've seen a few stories since that Alabama win suggesting that the Democrats are on track to win a majority in both houses this year. I am concerned that this is the media seeking to whip up more interest in these elections. Usually, they would barely rate a mention in Australia. I know the urge to do nasty things to Trump is strong, but does it penetrate much to people who would have ignored politics under Bush II or Obama? I'd be surprised if it did.

So how are things tracking? Is it really going to be close? My recollection is that last year, Democratic control of both houses was considered an almost impossible row to hoe.

Brenda already covered the House of Representatives, so I'll do the Senate analysis. The prospects for the Democrats flipping the Senate looked pretty dire for most of last year. There was a 52-48 Republican majority, meaning that the Democrats had to make a net gain of 3 seats in 2018 to take control. Since only 8 of the Senate seats up for election in 2018 were held by Republicans this seemed impossible. Even assuming the Democrats could hold on to all 23 of their seats up for re-election (plus the seats of the two independent Senators who caucus with the Democrats) they'd still need to displace three sitting Republican Senators. Two looked vulnerable: Dean Heller in Nevada and Jeff Flake of Arizona. But no one could figure out a likely prospect for the Democrats taking that third seat, absent something really flukey.

Well, having a Democratic Senator from Alabama is one huge fluke. It's still far from certain that Democratic incumbents from states like Montana and North Dakota will keep their seats in 2018 but Democratic control of the U.S. Senate, which looked like a longshot at the beginning of 2017 looks more like a 50/50 proposition at the start of 2018.

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10593 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Thinking of northern Europe, the USA's ambassador to Netherlands is such a sick liar one would hope the Dutch reject his credentials. To lie about what one has just said is beyond anything.

Dutch ambassador's bizarre news conference.

Stable Shithole Geniuses.

Posts: 11315 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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Like master, like man.

The Mad Mahdi of Maralago sure knows who to send to these third-world countries...

Has he upset and/or annoyed the Isle of Man or Iceland yet?

No? He's slipping...

IJ

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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)

Posts: 9814 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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Apparently if you previously googled "shithole" and "trump" all you got were hotel reviews.
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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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At least one ambassador has decided that he can't stand working for this administration any more. More seriously, so many posts are vacant that government services are becoming handicapped. Not only is the man uninterested in doing the job, he is incapable of learning how to do it. It's like putting a chimpanzee behind the wheel of an SUV.

Jennifer Rubin digs with her usual expertise into the implications of this. Essentially we have a government now which can only run by ignoring the chief executive. She rightly fixes the blame upon the apologists and GOP congresspeople who are abetting his overwhelming incompetence.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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mousethief

Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Apparently if you previously googled "shithole" and "trump" all you got were hotel reviews.

Perhaps explains where he learned the word, and why he was so eager to smear someone else with it.

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“Religion doesn't fuck up people, people fuck up religion.”—lilBuddha

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sabine
Shipmate
# 3861

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After seeing this commercial, I searched to see if it had been posted on the Ship. Snopes says it appears to be an actual offer, but it's hard to believe someone out there isn't having a big laugh. So... to add some stangeness and levity (I hope) to this thread, I give you Trumpy Bear.

https://youtu.be/i9qv8RSreIM

sabine

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"Hunger looks like the man that hunger is killing." Eduardo Galeano

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Dave W.
Shipmate
# 8765

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quote:
Originally posted by no prophet's flag is set so...:
Apparently if you previously googled "shithole" and "trump" all you got were hotel reviews.

Now you can get this:
Trump gets "shithole" thrown back in his face: vulgarity projected onto his D.C. hotel.

Posts: 2040 | From: the hub of the solar system | Registered: Nov 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lyda*Rose

Ship's broken porthole
# 4544

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quote:
Originally posted by sabine:
After seeing this commercial, I searched to see if it had been posted on the Ship. Snopes says it appears to be an actual offer, but it's hard to believe someone out there isn't having a big laugh. So... to add some stangeness and levity (I hope) to this thread, I give you Trumpy Bear.

https://youtu.be/i9qv8RSreIM

sabine

I think it is about as brilliant advertising as I've seen. The commercial is so finely balanced that serious Trumpites ( [Killing me] ) will take it seriously and buy it sentimentally, and Trump deriders will buy it and put pins in it or hang it in effigy.

Kudos, you Trumpy Bear entrepreneurs! [Overused]

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"Dear God, whose name I do not know - thank you for my life. I forgot how BIG... thank you. Thank you for my life." ~from Joe Vs the Volcano

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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881

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quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Jennifer Rubin digs with her usual expertise into the implications of this. Essentially we have a government now which can only run by ignoring the chief executive. She rightly fixes the blame upon the apologists and GOP congresspeople who are abetting his overwhelming incompetence.

They're not only abetting his incompetence, they welcome it. The GOP wants nothing more than to destroy government, so it should come as no surprise they don't know how to operate it. Their goal is a tiny federal government controlling national defense and women's reproductive systems and nothing more.

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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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To add to the wonderful words of Crœsos and Brenda, I noted Nate Silver was giving the Dems 35-40% chance of winning the Senate currently.

edit: missed word

[ 14. January 2018, 21:10: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378

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Galluping Granny--at the time the words on the Statue of Liberty were included, places like Italy, and Ireland and Scotland where considered sh-tholes. When you consider Dimwit's mother came from Scotland, she must be rolling in her grave.
Posts: 2148 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011  |  IP: Logged
Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061

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During the 1860s the German immigrants were considered to be dirty and feckless. In Little Women the girls administer a good deal of charity to starving German children -- this was in Massachusetts.

This is how it should be. One of our weapons must be stories, accounts of how we can be better and not worse than we are.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
# 10192

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
... When you consider Dimwit's mother came from Scotland, she must be rolling in her grave.

She's probably been spinning like a top for years.

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Wesley J

Silly Shipmate
# 6075

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
... When you consider Dimwit's mother came from Scotland, she must be rolling in her grave.

She's probably been spinning like a top for years.
Hook her up to a generator, get some energy?

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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)

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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378

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Nate Silver's calculations appear to be for Dimwit's last foot in the mouth episode. It should also be noted the Mueller investigation is Dimwit's Achilles heel. Yes, it will be tough, but when the Democrats can take Alabama, a state that voted 97% for Sessions (R) the last time he ran, I stay anything is possible.
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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Sunday night's episode of "Madam Secretary" (on CBS) was very pertinent, and really, really good. I will just tell you a tiny bit, less than what's in the trailer.

It seems that the president is not behaving like himself.

Watch the whole thing. You can probably find it online.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18396 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
... When you consider Dimwit's mother came from Scotland, she must be rolling in her grave.

She's probably been spinning like a top for years.
At one point (possibly during troubles in his first marriage), she asked "What kind of son have I raised?" That might be in the Wikipedia entry on her. (I read several relevant articles lately, and don't remember.)

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
quote:
Originally posted by Pigwidgeon:
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
... When you consider Dimwit's mother came from Scotland, she must be rolling in her grave.

She's probably been spinning like a top for years.
Hook her up to a generator, get some energy?
Hook him up and with all that hot air he could be a snowblower for New York State.

[ 15. January 2018, 12:35: Message edited by: Sioni Sais ]

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
I [say] anything is possible.

I am with you, Gramps. I did not mean to deflate anyone's hopes with that post; I realise hope, and a fighting spirit, are you weapons of choice against the Orange Groper. May the tide continue to turn.
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

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quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
Galluping Granny--at the time the words on the Statue of Liberty were included, places like Italy, and Ireland and Scotland where considered sh-tholes. When you consider Dimwit's mother came from Scotland, she must be rolling in her grave.

Technically, Ireland and Scotland were considered shite-holes. [Big Grin]

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Humani nil a me alienum puto

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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IIRC, his mom worked in domestic service, once she got here. I wonder if her son thinks that's a worthy sort of immigrant.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")

Posts: 18396 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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Cheers for the analyses guys. I'm very pleased that we are in with a shot.

I'm in a Father Ted appreciation group on facebook, and the admins ask people not to post political stuff. In one ep. Father Ted is caught making a racist joke, and then spends the rest of the episode trying to prove he's not a racist. I'm afraid that pictures of Trump with the headline "I'm not a racist" have proved just too tempting for some members.

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Human

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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607

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I do wish some enterprising reporter would has 44.1 how we tell racists from non-racists, then, if he isn't one. He claims to be "least racist person ever interviewed."

I personally would love to be able to claim that about myself, but I know it isn't true. I grew up in a structurally-racist society surrounded by institutional, legally-approved racism, reared by a dad who was oh-so-gentlemanly and also oh-so-racist, and I know even all these decades later, I STILL haven't managed to root out all the sneaky, racist, never-questioned-but-utterly-false assumptions I bought into from early childhood on up to my beginning-to-dodder present.

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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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We are marching on Saturday. New York, Denver, DC. Unfortunately my knee issues will probably prevent me from participating. I wonder if I should paint signs and distribute them again?

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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page

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Nicolemr
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# 28

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I wish I could make Saturday's march but I have family commitments..

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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!

Posts: 11752 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged



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