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» Ship of Fools   » Community discussion   » Purgatory   » No need to worry about climate change. The people in charge say God's in control (Page 1)

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Source: (consider it) Thread: No need to worry about climate change. The people in charge say God's in control
George Spigot

Outcast
# 253

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GOP Congressman: God Will ‘Take Care Of’ Climate Change If It Exists

Senate Environment Committee Chairman: God, Not Man, Drives Earth's Climate Patterns

‘Only God controls the weather’, Danny Healy-Rae tells climate change debate

I do wish people with power over the rest of us would keep their religious beliefs to themselves and either educate themselves or seek the advice of experts when making policy.

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C.S. Lewis's Head is just a tool for the Devil. (And you can quote me on that.) ~
Philip Purser Hallard
http://www.thoughtplay.com/infinitarian/gbsfatb.html

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
GOP Congressman: God Will ‘Take Care Of’ Climate Change If It Exists

Said congressman never read Genesis or heard of the story of Noah, I guess.

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

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Hedgehog

Ship's Shortstop
# 14125

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quote:
Originally posted by Amanda B. Reckondwythe:
quote:
Originally posted by George Spigot:
GOP Congressman: God Will ‘Take Care Of’ Climate Change If It Exists

Said congressman never read Genesis or heard of the story of Noah, I guess.
Or read Pope Francis' Encyclical on the subject.

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"We must regain the conviction that we need one another, that we have a shared responsibility for others and the world, and that being good and decent are worth it."--Pope Francis, Laudato Si'

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
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I'm worried about climate change. But no where near as worried as I am about some of the people in charge.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
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Isn't there a Yiddish curse consigning all these idiots to retirement in Florida, just as climate change makes Florida uninhabitable?

[Devil]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Doc Tor
Deepest Red
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Of course God's in control. And God says "Stop putting shit in the atmosphere or I'll fuck up your climate. Repent now, or repent later: your call."

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Improbable Botany

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georgiaboy
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quote:
Originally posted by Bishops Finger:
Isn't there a Yiddish curse consigning all these idiots to retirement in Florida, just as climate change makes Florida uninhabitable?

[Devil]

IJ

If there isn't, there should be! Maybe a Ship contest to confect one?
Probably not limited to Yiddish.

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You can't retire from a calling.

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Bishops Finger
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I'm sure I've seen one somewhere - maybe even on board the Ship?

[Help]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Schroedinger's cat

Ship's cool cat
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I don't think it is about people needing to keep their religious beliefs to themselves.

I think it is more about stupid and ridiculous ideas that your God will save you from your own stupidity. Or save us all - corporately - from our own stupidity.

TBH, I think he is screaming things more suited for a heavily bleeped late night C4 show.

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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It's not freaking religion. It's politicians co-opting religion because they see it as the best way to get their constituents to fall in line.

I rather suspect these folks would need new underwear if they ever heard from the God they keep invoking.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Amanda B. Reckondwythe

Dressed for Church
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quote:
Originally posted by Doc Tor:
And God says "Stop putting shit in the atmosphere or I'll fuck up your climate."

Wildfires, floods, tornadoes, hurricanes, earthquakes, avalanches . . . his arsenal is endless. Not that he's been sending any of these our way in recent months, now, has he, Mr. Congressman?

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"We're not in Wonderland anymore, Alice." – Charles Manson

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
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If God can sort out climate change, He can sort out cancer. But, he doesn't seem to do so on a regular basis. Or, sorting out poverty, famine and war.

He can't even seem to sort out stupid people getting elected to high office.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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The curse will unto the 100th and 1000th generation.

"Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.'" 1Samuel15-3

The question is, of course, who the Amalekites are today. Everyone? The poor of the world? Pacific islanders? Bangladeshis? Americans? Do we wait and watch? Do we get out our swords?

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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God helps those who help themselves.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Sioni Sais
Shipmate
# 5713

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quote:
Originally posted by simontoad:
God helps those who help themselves.

And those who accept help when offered from others. Who's thinking about the Christian struggling in the raging torrent who refuses help from a man with a lifebelt, then a boat and finally a helicopter, all because "God will save me".

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"He isn't Doctor Who, he's The Doctor"

(Paul Sinha, BBC)

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Barnabas62
Host
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A quote from Blish's best novel 'A Case of Conscience' about a head in the sand character. "Agronski wanted nothing to change and was now, unchangeably, nothing".

Plus the Sir Humphrey warning. "Courageous and farsighted policies nor only lose you the next general election but the one after that".

Future generations are going to curse this generation for our inability to produce courageous and farsighted policies to cope with both the climate change time bomb and the demographic time bomb. They do not deserve what is coming their way.

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Who is it that you seek? How then shall we live? How shall we sing the Lord's song in a strange land?

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Brenda Clough
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This is the link you're thinking of. It's the first curse but the rest are fun too!

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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Now wouldn't God perhaps expect us, made in his image, to use all our arts, devices and stratagems to do something about it ourselves? Didn't someone say that God has no hands here on Earth but ours?
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Bishops Finger
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Thanks, Brenda - they are all, indeed, delicious!

Another worrying thought is that those morons who assure us that God will save us from climate change probably think that he'll do the same regarding the fall-out if Baby Trumpling decides to nuke North Korea... [Ultra confused]

Given that they think Baby Trumpling is the Saviour Of The Universe, or whatever.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Brenda Clough
Shipmate
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There are those who maintain that Crooked Don is God's representative. (One must presume their God enjoys fumbling in women's crotches.) Another group argues that Li'l Donny is a judgment upon us all, like the Assyrians or plagues of locusts. In either case, we are clearly not expected to be able to do anything about it.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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Bishops Finger
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I rather incline to The Judgement Upon Us All version...

[Help]

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
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I would like to see Trump drop the agreement and face the consequences -

Which should be the other 197 countries slapping tariffs on the US as they would to pariah states. Climate change is likely to be more destructive than any war, so countries which choose to ignore it should suffer the strictest penalties imo.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
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Hit 'em in the pocket? That might just penetrate into what Trump supporters think of as their 'minds'.

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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Bannon is smiling.

They are going to make America small, petty, narrow-minded and no more a leader among nations than Tuvalu.

I agree with Boogie. (Though not necessarily applying sanctions on states which do not follow the White House and continue to work for the accord.)

[ 01. June 2017, 19:02: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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So he's done it, with cheers from the crowd. But he will negotiate to re-enter with terms fair to the US.

Just like May.

Can he do this, just like that? Instantly?

[ 01. June 2017, 19:39: Message edited by: Penny S ]

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
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From BBC news:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/0

I don't often swear, but....

Fucking miserable bastard. May he burn in a VERY hot Hell. Soon. Very soon.

Americans, can no-one do anything to prevent this unspeakable man from wrecking the world one way or another?

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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Penny S
Shipmate
# 14768

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The other leaders of the world have been laughing at us, and they won't be doing that now.

Really?

Though crying may be fitting.

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Pigwidgeon

Ship's Owl
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I really don't like using the word 'hate,' especially about people. But when I read this announcement, my immediate reaction was, 'I HATE Donald Trump!' He is absolutely, totally despicable. Yes, I knew that already, but he has removed all doubt whatsoever.

[Mad] [Mad] [Mad]

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Don't keep calm. Go change the world.

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Gramps49
Shipmate
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God helps those who help themselves--not Biblical Algemon Sidney actually wrote this phrase. Some classical Greek writings also imply this in tragedies of which only fragments now remain. In his Philoctetes (c.409 BC), Sophocles wrote, "No good e'er comes of leisure purposeless; And heaven ne’er helps the men who will not act." And in the Hippolytus (428BC) of Euripides appears the speech, "Try first thyself, and after call in God; For to the worker God himself lends aid."

I am reminded of a story in which a man decided to take over an overgrown lot next to his house. He pulled out all the weeds, put in new flower beds and even planted a community vegetable garden.

As he was doing this a parson would walk by every day and admire the progress being made.

Finally, the parson stopped and talked to the man. "Look's like you and God have done a great work here," The parson remarked.

The man looked up, and replied, "Well, God wasn't doing very well before I came along."

[ 01. June 2017, 20:09: Message edited by: Gramps49 ]

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Penny S
Shipmate
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The guy's smiles are so artificial.

And there's a global conspiracy against America, which Paris was enabling. (I assume he is not including the other nations of the continent in this.)

But he can't force American citizens and businesses not to follow climate saving practices, can he? Send the NRA round to enforce gas-guzzling cars and disconnecting the roof PV units? Force Exxon, who argued against him, to give up on renewables?

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mr cheesy
Shipmate
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The good part is that I think it is correct to say that other parties which agreed targets at the Paris climate agreement are now no longer required to continue with it with the US leaving.

The EU agreed set CO2 reductions by 2030, I'm pretty sure those were dependent on other parties agreeing to also reduce emissions via Paris. In one sense, it is hard to understand how or why others would continue with an agreement which wouldn't have the intended effect anyway. Sheesh, what a mess.

One has to wonder whether the Sustainable Development Goals are now under threat, given that so many of those are dependent on the Paris climate deal.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Enoch
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quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
... I rather suspect these folks would need new underwear if they ever heard from the God they keep invoking.

Lamb Chopped, that gets thereof these.
[Overused] [Overused] [Overused]


The argument 'God will take care of climate change if it exists' is spectacularly bad theology.

Presumably the people who argue that maintain that individuals must take moral responsibility for the consequences of their own actions, particularly those that are poor and probably black.

Can't they see that this applies just as much to the great ones, except that the consequences are so much greater.

I know that this is an unpopular view. Many people may accuse me likewise of spectacularly bad theology. But I don't think it's possible to make sense of any theology of human history unless one accepts that most of the time, God does not intervene to steer it. He does occasionally, when it's a question of the meta-narrative of salvation history, but most of the time, he doesn't.

It looks as though free will is even more important to God than we realise.

Free will means that if the big important people take bad decisions or do wickedness, their free will prevails. They do inflict suffering on millions of ordinary people. God does not intervene to parry the blows. They also bear personal responsibility for the consequences for the millions.

Free will, though also means that those who seek high office or are born to it, have an even greater responsibility than the rest of us to seek to do good. If you are important enough, your good actions can benefit many people even including those who come after one has gone.

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Brexit wrexit - Sir Graham Watson

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Bishops Finger
Shipmate
# 5430

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I wonder if President Egregious Fuckwit Bastard I ever contemplates his own mortality?

IJ

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The future is another country - they might do things differently there...

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rolyn
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Bush set the tone for America's attitude to pumping out pollutants a while back. He also played the God card over Iraq in 03 so it's a familiar pattern when it comes to ducking out of fuck ups. No change there.

At least it sounds as if China is coming to the table, but then the smell of politics is often greater than the smell of pollution.
Mind you, apart from the very poor Countries it is a case of those without sin casting the first stone over environmental protection.

Noticeably absent from our mainstream Parties' manifestos this time.

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Change is the only certainty of existence

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no prophet's flag is set so...

Proceed to see sea
# 15560

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quote:
Originally posted by Enoch:
The argument 'God will take care of climate change if it exists' is spectacularly bad theology.

Presumably the people who argue that maintain that individuals must take moral responsibility for the consequences of their own actions, particularly those that are poor and probably black.

Can't they see that this applies just as much to the great ones, except that the consequences are so much greater.

I know that this is an unpopular view. Many people may accuse me likewise of spectacularly bad theology. But I don't think it's possible to make sense of any theology of human history unless one accepts that most of the time, God does not intervene to steer it. He does occasionally, when it's a question of the meta-narrative of salvation history, but most of the time, he doesn't.

It looks as though free will is even more important to God than we realise.

Free will means that if the big important people take bad decisions or do wickedness, their free will prevails. They do inflict suffering on millions of ordinary people. God does not intervene to parry the blows. They also bear personal responsibility for the consequences for the millions.

Free will, though also means that those who seek high office or are born to it, have an even greater responsibility than the rest of us to seek to do good. If you are important enough, your good actions can benefit many people even including those who come after one has gone.

You state what I have come to understand over the past decade. It isn't as we might want to have it, but it seems to be true, from the experience of things, and seeking of confirmation beyond personal experience. It is both a magnificent opportunity and a terrifying possibility. It is things like climate change which have me understand more and more that human decisions necessarily involves theology, theodicy, ethics, philosophical contingency and the location of responsibility with us, not God, who, as it seems has decided to be a spectator for much of what we do.

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Maybe I should stop to consider that I'm not worthy of an epiphany and just take what life has to offer
(formerly was just "no prophet") \_(ツ)_/

Posts: 10501 | From: Treaty 6 territory in the nonexistant Province of Buffalo, Canada ↄ⃝' | Registered: Mar 2010  |  IP: Logged
Golden Key
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# 1468

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LC--

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I rather suspect these folks would need new underwear if they ever heard from the God they keep invoking.

The "people of the Book" God (even with all our doubts, hope, love, anger, and disbelief)? Or the one they've made up, but maybe don't believe in?

I'm thinking the last(?) Narnia book, with two Calormen soldiers who supposedly follow the god Tash, who was very nasty.

One had truly been looking for goodness, for Aslan (though not knowing it), and poured all his love into his worship. Aslan understood that, and said that the man's worship was really directed to him, and IIRC the man went to Aslan's country.

But there was another soldier, rather cold-hearted IIRC, who went through the motions of worshipping Tash. Someone said, "How, then, shall it be for him if he has called on a god in whom he does not believe, and finds him real?" And this soldier met Tash, up close and personal.

I hope anyone who's used Trump, given him fake devotion, and has read that Narnia book (or will come to read it soon) will keep that in mind.

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Lamb Chopped
Ship's kebab
# 5528

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I'm a bit confused. I am referring to people whom I have some reason to suspect are invoking the name of a God they do not actually believe in. If they did, they would have more sense (fear? respect? whatever) than to use his name to adorn criminal stupidity.

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Er, this is what I've been up to (book).
Oh, that you would rend the heavens and come down!

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Re the stated possibility that T might renegotiate and go back to the accord:

Reportedly, there are White House folks on *both* sides of the climate issue. (Gee, must be a fun place to work--not.) And Ivanka is for staying with the accord.

Trump has said she's the one who gets him to do good things. I wonder if the possibility of going back was at her request? Or to appease her?

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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LC--

quote:
Originally posted by Lamb Chopped:
I'm a bit confused. I am referring to people whom I have some reason to suspect are invoking the name of a God they do not actually believe in. If they did, they would have more sense (fear? respect? whatever) than to use his name to adorn criminal stupidity.

Sorry. Let me try again.

What I was trying to say is that they may be referring to the God we usually refer to here, and that would be one problem. If they met that God, and She expressed displeasure, they might indeed need new pants. The Creator of all things exists and She ain't happy--though She still loves them.

OTOH, they may have basically made their own God, with accretions of politics, greed, and wish fulfillment. With punishing the US with storms and terrorism for having LGBT folks, uppity women, Muslims, etc. If that God existed (similar to the IMHO worst of the OT God) and they met It, they might also need new pants, a cleaning crew, and lots of Lysol. If you make up something nasty, and it becomes real...
[Paranoid]

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

Posts: 17246 | From: Chilling out in an undisclosed, sincere pumpkin patch. | Registered: Oct 2001  |  IP: Logged
Ricardus
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# 8757

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Maybe these people remember the bit where Satan tells Jesus to throw himself off a high tower becase God will save him, and forgot which one is the bad guy in that story.

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Then the dog ran before, and coming as if he had brought the news, shewed his joy by his fawning and wagging his tail. -- Tobit 11:9 (Douai-Rheims)

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Golden Key
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# 1468

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Also kind of like Job's friends. "It's *your* fault. Repent. Trust God, and everything will be ok. Just be righteous."

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Blessed Gator, pray for us!
--"Oh bat bladders, do you have to bring common sense into this?"--Dragon, "Jane & the Dragon"
--"I'm not giving up--and neither should you." --SNL

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mr cheesy
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# 3330

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If Christianity has any meaning at all - and to be honest, I regularly think it is all gibberish - then the important thing must be about how the rich and powerful treat the poor and weak.

Unfortunately I don't think this is all on Trump. He's a symptom of a deeply spiritually bankrupt mentality amongst a powerful elite who think they can follow their own agenda and to hell with everyone else.

It says American jobs and economy matter - the fact that you're poor, or weak, or battling floods, or living with failed crops, or having to find ways to look after refugees etc don't matter.

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my new book: Biblical But Bollocks. Available in all good bookshops.

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Boogie

Boogie on down!
# 13538

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He'll soon become an irrelevance - renewable energy technologies are moving at an incredible pace, especially in the USA.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
He'll soon become an irrelevance - renewable energy technologies are moving at an incredible pace, especially in the USA.

Indeed, and a lot of the impetus is coming from States, and more local levels of government, and private industry. IIRC California currently generates about 30% of it's electricity by renewables, and is heading towards exceeding 50% by 2030. Las Vegas, that beacon (almost literally) to consumption of electricity has made substantial investments in renewables. Like everywhere else individuals and businesses, through either ethical choices or simply to save money, are progressively improving energy efficiency and investing in less polluting technologies - creating markets for efficient and clean technologies that US businesses have been among the leaders in supplying.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Ian Climacus

Liturgical Slattern
# 944

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quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
He'll soon become an irrelevance - renewable energy technologies are moving at an incredible pace, especially in the USA.

That's all well and good, but the damage he and his band of buffoons can do right now worries me as it might tip the scales to more extreme weather and temperature rises more than we expected. Or am I misinformed/too worried?

I haven't read much news on this latest announcement though from what colleagues tell me it does seem some states are promising to push ahead with their clean energy targets despite this. States' independence may prove very beneficial.

[edit: schpeling]

[ 02. June 2017, 08:48: Message edited by: Ian Climacus ]

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Alan Cresswell

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# 31

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quote:
Originally posted by Ian Climacus:
quote:
Originally posted by Boogie:
He'll soon become an irrelevance - renewable energy technologies are moving at an incredible pace, especially in the USA.

That's all well and good, but the damage he and his band of buffoons can do right now worries me as it might tip the scales to more extreme weather and temperature rises more than we expected. Or am I misinformed/too worried?
It's a worry, but it isn't the end of the world. Put simply, I don't think he has the power to wreck things that much. As you note, many States will act on their own anyway and simply ignore the Federal government. And, many individuals and businesses will do the same. Basically the economics alone is almost at the tipping point where it's cheaper to install new renewables capacity than new fossil fuel capacity, even without any government subsidies, even more so for a small demand (eg: a business or individual will save installing their own wind/solar compared to buying off the grid, if their property is suitable, over the mid-term) - we're not there yet, but it won't be long. Most States recognise that there is employment opportunities in renewables, and an economic benefit to them to invest in renewables (the same is, of course, true of the US as a whole ... it's just that Trump has bought into the fake news that it isn't).

Added to which, it will take time for the US to extracate itself from the international treaties (even if it doesn't get held up within the US legislature), so there's not going to be much of a change overnight. The only thing that could happen quickly is that the US stops making further payments to the fund to help developing nations (which, incidentally, Trump could have done without pulling out of the Paris accords completely), but the US has already contributed a third of what was asked for anyway and it won't change the global climate trends (it'll just mean more poor people in developing countries will die).

Meanwhile India and China are ahead of their targets for reducing carbon emissions.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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simontoad
Ship's Amphibian
# 18096

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yeah I think that's right about states in the USA. They are a mixed bunch though.

I think this move by Trump is clearly a backwards step and one that is damaging, especially to the United States. It is having the useful effect of highlighting that there is a large amount of consensus on the topic elsewhere in the world. Trump and those who think like him are in the minority and can be worked around.

I think Merkel might be busily working to make it crystal clear to President Trump that his leadership is optional.

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The opinions expressed above are transitory emotional responses and do not necessarily reflect the considered views of the author.

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Boogie

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# 13538

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Decent batteries to store renewable energy are rapidly on their way too. These will make a huge difference to small communities and businesses breaking their dependence on the grid.

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Garden. Room. Walk

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Alan Cresswell

Mad Scientist 先生
# 31

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Battery technology is also important for transport - which is rapidly becoming the next sector that will need large-scale de-carbonisation. Electric vehicles for more than a few applications require batteries able to supply enough power to run the vehicle at 70mph with decent acceleration, duration for at least 200 miles, and rapid recharge. We're almost there for cars, the recharge time being the big issue to be addressed. But, long-distance buses and trucks are a long way behind.

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Don't Brexit if you haven't a scooby how to fix it.

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Brenda Clough
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# 18061

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You have to understand the psychology of Crooked Don. For him it is all about the win. Almost the first thing that happened on his website was a banner, "Promise Kept". He had promised bluecollar voters to terminate the Paris Agreement.

That is all that is important. There is no there, there. He was able to notch up a check mark in the win column. That it does nothing, has no effect, will give not a single coal miner a job, and is monumentally stupid? Means nothing to him. There is no space in his mind for that.

It is easy for our enemies now, to get him to do stuff. All you have to do is phrase the desired action as a 'win' for him and he bites on the lure. I even saw this advice in a foreign diplomat's advice to his team.

We are so toast.

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Science fiction and fantasy writer

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