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Source: (consider it)
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Thread: Oops - your Trump presidency discussion thread
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Right.
My head hurts, now, so I think I'll have a lie-down.
If the Apocalypse occurs meanwhile, I'll worry about it then.
If I live.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
Is anyone surprised that the PG is now (falsely) claiming that his State of the Union speech was the most-watched ever?
[ 01. February 2018, 15:04: Message edited by: Pigwidgeon ]
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Nicolemr
Shipmate
# 28
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Posted
Not surprised in the least.
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On pilgrimage in the endless realms of Cyberia, currently traveling by ship. Now with live journal!
Posts: 11803 | From: New York City "The City Carries On" | Registered: May 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Well, he certainly seems to be attracting the bigliest number of opprobrious epithets....
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
@ Croesos
Well done re Carter Page. But I'm not sure that inconvenient facts bother Trump, or his supporters, or (misery of miseries) the GOP members of the House Intel Committee.
You're quite right about Fox News. A free enterprise propaganda machine. Goebbels types no longer necessary. Money and a lust for power will do.
Seriously, this departure from truth is now getting serious.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Seriously, this departure from truth is now getting serious.
What do you mean "now"? I think we passed "getting serious" with yellowcake, smoking guns that are mushroom clouds, and a whole bunch of dead Iraqis. From my perspective the reason the current American administration is so shameless is because past American administrations have shown that they'll never be held accountable for their lies.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
Fair point. It just seems more blatant.
But you are right to point back to Iraq. And maybe before that, to the legalisation of renditions and detentions as part of the war on terror.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Pigwidgeon
Ship's Owl
# 10192
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is either exceptionally depressing, or a spectacular example of why nobody named Trump should try and meddle with theology. Is Eric actually claiming that his father is God? This is a free click.
Maybe the Democrats should have 'taken a knee'.
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"...that is generally a matter for Pigwidgeon, several other consenting adults, a bottle of cheap Gin and the odd giraffe."
~Tortuf
Posts: 9835 | From: Hogwarts | Registered: Aug 2005
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Gramps49
Shipmate
# 16378
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Posted
It is next to impossible to know how many religions there are in the United States, but it is safe to say not all of them are monotheistic much less Christian.
Regards the number of people who watched SOTUS. 45.6 mil. The number who watched Obama's first SOTUS 48 mil. The number watched George W Bush's first SOTUS 68 mil. The highest recorded. Looks like the trend is downward.
Posts: 2193 | From: Pullman WA | Registered: Apr 2011
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is either exceptionally depressing, or a spectacular example of why nobody named Trump should try and meddle with theology. Is Eric actually claiming that his father is God? This is a free click.
ISTM he's saying that the darn Democrats didn't stand at the mention of God, Mom, and apple pie. He may have his dad mixed up in that tangle, but I don't think he's intentionally saying his dad is God.
YMMV.
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is either exceptionally depressing, or a spectacular example of why nobody named Trump should try and meddle with theology. Is Eric actually claiming that his father is God? This is a free click.
Compulsory applause: takes me back to dear old Leonid Brezhnev.
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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"
(Paul Sinha, BBC)
Posts: 24276 | From: Newport, Wales | Registered: Apr 2004
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Sounds as if Eric's even more of a fruitcake than his Pa.
BTW, is it just me, or do others read 'SOTU' as 'STFU'? Wishful thinking, maybe.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
Frost and Nixon is on tonight, and Mrs T. is watching. It made me look forward to the day when Trump says, "But as I leave you I want you to know just think how much you'll be missing. You won't have Trump to kick around anymore."
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Frost and Nixon is on tonight, and Mrs T. is watching. It made me look forward to the day when Trump says, "But as I leave you I want you to know just think how much you'll be missing. You won't have Trump to kick around anymore."
You might want to be careful what historical repetitions you wish for here. Nixon made that speech in 1962.
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Stetson
Shipmate
# 9597
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Posted
And I'll take this opportunity to observe that Frank Langella as Nixon is probably a case of an actor making a rather awkward transition from stage to screen in the same role.
He's got the mannerisms down perfectly, but he really doesn't look the part at all. I assume these things weren't a big problem in the stage show, where the audience isn't paying close attention to how the actors look. But it was lethal on the silver screen.
(Though I did read one critic praise Langella for his "Brezhnevesque Nixon", so maybe that was the point? Not sure why you'd do that, though.)
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I have the power...Lucifer is lord!
Posts: 6574 | From: back and forth between bible belts | Registered: Jun 2005
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Breaking news from the BBC.
Does this mean that the Lord of Lies is about to shoot himself in the foot, or will it be yet more evidence of decisive leadership by a stable genius?
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
Nunes will stand or fall by the accuracy or otherwise of the memo.
His behaviour is clearly partisan. But he has the votes in the House Intel Committee.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
Nunes will stand or fall by the accuracy or otherwise of the memo.
Link (be patient, lots of other people going there too).
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
For those who are interested, here's "the memo", courtesy of the Washington Post.
From my perspective it looks like the same kind of "OMG! Who would ever suspect sweet, innocent Carter Page of being a Russian asset?" narrative from the fever swamps discussed here yesterday.
In other news, Happy Groundhog Day!
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
I don’t know if it’s been mentioned here yet, but Rachel Maddow shared with her viewers the Reuters news reports of major Russian intelligence officials being invited to the White House in the past few months — even the head of Russia’s equivalent of the CIA. And Reuters only knows this because they monitor Russian news outlets which broadcast this info — bragged about it, actually — to Russians. The White House had a news blackout of these visits/ meetings — only the Russian press was allowed in.
MAGA? More like MRGA.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
It's certainly hard not to get the impression the Russians have Trump exactly where they want him, and Trump can assuredly be relied upon to put hope of self-preservation ahead of anything like setting damaging precedents for the confidentiality of intelligence briefings, or indeed anything much else.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
I've read the memo. Pretty sloppy bit of work with some weasely language thrown in.
Nunes can't be that bright, otherwise he would never have allowed himself to get inveigled into this. Apparently his nickname is 'Inspector Clouseau'.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
I've read it too.
I think it does little except superficially cast doubt on the impartiality of the Mueller investigation. Apparently most of its key points can be refuted, but that doesn't matter one way or the other. It barely pretends to tell the truth. It's not desiged to hold up in a court of law, it's designed to instil doubt about the investigation in the court of public opinion, especially those who will never read the memo but only get summaries of its alleged contents from Fox News and the like.
The one glimmer of hope is that it smacks of desperation.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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LutheranChik
Shipmate
# 9826
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Posted
Apparently some of Nunes’ colleagues privately consider him a laughably not- too- bright suckup — but of course that never translates into their criticizing him on the job.
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Simul iustus et peccator
http://www.lutheranchiklworddiary.blogspot.com
Posts: 6462 | From: rural Michigan, USA | Registered: Jul 2005
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
At any rate, it represents a new low in 'alternative facts'.
One of things it omits was the obligation to present information about significant finding from the previous 90 days wiretaps. Presumably those findings are classified? But I imagine they would be part of the case for renewal.
If there was nothing there, presumably that would have gone in the Nunes memo. The dog that didn't bark in the night?
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I've read it too.
I think it does little except superficially cast doubt on the impartiality of the Mueller investigation.
Actually Nunes' memo says nothing at all about the Mueller investigation. This all relates to the FBI's counter-intelligence wing. I guess we're supposed to conclude that the FBI and the DOJ are hotbeds of liberal, anti-Trump bias so therefore anyone selected by (Trump-appointed) Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein to investigate connections between the Trump campaign and Russia must be some kind of hatchet man.
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Humani nil a me alienum puto
Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001
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Og, King of Bashan
Ship's giant Amorite
# 9562
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Posted
The fact that they dropped it on Friday is possibly telling. Friday is usually when you drop news that you want people to miss as they get ready for the weekend.
Maybe there was something to the scheduling of the drop, but the sense I get is that the memo as an idea was far more powerful than the memo in fact.
Trump will no doubt blame today's stock market dip on the revelations. If he ever does try to fire Mueller (yes, I've said it's happening many times before and it still hasn't,) he'll probably point to all the times that breaking news in the investigation corresponded with a market dip as his justification. You can hear it now- there was no collusion, this is all just sour grapes and fake news that is doing harm to the economy and has to stop.
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"I like to eat crawfish and drink beer. That's despair?" ― Walker Percy
Posts: 3259 | From: Denver, Colorado, USA | Registered: May 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I've read it too.
I think it does little except superficially cast doubt on the impartiality of the Mueller investigation.
Actually Nunes' memo says nothing at all about the Mueller investigation. This all relates to the FBI's counter-intelligence wing. I guess we're supposed to conclude that the FBI and the DOJ are hotbeds of liberal, anti-Trump bias so therefore anyone selected by (Trump-appointed) Deputy Attorney General Rosenstein to investigate connections between the Trump campaign and Russia must be some kind of hatchet man.
That's more or less what I meant. I think the Mueller investigation is the target even if it's not the subject of the memo.
I can see a "fruit of the poisonous tree" argument being attempted too.
[ 02. February 2018, 20:12: Message edited by: Eutychus ]
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Stetson:
quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
Frost and Nixon is on tonight, and Mrs T. is watching. It made me look forward to the day when Trump says, "But as I leave you I want you to know just think how much you'll be missing. You won't have Trump to kick around anymore."
You might want to be careful what historical repetitions you wish for here. Nixon made that speech in 1962.
Lord save us!
![[Hot and Hormonal]](icon_redface.gif)
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Human
Posts: 1571 | From: Romsey, Vic, AU | Registered: May 2014
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I can see a "fruit of the poisonous tree" argument being attempted too.
Fox News is revving up.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
We had Franklin Graham on the BBC Sunday programme this morning, musing how God had influenced the voting to get Trump in. Among other things. Sunday programme
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
God used Russian interference to ensure that Trump was elected? God is continuing to use Russian interference to turn US Government and constitution into a pigs breakfast? God has so arranged things to provide the US with an administration whose abiding characterisc, exemplified by its leader, is that it lies?
A nice Scottish insult springs to mind."
"Awaa an' bile yur heed!".
(Go away and boil your head!)
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Golden Key
Shipmate
# 1468
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Posted
IIRC, there was a line in the SOTU to the effect of "if we're good, God will bless and protect us".
Shades of Pat Robertson. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?" (Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon")
--"Oh, Peace Train, save this country!" (Yusuf/Cat Stevens, "Peace Train")
Posts: 18601 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001
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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430
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Posted
Franklin Graham is an utter gobshite, and a shame and reproach to his poor Dad, who must be wondering what kind of monster he has had the misfortune to sire.
IJ
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Our words are giants when they do us an injury, and dwarfs when they do us a service. (Wilkie Collins)
Posts: 10151 | From: Behind The Wheel Again! | Registered: Jan 2004
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alienfromzog
Ship's Alien
# 5327
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Barnabas62:
quote:
Originally posted by Eutychus:
I can see a "fruit of the poisonous tree" argument being attempted too.
Fox News is revving up.
![[Killing me]](graemlins/killingme.gif)
I find it strangely reassuring that Fox covers it like this; the desperate attacks on the investigation tell you how much is really there. Compare and contrast with the Starr investigation. The hypocrisy is breathtaking.
But the worrying part is this; I don't think many of them really think this will kill the investigation. What they're going for is the discrediting of truth. ![[Mad]](angryfire.gif)
And we shall see if the US constitution is strong enough to survive Trump and Trumpism...
We are fighting the same war in the UK, just different battles:
quote:
From the FT
"Ministers now have a choice. They can opt for an honest Brexit in which they argue in public that people should pay an economic price for their policies. Or they can opt for a dishonest Brexit, pretending they have a secret plan for economic nirvana and trashing their own internal economic evidence. Ministers’ initial reaction in disowning the analysis suggests deception is the government’s central Brexit strategy."
Truth matters.
AFZ
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Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts.
[Sen. D.P.Moynihan]
An Alien's View of Earth - my blog (or vanity exercise...)
Posts: 2150 | From: Zog, obviously! Straight past Alpha Centauri, 2nd planet on the left... | Registered: Dec 2003
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by alienfromzog:
Truth matters.
AFZ
Sums it up. Both sides of the pond.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
# 18061
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Posted
This is the sin against the Holy Spirit that Jesus talks about. You can't debate or discuss stuff, if you can't fix upon truth. There's no common ground for discourse. Bad money drives out good.
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Science fiction and fantasy writer with a Patreon page
Posts: 6378 | From: Washington DC | Registered: Mar 2014
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
My phrase "the abiding characteristic of this administration is that it lies', is not original. It originated with Seymour Hersh. Veteran investigatory journalist who is probably best known for exposing the My Lai massacre. The administration he was referring to was the Nixon administration.
When it comes to lying, the Nixon administration cannot hold a candle to this one.
[ 04. February 2018, 17:25: Message edited by: Barnabas62 ]
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768
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Posted
My sister gave the the box set of "Rev" for my birthday, and I have just realised that "Darren" who turned up with his followers in series 1 had something in common with Franklin Graham.
Posts: 5833 | Registered: May 2009
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
The liar in chief
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
This is the sin against the Holy Spirit that Jesus talks about. You can't debate or discuss stuff, if you can't fix upon truth. There's no common ground for discourse. Bad money drives out good.
Here is a long and scary article on just what has happened in the last couple of weeks about that memo. As someone who's been trying to follow events and got very confused, its basic premise makes sense to me (even if I don't understand social media well), as does its conclusion: quote:
So what are the lessons of #releasethememo? Regardless of how much of the campaign was American and how much was Russian, it’s clear there was a massive effort to game social media and put the Nunes memo squarely on the national agenda—and it worked to an astonishing degree. The bottom line is that the goals of the two overlapped, so the origin—human, machine or otherwise—doesn’t actually matter. What matters is that someone is trying to manipulate us, tech companies are proving hopelessly unable or unwilling to police the bad actors manipulating their platforms, and politicians are either clueless about what to do about computational propaganda or—in the case of #releasethememo—are using it to achieve their goals.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Amanda B. Reckondwythe
Dressed for Church
# 5521
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Let this brighten your day: internet jokes about the memo.
Alas, into what watered-down ink the pen of sarcasm has dipped! Those jokes are so lame that they can park in a handicapped space even without a wheelchair license plate.
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"I take prayer too seriously to use it as an excuse for avoiding work and responsibility." -- The Revd Martin Luther King Jr.
Posts: 10542 | From: The Great Southwest | Registered: Feb 2004
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
quote:
Originally posted by Brenda Clough:
Let this brighten your day: internet jokes about the memo. Should be a free click!
Very droll. But thinking this is something simply to be laughed at is dangerous.
To my mind the damage the memo has done is first and foremost the precedent it sets about declassifying intelligence community information, and the damage that does to the relationship of trust required to share intelligence within government.
Moreover, the article I linked to makes the case that the decision to publish the memo was made under pressure from orchestrated agitprop funnelled via social media. Rather than reporting the news, the actual media seem to be in the process of becoming its creators. The president's thinking and decisions can apparently be swayed by whatever he's just seen on Fox and Friends.
The damage this causes is irrespective of the contents of the memo, and the really scary thing is the delivery method - pressure from agitprop. People who are dismissing it (with an almost audible sigh of relief) as a nothingburger are missing the point.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
Disturbing stuff, Eutychus.
The doleful conclusion, given the first Amendment, is that the Democrats will have to develop their own orchestrated agitprop machinery, or lose the social media battleground. There is absolutely zero chance of bi-partisan legislation to shut these processes down.
Either way, the Russians win. The US Democracy becomes a pig's breakfast. Mutual wallowing in social media mud.
O Brave New World .....
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
It all depends how perennial the adage about fooling all the people all the time is.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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Barnabas62
Host
# 9110
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Posted
Trouble is, you just have to fool enough.
But the fickleness of social media and the relentless search for novelty suggests to me that the troubles in the Trump marriage will go viral pretty soon. That topic is tinder dry. Wouldn't take much to 'light the blue touchpaper'.
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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?
Posts: 21397 | From: Norfolk UK | Registered: Feb 2005
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Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081
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Posted
Perhaps. But that does a disservice in another way, with the Trump persona overshadowing actual developments in policy. He is partly to blame for this mess, but he also serves as a useful distraction for those who (unlike him) have a long-term political agenda at work.
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Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy
Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002
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