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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
Is the US unique in needing regular votes to continue public spending? Or is this a feature of many democracies, perhaps my own included, and I'd never paid any attention / realised?
It does seem unfair that payments to those employed by the government can be held and the employees told to go home... I imagine some at least are living pay cheque to pay cheque.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Ian Climacus
Liturgical Slattern
# 944
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
I have a class in a federal building tomorrow in DC, and I hope they don't close the government, otherwise I may not be able to get in.
Hope you find out before you set out. And I do hope your class goes ahead.
Posts: 7800 | From: On the border | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Ian--
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Is the US unique in needing regular votes to continue public spending? Or is this a feature of many democracies, perhaps my own included, and I'd never paid any attention / realised?
It does seem unfair that payments to those employed by the government can be held and the employees told to go home... I imagine some at least are living pay cheque to pay cheque.
Not an expert, but AIUI Congress has to approve the federal budget each year. It's a festive time, when they can show their constituents how careful they are with the constituents' tax dollars. Lots of finger-pointing, power-tripping, and general nastiness. Never mind what might *actually* be in the best interest of their constituents.
Newt Gingrich was one of the worst. {Makes warding-off sign.} He's Republican, and was Speaker of the House during Bill Clinton's presidency. (Not sure about before or after.) He led this movement called "Contract With America"--which, of course, was renamed "Contract *On* America". He set out to shut down the gov't. IIRC, BC decided to call his bluff, and the gov't was shut down. Lots of federal employees were hurt by the situation. Eventually, the gov't was up and running, and I think it was pretty clealy the Republicans' fault.
I read that, in case of shutdown, Social Security checks (mostly for seniors and folks with disabilities) should go out ok. But lots of SSA folks will be off work.
Can't these yahoos in Congress grow up?? Grrrr.
![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
From a Guardian opinion piece -
quote:
During previous shutdowns, calm heads ultimately prevailed: people who cared about good government, or at least worried about the polls that pointed to widespread public disgust. But this is now Donald Trump’s Washington and there are no calm heads to be found.
As a matter of principle, Republicans cannot come together to agree a deal on immigration. As a matter of sanity, Donald Trump cannot stop his racist belching or surrender the fantasy about his Mexican wall. This shutdown shit-show could run and run.
Interesting times.
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Is the US unique in needing regular votes to continue public spending? Or is this a feature of many democracies, perhaps my own included, and I'd never paid any attention / realised?
If a UK government budget bill was defeated in the Commons, this would trigger a general election (the last time this happened was when Gladstone was PM).
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Rocinante:
If a UK government budget bill was defeated in the Commons, this would trigger a general election (the last time this happened was when Gladstone was PM).
Actually not necessarily an election but the government would have to resign.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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Ricardus
Shipmate
# 8757
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Posted
IIRC, raising taxes without Parliamentary approval was one of the issues that caused Charles I to get his head cut off ...
[ 20. January 2018, 10:09: Message edited by: Ricardus ]
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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)
Posts: 7247 | From: Liverpool, UK | Registered: Nov 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Boogie quoted:
quote:
As a matter of principle, Republicans cannot come together to agree a deal on immigration. As a matter of sanity, Donald Trump cannot stop his racist belching or surrender the fantasy about his Mexican wall. This shutdown shit-show could run and run.
Which puts it rather well, IMHO.
![[Votive]](graemlins/votive.gif) America, that once-great nation, but now a laughing-stock.... ![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Is the US unique in needing regular votes to continue public spending? Or is this a feature of many democracies, perhaps my own included, and I'd never paid any attention / realised?
Not unique. In most countries, democratic or otherwise, someone has to keep an eye on the public till and authorize expenditures. In the U.S. that's the Congress. The U.S. is somewhat hampered by the kind of divided government you don't see in Westminster-style parliamentary systems though.
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
From a Guardian opinion piece -
quote:
As a matter of principle, Republicans cannot come together to agree a deal on immigration. As a matter of sanity, Donald Trump cannot stop his racist belching or surrender the fantasy about his Mexican wall. This shutdown shit-show could run and run.
Interesting times.
Or, to quote Scott Lemieux:
quote:
[T]o my eye it still boils down to “no Republican Speaker of the House could bring a bill that could get 60 Senate votes to a vote and keep their job.”
[ 20. January 2018, 12:42: Message edited by: Crœsos ]
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Clint Boggis
Shipmate
# 633
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Is the US unique in needing regular votes to continue public spending? Or is this a feature of many democracies, perhaps my own included, and I'd never paid any attention / realised?
Not unique. In most countries, democratic or otherwise, someone has to keep an eye on the public till and authorize expenditures. In the U.S. that's the Congress. The U.S. is somewhat hampered by the kind of divided government you don't see in Westminster-style parliamentary systems though.
Of course elected government must control spending but the question is whether decisions need re-approval periodically or government services continue until policy is changed.
The US way of doing things just seems daft to me. Think of ship (in days gone by, anyway - I'm watching 'The Onedin Line') where the man at the wheel is given a course to steer and continues on that heading until the a course change is ordered.
Posts: 1505 | From: south coast | Registered: Jun 2001
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
Is the US unique in needing regular votes to continue public spending? Or is this a feature of many democracies, perhaps my own included, and I'd never paid any attention / realised?
It does seem unfair that payments to those employed by the government can be held and the employees told to go home... I imagine some at least are living pay cheque to pay cheque.
You probably didn't notice it, but you're not alone, and I've had to inform theoretically well-informed folk (e.g., journalists, university academics, even political staff).
In most Westminster-origin parliaments, there are annual budget votes to authorize public spending. If a government can't get the vote through, it falls and usually there needs to be an election (or another party can sometimes manage to form a majority without an election).
In Canada, because parliaments were often not sitting for extensive periods, there is a mechanism called a governor-general's warrant which can obtain bridge funding, but it is not intended to substitute for regular appropriations.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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jedijudy
Organist of the Jedi Temple
# 333
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Posted
I think this article points out one of the reasons why members of Congress don't seem to care.
I doubt there's a one of them that knows what it's like to live paycheck to paycheck. Definitely the clown in the White House doesn't.
It's so rich that orange Don blames the Dems for the shutdown, but then he doesn't take the blame for anything, does he?
Please excuse me. I have to go find some kittens and puppies.
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Jasmine, little cat with a big heart.
Posts: 18017 | From: 'Twixt the 'Glades and the Gulf | Registered: Aug 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Do be careful with those kittens and puppies - don't cuddle them too hard.
BBC News is giving its main coverage to events in Kabul, but there are any number of other articles about America.
Virtually every one features a photograph of The Great Fat Orange Face, in glowering mode. He must be missing his golf....
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
And the lovely party, at which he hoped to bask in the adulation we persist in denying him up here in the real world.
It was a lovely day in the US for marching, but I'm tell there were marches worldwide. I didn't march but instead went to my painting class, where we showed each other pictures of the pussyhats we had knitted and the protest signs we had painted. Many of the students are federal employees and they aren't very happy about an unknown period without pay. In this area around the nation's capital there'll be real financial hardship by the end of the month.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
In this area around the nation's capital there'll be real financial hardship by the end of the month.
If there is any place that could withstand the hardship, I'm sure the wealthiest metro area in the United States of America is it.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
In most countries, democratic or otherwise, someone has to keep an eye on the public till and authorize expenditures. In the U.S. that's the Congress. The U.S. is somewhat hampered by the kind of divided government you don't see in Westminster-style parliamentary systems though.
OTOH, Congress doesn't have to dissolve and reorganize. That's my knee-jerk objection to parliamentary systems.
Parliament evidently works well for many countries. Here, we expect stability. If we had a parliament, the gov't would probably be reconstituted 2-3 times a month--at least.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
Heard an interesting commentary on NPR that pointed out since the use of earmarks--a system that appropriated money to a certain project in a specific congressional district--was eliminated the budgeting process has really slowed down eventually becoming these stop-gap measures. Since congresspersons don't have a vested interest in getting a budget passed anymore, they are willing to just kick the can down the road just a little at a time.
Problem is, people cannot plan research projects without knowing that they have long-term funding for them. Military effectiveness becomes a problem with delayed maintenance of planes, ships, tanks and other equipment and the US infrastructure continues to deteriorate.
It does not help to have someone who claims to be a deal maker say he will sign whatever immigration policy the Congress comes up with only to have him denounce what he had already said he would sign.
I hope this impass can be resolved quicky.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Personally, I think it might be a good idea to cut/withhold the salaries of members of Congress who organize a shutdown.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
I like the thought, GK!
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
A brief aside: Having bought 'Fire and Fury', and working my way through it, I find that there are quite a few misprints. On several occasions, there are letters missing or added, and at least in one place even the clearly erroneous repetition of an entire phrase.
Do others reading the book have the same - shall we call it - impression?
(The content of the book is fairly interesting though, so far.)
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Sounds as if the book was printed in some haste - was there a particular reason to hurry?
![[Paranoid]](graemlins/paranoid.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Golden Key:
If we had a parliament, the gov't would probably be reconstituted 2-3 times a month--at least.
I empty my trash more often than that. Why would it be bad to empty Congress' trash on that schedule?
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
O Miss Amanda, be careful what you wish for!
New governments every few weeks are not an unmixed blessing, as countries like Italy can testify...
OTOH, it would save the unmitigated b**tards from having all the fun...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea if all the politicians from the president down not only were not paid but also had their pay docked for the duration of the shut down. It might concentrate minds wonderfully!
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Stephen
Shipmate
# 40
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
O Miss Amanda, be careful what you wish for!
New governments every few weeks are not an unmixed blessing, as countries like Italy can testify...
OTOH, it would save the unmitigated b**tards from having all the fun...
IJ
You would need a system of PR though I suspect. Minority governments here have been remarkably stubborn survivors - witness the Callaghan government at the end of the 70s, although admittedly it started off as a ( very thin) majority government if my memory serves me correctly....
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Best Wishes
Stephen
'Be still,then, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the nations and I will be exalted in the earth' Ps46 v10
Posts: 3954 | From: Alto C Clef Country | Registered: May 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Yes indeed, though PR, too, is not necessarily an unmixed blessing...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I forgot to add that sometimes anything seems better than the yah-boo-sucks, infantile, toddler behaviour of our elected 'representatives'.
And we pay the bu**ers, too.....
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Sounds as if the book was printed in some haste - was there a particular reason to hurry?
IJ
The main subject of the book was trying to sue the publisher to stop the presses -- so, of course, the publisher ran the presses as fast as possible. (And I'm sure the publisher was grateful for the extra publicity provided by said subject of the book.)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea if all the politicians from the president down not only were not paid but also had their pay docked for the duration of the shut down. It might concentrate minds wonderfully!
Most of these folks are rich enough that it probably wouldn’t put too much of a squeeze on them.
Yesterday, the President tweeted that it was a beautiful day for all women to march ... in celebration of the amazing economic accomplishments of the last year, and low women’s unemployment.
This is third-degree black belt trolling, and I doubt that Trump was smart enough to come up with it on his own. His style is more the scorched earth, no holds barred personal insult. I have to think Sarah H. Sanders was responsible for that one. It’s much more in line with her standard press conference comebacks.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
The Fat Orange Git just won't accept how bigly unpopular he is, will he?
@Pigwidgeon - yes, understood. I think the reason for haste was mentioned before, but slipped my mind, such as it is.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
The tax bill and his impact on the Judiciary will hold even the squishy edges of the GOP base in line. He's now maneuvered the dims into a DACA compromise that will fund his border plans. I don't see how they escape it at this point.
Once that's done, 2020 will be a fait accompli.
IMO.
Apparently Trump could indeed have had a DACA/Wall compromise deal from Schuma, and may well have wanted it, but Kelly persuaded him to play hardball.
It remains to be seen who will win the blame game for the shutdown, but it seems a lot more risky for GOP 2018 election prospects than a DACA/Wall compromise. Particularly from someone who has lauded his deal making capability.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
The tax bill and his impact on the Judiciary will hold even the squishy edges of the GOP base in line. He's now maneuvered the dims into a DACA compromise that will fund his border plans. I don't see how they escape it at this point.
Once that's done, 2020 will be a fait accompli.
IMO.
Apparently Trump could indeed have had a DACA/Wall compromise deal from Schuma, and may well have wanted it, but Kelly persuaded him to play hardball.
It remains to be seen who will win the blame game for the shutdown, but it seems a lot more risky for GOP 2018 election prospects than a DACA/Wall compromise. Particularly from someone who has lauded his deal making capability.
A DACA deal will irritate some portion of Trump's base for certain, but it's difficult to see how the GOP will be damaged by it in 2018 when combined with an extension of funding for CHIP, and billions of dollars for the wall.
The dims may have been to the well one too many times trying to weaponize a shutdown. It is easy to see it blowing up in their faces.
We'll see what happens. As the old adage goes, "that's why we play the game."
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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no prophet's flag is set so...
Proceed to see sea
# 15560
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
The Fat Orange Git just won't accept how bigly unpopular he is, will he?
@Pigwidgeon - yes, understood. I think the reason for haste was mentioned before, but slipped my mind, such as it is.
IJ
I heard in my insomnia a BBC4 program, and in more civilized times on CBC1, enough to understand that with his base of people, he's basically a saviour, a Jesus figure. Thought of as honest and plain speaking. They may see pussy grabbing and racism as something which actually makes him more attractive. More like them. Excepting being filthy rich.
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Wesley J:
A brief aside: Having bought 'Fire and Fury', and working my way through it, I find that there are quite a few misprints. [...]
It is strangely satisfying to slag off the guy that slags off 45. From the UK paperback, published by Little, Brown, I give you p. 107, line 3:
quote:
Bannon was making his first official pubic (sic!) appearance of the Trump presidency [...]
Just sayin'.
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Alas, the copy editors are fewer at publishing houses today. Your complaint is not rare. People believe that spellcheck will do the job. But it takes an intelligent reader to spot that pubic/public error. A wiggly red line is not going to appear under it on your Word document.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
Indeed. However, I spurted Fake News, and retract: the passage is on p.127, not 107. Weak!
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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Sober Preacher's Kid
Presbymethegationalist
# 12699
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Posted
When the US split, they took half of Responsible Government but not all.
I think it a fine idea that if the Government cannot get a Supply bill through, it has to resign. Immediately.
The Crown, er, Executive does not take advice from chumps.
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NDP Federal Convention Ottawa 2018: A random assortment of Prots and Trots.
Posts: 7646 | From: Peterborough, Upper Canada | Registered: Jun 2007
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
On the [URL=so-called government shutdown], this writer notes how it's the poor and powerless who usually suffer.[/URL] There's always agitation to tie Congressional salaries to keeping government going, but most of them are millionaires. My idea is to tie keeping government open to the HVAC systems. If the government closes, ho heat or air conditioning. Not much bite today, when it was 60 degrees here, but next week, ah!
And, if you lose the heat, you clearly need to drain the pipes and shut down the water, it's only good housekeeping.
I wouldn't cut the electric until after that.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Dammit, didn't paste the url right, sorry. And now I've missed the edit window. Let me see if I can find it again.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Og, King of Bashan:
quote:
Originally posted by Stephen:
Perhaps it wouldn't be a bad idea if all the politicians from the president down not only were not paid but also had their pay docked for the duration of the shut down. It might concentrate minds wonderfully!
Most of these folks are rich enough that it probably wouldn’t put too much of a squeeze on them.
Yesterday, the President tweeted that it was a beautiful day for all women to march ... in celebration of the amazing economic accomplishments of the last year, and low women’s unemployment.
This is third-degree black belt trolling, and I doubt that Trump was smart enough to come up with it on his own. His style is more the scorched earth, no holds barred personal insult. I have to think Sarah H. Sanders was responsible for that one. It’s much more in line with her standard press conference comebacks.
Have to admit it's hilarious, no matter the actual source.
As to docking pay, Trump has donated his salary thus far so that would have no impact on him personally.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
There are two differences between Australia's federal system and the United States' system in the area of supply, two I want to point out anyway. No, three. First, we call bills about funding Govt supply bills. Second, these bills only require a simple majority in both houses. Third, if supply fails, there is a reserve power resting in the Crown to dismiss the Govt and call an election. I think this power only works as a fail-safe in Westminster systems, where the executive comes out of the legislature.
I think that supply bills can't deal with other subjects, to avoid the Government getting controversial matters through under threat of an election.
Elections are powerful persuaders of politicians. They really concentrate the mind, much more than the threat of the loss of benefits for a month or so. Even if the leadership of a party wants to play brinkmanship, they have to convince their members in vulnerable electorates to play along with them. That really does act as a brake on trashing the joint.
We have regularly changed Prime Ministers since 2008, but much of that has resulted from internal partyroom shenanigans. It's called knifing. The Government remains, its just that the Emperor has a new face. That's only instability in the media, who love the drama.
Nevertheless, this is all just me trying to display my intellect like a peacock displays its tail. I'll just try to do it on the other side of the park to people like Croessus. I reckon there is about as much chance of meaningful reform on this point in the USA as there is of Trump being happy with his youngest boy dating a Dreamer.
One last thing. I remember people slapping me down when I suggested the filibuster was unhelpful for effective Government. This little 60% rule comes out of the same box.
Toad, get to work. You're going to be late.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Alas, the copy editors are fewer at publishing houses today. Your complaint is not rare. People believe that spellcheck will do the job. But it takes an intelligent reader to spot that pubic/public error. A wiggly red line is not going to appear under it on your Word document.
I once met one of the last of the traditional copy editors in Canada, where she would read aloud the text, and her colleague check through it. On occasion, in a particularly idiosyncratic form of passive-aggression, she would psalm-chant the text as she knew it would particularly annoy her colleague.
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
romanlion--
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
As to docking pay, Trump has donated his salary thus far so that would have no impact on him personally.
FWIW, I only suggested that for members of Congress, not the president.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
Sorry. I didn't realize someone else had suggested it, too. I think romanlion's comment was addressed to them.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
What interesting news - to what deserving cause has Orange McGlumface donated his huuuuuuge salary?
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Soror Magna
Shipmate
# 9881
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
... As to docking pay, Trump has donated his salary thus far so that would have no impact on him personally.
Citation needed. A tax receipt for a charitable donation, for example.
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"You come with me to room 1013 over at the hospital, I'll show you America. Terminal, crazy and mean." -- Tony Kushner, "Angels in America"
Posts: 5430 | From: Caprica City | Registered: Jul 2005
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Augustine the Aleut
Shipmate
# 1472
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
When the US split, they took half of Responsible Government but not all.
I think it a fine idea that if the Government cannot get a Supply bill through, it has to resign. Immediately.
The Crown, er, Executive does not take advice from chumps.
SPK has identified the core of the problem. There is a theory that the US constitution took a view of parliamentary practice at a transitional stage, and fossilized it.
The preamble states very clearly the purpose of government (...establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty etc), and that the constitution is established to that end. When the institutions established by that constitution fail to deliver those ends, there is no mechanism to correct that. Perhaps the no-payment initiative might work (especially if health and pension benefits, and parking passes, are included!).
Posts: 6236 | From: Ottawa, Canada | Registered: Oct 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Soror Magna:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
... As to docking pay, Trump has donated his salary thus far so that would have no impact on him personally.
Citation needed. A tax receipt for a charitable donation, for example.
Yeah, I wouldn't believe him without a paper trail. Word around here is that he donated it to government agencies that he favors, but he takes it as a charitable deduction on his taxes. So we taxpayers pay twice.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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BroJames
Shipmate
# 9636
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Augustine the Aleut:
quote:
Originally posted by Sober Preacher's Kid:
When the US split, they took half of Responsible Government but not all.
I think it a fine idea that if the Government cannot get a Supply bill through, it has to resign. Immediately.
The Crown, er, Executive does not take advice from chumps.
SPK has identified the core of the problem. There is a theory that the US constitution took a view of parliamentary practice at a transitional stage, and fossilized it.
I was thinking about this when Crœsos posted upthread about cloture (one of those words where I had an idea what it meant without ever having met it before). Apart from Westminster practice, the US constitution was significantly influenced by what was going on in France at the time. Certainly it drew something from British parliamentary practice, but we need to look also to the ideas which found fruition in revolutionary France.
Posts: 3374 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
What interesting news - to what deserving cause has Orange McGlumface donated his huuuuuuge salary?
IJ
Government.
Is there any more deserving and noble cause than that?
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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