homepage
  roll on christmas  
click here to find out more about ship of fools click here to sign up for the ship of fools newsletter click here to support ship of fools
community the mystery worshipper gadgets for god caption competition foolishness features ship stuff
discussion boards live chat cafe avatars frequently-asked questions the ten commandments gallery private boards register for the boards
 
Ship of Fools


Post new thread  Post a reply
My profile login | | Directory | Search | FAQs | Board home
   - Printer-friendly view Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » Distinct but not separate

 - Email this page to a friend or enemy.    
Source: (consider it) Thread: Distinct but not separate
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
OK. God is (the) one (and only ultimate) essence, (the) one (and only ultimate) being (that which is) i.e. philosophical, existential entity, substance, ousia, nature, NOT a person, NOT a hypostasis, consisting of three DISTINCT but NOT SEPARATE Persons, hypostases.

Is there ANY analogy for that (as the primary colour or states of water ones don't work)?

A tripod has three legs, one can envisage a (red, green and blue!) tripod that is three 'kneed', mutually interpenetrating (perichoretic) legs each of which is a-(distinct primary coloured)-leg-of-a-tripod; they cannot be separated and there still be a tripod?

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Jengie jon

Semper Reformanda
# 273

 - Posted      Profile for Jengie jon   Author's homepage   Email Jengie jon   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think I will be doing Celtic knotwork again probably on a Mobius band.

Basically, it is possible to do knotwork on a circular object so that at any time you look there appear to be three interweaving strands when if you trace it around with a finger you find there to be only one.

Jengie

--------------------
"To violate a persons ability to distinguish fact from fantasy is the epistemological equivalent of rape." Noretta Koertge

Back to my blog

Posts: 20894 | From: city of steel, butterflies and rainbows | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Cool! And there's the triquetra of course. Is there anything else conceptually? 3-phase AC?!

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Dafyd
Shipmate
# 5549

 - Posted      Profile for Dafyd   Email Dafyd   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
Is there ANY analogy for that (as the primary colour or states of water ones don't work)?

All analogies break down at some point, or they wouldn't be analogies.
Everything of which we're directly aware is made of material stuff. God is not made of material stuff. Most of the problems with most analogies are due to the fact that things made of material stuff occupy space and therefore exclude anything else made from material stuff from that same space. Anything made from material stuff can be divided into smaller parts (until you get down to the atomic or subatomic level). The three persons of the Trinity are not parts of God.

The other problem is that apart from human beings everything we're aware of is not personal.

One suggestion: I'd pick the integer line. One is different from two and two is different from three. But you can't define one and two without implicity defining three and the rest of the integers. Two is what you get when you add one plus one. Once you've defined that you have implicitly defined the result of adding one plus two, one plus (one plus two), and all the rest. Each integer implies the existence of all the others. The existence of one integer is the existence of all the integers.
In an analogous way, the existence each person of the Trinity is the existence of the others.

[ 31. May 2017, 12:52: Message edited by: Dafyd ]

--------------------
we remain, thanks to original sin, much in love with talking about, rather than with, one another. Rowan Williams

Posts: 10567 | From: Edinburgh | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

 - Posted      Profile for quetzalcoatl   Email quetzalcoatl   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
An old analogy was with light as a wave and a set of particles. I never found it very helpful really, partly because it is a dual system, not triple, but it shows how something can be something else, and also itself.

It reminds me of the old Zen saying, form is emptiness, and emptiness form. But this is not really a relationship at all. Or is it?

--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

 - Posted      Profile for no prophet's flag is set so...   Author's homepage   Email no prophet's flag is set so...   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Make yourself a drink Martin. Say some water with bubbles (Perrier etc) with some Weyburn rye, and pop in an ice cube. If you want to chew up Jesus the Ice Cube, or knock back the Holy Rye Spirit you may, but probably better shaken or stirred. God will make you burp if you drink him too fast.

[ 31. May 2017, 13:21: Message edited by: no prophet's flag is set so... ]

--------------------
Out of this nettle, danger, we pluck this flower, safety.
\_(ツ)_/

Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
fletcher christian

Mutinous Seadog
# 13919

 - Posted      Profile for fletcher christian   Email fletcher christian   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Traditionally the Saint Brigid's Cross was three-armed. Here.
Today they tend to be four-armed though.

--------------------
'God is love insaturable, love impossible to describe'
Staretz Silouan

Posts: 5235 | From: a prefecture | Registered: Jul 2008  |  IP: Logged
Eutychus
From the edge
# 3081

 - Posted      Profile for Eutychus   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Here's my usual example. The legs of a one/three-legged table that are made from a single piece of wood (same essence), distinct, but not separate [Angel]

[ETA more pictures here and here if it helps]

[ 31. May 2017, 13:47: Message edited by: Eutychus ]

--------------------
Let's remember that we are to build the Kingdom of God, not drive people away - pastor Frank Pomeroy

Posts: 17944 | From: 528491 | Registered: Jul 2002  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Thanks guys. Dafyd in particular:

'The three persons of the Trinity are not parts of God'.

God is one in essence and three in person (not one and three in the same attribute which would be a contradiction as one is not three ... unless superposition applies?).

The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons (each has an 'I', a distinct centre of consciousness in relationship with the other two 'You's), each Person is fully God.

God is not fully Father
God is not fully Son
God is not fully Holy Spirit

correct so far?

OR are the Persons in superposition? Regardless:

God is fully Father
God is fully Son
God is fully Holy Spirit

as that is not contradiction? Contradiction would be God is fully Father AND God is not fully Father etc?

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

 - Posted      Profile for mark_in_manchester   Email mark_in_manchester   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I liked your 'ac' joke. Engineering jokes require a somewhat select audience (you have to find someone who understands the joke, and then further subdivide that small number to find those who enjoy jokes) especially when a minor in another specialism is required, such as theology or (as below) psychotherapy.

I heard a great one at work the other day, which I think was off the cuff -

"What is it with Dr x?"

"Fucking bipolar. Typical control engineer - either hard up against one stop or the other".


What's wrong with the rgb analogy? Father, Son and Holy Spirit not mutually orthogonal, I guess?

--------------------
"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged
balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

 - Posted      Profile for balaam   Author's homepage   Email balaam   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
An old analogy was with light as a wave and a set of particles. I never found it very helpful really, partly because it is a dual system, not triple, but it shows how something can be something else, and also itself.

Unless you go with string theory that particles are also vibrations. Everything is a vibration.

Tangent over.

--------------------
Last ever sig ...

blog

Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

 - Posted      Profile for Alan Cresswell   Email Alan Cresswell   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
You can't do better than Saint Patrick

--------------------
Don't cling to a mistake just because you spent a lot of time making it.

Posts: 32413 | From: East Kilbride (Scotland) or 福島 | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
balaam

Making an ass of myself
# 4543

 - Posted      Profile for balaam   Author's homepage   Email balaam   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
God is fully Father
God is fully Son
God is fully Holy Spirit

I'm not sure.

It's fine if you reverse it:

The Father is fully God
The Son is fully God
The Spirit is fully God

Plus the will of God is one:

The will of the Father is the same as the will of the Son is the same as the will of the Spirit.

But in the end we have a problem, God is bigger than anything we can describe. If you can describe it it isn't fully God.

Finding what God is like is like looking for a needle in a haystack wearing boxing gloves. In the dark.

--------------------
Last ever sig ...

blog

Posts: 9049 | From: Hen Ogledd | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
agingjb
Shipmate
# 16555

 - Posted      Profile for agingjb   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

--------------------
Refraction Villanelles

Posts: 464 | From: Southern England | Registered: Jul 2011  |  IP: Logged
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

 - Posted      Profile for Crœsos     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Alan Cresswell:
You can't do better than Saint Patrick

Blogger Fred Clark noted, in response to that video (among other things), that the doctrine of the Trinity seems more geared towards generating new forms of heresy than actually explaining anything.

quote:
As the Irish twins with the Scottish accents in that video illustrate, one is “allowed” to recite the lawyerly formulations of the Athanasian Creed, but if you stray at all from that narrow path or attempt to say anything more — any positive statements, clarifications, analogies, applications — you’re screwed. And as that video shows, this doctrine creates so many different ways in which you can be screwed that it’s hard not to suspect this was the intention — a doctrine more useful for generating and then condemning heresies than for avoiding error.


--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
@mark_in_manchester: rgb breaks down because you can separate them.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

 - Posted      Profile for no prophet's flag is set so...   Author's homepage   Email no prophet's flag is set so...   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
@mark_in_manchester: rgb breaks down because you can separate them.

quote:
Originally posted by agingjb:
"Father, if you are willing, take this cup from me; yet not my will, but yours be done."

I still think the mixed drink works
Posts: 11498 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
mark_in_manchester

not waving, but...
# 15978

 - Posted      Profile for mark_in_manchester   Email mark_in_manchester   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
OK, you can separate them...

What about "But very truly I tell you, it is for your good that I am going away. Unless I go away, the Advocate will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." ? (John 17 v7)

(Not only is biblehub great for backsliders like me who can't remember chapter and verse - even f*cking Google has the Trinity on the brain; if you type 'if I do not go away' it helpfully prompts you with the next words 'the comforter'. So many web folks must be wondering about all this.)

--------------------
"We are punished by our sins, not for them" - Elbert Hubbard
(so good, I wanted to see it after my posts and not only after those of shipmate JBohn from whom I stole it)

Posts: 1596 | Registered: Oct 2010  |  IP: Logged
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

 - Posted      Profile for Crœsos     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I am He
As You are He
As You are Me
And We are all together

- Mmt 6:1-4

Works as well as anything else.

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Paul.
Shipmate
# 37

 - Posted      Profile for Paul.   Author's homepage   Email Paul.   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Supposedly this is very good. I say "supposedly" based on the reactions of some of the people I follow. Personally I found it more annoying than anything.

Although I did sort of like:

quote:
Have you come up with a really helpful analogy? Well done! Now please don't tell anyone about it, ever

Posts: 3689 | From: UK | Registered: Jun 2004  |  IP: Logged
Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

 - Posted      Profile for Lamb Chopped   Email Lamb Chopped   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I'm obviously not obeying that last...

Fire (to steal-and adapt a bit--from Martin Luther)

A fire includes in itself:

  • heat,
  • light,
  • and consuming (the action of transforming fuel into something else).
There is no fire that has not all these three characteristics. They cannot be separated out of the fire-as-a-whole.

Neither can they be mistaken for one another.

--------------------
Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

Posts: 20059 | From: off in left field somewhere | Registered: Feb 2004  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
It's good to know we're all on the same ship. I'd like to pursue the orthodoxy if I may, which is predicated on classical physics, common sense I feel as I stumble about, in the dark: real concepts like superposition are excluded?

If so, then God is not fully the Father etc: substance is not fully person.

On what basis do we exclude realities that defy common sense? In discussing phenomena that ...

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116

 - Posted      Profile for Mudfrog   Email Mudfrog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The only analogy that works well for me is web pagea Three Wick Candle

Of one substance, the wax and the wicks,
Three distinct persons but equal (in substance and length.
Three flames that are identical in every respect but, when viewed without looking at the candle itself into a darkened room, produce one indivisible light.

[ 01. June 2017, 12:04: Message edited by: Mudfrog ]

--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116

 - Posted      Profile for Mudfrog   Email Mudfrog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Tried three times with the link to the page with the candle on it. Hopefully you can see it.

--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116

 - Posted      Profile for Mudfrog   Email Mudfrog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Tried three times with the link to the page with the candle on it. Hopefully you can see it.

--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Freddy
Shipmate
# 365

 - Posted      Profile for Freddy   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I think that the best analogy is what is written in the Athanasian Creed:
quote:
For as the reasonable soul and flesh is one man; so God and Man is one Christ.
More than an analogy, really.

As the soul, mind and body are one person, so the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are one God - distinct, but not separate.

--------------------
"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg

Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
quetzalcoatl
Shipmate
# 16740

 - Posted      Profile for quetzalcoatl   Email quetzalcoatl   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Although that analogy - soul/mind/body - is itself rather opaque. First you have to reify a soul and a mind, in order to say that they are unified with the body. Of course, you can guess.

--------------------
I can't talk to you today; I talked to two people yesterday.

Posts: 9878 | From: UK | Registered: Oct 2011  |  IP: Logged
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

 - Posted      Profile for Crœsos     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
The only analogy that works well for me is web pagea Three Wick Candle

Of one substance, the wax and the wicks,
Three distinct persons but equal (in substance and length.
Three flames that are identical in every respect but, when viewed without looking at the candle itself into a darkened room, produce one indivisible light.

Isn't that the heresy of tritheism? The idea that the Trinity are three separate gods of the same 'substance'?

This goes back to how you can't really say anything about the Trinity other than a rote recitation of the Athanasian creed without falling afoul of one heresy or another.

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Mudfrog
Shipmate
# 8116

 - Posted      Profile for Mudfrog   Email Mudfrog   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
The only analogy that works well for me is web pagea Three Wick Candle

Of one substance, the wax and the wicks,
Three distinct persons but equal (in substance and length.
Three flames that are identical in every respect but, when viewed without looking at the candle itself into a darkened room, produce one indivisible light.

Isn't that the heresy of tritheism? The idea that the Trinity are three separate gods of the same 'substance'?

This goes back to how you can't really say anything about the Trinity other than a rote recitation of the Athanasian creed without falling afoul of one heresy or another.

No, because it's one candle not three.

--------------------
"The point of having an open mind, like having an open mouth, is to close it on something solid."
G.K. Chesterton

Posts: 8237 | From: North Yorkshire, UK | Registered: Jul 2004  |  IP: Logged
Crœsos
Shipmate
# 238

 - Posted      Profile for Crœsos     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Mudfrog:
quote:
Originally posted by Crœsos:
Isn't that the heresy of tritheism? The idea that the Trinity are three separate gods of the same 'substance'?

This goes back to how you can't really say anything about the Trinity other than a rote recitation of the Athanasian creed without falling afoul of one heresy or another.

No, because it's one candle not three.
Monarchianism.

[ 01. June 2017, 17:22: Message edited by: Crœsos ]

--------------------
Humani nil a me alienum puto

Posts: 10706 | From: Sardis, Lydia | Registered: May 2001  |  IP: Logged
Freddy
Shipmate
# 365

 - Posted      Profile for Freddy   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Although that analogy - soul/mind/body - is itself rather opaque. First you have to reify a soul and a mind, in order to say that they are unified with the body. Of course, you can guess.

Another version of the same analogy is mind/body/function. All pretty concrete.

--------------------
"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg

Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
W Hyatt
Shipmate
# 14250

 - Posted      Profile for W Hyatt   Email W Hyatt   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
quote:
Originally posted by quetzalcoatl:
Although that analogy - soul/mind/body - is itself rather opaque. First you have to reify a soul and a mind, in order to say that they are unified with the body. Of course, you can guess.

Another version of the same analogy is mind/body/function. All pretty concrete.
Also substance/form/function, purpose/means/effect, emotion/thought/action, love/faith/works, etc. Many different expressions of the same analogy.

--------------------
A new church and a new earth, with Spiritual Insights for Everyday Life.

Posts: 1565 | From: U.S.A. | Registered: Nov 2008  |  IP: Logged
Martin60
Shipmate
# 368

 - Posted      Profile for Martin60   Email Martin60   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
I will not stray from Athanasius' logic except in his illogical damnationism of course, of which, in my pitiful ignorance, I was unaware and means that the similarly otherwise blessed Cappadocian Fathers also ... assumed.

So, from the Athanasian Creed

19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God (substance) and Lord (substance);

I infer the answer to my question about the non-commutativity of

The Father Person is fully God substance
The Son Person is fully God substance
The Spirit Person is fully God substance

God substance is fully Father Person
God substance is fully Son Person
God substance is fully Holy Spirit Person

In other words

God substance is not fully Father Person
God substance is not fully Son Person
God substance is not fully Holy Spirit Person

(Isn't it just GREAT that Greek hypo-stasis transliterates to Latin sub-stantia! That false identity blurs person and substance so we end up with tritheism. Full on Islamic shirk.)

I just want the premises and the logic.

--------------------
Love wins

Posts: 17586 | From: Never Dobunni after all. Corieltauvi after all. Just moved to the capital. | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Philip Charles

Ship's cutler
# 618

 - Posted      Profile for Philip Charles   Author's homepage   Email Philip Charles   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
The trouble with the traditional analogies is that they are static. After all dynamics (as in mechanics) is a quite recent.
I see the persons of the trinity in a dance where no move is ever repeated. The creation and Christ event are moves in this dance. Adjust the analogy to remove modelism, tritheism etc.

--------------------
There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Posts: 89 | From: Dunedin, NZ | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Baptist Trainfan
Shipmate
# 15128

 - Posted      Profile for Baptist Trainfan   Email Baptist Trainfan   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
Problem with the dance motif - which I like - is that you can't have a dance without discrete dancers, however much the final "product" transcends the individuals concerned.
Posts: 9750 | From: The other side of the Severn | Registered: Sep 2009  |  IP: Logged
Philip Charles

Ship's cutler
# 618

 - Posted      Profile for Philip Charles   Author's homepage   Email Philip Charles   Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
you can't have a dance without discrete dancers
Agreed, so some adjustment is needed like bringing in another analogy to sit alongside it, like (horror) a lava lamp. The advantages of this model is that it puts an emphasis on the relationships between the persons and that the Godhead is doing something.

--------------------
There are 10 kinds of people. Those who understand binary and those who don't.

Posts: 89 | From: Dunedin, NZ | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Freddy
Shipmate
# 365

 - Posted      Profile for Freddy   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by W Hyatt:
quote:
Originally posted by Freddy:
Another version of the same analogy is mind/body/function. All pretty concrete.

Also substance/form/function, purpose/means/effect, emotion/thought/action, love/faith/works, etc. Many different expressions of the same analogy.
Put this into Martin’s formula:
quote:
Originally posted by Martin60:
The Father Person is fully God substance
The Son Person is fully God substance
The Spirit Person is fully God substance

You get:
quote:
The Father Person is fully God substance/mind/purpose/emotion/love
The Son Person is fully God form/body/means/thought/faith
The Spirit Person is fully God function/effect/action/works

Distinct but not separate. Dynamic not static.

--------------------
"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg

Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged
Freddy
Shipmate
# 365

 - Posted      Profile for Freddy   Author's homepage     Send new private message       Edit/delete post   Reply with quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Paul.:
Supposedly this is very good. I say "supposedly" based on the reactions of some of the people I follow. Personally I found it more annoying than anything.

Although I did sort of like:

quote:
Have you come up with a really helpful analogy? Well done! Now please don't tell anyone about it, ever

So funny. Don't forget that the point is to combat heresy:
quote:
How to combat trinitarian heresy, #4: Have you come up with a really helpful analogy? Well done! Now please don't tell anyone about it, ever
Analogies clearly beget heresies. [Paranoid]

--------------------
"Consequently nothing is of greater importance to a person than knowing what the truth is." Swedenborg

Posts: 12845 | From: Bryn Athyn | Registered: Jun 2001  |  IP: Logged


 
Post new thread  Post a reply Close thread   Feature thread   Move thread   Delete thread Next oldest thread   Next newest thread
 - Printer-friendly view
Go to:

Contact us | Ship of Fools | Privacy statement

© Ship of Fools 2016

Powered by Infopop Corporation
UBB.classicTM 6.5.0

 
follow ship of fools on twitter
buy your ship of fools postcards
sip of fools mugs from your favourite nautical website
 
 
  ship of fools