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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
A shutdown is a bad thing. We want to end them quickly. This seemed to involve four issues: the shutdown itself (which nobody likes), DACA (a matter of contention), the CHIP program (which almost nobody opposed but was used as a bargaining point) and money for Trump's wall (which is favored by few except Trump). The Democrats got the CHIP funding, Trump still does not have money for his wall, DACA is still an issue, and the shutdown ended (for now). In less than three weeks, we have another confrontation, but CHIP is off the table. I think the Democrats have done fairly well here.
Of course, anything might happen in three weeks.
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/22/trump-great-job-muncie-indiana-year-election
You can dig up similar stories from websites on all parts of the political spectrum. It's just another variant of 'people vote against their best interests', maybe they don't, maybe they just view their interests differently: https://youtu.be/BsqGITb0W4A?t=2852
Yeah, for some reason there seem to be a gazillion "Trump Supporters Still Support Trump" articles out there. While true, it hardly seems unexpected and thus hardly seems like news. Remember in 2009 when every week or so some major publication would run an article where they sought out Obama voters and discovered that they still supported Obama? Yeah, me neither.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
No, I agree about his dimbulbed supporters; they're shackled to him for all time.
I am talking about his reputation as the greatest dealmaker ever. Do you still believe that? Does anybody?
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
This seemed to involve four issues: the shutdown itself (which nobody likes), DACA (a matter of contention), the CHIP program (which almost nobody opposed but was used as a bargaining point) and money for Trump's wall (which is favored by few except Trump).
I'm not sure we can take universal support of CHIP as a given. Most of Congress on both sides of the aisle say they support CHIP, but funding for the program expired on September 30, 2017. If nobody opposed renewing it, it would have been renewed sometime in the last three and half months.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by HCH:
...Trump still does not have money for his wall...
But.... he told us the Mexicans are paying for it.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Those naughty Mexicans are Bad Brown Hombres, who don't wanna play with Orange McJaffaface...
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
(Was Mexico included in the list of sh**hole countries, BTW?)
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Yeah, for some reason there seem to be a gazillion "Trump Supporters Still Support Trump" articles out there.
Contrarianism of a certain sort sells, which doesn't mean that Trump's supporters don't have their own reasons for continuing to support him.
Equally widespread in parts of the press - and occasionally evident here - is that "Lyin' Don" will prove to be a disaster over four years, and that people will 'realise' this, and (unsaid) that even another centrist establishment hack can defeat him.
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
In what way did Schumer cede any part of the ACA? I have seen nothing to indicate that.
Schumer was basically caught in the middle. There were a group of 20 senators--a number of whom are up for reelection telling the leadership they would vote to extend the funding and there were a few more liberal Senators who are safe in their seats that wanted to hold out. Basically, he had to cut his loses as much as he could.
And, yes, the ball is now in the Republican court. If they don't come up with somethng within 16 days, the Democrats will be a little tougher.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
In what way did Schumer cede any part of the ACA?
It suspended tax increases from the ACA that were not to take effect until Illary was elected POTUS.
They had been suspended before.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Thanks for posting that article Chris. Its a timely reminder that those who take a different view of Trump can be nice people in other respects. I love that one person carries spare socks in his car to give to those who might need them.
It is also frightening to think how good a job the right has done in discrediting the mainstream media, an in the case of Fox, displacing them. They are trying to do that here too, but I am very much out of their target range given the media I consume.
It means, I fear, that the American articles I read tearing strips off Trump, have limited relevance.
Please, somebody, tell me I'm wrong.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
I was feeling rather disheartened by the vote yesterday until I read an op- ed in Wonkette suggesting that Shumer and Pelosi were shrewder negotiations than they’re being given credit for. It pointed out that the compromise provided political cover for both liberal Democrats in safe seats and for vulnerable red- state Dems who could be seen as moderate peacemakers. It took one group of vulnerable human hostages away from the Republicans for the next six years. And it puts the onus on McConnell to keep his promises or wind up as the fall guy in the next vote.It also suggested that virulent anti- immigrant Trump appointees like Stephen Miller and John Kelly might find themselves losing favor with the regime if the narrative starts focusing on the xenophobic nutbar wing of the GOP — bad optics and all that.
I hope it’s true.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Trump is going to have to make his mind up. I wonder what Mr Orange Jello really wants.
I don't think this hurts his feelings.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
Must admit, Zappa, that I'm feeling pretty queasy about that issue.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Boogie
Boogie on down!
# 13538
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Must admit, Zappa, that I'm feeling pretty queasy about that issue.
Yes, it’s not just the financial crash, it’s the lurch to the right which seems to follow them. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Garden. Room. Walk
Posts: 13030 | From: Boogie Wonderland | Registered: Mar 2008
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Rocinante
Shipmate
# 18541
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Must admit, Zappa, that I'm feeling pretty queasy about that issue.
Yes, it’s not just the financial crash, it’s the lurch to the right which seems to follow them.
We seem to be incapable of learning from history. We consume more than we produce, then we blame Other People when it inevitably goes tits-up, and unscrupulous politicians exploit this.
Posts: 384 | From: UK | Registered: Jan 2016
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Zappa:
quote:
Originally posted by romanlion:
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Trump is going to have to make his mind up. I wonder what Mr Orange Jello really wants.
I don't think this hurts his feelings.
This might dampen them a little
Anyone with a dollar and a thought in their head has seen these conditions building since
well before Trump's ascension. Growth is preferable to the alternative if we hope to absorb all the Keynesian idiocy of the last decade without an actual crash.
Could be too late anyway, who knows?
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Eirenist
Shipmate
# 13343
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Posted
Americans, just be grateful for this mercy: your President can't have people shot.
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'I think I think, therefore I think I am'
Posts: 486 | From: Darkest Metroland | Registered: Jan 2008
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Pooks
Shipmate
# 11425
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Americans, just be grateful for this mercy: your President can't have people shot.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
Posts: 1547 | Registered: May 2006
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romanlion
editorial comment
# 10325
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Pooks:
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Americans, just be grateful for this mercy: your President can't have people shot.
Actually. yes he can.
Without arrest and with a drone even.
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"You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook" - Harry S. Truman
Posts: 1486 | From: White Rose City | Registered: Sep 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Americans, just be grateful for this mercy: your President can't have people shot.
Now who's being naïve, Kay?
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
The term 'evangelical' is probably lost to us now. I only hope the word 'Christian' doesn't go down the toilet as well. It's not looking good.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Perhaps a subject for another thread, but what other word could be used as a substitute for 'Christian'?
Given that 'Christian' is now so often used in a pejorative sense...
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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HCH
Shipmate
# 14313
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Posted
If you want to ask depressing questions, try this: do you think the U.S. will survive as one nation for another 25 years?
Posts: 1540 | From: Illinois, USA | Registered: Nov 2008
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
The deception of the Christian community is pretty clearly forecast in the NT. But I think we just stand to our tacking, try to live out what we believe and pray daily for kingdom values to come into this crazy mixed up world.
Franklin Graham is either deceived, or actively participating in a deception. I've written to him. Calmly, reasonably, asking a few questions. If I get a stock reply, I'll write some more.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
A (free) article about the future of Evangelicalism in the era of Pussygrabber. Hint: not good.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Perhaps a subject for another thread, but what other word could be used as a substitute for 'Christian'?
Given that 'Christian' is now so often used in a pejorative sense...
IJ
I like Jesus Freak. It reminds me of the book, "Hey JC, I read your Book." Also, Elton John uses it, so it has cred with the over-50's.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Eirenist:
Americans, just be grateful for this mercy: your President can't have people shot.
Now who's being naïve, Kay?
Then there's Nixon's plot to kill columnist Jack Anderson (Mother Jones). The most pertinent part starts about halfway down.
Interestingly, the article ends with:
quote:
Moreover, the book once again reminds us that at a crucial point in US history—when war was being waged, when the society was divided over fundamental social issues—the man in charge of the government was a venal, dishonest, and essentially psychopathic thug, whether or not he ordered Jack Anderson killed. And that was a story that Anderson spent years exposing.
Sound like any current situation?
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Oh, and this one is even better: from a Baptist web site, thunder and brimstone.
Wow. OMG. "Pen warmed up in hell", except in the other place.
Someone should take that to a print shop, make it into huge posters, and put them up at evangelical churches, organizations, and gathering places.
Thx for posting this, Brenda.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Gramps49:
In what way did Schumer cede any part of the ACA?
Romanlion replied:
It suspended tax increases from the ACA that were not to take effect until Illary was elected POTUS.
Please give me a citation for your assertion, romanlion. I cannot see anything in the extension that does that.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Ohher
Shipmate
# 18607
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A (free) article about the future of Evangelicalism in the era of Pussygrabber. Hint: not good.
I'm not, and have never been, an evangelical Christian. I do have one quibble with this article, which two or three times references "rigorous theology." It's the very lack of this, in my view, which has rendered the evangelical point of view (at least as I've encountered it where I live) utterly repellent to me. To me, a rigorous theology is one which wrestles with the many paradoxes living at the heart of the faith. A rigorous theology, to me, comes to grips with human failings not by simply acknowledging and forgiving these, but by pressing for authentic behavioral change.
As far as I'm concerned, the evangelicals I've met and dealt with seem to represent not any "rigorous theology," but rather a sort of Christianity-Lite.
Not that I personally can lay any claim to possessing a rigorous theology, or even to being much of a Christian.
That said, I second the motion made above about Miguel de la Torre's fire and brimstone: let that word go forth.
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From the Land of the Native American Brave and the Home of the Buy-One-Get-One-Free
Posts: 374 | From: New Hampshire, USA | Registered: Jun 2016
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
A (free) article about the future of Evangelicalism in the era of Pussygrabber. Hint: not good.
This observation should fall under the "duh" category, I should think?:
quote:
A 2016 PRRI study found that the most common reason people give up on their childhood faith is that they no longer believe in its teachings.
What this article doesn't discuss is how these people can be so unyielding in some areas of sexual prudery, and then embrace and defend to the hilt a pussy-grabbing philanderer as being not only just fine, but exactly what our country needs. There is no hint in this article of the cognitive dissonance.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Don't they say that God sometimes uses sinners? I think they point to Cyrus for that good old Old Testament warrant.
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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mousethief
Ship's Thieving Rodent
# 953
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Don't they say that God sometimes uses sinners?
Out of one side of their mouth, yes.
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This is the last sig I'll ever write for you...
Posts: 63536 | From: Washington | Registered: Jul 2001
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
IIRC, the only sin was that Cyrus was a Gentile.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
Ohher is right. It is precisely the lack of rigour in conservative evangelicalism which causes both the laager mentality and the moving away of the intelligent and questioning e.g Rachel Held Evans.
Plus the young see traditional approaches re LGBT folks as unkind, unfeeling, bigoted, hypocritical about the complexities of human sexuality.
Late edit.
It might be worth adding that on this side of the pond there is scope for intelligent questioning amongst evangelicals. There are IMO many who are trapped in the doleful self-enclosing ideology exposed by the article. But by no means all. Folks like Rob Bell, Brian McLaren, are very popular amongst all the intelligent young evangelicals I know. And none of them think the traditional attitudes towards LGBT are right.
[ 25. January 2018, 10:00: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
Another (free) article, rather sad: one of the great Bible colleges in the nation, unable to let go of its racism.
It is worth remembering that the foofaraw about LGBT is fairly recent. There was a deliberate policy change, engineered by Jerry Falwell and others of his kidney, when it became plain that naked racism was no longer going to fly in the US. They needed a new hobbyhorse to ride, and gays are easy to persecute.
The root sin in this country is racism. The unwillingness to sit beside Other People in the pews and treat them like brothers and sisters in Christ split the American church; it's why they are Southern Baptists or African Methodists. We take one step forward (Obama!) and then a big step back.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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lilBuddha
Shipmate
# 14333
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
quote:
Originally posted by chris stiles:
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Another (free) article, rather sad: one of the great Bible colleges in the nation, unable to let go of its racism.
"But many of our donors are old, wealthy, white people and they have a certain idea of what godliness looks like"
It looks like a mirror.
Privilege is a difficult thing. It is invisible to many who have it and when you challenge it, you challenge who the person is.
When one's identity is challenged, Hell even when one's ideas are challenged, it is a threat.
As in fight or flight response, as in addressing the issue isn't going to happen. Defence at all costs.
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I put on my rockin' shoes in the morning
Hallellou, hallellou
Posts: 17627 | From: the round earth's imagined corners | Registered: Dec 2008
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chris stiles
Shipmate
# 12641
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by lilBuddha:
Privilege is a difficult thing. It is invisible to many who have it and when you challenge it, you challenge who the person is.
When one's identity is challenged, Hell even when one's ideas are challenged, it is a threat.
For a good illustration of this - look at the comments under that article. There are a whole bunch of people claiming that racism can't exist at MBI because they personally didn't see it, and that talk of privilege is divisive (complete with cheering from the peanut gallery)
Posts: 4035 | From: Berkshire | Registered: May 2007
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
Dispensationalism is a persistent weed, I'm afraid. And obsession with the future blinds people to responsibilities in the present.
It's just another illustration of crap theology. This time about eschatology.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
I always thought God had better taste than to employ someone as odious as the Cinnamon Hitler to usher in the Last Days.
![[Disappointed]](graemlins/disappointed.gif)
OTOH, it'll get the whole bloody business over and done with sooner rather than later.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Wesley J
Silly Shipmate
# 6075
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
[...] I seriously doubt he is the Lamb of God, so does this make him the Great Satan? The link is from Newsweek, a free click.
To be frank, from the link, Stucky the mummified dog did catch my attention somewhat more. And looks just as terrifying, and terrified!
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Be it as it may: Wesley J will stay. --- Euthanasia, that sounds good. An alpine neutral neighbourhood. Then back to Britain, all dressed in wood. Things were gonna get worse. (John Cooper Clarke)
Posts: 7354 | From: The Isles of Silly | Registered: May 2004
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